I think we're about to see a type of offensive system that is at the cutting edge of the NFL.
Whether the QB can handle it is a different subject, but the mix of what Daboll did in Buffalo, Kafka's experience in KC, and the skill set of newly acquired Robinson to go along with Toney, I just get the sense we're going into unchartered for Giants fans.
I also think we're going to see Saquon's pass receptions #s to approach his rookie season numbers (if he stays healthy and/or doesn't get traded in season).
Go post this narrative on the Dallas website and you will get eaten alive. Most of their fans will tell that Dak for all his grand stats never shows up in the big games and has padded stats. He does not make all the throws, has a questionable arm strength, cannot read defenses and needs everything to be perfect to win. Sound familiar. He has won nothing in 6 years.
bw is a broken clock that's not even right twice a day. notice there's no answer as to why Dak was a franchise QB in 2019 but they didn't extend him for more than 2 years (and after he suffered a pretty gruesome injury no less).
But they are 53-32 with him at the helm. So, he's doing something right as Dallas has five winning seasons out of six with him as the starter. And that's a bit misleading because he only played five games in 2020 before he got hurt against NYG in Dallas.
He's not Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Allen, Wilson, Herbert. But he's right at that top ten threshold. He makes plays and is a dual threat.
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Go post this narrative on the Dallas website and you will get eaten alive. Most of their fans will tell that Dak for all his grand stats never shows up in the big games and has padded stats. He does not make all the throws, has a questionable arm strength, cannot read defenses and needs everything to be perfect to win. Sound familiar. He has won nothing in 6 years.
bw is a broken clock that's not even right twice a day. notice there's no answer as to why Dak was a franchise QB in 2019 but they didn't extend him for more than 2 years (and after he suffered a pretty gruesome injury no less).
I’d be happy with once a day to start. Don’t expect a answer. He just moves to a different thread.
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In comment 15706781 joe48 said:
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Go post this narrative on the Dallas website and you will get eaten alive. Most of their fans will tell that Dak for all his grand stats never shows up in the big games and has padded stats. He does not make all the throws, has a questionable arm strength, cannot read defenses and needs everything to be perfect to win. Sound familiar. He has won nothing in 6 years.
bw is a broken clock that's not even right twice a day. notice there's no answer as to why Dak was a franchise QB in 2019 but they didn't extend him for more than 2 years (and after he suffered a pretty gruesome injury no less).
I’d be happy with once a day to start. Don’t expect a answer. He just moves to a different thread.
honestly it would be a favor i don't know why i waste the time i do.
for fun though BW claims Dak was a top 10 QB in March 2019 off the following season (his 3rd):
Dak - 67%, 3885 yards, 22 tds, 8 ints, 7.4 y/a, 96 qb rtg, 55 qbr
QB A - 66%, 4,299 yards, 21 tds, 11 ints, 7.5 y/a, 92 qb rtg, 49 qbr
QB B - 62%, 3,000 yards, 24 tds, 12 ints, 6.6 y/a, 87 qb rtg, 55 qbr
do we think BW considered QB A or QB B top 10 QBs? i'll only offer 1 hint, neither player had the dallas OL in front of them.
And the stats, well the ones should matter, bear that out. Especially when Dak got back on track in 2019.
Of course, I'm dealing with posters who think total passing yards and passing yards per game are reliable indicators.
Which means Jameis Winston was the best QB in 2018 when he passed for 5K+ yards and 320 YPG. Do you want to stand by that, btw?
And the stats, well the ones should matter, bear that out. Especially when Dak got back on track in 2019.
Of course, I'm dealing with posters who think total passing yards and passing yards per game are reliable indicators.
Which means Jameis Winston was the best QB in 2018 when he passed for 5K+ yards and 320 YPG. Do you want to stand by that, btw?
he may have been if he didn't also throw 30 interceptions. notice i list interceptions and all the other important statistical inputs used to evaluate QBs for the last 50 years as opposed to the 1 opaque stat your fond of.
as you project your impairments it reminds me you've still forgotten to answer a very simple question - if the total body of work was top 10 QB, why did it take Dallas 2.5 years to extend him? why let a franchise QB play out his final year on his rookie deal, just as the nyg are doing right now with Jones?
he may have been if he didn't also throw 30 interceptions. notice i list interceptions and all the other important statistical inputs used to evaluate QBs for the last 50 years as opposed to the 1 opaque stat your fond of.
as you project your impairments it reminds me you've still forgotten to answer a very simple question - if the total body of work was top 10 QB, why did it take Dallas 2.5 years to extend him? why let a franchise QB play out his final year on his rookie deal, just as the nyg are doing right now with Jones?
Stats like QBR, YPA, AY/A are much better measuring sticks because they are aggregated numbers that take so many variables into account. Perfect? No. But they are better than ancient stats like total yards. I mean, you also referenced Pass Rating. What a junk measurement that is.
I don't know why it took Jerry so long to reach a deal with Dak. Jerry was playing hardball. I feel pretty comfortable taking the position, however, that Jerry missed an opportunity to get Dak cheaper because - I believe - Dak decided to scrap negotiations, gamble on himself, and going into 2020 by accepting the franchise tag.
But how has it played out? Is Dak a top ten QB or not?
Jerry can be a lot of things but he knows OL play and he knows what big time QB play looks like.
Jerry can be a lot of things but he knows OL play and he knows what big time QB play looks like.
And when the dust settled, Jerry gave Dak 4yrs/$160M @ $125M guaranteed.
Nice regular season QB with a very talented team. Still waiting if he becomes one who elevates his team in the playoffs.
But how has it played out? Is Dak a top ten QB or not?
since Kellen Moore of course but before that he was not. which is kind of the entire point. that's why Jerry didn't pay him 30m per year and let his rookie contract expire but then tagged him at 31m twice and ultimately extended him at 40m.
Nice regular season QB with a very talented team. Still waiting if he becomes one who elevates his team in the playoffs.
correct - after year 3 Jerry wasn't in a much different posture than Schoen right now since Dak didn't have a 5YO. They weren't sure about him even though he'd been better than Jones. They promoted Moore, modernized the offense, and Dak started throwing for 5k+ yards and then the decision was obvious.
Yep, he was a putrid 4-8 but:
- In 12 games he was sacked 38 times
- In 1/2 of those games, he was sacked 4+ times (he was under duress constantly)
- In 7 of the 12 games, the Giants RBs rushed for fewer than 55yds...that's really bad~
- The Giants averaged 24pts (w/DJ as starter) per game with very little support from the OL or the RBs
- The Giants defense gave up 28+ points per game (30th in NFL)
- During this season, he threw over 35x per game
- Since his rookie year, the NYGs have gotten worse. Maybe they get right together?
At the end of the day, the math suggests that there is something to work with.
I don't think that he'll get past 2022 with the Giants, but I am not unhappy, especially given the circumstances of the timing of the new era, that Jones will be the QB in 2022.
I think Shurmur knows how to hide a QBs flaws and get max production.
In retrospect, I think Joe Judge was way in over his head and also created a mess with offense staff. It was pretty clear to me he didn’t respect Garrett, and he filled the staff with his goofball friends.
The most optimism I can muster for Jones is he had a few big games when he played for a coach who could cover his flaws.
I don’t think that’s a championship formula, but maybe Daboll can do something similar.
Hopefully it's fun to watch.
But they are 53-32 with him at the helm. So, he's doing something right as Dallas has five winning seasons out of six with him as the starter. And that's a bit misleading because he only played five games in 2020 before he got hurt against NYG in Dallas.
He's not Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Allen, Wilson, Herbert. But he's right at that top ten threshold. He makes plays and is a dual threat.
He plays on a far more talented team. You left that part out in the DJ hit piece. That is something that some of DJ critics leave out. Anyway this is a make or break year and the Giant organization owns the QB mess because they failed.
The evaluation is if he can grow to handle those type of situations at a higher cost which will make it that much harder to have a supporting team around him on offense and defense. That decision may be easy. Jones may still make it complex and they will have to measure it against getting a alternative in the draft imv.
The evaluation is if he can grow to handle those type of situations at a higher cost which will make it that much harder to have a supporting team around him on offense and defense. That decision may be easy. Jones may still make it complex and they will have to measure it against getting a alternative in the draft imv.
I agree that if he's retained as a starter he will be >$20M; but he's not making $50M and while it's great to have a Rodgers/Mahomes type of guy; you can't afford to keep your top players long term (Adams & Hill). I think what Daboll and JS are thinking is to build an offense which makes it easy on the QB. You may not need a Rodgers/Mahomes type of guy if you have enough weapons around a solid QB.
Meanwhile, Jones has never shown the ability Dak showed earlier on and the stats display that, too.
So saying Jones can “emerge” like Prescott is patent bullshit.
Now on to Kirk Cousin’s early career, which is even more damaging to the “DJ as late bloomer” thesis.
Meanwhile, Jones has never shown the ability Dak showed earlier on and the stats display that, too.
So saying Jones can “emerge” like Prescott is patent bullshit.
Now on to Kirk Cousin’s early career, which is even more damaging to the “DJ as late bloomer” thesis.
What is bullshit is not recognizing that Dallas had two future HOF OL on the team and a Center who was regarding as one of the best before injuries did him in (and potential third HOF type player). They also were above average at the other two spots on the line. Then while not what he was a HOF TE who still was a very good blocker and reliable target.
Jones his first three years had.........? I am not even the biggest Jones fan but to say he has had close to what Dak did is really short sighted imv. Dak's situation was one of the best I have seen for a QB to walk into.
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is they have to evaluate Jones as a QB who is about to become very expensive. So I expect some level of balance between coddling him along (team support) while also putting him in situations to see if he can handle more complex situations.
The evaluation is if he can grow to handle those type of situations at a higher cost which will make it that much harder to have a supporting team around him on offense and defense. That decision may be easy. Jones may still make it complex and they will have to measure it against getting a alternative in the draft imv.
I agree that if he's retained as a starter he will be >$20M; but he's not making $50M and while it's great to have a Rodgers/Mahomes type of guy; you can't afford to keep your top players long term (Adams & Hill). I think what Daboll and JS are thinking is to build an offense which makes it easy on the QB. You may not need a Rodgers/Mahomes type of guy if you have enough weapons around a solid QB.
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But I was 18 years old back then and even I knew that Giants team in 05 limped into the playoffs with big injuries.
Also not all good or even great players play well in their first ever playoffs appearances. It's a thing that people know about but choose to forget when it's convenient. Fans were more eager to be mad that they lost than deal with reality.
TTH honest question for you, in year 4 after throwing 2 touchdowns to Darren Sharper and 4 ints total, what % of the fanbase do you estimate was behind Eli?
I was at that game. I sat in the end zone 2 rows back dead center. I was pretty in line with Eli on every snap. When I was behind him I could see his helmet locking on to receivers for what seemed like forever. On two of the INT's I screamed DON'T THROW IT HE'S GONNA PICK IT!!!
I knew it was going to be a long day when Tavaris Jackson's first pass was a long bomb for a TD. Brutal day.
Tannehill will have the lowest AAV of any starting QB on a 2nd contract next year at 29.5M, and that’s an old deal at this point.
If Jones has a good year, he’s got no incentive to sign a sub-market deal.
His agent would advise him to force the Giants’ hand and get franchised, or sign a prove it deal somewhere.
Meanwhile, Jones has never shown the ability Dak showed earlier on and the stats display that, too.
So saying Jones can “emerge” like Prescott is patent bullshit.
Now on to Kirk Cousin’s early career, which is even more damaging to the “DJ as late bloomer” thesis.
what's being mischaracterized is that anyone is predicting Jones will "emerge" like prescott. what's being compared is the fact that after 3 years his own team was just as uncertain about whether or not he was worth extending - and that's not debatable. It's fact that they had a 2.5 year lame duck period from the end of the 2018 season to just last May where they made him earn an extension.
none of us can predict the future but there are some that refuse to look back at what's already happened with any degree of rationality. when Kellen Moore took over Dak's output exploded in the 2019 and 2020 seasons and after he proved it not once but twice Dallas made him a 40m/year a QB. Again that's not opinion that's just what happened.
none of that is a prediction the same will happen for Jones. it's possible to acknowledge something within a range of possibility without predicting it or even thinking it likely. schoen and daboll have put some skin in the game that it's a possibility or else jones wouldn't still be on the roster and they certainly wouldn't have already declared him starter.
could not disagree more on this. Paying the Wentz/Garoppolo/Cousins tier of QBs whatever that costs going forward ($30m?) is the equivalent of a QB sneak on 2nd down.
if they move on from Jones it will rightfully be for the best rookie they can get their hands on with traits that fit their offense. Taylor's contract indicates that's the plan B if Jones moves on.
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I agree that if he's retained as a starter he will be >$20M; but he's not making $50M and while it's great to have a Rodgers/Mahomes type of guy; you can't afford to keep your top players long term (Adams & Hill). I think what Daboll and JS are thinking is to build an offense which makes it easy on the QB. You may not need a Rodgers/Mahomes type of guy if you have enough weapons around a solid QB.
Tannehill will have the lowest AAV of any starting QB on a 2nd contract next year at 29.5M, and that’s an old deal at this point.
If Jones has a good year, he’s got no incentive to sign a sub-market deal.
His agent would advise him to force the Giants’ hand and get franchised, or sign a prove it deal somewhere.
Agreed but that was after a Pro Bowl season and a AFC Championship performance. If 2022 DJ is a Pro Bowler and leads this team to the NFC Championship Game I think we would all be on board for a 4/$120M. That's the same range as Goff, Jimmy G, Wentz, Carr, etc. He's worth nothing near that today, but if he replicated Tannehill's 2019 then his value is probably $28-30M/yr. If he has a good enough year for JS & Daboll to keep him as the starter but not a Pro Bowl or a playoff birth, I doubt he gets more than what his 5th year option would have been worth.
TTH honest question for you, in year 4 after throwing 2 touchdowns to Darren Sharper and 4 ints total, what % of the fanbase do you estimate was behind Eli?
I was at that game. I sat in the end zone 2 rows back dead center. I was pretty in line with Eli on every snap. When I was behind him I could see his helmet locking on to receivers for what seemed like forever. On two of the INT's I screamed DON'T THROW IT HE'S GONNA PICK IT!!!
I knew it was going to be a long day when Tavaris Jackson's first pass was a long bomb for a TD. Brutal day.
People forget how many brutal days there were within the first 8 years of Coughlin (even though they ended up with 2 trophies and its possibly the best 8 year stretch in franchise history). the NFL is a hard business.
I think it’s silly, but if they were to, I’d go with JG. He’s at least established a floor of winning.
In reality there are two ways to win — draft a high skill QB or acquire a top veteran.
That’s the scenario where Jones has no incentive to sign a multi-year deal at ~20M/YR. The franchise tender is ~31M, and the floor for an OK starter is 30M.
Why would he lock himself into a commitment at below market value?
I think it’s silly, but if they were to, I’d go with JG. He’s at least established a floor of winning.
In reality there are two ways to win — draft a high skill QB or acquire a top veteran.
Garoppolo is imo fool's gold. He has some games where he looks great and others where he looks incompetent. Too unpredictable. I would never want him, Wentz, or Cousins for that reason.
QBs like Carr or Tannehill or Lamar at least have things they do well consistently so you can possibly build a team in their style that emphasizes their strengths and maybe give yourself a chance to win big by wrong footing better teams if everything clicks. Kind of like Cam in Carolina and even Eli to a degree.
I think it’s silly, but if they were to, I’d go with JG. He’s at least established a floor of winning.
In reality there are two ways to win — draft a high skill QB or acquire a top veteran.
I believe we're about to see a new offensive wave in the NFL which places less emphasis on the QB. If you look at what the Dolphins and others are doing, they believe that they can have a top offense with a "system QB". Create mismatches across the field and move the ball with quick reads and misdirection to get playmakers in 1-1 situations. That doesn't mean you can win with a bad QB, but I think offenses are evolving to value playmakers near the same level as QB's. The WR goldrush in the draft & FA shows how much value executives are starting to place on playmakers; if you pay WR's this much it is inevitable that mid-tier QB's on 2nd contracts will probably be devalued.
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If he has a good enough year for JS & Daboll to keep him as the starter but not a Pro Bowl or a playoff birth, I doubt he gets more than what his 5th year option would have been worth.
That’s the scenario where Jones has no incentive to sign a multi-year deal at ~20M/YR. The franchise tender is ~31M, and the floor for an OK starter is 30M.
Why would he lock himself into a commitment at below market value?
Franchise tag is not market value - his value is based on what other teams would pay him on the open market. What teams do you see paying DJ >$25M if he has a good year next year? Seattle, NO, Steelers, Carolina? If any of those teams are in the market for a QB next offseason they'll probably look to the draft. I don't think DJ has that much leverage unless he pulls a Tannehill '19
consistent poise, decision making, escapability are going to be more in demand than some traditional traits. Call it the russell wilson-ification of the QB position. but that wont lead to the position being devalued as those players are still the difference between winning and losing.
bryce young and mac jones at bama are imo the future prototype to where things are going. on the hoof there are more "talented" players but Saban has started honing in on QBs who are elite at making the right decisions consistently and distributing the ball to their playmakers like a good basketball point guard. Prospects coming up now play 7 on 7 practically year round before HS even starts - those are the skills they are getting their 10k hours on before they get to the NFL.
Assuming Jones has a good not great season, and the Giants offer him in the range of 4/80M, he's better off:
1) hoping he gets franchised
2) signing a prove it deal elsewhere and establishing he's worth the 30M floor above average starters make
Jameis Winston, who's older and has lots of warts, off an injury signed for 14 AAV. Jones would be better going that route in his career.
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But how has it played out? Is Dak a top ten QB or not?
since Kellen Moore of course but before that he was not. which is kind of the entire point. that's why Jerry didn't pay him 30m per year and let his rookie contract expire but then tagged him at 31m twice and ultimately extended him at 40m.
Unfortunately, you don't know what you are talking about.
It was reported in multiple sources that going into the 2019 season Dak turned down the Jones's offer of $30M per because he wanted more. And that would have made him - at the time - one of the highest paid QBs at the time.
Instead, Team Dak was willing to take the FT, and gamble they could get a higher number. Which they did.
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I agree Dallas and Dak have come up short in the playoffs.
But they are 53-32 with him at the helm. So, he's doing something right as Dallas has five winning seasons out of six with him as the starter. And that's a bit misleading because he only played five games in 2020 before he got hurt against NYG in Dallas.
He's not Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Allen, Wilson, Herbert. But he's right at that top ten threshold. He makes plays and is a dual threat.
He plays on a far more talented team. You left that part out in the DJ hit piece. That is something that some of DJ critics leave out. Anyway this is a make or break year and the Giant organization owns the QB mess because they failed.
You do realize these two things can be true at the same time - Dak is a talented player and he has played on a talented team.
On the end of that, a team can be poor and so can the QB.
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Franchise tag is not market value - his value is based on what other teams would pay him on the open market. What teams do you see paying DJ >$25M if he has a good year next year? Seattle, NO, Steelers, Carolina? If any of those teams are in the market for a QB next offseason they'll probably look to the draft. I don't think DJ has that much leverage unless he pulls a Tannehill '19
Assuming Jones has a good not great season, and the Giants offer him in the range of 4/80M, he's better off:
1) hoping he gets franchised
2) signing a prove it deal elsewhere and establishing he's worth the 30M floor above average starters make
Jameis Winston, who's older and has lots of warts, off an injury signed for 14 AAV. Jones would be better going that route in his career.
I agree with this. It would be in his best interest to just play on the tag or test the market off a good year then sign some precedent-setting midrange QB deal. I do think one of those funky deals with a juiced up AAV but clear outs for the team after year 1 or 2 could be in play though. He'd still be better off taking his chances on the tag or seeking out a more player friendly structure elsewhere but maybe he's sick of changing coaches and sees it in his best interest over the long term.
For DJ it should be a bird in hand is better than two in the bush. If the Giants are better and the organization is on the rise it would be prudent for DJ to stay here. 4/80M is still a great deal and gives him security and $50M or so in guarantees; why would he take a prove it deal somewhere else and leave that money on the table and enter a situation where he could revert to his play in his first three seasons.
With that said - all of this is pure speculation and I'd love to be in a situation in 2023 where BBI is debating if DJ is a $20M or a $30M QB. He needs to show a lot of improvement for the Giants to be committed past '22
From March 2020 to March 2021 Dak was on a 31.5m franchise tag and they again couldn't come to an agreement over a second full year even though Dak put up a monster year in the 2019 season - the first year with Kellen Moore. 30tds for the first time, averaged 300+ ypg for the first time, while posting his best y/a and not turning the ball over any more than previous years.
In March 2021 Dallas again tagged him for 37.7m because they had no other choice.
In May 2021 Dallas finally extended him for 4 years $160m - which was universally considered a major win for Dak because he basically broke every QB salary record even though he was coming off the broken leg because Dallas had themselves with no alternative being unable to tag him any more.
According to multiple reports Prescott will receive $126 million in guarantees. That number far surpasses Deshaun Watson’s $111.9 million guarantee and is second only to Patrick Mahomes’ $141 million. Mahomes signed a ten year contract so there is no real basis to use Mahomes as a comparison for anything...
...This contract will create a new standard in the league which is going to be the baseline used by Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Baker Mayfield if the three continue to improve next season.
In hindsight was the waiting worth it for Dallas? In light of the injury definitely not. Even with the injury probably not. Dallas’ five year commitment to Prescott will average out to about $38.3 million per season with $157.4M in guarantees. I think they would have gotten a better deal last year had they worked within the four year parameters.
Dallas waited until the last minute possible before being willing to commit to him and then over a barrel made him the highest paid player in the sport because they had no alternative.
otc on the dak extension - ( New Window )
My guess is you will cry to discredit the sources - and that's up to you - but they support my view. Dallas offered Dallas a contract, but Dak decided he was worth more and rolled the dice...
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/08/12/dak-prescott-cowboys-quarterback-turns-down-extension
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/dak-prescott-reportedly-turned-down-30-million-per-year-offer-wants-40-million-annually/
My guess is you will cry to discredit the sources - and that's up to you - but they support my view. Dallas offered Dallas a contract, but Dak decided he was worth more and rolled the dice...
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/08/12/dak-prescott-cowboys-quarterback-turns-down-extension
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/dak-prescott-reportedly-turned-down-30-million-per-year-offer-wants-40-million-annually/
not sure what i expected since it's a day that ends with a y but do you even read the articles you post?
I don't need to discredit anything because the article you linked to already did exactly that:
However, a source familiar with the negotiations told USA Today Sports' Jori Epstein that Prescott's representatives are not asking for $40 million a year, saying, "That is false."
According to Slater, this may just be negotiating tactics and if a deal gets done, the number will likely be closer to $34 to $35 million annually.
there was no 40m comp in 2019 so only an idiot would have believed that to be a legitimate vs the sources that immediately rejected it. Wentz' extension was the relevant comp and i again don't need to look for any other sources to discredit anything because it quite clearly pointed out in the other article you linked:
That was the contract the Cowboys were afraid to commit beyond, and probably rightly so pre-Kellen Moore.
as usual it's hard to follow whatever point you're even trying to make - Dak was always a franchise QB but didn't get extended because he was greedy, not because Dallas didn't think he was a franchise QB?
mine is simple - franchise qbs get extended they don't get treated like kirk cousins for 2.5 years.
And that was the purpose of the links, to show that Jones was indeed willing to pay Dak $30M+ entering 2019.
But Dak turned down Jerry and willingly accepted the FT. He was pushing Jerry around, not the other way around.
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Eric — I’m responding to the hypothetical above regarding designing a system around a middle tier QB.
I think it’s silly, but if they were to, I’d go with JG. He’s at least established a floor of winning.
In reality there are two ways to win — draft a high skill QB or acquire a top veteran.
I believe we're about to see a new offensive wave in the NFL which places less emphasis on the QB. If you look at what the Dolphins and others are doing, they believe that they can have a top offense with a "system QB". Create mismatches across the field and move the ball with quick reads and misdirection to get playmakers in 1-1 situations. That doesn't mean you can win with a bad QB, but I think offenses are evolving to value playmakers near the same level as QB's. The WR goldrush in the draft & FA shows how much value executives are starting to place on playmakers; if you pay WR's this much it is inevitable that mid-tier QB's on 2nd contracts will probably be devalued.
We'll see who's right and who is wrong in the end but I dont agree that that is where the league was heading. The Rams finally won that elusive super bowl once they realized the limitations of a QB who is a cog in the machine rather than a premium talent. I dont believe teams are going to stop chasing the unicorn at QB any time soon.
- quarterbacks holding onto the ball for as long as possible
- offensive targets getting down field as far as possible
You can't beat up the quarterback, you can't get physical with route runners before the ball gets there, and you can't punish the target when he gets the ball.
I think there's a place for quick hits and RAC, but you're playing slow pitch softball against big leaguers if you can't sit back, understand what the defense is discuising, and throw the ball down field.
It's so much damn easier to do that this era. It's a sin not to.
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...that's why Jerry didn't pay him 30m per year and let his rookie contract expire but then tagged him at 31m twice and ultimately extended him at 40m...
And that was the purpose of the links, to show that Jones was indeed willing to pay Dak $30M+ entering 2019.
But Dak turned down Jerry and willingly accepted the FT. He was pushing Jerry around, not the other way around.
like a reliable broken clock you've ended right where you began.
we don't know for a fact what Dak was offered or what he wanted in 2019 or in 2020. both in terms of AAV and guarantees.
we do know factually what the relevant comps were (wentz/wilson).
we do know factually that Dallas had to tag him twice because they couldn't agree to a deal.
we do know factually that they ended up with a contract that "for all intents and purposes makes him the highest paid player in the NFL"
we can also say factually that had they been willing to do that in either of 2019 or 2020 they would have saved themselves some money (pre Mahomes/Watson deals).
is your theory of the case that they were offering to make him the highest paid player in the sport in 2019 and 2020 and he turned them down for 2.5 years because he preferred to play on the tag at a lower AAV?
the point isn't the offers Dak turned down it's that Jerry knew the entire time exactly what it would take to lock him in but wasn't willing to do so.
- quarterbacks holding onto the ball for as long as possible
- offensive targets getting down field as far as possible
You can't beat up the quarterback, you can't get physical with route runners before the ball gets there, and you can't punish the target when he gets the ball.
I think there's a place for quick hits and RAC, but you're playing slow pitch softball against big leaguers if you can't sit back, understand what the defense is discuising, and throw the ball down field.
It's so much damn easier to do that this era. It's a sin not to.
agree - which is why you don't settle on a big multi-year contract for a qb who doesn't have the vision/poise to threaten every inch of the field on every play and extend the time defenses need to defend if necessary. Mahomes/Wilson/Burrow/Rodgers fit that description best (Brady/Stafford too just with less mobility). Herbert and Allen have physical tools beyond that list and aren't far off the other stuff if at all, while showing steady improvements each year so far. It's a pretty big drop off to the next guy after that group (not counting watson only bc it's been 2 years since he played).
that's why the Dak extension was, and the Kyler/Lamar extensions are, not easy decisions for those respective teams. the $ cost is the same as the top group despite more flaws.
i also think at some point the pendulum is going to swing with the rules and they are going to let DBs get a little more handsy because teams are only going to keep leaning into these spread concepts even beyond where they are now. The same way air raid offenses have proliferated in CFB. Daboll wasn't my first choice for coach but i do think getting an offensive mind that understands that was a key strategic win. Especially one with a track record of developing 1 of the names above.