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Giants Searching for Answers to Chronic Injury Problem

BSIMatt : 5/10/2022 4:12 pm
This is from April 4th, not sure if it’s been shared previously.

Quote:


How bad has the New York Giants injury situation been over the last five seasons?
If there was a way to exchange ten injuries for an extra win, the Giants would have the best won-loss record in the league over that period.
In other words, it’s been really bad. According to the website ManGamesLost, which tracks games lost due to injury and illness, the Giants have finished in the top-10 league-wide every year since 2017, averaging 282 man-games lost.


Giants Searching for Answers to Chronic Injury Problem - ( New Window )
it's even worse than that this is from the same company back to 2009  
Eric on Li : 5/10/2022 4:17 pm : link
someone made a deal with the devil for the 2 super bowls and now we are all living with it.



and to pre-empt the typical blaming of the surface i can't remember which but i think the 2 different surfaces the nyg home field has been is the same as ATL and the other MIN (the 2 least injured teams). and on the other end I think Jax and BAL are both grass. and obviously the jets play in the same stadium and yet have lost 1/3 the man games.
They can start by not signing injury prone players  
Rudy5757 : 5/10/2022 4:19 pm : link
and drafting injury prone players.

Rudolph and Golladay last year

Drafting Sam Beal
Contrast it with the Jets.  
Optimus-NY : 5/10/2022 4:19 pm : link
The Jets share the same field, but look where they are (somewhere in the middle of the pack) and look where the Giants are (dead last).
Coach is on Daboll  
GiantSteps : 5/10/2022 4:20 pm : link
and if he and the staff can figure out how to keep NYG healthier, that would be just turfic.
It's been absolutely ridiculous.  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/10/2022 4:24 pm : link
No way around it.
It's the Bengals and Vikings who have the same surface as us-  
Del Shofner : 5/10/2022 4:31 pm : link
Here is a full breakdown of the playing surface for each NFL stadium:

Arizona Cardinals: State Farm Stadium, Bermuda grass

Atlanta Falcons: Mercedes-Benz Superdome, FieldTurf CORE

Baltimore Ravens: M&T Bank Stadium, Bermuda grass

Buffalo Bills: Highmark Stadium, A-Turf Titan

Carolina Panthers: Bank of America Stadium, FieldTurf

Chicago Bears: Soldier Field, Kentucky bluegrass

Cincinnati Bengals: Paul Brown Stadium, UBU Speed Series S5-M Synthetic Turf

Cleveland Browns: FirstEnergy Stadium, Kentucky bluegrass

Dallas Cowboys: AT&T Stadium, Hellas Matrix Turf

Denver Broncos: Empower Field at Mile High, Kentucky bluegrass

Detroit Lions: Ford Field, FieldTurf Classic HD

Green Bay Packers: Lambeau Field, Desso GrassMaster

Houston Texans: NRG Stadium, Hellas Matrix Turf

Indianapolis Colts: Lucas Oil Stadium, Shaw Sports Momentum Pro

Jacksonville Jaguars: TIAA Bank Field, Bermuda grass

Kansas City Chiefs: GEHA Field at Arrowhead Stadium, Bermuda grass

Las Vegas Raiders: Allegiant Stadium, Bermuda grass

Los Angeles Chargers: SoFi Stadium, Hellas Matrix Turf

Los Angeles Rams: SoFi Stadium, Hellas Matrix Turf

Miami Dolphins: Hard Rock Stadium, Bermuda grass

Minnesota Vikings: U.S. Bank Stadium, UBU Speed Series S5-M (turf)

New England Patriots: Gillette Stadium, FieldTurf CORE

New Orleans Saints: Caesar's Superdome, FieldTurf Revolution 360

New York Giants: MetLife Stadium, UBU Sports Speed Series S5-M

New York Jets: MetLife Stadium, UBU Sports Speed Series S5-M

Philadelphia Eagles: Lincoln Financial Field, Desso GrassMaster

Pittsburgh Steelers: Heinz Field, Kentucky bluegrass

San Francisco 49ers: Levi's Stadium, Bermuda grass and Perennial Ryegrass mixture

Seattle Seahawks: CenturyLink Field, FieldTurf Revolution 360

Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Raymond James Stadium, Bermuda grass

Tennessee Titans: Nissan Stadium, Bermuda grass

Washington Football Team: FedExField, Bermuda grass

RE: Contrast it with the Jets.  
solarmike : 5/10/2022 4:31 pm : link
In comment 15704588 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
The Jets share the same field, but look where they are (somewhere in the middle of the pack) and look where the Giants are (dead last).


Interesting to compare them...
I have a different take  
Thegratefulhead : 5/10/2022 4:38 pm : link
We are 0-2 every fucking year. 12% of those teams don't reach the playoffs. We have sucked so badly, our seasons are over so quick, that players make business decisions and say they can't go, when if the team were in the hunt, they might not miss a snap. Why put your career on the line for a clown show?
Play more physical on both sides of the ball  
Jimmy Googs : 5/10/2022 4:38 pm : link
and start giving the hits versus getting pushed around...
Del - the surfaces have changed though in that time interval  
Eric on Li : 5/10/2022 4:39 pm : link
Vikings changed stadiums and turfs, the Giants have changed turf at least once or twice. Atlanta I believe changed turf in their new stadium. So some of it is apples/oranges over the time interval.

but giants/jets have been on the same surfaces every year.

also anecdotally everyone usually thinks grass is better but Cruz and Barkley both tore their knees on grass on the road. Nicks hurt himself originally in an OTA i believe on a grass practice field. just a wasted decade in every sense.
errr  
Thegratefulhead : 5/10/2022 4:39 pm : link
you know what I did.
Here  
Professor Falken : 5/10/2022 4:44 pm : link
is Buffalo's training facility. I don't know how the Giants facility compares, but you'd think that Schoen and Daboll know what changes to make if needed.
Buffalo - ( New Window )
Atlanta and Minnesota  
Joey in VA : 5/10/2022 4:45 pm : link
Have turf but it's indoors. Weather seems to be a factor with turf based on those results.
I think  
Professor Falken : 5/10/2022 4:49 pm : link
you also have to factor in the long term wear and tear that comes from practicing and playing on turf.
Barnes is a lifer so  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/10/2022 4:55 pm : link
...
Ronnie Barnes is still there  
RCPhoenix : 5/10/2022 4:55 pm : link
I know everyone says how great he is, but he's been there during this entire time.

Clearly something is wrong with how the Giants train and rehabilitate from injuries. I don't know if that's on the training staff, or the strength and conditioning staff. But enough is enough with this nonsense.

And it's not the turf, the Jets are obvious evidence of that.
Is it just bad luck that every good receiver we've had  
widmerseyebrow : 5/10/2022 5:18 pm : link
the last 10 years has had their career cut short or at least negatively impacted (Beckham)?
This should have been a top priority a long time ago  
USAF NYG Fan : 5/10/2022 5:26 pm : link
They always claim it's a top priority. Let's see if something is actually done about it. People rarely care about availability because it's not a sexy stat when I believe it's one of the most important stats in football.

It kills cadence, familiarity, rhythm, experience, game-planning, morale, teamwork, stability, salary, wins/losses, etc etc etc

It's so very very important and the Giants NEED to fix this. Please fix this.

Stop drafting and signing players with injury concerns. Buy low and sell high in 'high injury threat' positions. Pay those injury settlements and move on (players rarely recover from ACLs for example).

Just fix it please.
RE: I think  
BillT : 5/10/2022 5:31 pm : link
In comment 15704617 Professor Falken said:
Quote:
you also have to factor in the long term wear and tear that comes from practicing and playing on turf.

Pretty sure the Giants practice fields are grass.
When was their last year at Albany  
mako J : 5/10/2022 5:56 pm : link
For camp? Could that be a factor?
Just as Parcells would say  
Mattman : 5/10/2022 6:01 pm : link
"Stupid players do stupid things."

You can also say that injured players tend to get injured again.

Quote:
On average, 40 percent of players who played or would have played in Week 1 missed at least one game due to injury that season. Among those with no reported injuries in the prior two seasons, though, that figure is just 26 percent.



Understanding injuries in the nfl - ( New Window )
RE: Is it just bad luck that every good receiver we've had  
Mattman : 5/10/2022 6:10 pm : link
In comment 15704628 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
the last 10 years has had their career cut short or at least negatively impacted (Beckham)?


Players at more mobile positions have higher injury rates.
RE: I have a different take  
trueblueinpw : 5/10/2022 6:13 pm : link
In comment 15704605 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
We are 0-2 every fucking year. 12% of those teams don't reach the playoffs. We have sucked so badly, our seasons are over so quick, that players make business decisions and say they can't go, when if the team were in the hunt, they might not miss a snap. Why put your career on the line for a clown show?


I think this is absolutely a very big piece of the injury puzzle. Pro football players get hurt. All of them. Every season. But mostly, I think they play through pain when the big games come. And the Giants just don’t have any big games over the past decade.

I wonder too if having these inexperienced and unsuccessful coaches has encouraged more “business decisions”? Like, it’s got to be obvious to the guys in the locker room that McAd’oh and Rah Rah Joe were in over their heads. Who would gut it out for them or a guy like Murmur?

And then there’s been what Carl Banks calls scholarship players. I think Barkley would be one of these (though CB never said that). Not saying Barks hasn’t been legitimately injured, just that he’s soft in his play. But he’s the “face of the franchise” and a top draft pick. Seems to me like he makes a lot of business decisions. Idk…maybe that’s not fair, but he doesn’t appear to me to be encouraging a culture of toughness.

Attitude follows leadership. Maybe injuries do too?
Combine a bad training staff with an inept medical team and you are  
Jack Stroud : 5/10/2022 6:28 pm : link
doomed to injuries.
Amazing how if they start winning  
eli4life : 5/10/2022 6:41 pm : link
A lot of the little ones will go away
RE: RE: I have a different take  
BSIMatt : 5/10/2022 9:47 pm : link
In comment 15704676 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
In comment 15704605 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


We are 0-2 every fucking year. 12% of those teams don't reach the playoffs. We have sucked so badly, our seasons are over so quick, that players make business decisions and say they can't go, when if the team were in the hunt, they might not miss a snap. Why put your career on the line for a clown show?



I think this is absolutely a very big piece of the injury puzzle. Pro football players get hurt. All of them. Every season. But mostly, I think they play through pain when the big games come. And the Giants just don’t have any big games over the past decade.

I wonder too if having these inexperienced and unsuccessful coaches has encouraged more “business decisions”? Like, it’s got to be obvious to the guys in the locker room that McAd’oh and Rah Rah Joe were in over their heads. Who would gut it out for them or a guy like Murmur?

And then there’s been what Carl Banks calls scholarship players. I think Barkley would be one of these (though CB never said that). Not saying Barks hasn’t been legitimately injured, just that he’s soft in his play. But he’s the “face of the franchise” and a top draft pick. Seems to me like he makes a lot of business decisions. Idk…maybe that’s not fair, but he doesn’t appear to me to be encouraging a culture of toughness.

Attitude follows leadership. Maybe injuries do too?


If this an impact, I’d tend to think it’s minimal. Our injuries started in the summer, when guys couldn’t even practice together, and continued on from there..to say a player quits on their team after an 0-2 start seems pretty insulting to the integrity and character of the players as a whole.
RE: Play more physical on both sides of the ball  
Joe Beckwith : 5/10/2022 10:03 pm : link
In comment 15704606 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and start giving the hits versus getting pushed around...


+1.
Also, make your block, get out of the way. Get to the ball carrier, make the tackle, stay out of the wash of a cluster of players. Injuries usually happen when player isn’t aware of where opponents are, and as I said, when they get caught up in a cluster of players, and get tangled up.
RE: They can start by not signing injury prone players  
WillVAB : 5/10/2022 11:39 pm : link
In comment 15704587 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
and drafting injury prone players.

Rudolph and Golladay last year

Drafting Sam Beal


This. When you have an entire offense comprised of injury prone players you can’t really be shocked when they get hurt.
This problem cannot be understated. We solve this and we'll  
markky : 5/11/2022 5:43 am : link
have gone a long way to getting back to a winning record.

I think it's all of the above
- we draft injury prone players
- we start the season with a couple of losses
- we're the weaker team so we get pushed around and get hurt
- there is something wrong in our conditioning and medical programs.

keeping players on the field is part of the job of management.
Two words -- Aaron Wellman  
GiantTuff1 : 5/11/2022 10:14 am : link
After the Super Bowl run from 2012 thru 2015 the Giants were the most injured team in the league by a wide margin.

Wellman comes in, does some changes to the strength and conditioning program and suddenly the 2016 Giants are one of the healthiest teams. After Wellman left, it seemed to go to shit again. But over his tenure it seemed injuries were down overall.

What did Wellman do differently than what happened in all the other years before and after him?
An atrocious oline  
Spiciest Memelord : 5/11/2022 10:52 am : link
has got to be a factor in getting your RBs and QBs injured.
I think policy-wise one immutable rule :  
RetroJint : 5/11/2022 12:20 pm : link
No priority given to any player that’s had a significant injury history . But I think even under a moron like Gettleman , the Giants were trying to adhere to that rule , at least as far as the draft goes .

But , each injury is a unique set of circumstances . Barkley has had 3 significant, non-contact related injuries . Jones probably doesn’t have the survival instincts that Eli had, such as don’t drop your helmet and pads and slam into a Cowboy linebacker . Martinez , who was playing terribly at the time , tried to plant and change direction in the flat . He was in a very poor athletic posture . Do the field surface , footwear & lack of flexibility training have anything to do with this ? Who knows ?

Above somebody noted how the Giants seemed unprepared to start the season . Judge was terrified of injuries . I remember his him saying that it takes you four games to figure out what you have on your roster. Wait a minute . Everybody has the same slate of realities . To me , that statement was a fireable offense . Right up there with it takes 2 seasons to teach a guy how to practice properly . Wha? These guys have been going to practice since Pop Warner . They are included in the group that did the best over the years . That’s why they are in the NFL.

What annoys me is this is not an area where there are any secrets withheld . All of these strength and conditioning coaches , as well as the trainers , go to yearly conventions to discuss advancements and improvements . They receive certifications for completing new studies . Hell all of this stuff is available online .

Lastly Ronnie Barnes -no offense -but only on the Giants would a guy fail up into a VP position . If nothing more than to make an organization-wide statement that this health record has to improve , will improve, Barnes should have been let go awhile ago .
Ronnie Barnes is 70  
cosmicj : 5/11/2022 1:18 pm : link
He really needs to retire.
RE: An atrocious oline  
BSIMatt : 5/11/2022 1:18 pm : link
In comment 15705186 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
has got to be a factor in getting your RBs and QBs injured.


No question, it certainly can't help.
RE: RE: I think  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/11/2022 2:00 pm : link
In comment 15704640 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 15704617 Professor Falken said:


Quote:


you also have to factor in the long term wear and tear that comes from practicing and playing on turf.


Pretty sure the Giants practice fields are grass.

Outdoor yes, but I'm guessing their indoor practice field(s) are turf.

Do they practice indoors more often than necessary? I have no idea.
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