I think we're about to see a type of offensive system that is at the cutting edge of the NFL.
Whether the QB can handle it is a different subject, but the mix of what Daboll did in Buffalo, Kafka's experience in KC, and the skill set of newly acquired Robinson to go along with Toney, I just get the sense we're going into unchartered for Giants fans.
I also think we're going to see Saquon's pass receptions #s to approach his rookie season numbers (if he stays healthy and/or doesn't get traded in season).
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In comment 15706507 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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But I was 18 years old back then and even I knew that Giants team in 05 limped into the playoffs with big injuries.
Also not all good or even great players play well in their first ever playoffs appearances. It's a thing that people know about but choose to forget when it's convenient. Fans were more eager to be mad that they lost than deal with reality.
TTH honest question for you, in year 4 after throwing 2 touchdowns to Darren Sharper and 4 ints total, what % of the fanbase do you estimate was behind Eli?
That's a different context from year 2 playoffs to year 4.
And I get why fans would have been mad year 4. Few will remember this but Coughlin himself told the story of Eli being emotional about his performance and wanting to be better. He wasn't living up to his potential.
The difference is Eli was a consensus top 5 pick with an illustrious college career. Much was expected and he wasn't living up to it with enough consistency to win with.
Jones hasn't accomplished anything at any level to believe he's secretly an NFL qb you can win with.
He wasn't a particularly good college QB so what is there to hang your hat on? The hope now is Daboll can prop him up like McVay did for Goff with scheme and surrounding talent.
the question for this year is who is the best option? not is he worth an extension.
i'd also disagree that Jones hasn't done anything, he's put up some consistently solid numbers in a terrible offense/environment.
i see him as miami Tannehill right now which was ironically who many comp'd him to coming out of duke -- and that's not meant to say he should be extended, Miami probably made the right decision letting Tannehill walk. what they didn't do was a good job of using him to the best of his ability before he walked. had they, they would have gotten more for him when he walked and been in better position to effectively find a replacement instead of stepping backwards to a collection of players who have been worse than Tannehill.
Why is that important? Because people keep hanging in to the hope that Jones will “emerge” in his 4th pro year. But a late blooming QB hasnt emerged in his 4th season in recent pro history (since the loosening of the coverage rules, new CBA). There’s literally no precedent for it happening. Prescott certainly doesn’t support the hope.
If Dak was a franchise QB as you say in 2019 when the article I posted was written after his 3rd season, why did they not extend him for 2 years until May 2021?
Do you not see any difference in his performance years 1-3 with Garrett's offense and years 4-6 with Kellen Moore?
I was told last night nobody runs the ball like this anymore. GoTerps.
What is missing here is how much this changes the outcome for a young QB. When you are sitting in 2nd and 5 with high frequency it makes the job so much easier. PA is actually a threat. Simplifies reads. Forces defense to account for both run/pass which changes how they cover/rush etc. Wr's/TE's have a easier path to getting open.
This was actually the plan that DG wanted as it is a tried and true formula for breaking in young QB's. It's the one Eli broke in with. It just was horribly executed.
I don't think Jones is long for the team but to say he has had anywhere close to the support that Dak or Eli had his first three years is pretty ignorant imv. Dak had two HOF's on his OL and a third who was a Pro Bowler.
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in his first three years were 77, 70, and 55.
His QBRs in years 4 and 5 were 72 and 73.
So, Prescott had more than established himself as a bonafide top ten QB by YR4.
wrong. he was considered an efficient game manager in a conservative Dallas offense with the OL and Zeke doing most of the heavy lifting.
he hadn't passed for more than 3800 yards in a season.
he hadn't thrown for more than 23 tds in a season.
his YPG were basically exactly where Jones' are for his career.
pre-Kellen Moore Dak was not a top 10 QB. See the article below from 2019. his first game under Kellen Moore in 2019 was when he lit up Bettcher's defense for like 4 touchdowns and 400 yards and from that point forward everything was different.
Your go-to stats are total passing yards, TDs, and YPG?? JFC, if you want to make it a fair fight at least come with a gun, not a knife.
In his first three years, Dak's QBR ranking versus the rest of the league were: 3rd, 4th, 17th.
And in his fourth year, he was 4th.
QBR isn't a flawless stat, but it tries to smooth out an assortment of variables based on game circumstances. It's a helluva lot more reliable than YPG, total passing yards, and TDs.
In YPA, another solid metric, Dak was in the top six in two of his first four years. The other two years, he was below 17th.
On average, blending QBR and YPA, I think a reasonable view would conclude that Dak was a top ten QB.
As for Jones negotiations, he negotiates hard. Good for him. Although he does have a tendency to cave.
This year, Dak finished 11th in QBR, 10th in YPA and 7th in AY/A. So, it seems his early work suggesting a top ten QB have held up moving forward...
I was told last night nobody runs the ball like this anymore. GoTerps.
What is missing here is how much this changes the outcome for a young QB. When you are sitting in 2nd and 5 with high frequency it makes the job so much easier. PA is actually a threat. Simplifies reads. Forces defense to account for both run/pass which changes how they cover/rush etc. Wr's/TE's have a easier path to getting open.
This was actually the plan that DG wanted as it is a tried and true formula for breaking in young QB's. It's the one Eli broke in with. It just was horribly executed.
I don't think Jones is long for the team but to say he has had anywhere close to the support that Dak or Eli had his first three years is pretty ignorant imv. Dak had two HOF's on his OL and a third who was a Pro Bowler.
You said you wanted to see the running backs get 28-32 carries a game. I showed you that only the league leader reached that number last year.
Yes, you were told. What you do with that information is up to you.
Teams that are getting 28-32 attempts averaging 135 yards or more/game with QB’s in their first 4 years have very favorable playoff probabilities. Football 101.
Information is also good. Unfortunately yours doesn’t change history regarding this.
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In comment 15706569 bw in dc said:
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in his first three years were 77, 70, and 55.
His QBRs in years 4 and 5 were 72 and 73.
So, Prescott had more than established himself as a bonafide top ten QB by YR4.
wrong. he was considered an efficient game manager in a conservative Dallas offense with the OL and Zeke doing most of the heavy lifting.
he hadn't passed for more than 3800 yards in a season.
he hadn't thrown for more than 23 tds in a season.
his YPG were basically exactly where Jones' are for his career.
pre-Kellen Moore Dak was not a top 10 QB. See the article below from 2019. his first game under Kellen Moore in 2019 was when he lit up Bettcher's defense for like 4 touchdowns and 400 yards and from that point forward everything was different.
Your go-to stats are total passing yards, TDs, and YPG?? JFC, if you want to make it a fair fight at least come with a gun, not a knife.
In his first three years, Dak's QBR ranking versus the rest of the league were: 3rd, 4th, 17th.
And in his fourth year, he was 4th.
QBR isn't a flawless stat, but it tries to smooth out an assortment of variables based on game circumstances. It's a helluva lot more reliable than YPG, total passing yards, and TDs.
In YPA, another solid metric, Dak was in the top six in two of his first four years. The other two years, he was below 17th.
On average, blending QBR and YPA, I think a reasonable view would conclude that Dak was a top ten QB.
As for Jones negotiations, he negotiates hard. Good for him. Although he does have a tendency to cave.
This year, Dak finished 11th in QBR, 10th in YPA and 7th in AY/A. So, it seems his early work suggesting a top ten QB have held up moving forward...
Go post this narrative on the Dallas website and you will get eaten alive. Most of their fans will tell that Dak for all his grand stats never shows up in the big games and has padded stats. He does not make all the throws, has a questionable arm strength, cannot read defenses and needs everything to be perfect to win. Sound familiar. He has won nothing in 6 years.
bw is a broken clock that's not even right twice a day. notice there's no answer as to why Dak was a franchise QB in 2019 but they didn't extend him for more than 2 years (and after he suffered a pretty gruesome injury no less).
But they are 53-32 with him at the helm. So, he's doing something right as Dallas has five winning seasons out of six with him as the starter. And that's a bit misleading because he only played five games in 2020 before he got hurt against NYG in Dallas.
He's not Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Allen, Wilson, Herbert. But he's right at that top ten threshold. He makes plays and is a dual threat.
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Go post this narrative on the Dallas website and you will get eaten alive. Most of their fans will tell that Dak for all his grand stats never shows up in the big games and has padded stats. He does not make all the throws, has a questionable arm strength, cannot read defenses and needs everything to be perfect to win. Sound familiar. He has won nothing in 6 years.
bw is a broken clock that's not even right twice a day. notice there's no answer as to why Dak was a franchise QB in 2019 but they didn't extend him for more than 2 years (and after he suffered a pretty gruesome injury no less).
I’d be happy with once a day to start. Don’t expect a answer. He just moves to a different thread.
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In comment 15706781 joe48 said:
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Go post this narrative on the Dallas website and you will get eaten alive. Most of their fans will tell that Dak for all his grand stats never shows up in the big games and has padded stats. He does not make all the throws, has a questionable arm strength, cannot read defenses and needs everything to be perfect to win. Sound familiar. He has won nothing in 6 years.
bw is a broken clock that's not even right twice a day. notice there's no answer as to why Dak was a franchise QB in 2019 but they didn't extend him for more than 2 years (and after he suffered a pretty gruesome injury no less).
I’d be happy with once a day to start. Don’t expect a answer. He just moves to a different thread.
honestly it would be a favor i don't know why i waste the time i do.
for fun though BW claims Dak was a top 10 QB in March 2019 off the following season (his 3rd):
Dak - 67%, 3885 yards, 22 tds, 8 ints, 7.4 y/a, 96 qb rtg, 55 qbr
QB A - 66%, 4,299 yards, 21 tds, 11 ints, 7.5 y/a, 92 qb rtg, 49 qbr
QB B - 62%, 3,000 yards, 24 tds, 12 ints, 6.6 y/a, 87 qb rtg, 55 qbr
do we think BW considered QB A or QB B top 10 QBs? i'll only offer 1 hint, neither player had the dallas OL in front of them.
And the stats, well the ones should matter, bear that out. Especially when Dak got back on track in 2019.
Of course, I'm dealing with posters who think total passing yards and passing yards per game are reliable indicators.
Which means Jameis Winston was the best QB in 2018 when he passed for 5K+ yards and 320 YPG. Do you want to stand by that, btw?
And the stats, well the ones should matter, bear that out. Especially when Dak got back on track in 2019.
Of course, I'm dealing with posters who think total passing yards and passing yards per game are reliable indicators.
Which means Jameis Winston was the best QB in 2018 when he passed for 5K+ yards and 320 YPG. Do you want to stand by that, btw?
he may have been if he didn't also throw 30 interceptions. notice i list interceptions and all the other important statistical inputs used to evaluate QBs for the last 50 years as opposed to the 1 opaque stat your fond of.
as you project your impairments it reminds me you've still forgotten to answer a very simple question - if the total body of work was top 10 QB, why did it take Dallas 2.5 years to extend him? why let a franchise QB play out his final year on his rookie deal, just as the nyg are doing right now with Jones?
he may have been if he didn't also throw 30 interceptions. notice i list interceptions and all the other important statistical inputs used to evaluate QBs for the last 50 years as opposed to the 1 opaque stat your fond of.
as you project your impairments it reminds me you've still forgotten to answer a very simple question - if the total body of work was top 10 QB, why did it take Dallas 2.5 years to extend him? why let a franchise QB play out his final year on his rookie deal, just as the nyg are doing right now with Jones?
Stats like QBR, YPA, AY/A are much better measuring sticks because they are aggregated numbers that take so many variables into account. Perfect? No. But they are better than ancient stats like total yards. I mean, you also referenced Pass Rating. What a junk measurement that is.
I don't know why it took Jerry so long to reach a deal with Dak. Jerry was playing hardball. I feel pretty comfortable taking the position, however, that Jerry missed an opportunity to get Dak cheaper because - I believe - Dak decided to scrap negotiations, gamble on himself, and going into 2020 by accepting the franchise tag.
But how has it played out? Is Dak a top ten QB or not?
Jerry can be a lot of things but he knows OL play and he knows what big time QB play looks like.
Jerry can be a lot of things but he knows OL play and he knows what big time QB play looks like.
And when the dust settled, Jerry gave Dak 4yrs/$160M @ $125M guaranteed.
Nice regular season QB with a very talented team. Still waiting if he becomes one who elevates his team in the playoffs.
But how has it played out? Is Dak a top ten QB or not?
since Kellen Moore of course but before that he was not. which is kind of the entire point. that's why Jerry didn't pay him 30m per year and let his rookie contract expire but then tagged him at 31m twice and ultimately extended him at 40m.
Nice regular season QB with a very talented team. Still waiting if he becomes one who elevates his team in the playoffs.
correct - after year 3 Jerry wasn't in a much different posture than Schoen right now since Dak didn't have a 5YO. They weren't sure about him even though he'd been better than Jones. They promoted Moore, modernized the offense, and Dak started throwing for 5k+ yards and then the decision was obvious.
Yep, he was a putrid 4-8 but:
- In 12 games he was sacked 38 times
- In 1/2 of those games, he was sacked 4+ times (he was under duress constantly)
- In 7 of the 12 games, the Giants RBs rushed for fewer than 55yds...that's really bad~
- The Giants averaged 24pts (w/DJ as starter) per game with very little support from the OL or the RBs
- The Giants defense gave up 28+ points per game (30th in NFL)
- During this season, he threw over 35x per game
- Since his rookie year, the NYGs have gotten worse. Maybe they get right together?
At the end of the day, the math suggests that there is something to work with.
I don't think that he'll get past 2022 with the Giants, but I am not unhappy, especially given the circumstances of the timing of the new era, that Jones will be the QB in 2022.
I think Shurmur knows how to hide a QBs flaws and get max production.
In retrospect, I think Joe Judge was way in over his head and also created a mess with offense staff. It was pretty clear to me he didn’t respect Garrett, and he filled the staff with his goofball friends.
The most optimism I can muster for Jones is he had a few big games when he played for a coach who could cover his flaws.
I don’t think that’s a championship formula, but maybe Daboll can do something similar.
Hopefully it's fun to watch.
But they are 53-32 with him at the helm. So, he's doing something right as Dallas has five winning seasons out of six with him as the starter. And that's a bit misleading because he only played five games in 2020 before he got hurt against NYG in Dallas.
He's not Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Allen, Wilson, Herbert. But he's right at that top ten threshold. He makes plays and is a dual threat.
He plays on a far more talented team. You left that part out in the DJ hit piece. That is something that some of DJ critics leave out. Anyway this is a make or break year and the Giant organization owns the QB mess because they failed.
The evaluation is if he can grow to handle those type of situations at a higher cost which will make it that much harder to have a supporting team around him on offense and defense. That decision may be easy. Jones may still make it complex and they will have to measure it against getting a alternative in the draft imv.
The evaluation is if he can grow to handle those type of situations at a higher cost which will make it that much harder to have a supporting team around him on offense and defense. That decision may be easy. Jones may still make it complex and they will have to measure it against getting a alternative in the draft imv.
I agree that if he's retained as a starter he will be >$20M; but he's not making $50M and while it's great to have a Rodgers/Mahomes type of guy; you can't afford to keep your top players long term (Adams & Hill). I think what Daboll and JS are thinking is to build an offense which makes it easy on the QB. You may not need a Rodgers/Mahomes type of guy if you have enough weapons around a solid QB.
Meanwhile, Jones has never shown the ability Dak showed earlier on and the stats display that, too.
So saying Jones can “emerge” like Prescott is patent bullshit.
Now on to Kirk Cousin’s early career, which is even more damaging to the “DJ as late bloomer” thesis.
Meanwhile, Jones has never shown the ability Dak showed earlier on and the stats display that, too.
So saying Jones can “emerge” like Prescott is patent bullshit.
Now on to Kirk Cousin’s early career, which is even more damaging to the “DJ as late bloomer” thesis.
What is bullshit is not recognizing that Dallas had two future HOF OL on the team and a Center who was regarding as one of the best before injuries did him in (and potential third HOF type player). They also were above average at the other two spots on the line. Then while not what he was a HOF TE who still was a very good blocker and reliable target.
Jones his first three years had.........? I am not even the biggest Jones fan but to say he has had close to what Dak did is really short sighted imv. Dak's situation was one of the best I have seen for a QB to walk into.
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is they have to evaluate Jones as a QB who is about to become very expensive. So I expect some level of balance between coddling him along (team support) while also putting him in situations to see if he can handle more complex situations.
The evaluation is if he can grow to handle those type of situations at a higher cost which will make it that much harder to have a supporting team around him on offense and defense. That decision may be easy. Jones may still make it complex and they will have to measure it against getting a alternative in the draft imv.
I agree that if he's retained as a starter he will be >$20M; but he's not making $50M and while it's great to have a Rodgers/Mahomes type of guy; you can't afford to keep your top players long term (Adams & Hill). I think what Daboll and JS are thinking is to build an offense which makes it easy on the QB. You may not need a Rodgers/Mahomes type of guy if you have enough weapons around a solid QB.
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But I was 18 years old back then and even I knew that Giants team in 05 limped into the playoffs with big injuries.
Also not all good or even great players play well in their first ever playoffs appearances. It's a thing that people know about but choose to forget when it's convenient. Fans were more eager to be mad that they lost than deal with reality.
TTH honest question for you, in year 4 after throwing 2 touchdowns to Darren Sharper and 4 ints total, what % of the fanbase do you estimate was behind Eli?
I was at that game. I sat in the end zone 2 rows back dead center. I was pretty in line with Eli on every snap. When I was behind him I could see his helmet locking on to receivers for what seemed like forever. On two of the INT's I screamed DON'T THROW IT HE'S GONNA PICK IT!!!
I knew it was going to be a long day when Tavaris Jackson's first pass was a long bomb for a TD. Brutal day.
Tannehill will have the lowest AAV of any starting QB on a 2nd contract next year at 29.5M, and that’s an old deal at this point.
If Jones has a good year, he’s got no incentive to sign a sub-market deal.
His agent would advise him to force the Giants’ hand and get franchised, or sign a prove it deal somewhere.
Meanwhile, Jones has never shown the ability Dak showed earlier on and the stats display that, too.
So saying Jones can “emerge” like Prescott is patent bullshit.
Now on to Kirk Cousin’s early career, which is even more damaging to the “DJ as late bloomer” thesis.
what's being mischaracterized is that anyone is predicting Jones will "emerge" like prescott. what's being compared is the fact that after 3 years his own team was just as uncertain about whether or not he was worth extending - and that's not debatable. It's fact that they had a 2.5 year lame duck period from the end of the 2018 season to just last May where they made him earn an extension.
none of us can predict the future but there are some that refuse to look back at what's already happened with any degree of rationality. when Kellen Moore took over Dak's output exploded in the 2019 and 2020 seasons and after he proved it not once but twice Dallas made him a 40m/year a QB. Again that's not opinion that's just what happened.
none of that is a prediction the same will happen for Jones. it's possible to acknowledge something within a range of possibility without predicting it or even thinking it likely. schoen and daboll have put some skin in the game that it's a possibility or else jones wouldn't still be on the roster and they certainly wouldn't have already declared him starter.
could not disagree more on this. Paying the Wentz/Garoppolo/Cousins tier of QBs whatever that costs going forward ($30m?) is the equivalent of a QB sneak on 2nd down.
if they move on from Jones it will rightfully be for the best rookie they can get their hands on with traits that fit their offense. Taylor's contract indicates that's the plan B if Jones moves on.
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I agree that if he's retained as a starter he will be >$20M; but he's not making $50M and while it's great to have a Rodgers/Mahomes type of guy; you can't afford to keep your top players long term (Adams & Hill). I think what Daboll and JS are thinking is to build an offense which makes it easy on the QB. You may not need a Rodgers/Mahomes type of guy if you have enough weapons around a solid QB.
Tannehill will have the lowest AAV of any starting QB on a 2nd contract next year at 29.5M, and that’s an old deal at this point.
If Jones has a good year, he’s got no incentive to sign a sub-market deal.
His agent would advise him to force the Giants’ hand and get franchised, or sign a prove it deal somewhere.
Agreed but that was after a Pro Bowl season and a AFC Championship performance. If 2022 DJ is a Pro Bowler and leads this team to the NFC Championship Game I think we would all be on board for a 4/$120M. That's the same range as Goff, Jimmy G, Wentz, Carr, etc. He's worth nothing near that today, but if he replicated Tannehill's 2019 then his value is probably $28-30M/yr. If he has a good enough year for JS & Daboll to keep him as the starter but not a Pro Bowl or a playoff birth, I doubt he gets more than what his 5th year option would have been worth.
TTH honest question for you, in year 4 after throwing 2 touchdowns to Darren Sharper and 4 ints total, what % of the fanbase do you estimate was behind Eli?
I was at that game. I sat in the end zone 2 rows back dead center. I was pretty in line with Eli on every snap. When I was behind him I could see his helmet locking on to receivers for what seemed like forever. On two of the INT's I screamed DON'T THROW IT HE'S GONNA PICK IT!!!
I knew it was going to be a long day when Tavaris Jackson's first pass was a long bomb for a TD. Brutal day.
People forget how many brutal days there were within the first 8 years of Coughlin (even though they ended up with 2 trophies and its possibly the best 8 year stretch in franchise history). the NFL is a hard business.
I think it’s silly, but if they were to, I’d go with JG. He’s at least established a floor of winning.
In reality there are two ways to win — draft a high skill QB or acquire a top veteran.
That’s the scenario where Jones has no incentive to sign a multi-year deal at ~20M/YR. The franchise tender is ~31M, and the floor for an OK starter is 30M.
Why would he lock himself into a commitment at below market value?
I think it’s silly, but if they were to, I’d go with JG. He’s at least established a floor of winning.
In reality there are two ways to win — draft a high skill QB or acquire a top veteran.
Garoppolo is imo fool's gold. He has some games where he looks great and others where he looks incompetent. Too unpredictable. I would never want him, Wentz, or Cousins for that reason.
QBs like Carr or Tannehill or Lamar at least have things they do well consistently so you can possibly build a team in their style that emphasizes their strengths and maybe give yourself a chance to win big by wrong footing better teams if everything clicks. Kind of like Cam in Carolina and even Eli to a degree.
I think it’s silly, but if they were to, I’d go with JG. He’s at least established a floor of winning.
In reality there are two ways to win — draft a high skill QB or acquire a top veteran.
I believe we're about to see a new offensive wave in the NFL which places less emphasis on the QB. If you look at what the Dolphins and others are doing, they believe that they can have a top offense with a "system QB". Create mismatches across the field and move the ball with quick reads and misdirection to get playmakers in 1-1 situations. That doesn't mean you can win with a bad QB, but I think offenses are evolving to value playmakers near the same level as QB's. The WR goldrush in the draft & FA shows how much value executives are starting to place on playmakers; if you pay WR's this much it is inevitable that mid-tier QB's on 2nd contracts will probably be devalued.
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If he has a good enough year for JS & Daboll to keep him as the starter but not a Pro Bowl or a playoff birth, I doubt he gets more than what his 5th year option would have been worth.
That’s the scenario where Jones has no incentive to sign a multi-year deal at ~20M/YR. The franchise tender is ~31M, and the floor for an OK starter is 30M.
Why would he lock himself into a commitment at below market value?
Franchise tag is not market value - his value is based on what other teams would pay him on the open market. What teams do you see paying DJ >$25M if he has a good year next year? Seattle, NO, Steelers, Carolina? If any of those teams are in the market for a QB next offseason they'll probably look to the draft. I don't think DJ has that much leverage unless he pulls a Tannehill '19
consistent poise, decision making, escapability are going to be more in demand than some traditional traits. Call it the russell wilson-ification of the QB position. but that wont lead to the position being devalued as those players are still the difference between winning and losing.
bryce young and mac jones at bama are imo the future prototype to where things are going. on the hoof there are more "talented" players but Saban has started honing in on QBs who are elite at making the right decisions consistently and distributing the ball to their playmakers like a good basketball point guard. Prospects coming up now play 7 on 7 practically year round before HS even starts - those are the skills they are getting their 10k hours on before they get to the NFL.
Assuming Jones has a good not great season, and the Giants offer him in the range of 4/80M, he's better off:
1) hoping he gets franchised
2) signing a prove it deal elsewhere and establishing he's worth the 30M floor above average starters make
Jameis Winston, who's older and has lots of warts, off an injury signed for 14 AAV. Jones would be better going that route in his career.
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But how has it played out? Is Dak a top ten QB or not?
since Kellen Moore of course but before that he was not. which is kind of the entire point. that's why Jerry didn't pay him 30m per year and let his rookie contract expire but then tagged him at 31m twice and ultimately extended him at 40m.
Unfortunately, you don't know what you are talking about.
It was reported in multiple sources that going into the 2019 season Dak turned down the Jones's offer of $30M per because he wanted more. And that would have made him - at the time - one of the highest paid QBs at the time.
Instead, Team Dak was willing to take the FT, and gamble they could get a higher number. Which they did.
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I agree Dallas and Dak have come up short in the playoffs.
But they are 53-32 with him at the helm. So, he's doing something right as Dallas has five winning seasons out of six with him as the starter. And that's a bit misleading because he only played five games in 2020 before he got hurt against NYG in Dallas.
He's not Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Allen, Wilson, Herbert. But he's right at that top ten threshold. He makes plays and is a dual threat.
He plays on a far more talented team. You left that part out in the DJ hit piece. That is something that some of DJ critics leave out. Anyway this is a make or break year and the Giant organization owns the QB mess because they failed.
You do realize these two things can be true at the same time - Dak is a talented player and he has played on a talented team.
On the end of that, a team can be poor and so can the QB.
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Franchise tag is not market value - his value is based on what other teams would pay him on the open market. What teams do you see paying DJ >$25M if he has a good year next year? Seattle, NO, Steelers, Carolina? If any of those teams are in the market for a QB next offseason they'll probably look to the draft. I don't think DJ has that much leverage unless he pulls a Tannehill '19
Assuming Jones has a good not great season, and the Giants offer him in the range of 4/80M, he's better off:
1) hoping he gets franchised
2) signing a prove it deal elsewhere and establishing he's worth the 30M floor above average starters make
Jameis Winston, who's older and has lots of warts, off an injury signed for 14 AAV. Jones would be better going that route in his career.
I agree with this. It would be in his best interest to just play on the tag or test the market off a good year then sign some precedent-setting midrange QB deal. I do think one of those funky deals with a juiced up AAV but clear outs for the team after year 1 or 2 could be in play though. He'd still be better off taking his chances on the tag or seeking out a more player friendly structure elsewhere but maybe he's sick of changing coaches and sees it in his best interest over the long term.