-The Roster
I am not going down the typical rabbit hole of the quality of our roster, rather not broach the worthiness of any of the pending FA….but this past weekend went a long way to building a foundation of the roster for the near future……
Schoen took a risk by committing to the roster bonus for Bradberry, not glaring but 1st mistake. Bradberry outright release also leans me to believe that 2023 is the start and anything they get from 2022 is a bonus.
We know the Giants have a couple of big decisions next year with Daniel Jones, Saquon Barkley, Blake Martinez, Shepard and several others to lesser degree Love, Xmen, Slayton, Gates, beyond all the 1 year deals that were recently done and I assume the influx of 1 year deals will continue to be a factor in the NFL.
I doubt Xmen makes it through cuts this year. The #s definitely favor Love staying one more year. Slayton might be a cap issue and I personally hope Gates recovers and remains a Giants, but also unlikely. Shepard and Blake are also likely gone next year as both probably will be replaced by younger drafted players.
Which leaves Barkley and Jones. I do not care to discuss the pros and cons at this time….way too much emotion…
RB is certainly devalued so any hope Barkley stays, will come with a very team friendly deal which again is unlikely.
The QB is the most vital position on the team and this could go many ways.
The good news...everyone else will be signed for at least 2 years if not more……That flips this roster from unstable to a nice foundation of core players.
If these coaches can actually develop players!....they added a bunch of intriguing talent. It will be one of the youngest rosters in the NFL.
The Trenches were a priority and seems to heading in the right direction which I think is key.
-The Cap
The dollars in FA have absolutely gone crazy…somewhat expected knowing the direction of the cap
I know the Giants have been squeezing pennies this year, but I actually kind of prefer this approach in FA.
Too much buyer remorse in FA with big tickets, if you ask me. I also hate the trend of trading draft picks for big names AND signing them to big bucks…unless its the last piece to a Super Bowl championship, it makes little sense to me.
I am no cap expert but the Giants should be out of the dyer position they find them selves this year.
but I sure hope they do not go shopping on Rodeo Dr ...please keep shopping at Marshalls.
QB could be the biggest decision impacting the cap.
It is nice that The Giants won’t be limited in what direction they can go….If a proven commodity does becomes available?
They have Taylor signed if they go QB in the draft to bridge any rookie and I won’t even bring up the other option….don’t need anyone triggered.
-The Future of the Giants and the draft
We are starting to see some key hires, replacing the pro and college scouting guys.
I know very little about who are hot names…..curious to see if we do what we did with the coaches and go after organization that historically do well in the draft…. Like The Ravens. They already grab a key guy from the Eagles and the Buffalo connection would be obvious.
Hopefully next year, the roster will have much fewer holes but it seems obvious to me…the Draft is more important than ever.
Teams should draft WRs and Corners every year. Hitting big on the 1st day, future starters on the 2nd day and hidden gems on the 3rd day. I think the guys we have understand the landscape and the big picture better than the recent past, which is comforting.
It also seems that the GM and Coach are connected, so hopefully the coaching carousel has settle down...it all starts with coaching stability.
I do see the light at the end of the tunnel but patience will be needed.
On March 17th 2M of his 2022 salary became guaranteed. But according to Jason Fitzgerald at OTC, Bradberry has sufficient offset language in his agreement, such that the Giants will be credited that cap money if Bradberry signs with another team.
Thanks for clarifying
The Giants will need ~12.5M to sign their rookies, and ~1.6 to add 52/53rd player to their opening day cap.
At the maximum end (assuming they lose Logan Ryan's grievance), 3M is not sufficient money to operate -- so be on the lookout for more cuts.
I have no issue with the Bradberry piece as the Giants hoped to get a return. Regardless, a post June 1st cut benefits them the most $ wise. At no point was Bradberry coming back long term.
As far as players to go still:
Xman, Martin, Harris, Slayton and Gates are all prime candidates. You could add Cam Brown Coughing to that mix as well.
BB56 said it well in another post, regardless of opinion Jones has this year to show what he can do and if he stays healthy (huge if) the Giants may be a tad better off this year than people think and then we have a nice dilemma next off season. If he fails or is injured, then we go get a new QB.
Barkley isn't coming back for a number of reasons but one most prominent - he will want more $ than this new regime will want to pay a RB (and shouldn't pay it by the way). Plus, Barkley needs to prove he can stay healthy and that his play more matches 2018 than 2021. I don't think he will show that pure play and health is still a major question mark for him. Our best bet there is he stays healthy for 5-7 weeks and plays well enough for us to trade him.
I think this team will be better than expected for two reasons:
Protecting our QB better and Attacking the opposing QB much better.. 7 win season is more than possible..
The Giants will need ~12.5M to sign their rookies, and ~1.6 to add 52/53rd player to their opening day cap.
At the maximum end (assuming they lose Logan Ryan's grievance), 3M is not sufficient money to operate -- so be on the lookout for more cuts.
One of the cuts should be Martinez. He's a + $7.5M cap savings in 2022.
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Also, when today's cut of Bradberrry is processed, the Giants will have between 15.6 - 17M in cap space (depending if they designate him a post-June 1 cut).
The Giants will need ~12.5M to sign their rookies, and ~1.6 to add 52/53rd player to their opening day cap.
At the maximum end (assuming they lose Logan Ryan's grievance), 3M is not sufficient money to operate -- so be on the lookout for more cuts.
One of the cuts should be Martinez. He's a + $7.5M cap savings in 2022.
Sorry, should be $3.5M.
Patience is really only about getting through enough drafts to obtain enough plus players...
If Daniel Jones miraculously proves to be a stud in 2022, the rebuilding plan won't be as onerous as it seems.
But if the Giants let him walk in free agency next year because he failed again, then we're looking at probably a 3-year timeframe before the Giants become serious playoff contenders.
It's too bad that 2022 ended up being a terrible year for QBs, but it is what it is.
If one of the QBs taking in the 3rd round and beyond this year end up being very good players, we may regret passing on them.
I view Watson potentially higher but his deal is nuts.
Viking Cousin has done what exactly to merit his deal. Dak has won the NFC East....BFD.
I like Daniel...but I do not see what he can do to merit a going rate deal.
To be honest, I rather live with rotating rookie QB deals or prove it deals.
My son loves Barkley and RB deals seem far more reasonable...he can be a top 5 talent...so it's not that black and white for me....open to either.
If Daniel Jones miraculously proves to be a stud in 2022, the rebuilding plan won't be as onerous as it seems.
But if the Giants let him walk in free agency next year because he failed again, then we're looking at probably a 3-year timeframe before the Giants become serious playoff contenders.
It's too bad that 2022 ended up being a terrible year for QBs, but it is what it is.
If one of the QBs taking in the 3rd round and beyond this year end up being very good players, we may regret passing on them.
They tore down a lot of the roster this offseason. I'd expect them to cut/trade all but a handful (5 or 6, tops) of the remainder of the Gettleman players.
That's probably when the meter shifts from "teardown" to "rebuild".
There are a number of teams with multiple 1st-round picks already next year, including the Eagles. So the Eagles could trade both their 1st round picks and their 2024 1st round pick to move up to get one of the top QBs. Just one example.
We supposedly have an "easy" schedule so it's not out of the realm of possibility that we won't be picking until around 10 or so. We may be left with the 4th best QB on the board. Can that guy take the Giants to the playoffs as a rookie or in his second year? Possible, but I wouldn't be on it.
The good news is that we have two offensive coaches who know how to develop young quarterbacks... so we have that gong for us. (This is also true for Jones in his final shot here).
If one of the QBs taking in the 3rd round and beyond this year end up being very good players, we may regret passing on them.
yeah, but no one thought they'd become very good players, or they wouldn't have lasted to the 3rd round and beyond. So you can't really fault Schoen if the unexpected happens.
The QB I'd keep an eye on is Levis from Kentucky.
If Daniel Jones miraculously proves to be a stud in 2022, the rebuilding plan won't be as onerous as it seems.
But if the Giants let him walk in free agency next year because he failed again, then we're looking at probably a 3-year timeframe before the Giants become serious playoff contenders.
It's too bad that 2022 ended up being a terrible year for QBs, but it is what it is.
If one of the QBs taking in the 3rd round and beyond this year end up being very good players, we may regret passing on them.
If Jones has a very good year, it really doesn't solve anything - IMV. Because it could just as easily be an outlier rather than a trend pointing to bigger and better things. Would you really trust one good year as a sign of things to come? Once upon a time, Jones had a decent rookie campaign, but since then his performance has slipped. That's why we needed Jones to get it in his first three years to avoid the mess and uncertainty we're in now with him.
Time will tell if 2022 was a terrible year for QBs. I was shocked only one - Pickett - went in the first two rounds. It was a resounding rebuke by the league that they had little confidence in this crop,
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In comment 15703647 christian said:
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Also, when today's cut of Bradberrry is processed, the Giants will have between 15.6 - 17M in cap space (depending if they designate him a post-June 1 cut).
The Giants will need ~12.5M to sign their rookies, and ~1.6 to add 52/53rd player to their opening day cap.
At the maximum end (assuming they lose Logan Ryan's grievance), 3M is not sufficient money to operate -- so be on the lookout for more cuts.
One of the cuts should be Martinez. He's a + $7.5M cap savings in 2022.
Sorry, should be $3.5M.
I believe you are incorrect on both. The cap savings is about $150k, its not worth cutting him. they already redid his contract to keep him, cutting him after all that would be a dumb move and an overall loss of cap space because they guaranteed his salary
If Daniel Jones miraculously proves to be a stud in 2022, the rebuilding plan won't be as onerous as it seems.
But if the Giants let him walk in free agency next year because he failed again, then we're looking at probably a 3-year timeframe before the Giants become serious playoff contenders.
It's too bad that 2022 ended up being a terrible year for QBs, but it is what it is.
If one of the QBs taking in the 3rd round and beyond this year end up being very good players, we may regret passing on them.
We drafted Davis Webb in the 3rd round, how did that turn out?
Oh wait ... we actually signed him to a 2nd contract. Never mind, carry on.
Sorry, should be $3.5M.
I believe you are incorrect on both. The cap savings is about $150k, its not worth cutting him. they already redid his contract to keep him, cutting him after all that would be a dumb move and an overall loss of cap space because they guaranteed his salary
This is what Spotrac has:
PRE-6/1 RELEASE
2022 Dead Cap: $4,000,000
2022 Cap Savings: $3,676,470
Maybe it doesn't account for the re-worked contract. But I do see on OTC the $176K savings...
SFGFNC - I agree that DJ is being handed the pole position, so to speak. But if the preseason games show a marked difference between DJ and TT, with TT clearly fitting the system better, I think Daboll will have the authority to make the change. Do I have a crystal ball in that regard? No.
Or DJ may play well. But much as I like the guy, I put the odds of that under 50-50. I think the Daboll-Kafka O is going to require quick processing and it's fair to say that hasn't been DJ's strong suit so far.
Cool! Thanks for the heads-up. We will see....
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Perhaps, but if we build up the team on both sides, it isn't inconceivable a rookie QB could step in & lead us to the postseason. That's what happened with Wilson in Seattle. I'm not saying it is likely, but it's within the realm of possibility. That's probably more of a possibility than Jones looking like a stud this fall.
There are a number of teams with multiple 1st-round picks already next year, including the Eagles. So the Eagles could trade both their 1st round picks and their 2024 1st round pick to move up to get one of the top QBs. Just one example.
We supposedly have an "easy" schedule so it's not out of the realm of possibility that we won't be picking until around 10 or so. We may be left with the 4th best QB on the board. Can that guy take the Giants to the playoffs as a rookie or in his second year? Possible, but I wouldn't be on it.
The good news is that we have two offensive coaches who know how to develop young quarterbacks... so we have that gong for us. (This is also true for Jones in his final shot here).
When he was drafted, Dan Marino was the 6th quarterback taken.
The path back is always pretty simple to me. When the Giants compete favorably in the box (OL/front 7) they play meaningful games in December with good coaching. I am hoping they come out of this year with a very solid foundation here. If BD shows himself to have upper tier HC ability and that foundation is set we will be in good shape even with less than optimal QB play. If they find a upper tier QB (with a couple playmakers) then maybe we see some great Giant seasons.
Slaytons $2.5mm is probably one of the few options we even have - and the least painful.
For me the most important rebuild is in the front office right now. Schoen and Daboll appear to be excellent hires by Mara and Tisch. Daboll has put together a very good coaching staff.Schoen is now focusing on revamping the scouting department which is such an important part of our entire rebuilding process.Way overdue imv.
Now if the Mara's will just stay out of the way....
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Perhaps, but if we build up the team on both sides, it isn't inconceivable a rookie QB could step in & lead us to the postseason. That's what happened with Wilson in Seattle. I'm not saying it is likely, but it's within the realm of possibility. That's probably more of a possibility than Jones looking like a stud this fall.
There are a number of teams with multiple 1st-round picks already next year, including the Eagles. So the Eagles could trade both their 1st round picks and their 2024 1st round pick to move up to get one of the top QBs. Just one example.
We supposedly have an "easy" schedule so it's not out of the realm of possibility that we won't be picking until around 10 or so. We may be left with the 4th best QB on the board. Can that guy take the Giants to the playoffs as a rookie or in his second year? Possible, but I wouldn't be on it.
The good news is that we have two offensive coaches who know how to develop young quarterbacks... so we have that gong for us. (This is also true for Jones in his final shot here).
Mac Jones was the 5th QB taken.
Herbert was the 3rd QB taken.
Josh Allen was the 3rd.
Lamar was the 5th.
We might be able to get a QB at 10.
I am so down on him right now based on what he's done and I don't want to be right about it
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issue is this:
If Daniel Jones miraculously proves to be a stud in 2022, the rebuilding plan won't be as onerous as it seems.
But if the Giants let him walk in free agency next year because he failed again, then we're looking at probably a 3-year timeframe before the Giants become serious playoff contenders.
It's too bad that 2022 ended up being a terrible year for QBs, but it is what it is.
If one of the QBs taking in the 3rd round and beyond this year end up being very good players, we may regret passing on them.
If Jones has a very good year, it really doesn't solve anything - IMV. Because it could just as easily be an outlier rather than a trend pointing to bigger and better things. Would you really trust one good year as a sign of things to come? Once upon a time, Jones had a decent rookie campaign, but since then his performance has slipped. That's why we needed Jones to get it in his first three years to avoid the mess and uncertainty we're in now with him.
Time will tell if 2022 was a terrible year for QBs. I was shocked only one - Pickett - went in the first two rounds. It was a resounding rebuke by the league that they had little confidence in this crop,
So let me get this straight, Jones has a very good year (your words) and now that's a problem? That's the best kind of problem to have! It means that he has proper coaching and talent around him, why would that be a fluke? You just want him to fail then.
They need to get in the same page and lead this offense if they want to stay. And they cant get away with a nice year that should progress forward.
This is it accend to where your going to accend and be judged.
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In comment 15703683 Eric from BBI said:
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issue is this:
If Daniel Jones miraculously proves to be a stud in 2022, the rebuilding plan won't be as onerous as it seems.
But if the Giants let him walk in free agency next year because he failed again, then we're looking at probably a 3-year timeframe before the Giants become serious playoff contenders.
It's too bad that 2022 ended up being a terrible year for QBs, but it is what it is.
If one of the QBs taking in the 3rd round and beyond this year end up being very good players, we may regret passing on them.
If Jones has a very good year, it really doesn't solve anything - IMV. Because it could just as easily be an outlier rather than a trend pointing to bigger and better things. Would you really trust one good year as a sign of things to come? Once upon a time, Jones had a decent rookie campaign, but since then his performance has slipped. That's why we needed Jones to get it in his first three years to avoid the mess and uncertainty we're in now with him.
Time will tell if 2022 was a terrible year for QBs. I was shocked only one - Pickett - went in the first two rounds. It was a resounding rebuke by the league that they had little confidence in this crop,
So let me get this straight, Jones has a very good year (your words) and now that's a problem? That's the best kind of problem to have! It means that he has proper coaching and talent around him, why would that be a fluke? You just want him to fail then.
Single-seasons can always be flukes. This isn't limited to Daniel jones. It's the same as the Leonard Williams situation. He had one spectacular, out of character year out of his 5 professional seasons. It is perfectly logical not to assume the standout year isn't the normal. Bradberry had one spectacular, all pro season in 2020. It was unlike the rest of his career. These things happen.
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In comment 15703710 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15703683 Eric from BBI said:
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issue is this:
If Daniel Jones miraculously proves to be a stud in 2022, the rebuilding plan won't be as onerous as it seems.
But if the Giants let him walk in free agency next year because he failed again, then we're looking at probably a 3-year timeframe before the Giants become serious playoff contenders.
It's too bad that 2022 ended up being a terrible year for QBs, but it is what it is.
If one of the QBs taking in the 3rd round and beyond this year end up being very good players, we may regret passing on them.
If Jones has a very good year, it really doesn't solve anything - IMV. Because it could just as easily be an outlier rather than a trend pointing to bigger and better things. Would you really trust one good year as a sign of things to come? Once upon a time, Jones had a decent rookie campaign, but since then his performance has slipped. That's why we needed Jones to get it in his first three years to avoid the mess and uncertainty we're in now with him.
Time will tell if 2022 was a terrible year for QBs. I was shocked only one - Pickett - went in the first two rounds. It was a resounding rebuke by the league that they had little confidence in this crop,
So let me get this straight, Jones has a very good year (your words) and now that's a problem? That's the best kind of problem to have! It means that he has proper coaching and talent around him, why would that be a fluke? You just want him to fail then.
Single-seasons can always be flukes. This isn't limited to Daniel jones. It's the same as the Leonard Williams situation. He had one spectacular, out of character year out of his 5 professional seasons. It is perfectly logical not to assume the standout year isn't the normal. Bradberry had one spectacular, all pro season in 2020. It was unlike the rest of his career. These things happen.
Or you get honors when you shouldn't (like Evan Engram).