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More about the Giants releasing G Wes Martin

YANKEE28 : 5/13/2022 8:23 am
Following the news that the Giants waived G Wes Martin Monday, we learned about 36 hours later that a waiver claim was put in by Jacksonville, and that Martin was now a Jaguar.

What wasn't widely mentioned in almost any reports was that the LA Chargers and the Washington Commanders had also put in claims. Because of their poor record, the League awarded Martin to the Jaguars, though 3 teams wanted him.

Giants fans saw Martin play last year and lets just say it wasn't pretty.

Why would 3 teams put in a claim for him?

Perhaps there is no better example of just had bad the current shortage of OLs in the NFL really is. Its a major problem that effects most teams in the League, not just the Giants.

The Giants have made some significant investments this offseason in search of OLs. Certainly Roy Mbaeteka and Marcus McKethan come to mind as players that could develop in the future, but likely can't contribute in 2022. Seeing what happened this week with Martin makes it clear that if you waive an OL, there is a high chance that player will not make it thru waivers and join your Practice Squad.

For me the solution is to determine at the end of camp which single player has the highest potential to develop. Let that player make your roster as your 9th OL. We know most NFL teams keep only 8 OLs on the final 53, but with the current shortage of OLs, that player is likely lost.

Last year we saw Joe Judge keep 2 fullbacks, a rugby player that only played Specials, and traded a 2023 6th round pick just to acquire another "special teams only" player. Surely the new management can find a way to build a final 53 roster that includes 9 OLs.

The shortage of NFL OLinemen is real. The Giants have spent the offseason searching and adding to their OL. When you read about players being waived throughout the League, it seems 90% pass thru waivers without a claim. The exception is OLs.

What happened with Martin this week provides a crystal clear view of just how thin the talent is at those OL positions. The Giants need to not only decide who are the best 5 OL starters, but also strategize how to protect the roster if they have a player with a strong ability to develop further down the road.
As I've said countless times,  
robbieballs2003 : 5/13/2022 8:28 am : link
ever OL position in today's NFL is a premium position. People look at exceptions and say you can get guards cheap. Or KC fixed their OL in one year. Well, of course KC improved their OL because their OL the year before was garbage but the KC offense was really bad early last year. It took time to click. Every single team in the NFL can use better OL. The team with probably the best group from top to bottom is Philly.
Y28  
Chris684 : 5/13/2022 8:30 am : link
Great post. This is why with 2 picks in the top 7, it would have been malpractice, in my opinion, to walk away from those picks without one of Neal or Ekwonu and to a lesser extent, Cross.

It's getting harder to field a quality offensive line as these guys are seeing less and less actual physical reps on the field at the college level and in camps and practices.
even  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/13/2022 8:30 am : link
stranger was that Rysen John got claimed.

But good point Yankee... it also shows our OL situation has immediately improved.
That's a good point and even 10 OL isn't out of the question  
BillT : 5/13/2022 8:38 am : link
10 OL, 3 TE, 6 WR, 2 QB, 4 RB/FB is 25 on offense. 6 DL, 9 LB, 10 DB is 25 on defense. 3 on ST is 53. So, there is room for keeping developmental players.
I've said it before and I'll say it again...  
Dnew15 : 5/13/2022 8:39 am : link
Wes Martin is getting scooped up by teams but 2 of the Giants 5 starters from last season Billy Price and Nate Solder are still not signed.

Oh..and by the way...Matt Peart couldn't beat out Solder.

That OL was horrendous.
Good post.  
Klaatu : 5/13/2022 8:40 am : link
It says to me that teams should be drafting OL every year. Maybe not always with premium picks, maybe sometimes with UDFA's only, but they should keep as many in the pipeline as they can.
I liked the approach the Giants have taken  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/13/2022 8:41 am : link
they have increased the competition. Next year I hope they again add more talent to the pipeline after round 2.

Always seek to replace someone on the roster whether a starter or depth player.

Hopefully this OL is really good.
In light of Yankee's Post  
HMunster : 5/13/2022 8:42 am : link
It's extremely telling that three of our Offensive Linemen from last year, Nate Solder, Billy Price, and Kyle Murphy, remain unemployed.
We’ve upgraded a lot, at least on paper, imv.  
Big Blue '56 : 5/13/2022 8:50 am : link
DJ can finally smile
So is Roy Mbaeteka an international exception or not?  
George from PA : 5/13/2022 8:51 am : link
He will not be ready for prime time....I hope they can protect him without keeping him on roster.
No question that drafting Neal  
gersh : 5/13/2022 8:54 am : link
is a huge step to fixing this OL. However, as said, the key and plan is clearly to develop guys who were not high first round picks.
Other than the former Colt we signed, the other 2 positions C (Feliciano 1 year deal) and G, need to be developed.

Good teams are filled out with lower draft picks. Guard and Center are definitely positions that are best filled that way.
Regardless, if Neal and Thomas are the bookends for the next 10 years - we can’t spend on other OL and keep a balanced roster.
Good stuff  
UberAlias : 5/13/2022 8:54 am : link
As always.
RE: No question that drafting Neal  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/13/2022 9:01 am : link
In comment 15707300 gersh said:
Quote:
is a huge step to fixing this OL. However, as said, the key and plan is clearly to develop guys who were not high first round picks.
Other than the former Colt we signed, the other 2 positions C (Feliciano 1 year deal) and G, need to be developed.

Good teams are filled out with lower draft picks. Guard and Center are definitely positions that are best filled that way.
Regardless, if Neal and Thomas are the bookends for the next 10 years - we can’t spend on other OL and keep a balanced roster.


I generally agree with you line of thought. If they reset the QB position it gives them more time to allow the drafting to catch up but your vision is best for long term competitiveness.
How far has the Giants OL come this off-season?  
Shecky : 5/13/2022 9:10 am : link
How many starters on the Giants OL for 2921 are still unemployed from March?

Yesterday now we are cutting an OL that is not just getting claimed, but by three times.

My how times have changed!!!!

RE: So is Roy Mbaeteka an international exception or not?  
BillT : 5/13/2022 9:10 am : link
In comment 15707298 George from PA said:
Quote:
He will not be ready for prime time....I hope they can protect him without keeping him on roster.

My understanding was that he is not. I could be wrong but they signed him to a multi year deal and I understood that meant he’s not an international exception.
And yet  
Johnny5 : 5/13/2022 9:12 am : link
2 starters that Schoen/Daboll cut are still teamless... lol [MAD AS HELL]
Do you miss me yet?!  
Spider43 : 5/13/2022 9:21 am : link

Great  
AcidTest : 5/13/2022 9:33 am : link
post. Totally agree. We need to prioritize OL when roster building. Carrying a ninth most years is more important than have an extra player at almost any other position.
Great post! But this quote triggered me  
sb from NYT Forum : 5/13/2022 9:36 am : link
Quote:
Last year we saw Joe Judge keep 2 fullbacks, a rugby player that only played Specials, and traded a 2023 6th round pick just to acquire another "special teams only" player.


My lord Joe Judge was a regular jackass.
It also highlights  
JonC : 5/13/2022 9:42 am : link
how difficult and unlikely it is to "fix" an OL in one draft or offseason.
Question for Y28 ...  
Spider56 : 5/13/2022 10:16 am : link
I always enjoy your informative, objective & balanced posts. Thank you.

Question ref Roy M ... can you explain more on why Big Roy does not qualify as an international exemption? And if the Giants had an option to this in the way they signed him? I

It seems he would be the perfect example of why the program was created and certainly be a candidate to be protected for a couple of years as he developed. If the Giants did knowingly sign him in such a way that voided this option, maybe they feel he’s further along in the picture ??? Cheers.

Good posts here.  
mittenedman : 5/13/2022 10:18 am : link
You can't help but notice they've brought in some guys with interesting development potential. Among the situations I'm interested in:

*Lemieux vs. Ezeudu at LG. Terrific battle. Almost identical athletically, and both are the type of guys who are almost impossible to keep out of your lineup. I wouldn't be surprised if Ezeudu moves to C either, because of that.

*Mbaeteka, McKethan and Baer. Legit developmental types. Baer has plans of being the starting C! You've got to at least be a little bit intrigued by all 3 of these guys.

On top of that, they've got experienced depth like Peart (who I still like as a backup swing T), Max Garcia & Bredeson. I thought Sale's public comments on Peart were bush league last year, he's back where he belongs in the college game.
Spider56  
YANKEE28 : 5/13/2022 10:22 am : link
my understanding is that only 8 NFL teams a year are granted a 91st roster spot for an international player.

The Giants are not one of the 8 teams this year.

Regarding Platzgummer, the League granted all prior teams with the same international players slot (rollover) an extra year. My guess-because of COVID.

Some on this site have mentioned that Platzgummer could be cut and the international exemption be given to Big Roy instead. That is not an option.
Still need that BIG WR  
Carl in CT : 5/13/2022 10:26 am : link
I hope they fired all the trainers. Our players need to do something else to help with injuries.
Jon  
Carl in CT : 5/13/2022 10:29 am : link
KC did it last year. Fixed the whole OL in one year. Doesn’t happen much. Opinions some here rated A. Thomas the worst of the four tackles. Jets guy look liked he busted and Cleveland guy been so so. Is he up to second.
It's a scarcity thing  
AcesUp : 5/13/2022 10:32 am : link
That drives up OL value imo. Also their snap share (typically 100%) and longevity contribute as well. Unless they develop joint or back issues, the good ones tend to perform at a high level into their 3rd contracts. I do think they're underrated in the value discussions for that reason.

That said. If we connect on Neal and Thomas continues to improve/stay healthy, that affords the Giants the luxury of trying to identify interior guys later in the draft. That doesn't mean you can't take one earlier but you can safely lower the priority on that position imo. You do need to apply a volume approach though, which is where Gettleman was severely lacking. He simply did not draft enough OL over his 4 drafts. He took some big swings to plug holes and a couple of midround guys (not nearly enough) then just assumed it was fixed without creating depth or competition. I think we focused way too much on STs in Day 3 and didn't take enough developmental OL talent.

I'm hoping one of this year's guards or our young incumbents emerge as reliable starting options for next year. Glowinski and Feliciano are bandaids, so you need to develop behind them.
Big Roy  
Rudy5757 : 5/13/2022 10:43 am : link
May come up with an injury late in camp. I think he needs another year, but if thats not the case and if he shows anything in camp he will be on the final 53 somehow imo. His measurements are just too good to give up on. Better him than Peart
RE: Big Roy  
Payasdaddy : 5/13/2022 11:34 am : link
In comment 15707462 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
May come up with an injury late in camp. I think he needs another year, but if thats not the case and if he shows anything in camp he will be on the final 53 somehow imo. His measurements are just too good to give up on. Better him than Peart


That would make the most sense. Hope would be give him a yr to acclimate, 2nd yr he hopefully develops and makes team as 3rd OT
if he actually looks good, u got an interesting dilemma with A Thomas if he can’t stay healthy. Way ahead of myself and unlikely, but sure would be nice problem to have.
RE: Spider56  
Spider56 : 5/13/2022 11:37 am : link
In comment 15707431 YANKEE28 said:
Quote:
my understanding is that only 8 NFL teams a year are granted a 91st roster spot for an international player.

The Giants are not one of the 8 teams this year.

Regarding Platzgummer, the League granted all prior teams with the same international players slot (rollover) an extra year. My guess-because of COVID.

Some on this site have mentioned that Platzgummer could be cut and the international exemption be given to Big Roy instead. That is not an option.


Thank you sir.
Great post  
OdellBeckhamJr : 5/13/2022 12:12 pm : link
thank you Yankee
RE: I've said it before and I'll say it again...  
FStubbs : 5/13/2022 4:09 pm : link
In comment 15707285 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
Wes Martin is getting scooped up by teams but 2 of the Giants 5 starters from last season Billy Price and Nate Solder are still not signed.

Oh..and by the way...Matt Peart couldn't beat out Solder.

That OL was horrendous.


That sounds like the Giants didn't know what they had on the roster. Sounds like this guy should've been starting at some point last year.
RE: It's a scarcity thing  
FStubbs : 5/13/2022 4:12 pm : link
In comment 15707447 AcesUp said:
Quote:
That drives up OL value imo. Also their snap share (typically 100%) and longevity contribute as well. Unless they develop joint or back issues, the good ones tend to perform at a high level into their 3rd contracts. I do think they're underrated in the value discussions for that reason.

That said. If we connect on Neal and Thomas continues to improve/stay healthy, that affords the Giants the luxury of trying to identify interior guys later in the draft. That doesn't mean you can't take one earlier but you can safely lower the priority on that position imo. You do need to apply a volume approach though, which is where Gettleman was severely lacking. He simply did not draft enough OL over his 4 drafts. He took some big swings to plug holes and a couple of midround guys (not nearly enough) then just assumed it was fixed without creating depth or competition. I think we focused way too much on STs in Day 3 and didn't take enough developmental OL talent.

I'm hoping one of this year's guards or our young incumbents emerge as reliable starting options for next year. Glowinski and Feliciano are bandaids, so you need to develop behind them.


The bold right there, let me address it.

This is one of the reasons our OL got bad in the first place. Diehl and Snee hit the wall way earlier than you'd expect from offensive linemen. It seems like the team didn't move to truly replace them soon enough because they felt like "these guys should still have 3-4 more years of high level play left, this past year was just an aberration."
RE: Good posts here.  
ColHowPepper : 5/13/2022 4:39 pm : link
In comment 15707423 mittenedman said:
Quote:
...Among the situations I'm interested in:

*Lemieux vs. Ezeudu at LG. Terrific battle. Almost identical athletically, and both are the type of guys who are almost impossible to keep out of your lineup. I wouldn't be surprised if Ezeudu moves to C either, because of that.

mittened, difficult for me to reach same assessment that you do.
- we do not know status of Lemieux's rehab, whether he is limited in any way from stress on knee from football activity
- you are looking at last year's 5th rounder through last year's Staff's eyes; Dabs may not have him that high.
- Don't get me wrong: I thought Lemieux was instant improvement in the run game when he knocked Hernandez out of the LG position, but his pass pro was very shaky, and Daboll is a passing offense guy. Maybe if his scheme always tries to get the ball out within 3 seconds or less, it's less of an issue?
- among Ezeudu and the FA signings, Lemieux could be outside looking in.
RE: How far has the Giants OL come this off-season?  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/14/2022 7:10 am : link
In comment 15707323 Shecky said:
Quote:
How many starters on the Giants OL for 2921 are still unemployed from March?

Yesterday now we are cutting an OL that is not just getting claimed, but by three times.

My how times have changed!!!!

If this OL problem continues for 900 more years, I'm officially giving up on the Giants.
regarding 'likely' loss of OL at cut down time  
fkap : 5/14/2022 7:45 am : link
right now, it's pretty cheap to claim a waived player. Roster spots are fairly plentiful. Easy to grab one and check him out in camp. Come cut down time, though, claimed players have to go on the more limited season roster. Teams aren't going to be so quick to take a flier. So, cut players are more likely to make it through.

Obviously, if an OL has potential, extra consideration should be placed on keeping him on the roster. If there's a shortage, though, that probably means the bottom tier of them probably are limited on potential. As bad as last year's squad was, was there really anyone additional worth keeping?

Last year's allocation of roster spots show that keeping an extra OL can be done. Doesn't mean it should be done.
It is amazing how arrogant the powers that be were going  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/14/2022 9:02 am : link
into last season about the OL.
RE: Good post.  
Jimmy Googs : 5/14/2022 9:29 am : link
In comment 15707286 Klaatu said:
Quote:
It says to me that teams should be drafting OL every year. Maybe not always with premium picks, maybe sometimes with UDFA's only, but they should keep as many in the pipeline as they can.


Yep, every single year it needs some investment.

And maybe...just maybe, you wouldn't have to start every draft process with the desperation that a premium pick should really go to the broken OL.
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