should have gone even further and used 2022 as the Year of Total Cap Pain. Cut/trade LW, Barkley, Jones, Martinez, KG, etc.
And level with the fan base by telling them we are going for the short term, excruciating pain for long-term gain by essentially becoming an expansion franchise.
Smart fans will understand. Daft, emotional fans will get over it.
I believe we are carrying $4M dead money for Shepard next year and if Schoen believes it is time to cut bait with Williams, Golladay, and Jackson we could have another 'constrained' year before it's cleaned up.
should have gone even further and used 2022 as the Year of Total Cap Pain. Cut/trade LW, Barkley, Jones, Martinez, KG, etc.
And level with the fan base by telling them we are going for the short term, excruciating pain for long-term gain by essentially becoming an expansion franchise.
Smart fans will understand. Daft, emotional fans will get over it.
Without a trading partner, there actually wasn’t too too much more Schoen could have done by way of clearing more future cap space.
Obviously, I can't prove it. But I would bet that they couldn't trade guys like Barkley and Bradberry because their asking price was too high, and they didn't budge off that.
should have gone even further and used 2022 as the Year of Total Cap Pain. Cut/trade LW, Barkley, Jones, Martinez, KG, etc.
And level with the fan base by telling them we are going for the short term, excruciating pain for long-term gain by essentially becoming an expansion franchise.
Smart fans will understand. Daft, emotional fans will get over it.
I believe he’s hitting a good balance. Minimal dead money for 23, but keeping enough talent to field a team that can at least compete. The won/lost record is not important but building a core is. And with a comparatively easy home schedule this year,I’m hoping we can reestablish an “our house” mentality. Can’t do that with zero personnel.
should have gone even further and used 2022 as the Year of Total Cap Pain. Cut/trade LW, Barkley, Jones, Martinez, KG, etc.
And level with the fan base by telling them we are going for the short term, excruciating pain for long-term gain by essentially becoming an expansion franchise.
Smart fans will understand. Daft, emotional fans will get over it.
Considering the new regime has somewhere between 17-34 games to win or be fired, you want them to basically write off the first 17?
You, a “smart fan” want them to build and establish a culture of winning by removing the team’s only playmakers? You expect Daboll to be successful with rookies, UDFAs and vet min stopgaps?
Part of putting players in position to succeed is having the right players around them. Know your role, do your job, trust in the man next to you. Allowing young ascending players an opportunity to grow versus wilting under the immediate pressure of carrying a position group or unit.
Schoen is doing exactly what he said he's gonna do IMHO. For 2023 they have $83,551,802 available cap space (3rd best) and for dead money, $0.
They are set up nicely for 2023 which is a big piece of this puzzle. The only thing that could have made it better for 2023 is if they had more draft capital to move up in the draft IF they need to move up for a QB.
I wonder if they make a little splash in 2023 Free Agency? I hope they make serious moves next season too but I don't want to see them break the bank either. High-priced FAs rarely earn that level of pay IMHO. Still, I think the 2023 off-season might be almost as fun to watch as this off-season.
should have gone even further and used 2022 as the Year of Total Cap Pain. Cut/trade LW, Barkley, Jones, Martinez, KG, etc.
And level with the fan base by telling them we are going for the short term, excruciating pain for long-term gain by essentially becoming an expansion franchise.
Smart fans will understand. Daft, emotional fans will get over it.
Considering the new regime has somewhere between 17-34 games to win or be fired, you want them to basically write off the first 17?
You, a “smart fan” want them to build and establish a culture of winning by removing the team’s only playmakers? You expect Daboll to be successful with rookies, UDFAs and vet min stopgaps?
Part of putting players in position to succeed is having the right players around them. Know your role, do your job, trust in the man next to you. Allowing young ascending players an opportunity to grow versus wilting under the immediate pressure of carrying a position group or unit.
Look, they aren't going to write off 2022, so it's a moot point.
But, yes, I would have supported a decision to write-off this season 100%. JFC, does it matter if we win 1-2 games in a strategic write off or maybe - maybe - 8 games, tops, with a quasi-competitive team?
Again, I trust that the fan base would have been tolerable of a complete tear down if leveled with. They understand the damage DG did with personnel and contracts; and that it may take 2-3 years to build a real foundation this time using real concrete instead of wooden stilts.
Right now 2022 is basically a 2021 redux - trying to figure out if Jones is a long-term solution.
Sorry, but the first attempt at that movie was a disaster. I expect the sequel to be equally unentertaining.
Schoen is doing exactly what he said he's gonna do IMHO. For 2023 they have $83,551,802 available cap space (3rd best) and for dead money, $0.
The Giants are in good shape in the out years no doubt, but once they sign their 2022 rookie class that 2023 number will go down to about 60M. And that’s going to be with about 40 players on the roster tops.
They can make a bunch more room by cutting players (which will create, not accelerate much dead money).
Of course that creates more holes to fill on the roster. Which is fine.
all in all schoen has done a solid job taking his medicine while keeping the roster talented enough to be functional.
It was unfortunate the Bradberry trade didn't happen but they created 2 new picks and picked a player i like better than who they wanted at #36 so im not so annoyed about a lost day 3 pick. It easily could have ended up being Corker any way.
the DB group is the most fascinating over the rest of the offseason and entering camp. Everything we know about Wink's D is that it's essential and yet it's taken the biggest hit in terms of $ on the field while not adding a single veteran. I'd imagine that part of the equation will change at some point with some VSB guys, perhaps after rookie tryouts.
is the league frowns on obvious tanking (ie- not trying to win at all)
If they cut everyone, they would need replacement level players to fill out a roster. They would go 0-17 AND be non competitive in every game.
The league, from an image standpoint, would have big problems with that.
There are now 6 players left to get rid of Jones, Barkley, Leo, Martinez, Jackson and Golladay. Then they can start over. They can get rid of all of them next off season, with relatively minimal pain.
Personally, I never thought 1 year was going to fly as a cap solution. It always seemed like a 2 year process to me. Significant improvement in 23 and contention in 24 seemed reasonable.
is the league frowns on obvious tanking (ie- not trying to win at all)
If they cut everyone, they would need replacement level players to fill out a roster. They would go 0-17 AND be non competitive in every game.
The league, from an image standpoint, would have big problems with that.
There are now 6 players left to get rid of Jones, Barkley, Leo, Martinez, Jackson and Golladay. Then they can start over. They can get rid of all of them next off season, with relatively minimal pain.
Personally, I never thought 1 year was going to fly as a cap solution. It always seemed like a 2 year process to me. Significant improvement in 23 and contention in 24 seemed reasonable.
tanking is only an obvious choice when it's not your job.
is the league frowns on obvious tanking (ie- not trying to win at all)
If they cut everyone, they would need replacement level players to fill out a roster. They would go 0-17 AND be non competitive in every game.
The league, from an image standpoint, would have big problems with that.
There are now 6 players left to get rid of Jones, Barkley, Leo, Martinez, Jackson and Golladay. Then they can start over. They can get rid of all of them next off season, with relatively minimal pain.
Personally, I never thought 1 year was going to fly as a cap solution. It always seemed like a 2 year process to me. Significant improvement in 23 and contention in 24 seemed reasonable.
tanking is only an obvious choice when it's not your job.
No kidding. Though Mara did promise to be more patient. this time. again.
My favorite part was that we could just level with the fan base and tell them a "strategic" 2 win season was coming, and that would be tolerable. (obviously we tell them after they pay for their seats)
These fucking savages will be out for blood by columbus day.
is the league frowns on obvious tanking (ie- not trying to win at all)
If they cut everyone, they would need replacement level players to fill out a roster. They would go 0-17 AND be non competitive in every game.
The league, from an image standpoint, would have big problems with that.
There are now 6 players left to get rid of Jones, Barkley, Leo, Martinez, Jackson and Golladay. Then they can start over. They can get rid of all of them next off season, with relatively minimal pain.
Personally, I never thought 1 year was going to fly as a cap solution. It always seemed like a 2 year process to me. Significant improvement in 23 and contention in 24 seemed reasonable.
Again, it's a moot point. But the main point of the idea would be to accelerate the inevitable and get the rebuild process going sooner. Waiting a year, to me, is just wasting time. It's always darkest before the dawn...
The Giants have been a bad team for a decade. The product has been putrid. So, what's the difference if we went 1-16 or 2-15 but with a young, non-name roster? And why can't a team like that be hungry and competitive?
is the league frowns on obvious tanking (ie- not trying to win at all)
If they cut everyone, they would need replacement level players to fill out a roster. They would go 0-17 AND be non competitive in every game.
The league, from an image standpoint, would have big problems with that.
There are now 6 players left to get rid of Jones, Barkley, Leo, Martinez, Jackson and Golladay. Then they can start over. They can get rid of all of them next off season, with relatively minimal pain.
Personally, I never thought 1 year was going to fly as a cap solution. It always seemed like a 2 year process to me. Significant improvement in 23 and contention in 24 seemed reasonable.
Again, it's a moot point. But the main point of the idea would be to accelerate the inevitable and get the rebuild process going sooner. Waiting a year, to me, is just wasting time. It's always darkest before the dawn...
The Giants have been a bad team for a decade. The product has been putrid. So, what's the difference if we went 1-16 or 2-15 but with a young, non-name roster? And why can't a team like that be hungry and competitive?
That is your opinion and my guess not how GM Shoen, Asst GM Brandon Brown and HC Daboll. They want to put something decent on the field and they are not playing for your 1-16 as Giant fans will ask for their heads. They want to win even if you want more players gone, that is not happening.
Giant fans want improvement sorry even if you don't
The Giants will still be scrubbing the Gettleman stink out
Getting rid of all of them will result in $32M dead money
I would not be surprised to see Toney and or Shepherd traded. Toney is on a 1st round guaranteed deal. Shepherd results in a cap loss this year unless he is traded. And he carries a $4.245 dead money hit in a void year in '23.
There are others, but their impact is much smaller...
but I think LW will benefit from Winks D, and he likes NY, will see the arrow up, and also that Schoen isn’t a pushover, and will rework his contract.
Golladay , even on a good season, is selfish and will bleed the contract.
Jackson: who knows? He wasn’t around long enough to learn about him directly.
I think we’ll be back to our normal 7 picks next year, so unless some players and picks get moved, rookie replacements will only be 1 for 1 for whatever needs there will be: OL WR, DL, LB CB, S.
It doesn't. If those players were worth their contracts, we'd find a way to keep them. The largest dead money hit there is Bradbury. The League has spoken: he's not good enough to justify his deal; otherwise, someone would have traded for him. The cap does not prevent any team from keeping a player they really want to keep and who they think is worth keeping.
Properly evaluating players, keeping a pipeline of good players coming is more important so you are not handing out big money deals to bums is more important. We weren't good at either.
football player. Not sure he will be on the chopping block, but it would save $18 mill. Shepard is definitely gone next year. Likely Golladay, unless he shows up this year, that is $6 mill, $13 mill if post June 1st cut. Jackson is a VG CB when he is on the field, but he is likely gone for $9 mill in savings - almost an entire draft class..
That would be #$33 mill in savings. I am still not sure LW is a definite cut.
should have gone even further and used 2022 as the Year of Total Cap Pain. Cut/trade LW, Barkley, Jones, Martinez, KG, etc.
And level with the fan base by telling them we are going for the short term, excruciating pain for long-term gain by essentially becoming an expansion franchise.
Smart fans will understand. Daft, emotional fans will get over it.
Considering the new regime has somewhere between 17-34 games to win or be fired, you want them to basically write off the first 17?
You, a “smart fan” want them to build and establish a culture of winning by removing the team’s only playmakers? You expect Daboll to be successful with rookies, UDFAs and vet min stopgaps?
Part of putting players in position to succeed is having the right players around them. Know your role, do your job, trust in the man next to you. Allowing young ascending players an opportunity to grow versus wilting under the immediate pressure of carrying a position group or unit.
Agree mako, Unless it s the end of a lost season and a few more losses garners a team the quarterback they covet, I ve never prescribed to the win by losing philosophy
I think the new regime has 51 games to show that the Giants
They should send him the bill...
Keep cutting, Schoen!
And level with the fan base by telling them we are going for the short term, excruciating pain for long-term gain by essentially becoming an expansion franchise.
Smart fans will understand. Daft, emotional fans will get over it.
For all those who say move on, it would have been much easier if the fans had some closure and Gettlemen was held accountable.
For all those who say move on, it would have been much easier if the fans had some closure and Gettlemen was held accountable.
Or if we weren't still saddled with so many of his players.
And level with the fan base by telling them we are going for the short term, excruciating pain for long-term gain by essentially becoming an expansion franchise.
Smart fans will understand. Daft, emotional fans will get over it.
Definitely some of those names...
By djm or Gettleman?
Obviously, I can't prove it. But I would bet that they couldn't trade guys like Barkley and Bradberry because their asking price was too high, and they didn't budge off that.
Quote:
on BBI that the cap doesn't matter.
By djm or Gettleman?
There were a few others as well. NFL teams devote a significant portion of a senior employee's job to the cap, but these guys know better.
-Dave Gettleman
And level with the fan base by telling them we are going for the short term, excruciating pain for long-term gain by essentially becoming an expansion franchise.
Smart fans will understand. Daft, emotional fans will get over it.
I believe he’s hitting a good balance. Minimal dead money for 23, but keeping enough talent to field a team that can at least compete. The won/lost record is not important but building a core is. And with a comparatively easy home schedule this year,I’m hoping we can reestablish an “our house” mentality. Can’t do that with zero personnel.
Stupid me for not noticing that... I just cut and paste from OTC. Typo on their part.
I deleted that line.
If they win that money is free to spend, if they lose that number will increase to 3M.
Think Galloday, Martinez and Shep go next year. Jackson is TBD. Williams I think is more likely to be extended as he is the best player on the D.
And level with the fan base by telling them we are going for the short term, excruciating pain for long-term gain by essentially becoming an expansion franchise.
Smart fans will understand. Daft, emotional fans will get over it.
Considering the new regime has somewhere between 17-34 games to win or be fired, you want them to basically write off the first 17?
You, a “smart fan” want them to build and establish a culture of winning by removing the team’s only playmakers? You expect Daboll to be successful with rookies, UDFAs and vet min stopgaps?
Part of putting players in position to succeed is having the right players around them. Know your role, do your job, trust in the man next to you. Allowing young ascending players an opportunity to grow versus wilting under the immediate pressure of carrying a position group or unit.
-Dave Gettleman
P.O.D.!
If they win that money is free to spend, if they lose that number will increase to 3M.
Double stupid me? I can't win.
I cannot think of any other reason of how an owner could not see how poorly run the Giants were.
It's really beyond amazing and not in a good way.
Falcons = $62,847,438
Bears = $52,848,763
Texans = $52,234,624
Seahawks = $44,584,057
Schoen is doing exactly what he said he's gonna do IMHO. For 2023 they have $83,551,802 available cap space (3rd best) and for dead money, $0.
They are set up nicely for 2023 which is a big piece of this puzzle. The only thing that could have made it better for 2023 is if they had more draft capital to move up in the draft IF they need to move up for a QB.
I wonder if they make a little splash in 2023 Free Agency? I hope they make serious moves next season too but I don't want to see them break the bank either. High-priced FAs rarely earn that level of pay IMHO. Still, I think the 2023 off-season might be almost as fun to watch as this off-season.
Quote:
should have gone even further and used 2022 as the Year of Total Cap Pain. Cut/trade LW, Barkley, Jones, Martinez, KG, etc.
And level with the fan base by telling them we are going for the short term, excruciating pain for long-term gain by essentially becoming an expansion franchise.
Smart fans will understand. Daft, emotional fans will get over it.
Considering the new regime has somewhere between 17-34 games to win or be fired, you want them to basically write off the first 17?
You, a “smart fan” want them to build and establish a culture of winning by removing the team’s only playmakers? You expect Daboll to be successful with rookies, UDFAs and vet min stopgaps?
Part of putting players in position to succeed is having the right players around them. Know your role, do your job, trust in the man next to you. Allowing young ascending players an opportunity to grow versus wilting under the immediate pressure of carrying a position group or unit.
Look, they aren't going to write off 2022, so it's a moot point.
But, yes, I would have supported a decision to write-off this season 100%. JFC, does it matter if we win 1-2 games in a strategic write off or maybe - maybe - 8 games, tops, with a quasi-competitive team?
Again, I trust that the fan base would have been tolerable of a complete tear down if leveled with. They understand the damage DG did with personnel and contracts; and that it may take 2-3 years to build a real foundation this time using real concrete instead of wooden stilts.
Right now 2022 is basically a 2021 redux - trying to figure out if Jones is a long-term solution.
Sorry, but the first attempt at that movie was a disaster. I expect the sequel to be equally unentertaining.
I cannot think of any other reason of how an owner could not see how poorly run the Giants were.
It's really beyond amazing and not in a good way.
Mara's oversentimentality with regards to Gettleman (cancer) and Eli really hurt the team.
The Giants are in good shape in the out years no doubt, but once they sign their 2022 rookie class that 2023 number will go down to about 60M. And that’s going to be with about 40 players on the roster tops.
They can make a bunch more room by cutting players (which will create, not accelerate much dead money).
Of course that creates more holes to fill on the roster. Which is fine.
It was unfortunate the Bradberry trade didn't happen but they created 2 new picks and picked a player i like better than who they wanted at #36 so im not so annoyed about a lost day 3 pick. It easily could have ended up being Corker any way.
the DB group is the most fascinating over the rest of the offseason and entering camp. Everything we know about Wink's D is that it's essential and yet it's taken the biggest hit in terms of $ on the field while not adding a single veteran. I'd imagine that part of the equation will change at some point with some VSB guys, perhaps after rookie tryouts.
If they cut everyone, they would need replacement level players to fill out a roster. They would go 0-17 AND be non competitive in every game.
The league, from an image standpoint, would have big problems with that.
There are now 6 players left to get rid of Jones, Barkley, Leo, Martinez, Jackson and Golladay. Then they can start over. They can get rid of all of them next off season, with relatively minimal pain.
Personally, I never thought 1 year was going to fly as a cap solution. It always seemed like a 2 year process to me. Significant improvement in 23 and contention in 24 seemed reasonable.
If they cut everyone, they would need replacement level players to fill out a roster. They would go 0-17 AND be non competitive in every game.
The league, from an image standpoint, would have big problems with that.
There are now 6 players left to get rid of Jones, Barkley, Leo, Martinez, Jackson and Golladay. Then they can start over. They can get rid of all of them next off season, with relatively minimal pain.
Personally, I never thought 1 year was going to fly as a cap solution. It always seemed like a 2 year process to me. Significant improvement in 23 and contention in 24 seemed reasonable.
tanking is only an obvious choice when it's not your job.
Quote:
is the league frowns on obvious tanking (ie- not trying to win at all)
If they cut everyone, they would need replacement level players to fill out a roster. They would go 0-17 AND be non competitive in every game.
The league, from an image standpoint, would have big problems with that.
There are now 6 players left to get rid of Jones, Barkley, Leo, Martinez, Jackson and Golladay. Then they can start over. They can get rid of all of them next off season, with relatively minimal pain.
Personally, I never thought 1 year was going to fly as a cap solution. It always seemed like a 2 year process to me. Significant improvement in 23 and contention in 24 seemed reasonable.
tanking is only an obvious choice when it's not your job.
No kidding. Though Mara did promise to be more patient. this time. again.
My favorite part was that we could just level with the fan base and tell them a "strategic" 2 win season was coming, and that would be tolerable. (obviously we tell them after they pay for their seats)
These fucking savages will be out for blood by columbus day.
If they cut everyone, they would need replacement level players to fill out a roster. They would go 0-17 AND be non competitive in every game.
The league, from an image standpoint, would have big problems with that.
There are now 6 players left to get rid of Jones, Barkley, Leo, Martinez, Jackson and Golladay. Then they can start over. They can get rid of all of them next off season, with relatively minimal pain.
Personally, I never thought 1 year was going to fly as a cap solution. It always seemed like a 2 year process to me. Significant improvement in 23 and contention in 24 seemed reasonable.
Again, it's a moot point. But the main point of the idea would be to accelerate the inevitable and get the rebuild process going sooner. Waiting a year, to me, is just wasting time. It's always darkest before the dawn...
The Giants have been a bad team for a decade. The product has been putrid. So, what's the difference if we went 1-16 or 2-15 but with a young, non-name roster? And why can't a team like that be hungry and competitive?
Quote:
is the league frowns on obvious tanking (ie- not trying to win at all)
If they cut everyone, they would need replacement level players to fill out a roster. They would go 0-17 AND be non competitive in every game.
The league, from an image standpoint, would have big problems with that.
There are now 6 players left to get rid of Jones, Barkley, Leo, Martinez, Jackson and Golladay. Then they can start over. They can get rid of all of them next off season, with relatively minimal pain.
Personally, I never thought 1 year was going to fly as a cap solution. It always seemed like a 2 year process to me. Significant improvement in 23 and contention in 24 seemed reasonable.
Again, it's a moot point. But the main point of the idea would be to accelerate the inevitable and get the rebuild process going sooner. Waiting a year, to me, is just wasting time. It's always darkest before the dawn...
The Giants have been a bad team for a decade. The product has been putrid. So, what's the difference if we went 1-16 or 2-15 but with a young, non-name roster? And why can't a team like that be hungry and competitive?
That is your opinion and my guess not how GM Shoen, Asst GM Brandon Brown and HC Daboll. They want to put something decent on the field and they are not playing for your 1-16 as Giant fans will ask for their heads. They want to win even if you want more players gone, that is not happening.
Giant fans want improvement sorry even if you don't
DJ and SB will be allowed to leave.
LW has a $26M hit
KG a $21.4M hit
AJ a $19.5M hit
Getting rid of all of them will result in $32M dead money
I would not be surprised to see Toney and or Shepherd traded. Toney is on a 1st round guaranteed deal. Shepherd results in a cap loss this year unless he is traded. And he carries a $4.245 dead money hit in a void year in '23.
There are others, but their impact is much smaller...
The blood will spill next year as well.
Golladay , even on a good season, is selfish and will bleed the contract.
Jackson: who knows? He wasn’t around long enough to learn about him directly.
I think we’ll be back to our normal 7 picks next year, so unless some players and picks get moved, rookie replacements will only be 1 for 1 for whatever needs there will be: OL WR, DL, LB CB, S.
Properly evaluating players, keeping a pipeline of good players coming is more important so you are not handing out big money deals to bums is more important. We weren't good at either.
That would be #$33 mill in savings. I am still not sure LW is a definite cut.
BTW, Martinez is a FA after this season.
Quote:
should have gone even further and used 2022 as the Year of Total Cap Pain. Cut/trade LW, Barkley, Jones, Martinez, KG, etc.
And level with the fan base by telling them we are going for the short term, excruciating pain for long-term gain by essentially becoming an expansion franchise.
Smart fans will understand. Daft, emotional fans will get over it.
Considering the new regime has somewhere between 17-34 games to win or be fired, you want them to basically write off the first 17?
You, a “smart fan” want them to build and establish a culture of winning by removing the team’s only playmakers? You expect Daboll to be successful with rookies, UDFAs and vet min stopgaps?
Part of putting players in position to succeed is having the right players around them. Know your role, do your job, trust in the man next to you. Allowing young ascending players an opportunity to grow versus wilting under the immediate pressure of carrying a position group or unit.
Agree mako, Unless it s the end of a lost season and a few more losses garners a team the quarterback they covet, I ve never prescribed to the win by losing philosophy
Awful.
Awful.
Yep, we all know this. But look at what Houston has and it is far worse then the Giants...
Quote:
which means the cap is really $177m for a team that stinks with a QB on a rookie contract.
Awful.
Yep, we all know this. But look at what Houston has and it is far worse then the Giants...
Great. I feel better. :)