I know he is not well liked among NYG fans. But he's clearly a top 10 Giant.
Who are you taking off that list for Tiki.
Gifford. Tiki dwarfs his stat wise. But again, Tiki was insulting towards Eli so he's forever a NYG pariah.
Stats aren't everything.
"He made eight Pro Bowl appearances and had five trips to the NFL Championship Game. Gifford's best season may have been 1956, when he won the league's Most Valuable Player Award and led the Giants to the NFL title over the Chicago Bears.[9]"
I'll back NYG22 on this. Tiki belongs in the top 10 all-time.
And yeah, if this takes away a little from the long-ago greats, so be it.
I don't care about how good they were. I never saw them play. They played in an era when football didn't resemble anything like today, and they had 12 teams (or even 10, in Mel Hein's day) in the entire league.
Mel Hein played in an era where there were 10 teams, including the Staten Island Stapletons, The Frankford Yellow Jackets, the Providence Steam Rollers, and the Portsmouth Spartans.
Most of these teams hardly had any black players.
So you know, I don't care. Good for you, you were great for your era that isn't relevant to the players or the game today.
Put Tiki Barber in Mel Hein's time and he would be considered the Babe Ruth of football, if anyone even gave him a chance to play. Actually, at Tiki's size they probably would've tried to make him a OT back then.
These comparisons and lists are nonsensical. Even in the Super Bowl era there are problems with comparing players, but at least there's a clear demarcation in the game.
Don't mean to offend the old-timers, but being great in today's era is much more impressive to me than being "great" in the 30's through 50's, in particular, against at least two-thirds less competition.
list is weighted way too much to contemporary players bruce. What
about Arnie Weinmeister HOF, our great punter throughout the dark seventies whose name slips, bob Tucker a great TE, Charlie Conerly, Summerall TE and kicker, and i could go on.
List needs lots of work, even you must recognize that.
RE: list is weighted way too much to contemporary players bruce. What
about Arnie Weinmeister HOF, our great punter throughout the dark seventies whose name slips, bob Tucker a great TE, Charlie Conerly, Summerall TE and kicker, and i could go on.
List needs lots of work, even you must recognize that.
I tend to agree, Steve. Not my list, it’s there’s..It’s impossible to make a perfect list, imo
But even he would admit that he belongs nowhere near a list of top 10 Giants. He was a pretty mediocre player who made some really clutch kicks. And, of course, an iconic announcer.
Pat was a huge fan of Kyle Rote, named one of his sons after him, and would certainly argue that he belongs on the list way before Pat (tho perhaps not before these 10).
about Arnie Weinmeister HOF, our great punter throughout the dark seventies whose name slips, bob Tucker a great TE, Charlie Conerly, Summerall TE and kicker, and i could go on.
Dave Jennings
List needs lots of work, even you must recognize that.
I tend to agree, Steve. Not my list, it’s there’s..It’s impossible to make a perfect list, imo
all things are relative to their time. While the old timers played when players were not the size and speed they are today, they also had no access to the weight training, nutrition and year round focus on their health today's athletes have. Most of those guys held down full time jobs while they played football because it was generally not a full time occupation.
You can no more put Tiki on a team from the 50s and suggest he would dominate than you could ask what some of those players would have become if they came of age in the modern times and had all of those same advantages.
Any yes, there is also the fact that blacks were excluded from the league then which greatly watered down the talent to generally only white players.
anyone who played before 1965 I was too young to have an opinion on.
My Super Bowl Era Top 10
GM - George Young
HC - Bill Parcells
Players (not in any order except #1):
Lawrence Taylor
Harry Carson
Carl Banks
Leonard Marshall
Phil Simms
Mark Bavaro
Eli Manning
Michael Strahan
Justin Tuck
Osi Umenyiora
A championship and MVP winning franchise QB who should be in the HOF is more important than a HOF DE who didn't start his career with the Giants. Conerly's career was very similar to Simms and Eli. All three were never considered the top QBs of their era, but were championship winning franchise QBs who all spent their entire 14 plus years with the Giants. Either all three should be on the list or none of them should be on the list. Is we were to rank players all time by position then Huff, Robustelli, Tiki, and a few others would go over the QBs, but QB is such an important position that they should all be on the list. You also can't make the argument that Simms had a better career than Conerly just because it was more recent.
Goven that I started following the Giants in ‘56, I never heard the incessant boos Conerly heard prior to that. Steve (plato) and some others can speak to that. During my time, Conerly was beloved
anyone who played before 1965 I was too young to have an opinion on.
My Super Bowl Era Top 10
GM - George Young
HC - Bill Parcells
Players (not in any order except #1):
Lawrence Taylor
Harry Carson
Carl Banks
Leonard Marshall
Phil Simms
Mark Bavaro
Eli Manning
Michael Strahan
Justin Tuck
Osi Umenyiora
Honorable Mention:
Chris Snee/Tiki Barber
I’d mention jumbo way before snee and snee was one of my all time favorites.
Who are you taking off that list for Tiki.
Bill Walsh called him the NFL's premiere TE.
Quote:
I know he is not well liked among NYG fans. But he's clearly a top 10 Giant.
Who are you taking off that list for Tiki.
Gifford. Tiki dwarfs his stat wise. But again, Tiki was insulting towards Eli so he's forever a NYG pariah.
Quote:
In comment 15707502 NYG22 said:
Quote:
I know he is not well liked among NYG fans. But he's clearly a top 10 Giant.
Who are you taking off that list for Tiki.
Gifford. Tiki dwarfs his stat wise. But again, Tiki was insulting towards Eli so he's forever a NYG pariah.
Stats aren't everything.
"He made eight Pro Bowl appearances and had five trips to the NFL Championship Game. Gifford's best season may have been 1956, when he won the league's Most Valuable Player Award and led the Giants to the NFL title over the Chicago Bears.[9]"
And yeah, if this takes away a little from the long-ago greats, so be it.
I don't care about how good they were. I never saw them play. They played in an era when football didn't resemble anything like today, and they had 12 teams (or even 10, in Mel Hein's day) in the entire league.
Mel Hein played in an era where there were 10 teams, including the Staten Island Stapletons, The Frankford Yellow Jackets, the Providence Steam Rollers, and the Portsmouth Spartans.
Most of these teams hardly had any black players.
So you know, I don't care. Good for you, you were great for your era that isn't relevant to the players or the game today.
Put Tiki Barber in Mel Hein's time and he would be considered the Babe Ruth of football, if anyone even gave him a chance to play. Actually, at Tiki's size they probably would've tried to make him a OT back then.
These comparisons and lists are nonsensical. Even in the Super Bowl era there are problems with comparing players, but at least there's a clear demarcation in the game.
Don't mean to offend the old-timers, but being great in today's era is much more impressive to me than being "great" in the 30's through 50's, in particular, against at least two-thirds less competition.
List needs lots of work, even you must recognize that.
List needs lots of work, even you must recognize that.
I tend to agree, Steve. Not my list, it’s there’s..It’s impossible to make a perfect list, imo
Pat was a huge fan of Kyle Rote, named one of his sons after him, and would certainly argue that he belongs on the list way before Pat (tho perhaps not before these 10).
Quote:
about Arnie Weinmeister HOF, our great punter throughout the dark seventies whose name slips, bob Tucker a great TE, Charlie Conerly, Summerall TE and kicker, and i could go on.
Dave Jennings
List needs lots of work, even you must recognize that.
I tend to agree, Steve. Not my list, it’s there’s..It’s impossible to make a perfect list, imo
You can no more put Tiki on a team from the 50s and suggest he would dominate than you could ask what some of those players would have become if they came of age in the modern times and had all of those same advantages.
Any yes, there is also the fact that blacks were excluded from the league then which greatly watered down the talent to generally only white players.
-L.T.
-Strahan
-Robustelli
-Rosey Brown
-Simms
-Eli
-Gifford
-Tunnell
-Barber
In all of football as well
My Super Bowl Era Top 10
GM - George Young
HC - Bill Parcells
Players (not in any order except #1):
Lawrence Taylor
Harry Carson
Carl Banks
Leonard Marshall
Phil Simms
Mark Bavaro
Eli Manning
Michael Strahan
Justin Tuck
Osi Umenyiora
Honorable Mention:
Chris Snee/Tiki Barber
My Super Bowl Era Top 10
GM - George Young
HC - Bill Parcells
Players (not in any order except #1):
Lawrence Taylor
Harry Carson
Carl Banks
Leonard Marshall
Phil Simms
Mark Bavaro
Eli Manning
Michael Strahan
Justin Tuck
Osi Umenyiora
Honorable Mention:
Chris Snee/Tiki Barber
I’d mention jumbo way before snee and snee was one of my all time favorites.