During Free Agency, the Giants signed Jon Feliciano (6'4" and 328 pounds) and announced that his position would be Center.
During the voluntary camp, the Giants had 2 players used in drills at Center- Feliciano and Ben Bredeson (6'5" and 320 pounds).
Today in the rookie camp, the starting Center was Ben Adler (6'4" and 327 pounds) from Kansas State.
And the recovering Nick Gates is 6'6" and 320 pounds.
Pretty obvious the new Giants coaches want size at the Center position.
This is the first we are hearing about Ben Adler and the Giants.
Sports Illustrated did an article (attached) last week and predicted the players by position that were not drafted, but still had the best chances of making a roster (their 2022 All Undrafted Team). At running back- it was newest Giant Jashaun Corbin and on the O Line, it was Ben Adler, here for a tryout.
It wouldn't be a surprise to see Adler signed this weekend.
Link - (
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@DDuggan21
There’s no “depth chart” at rookie minicamp, but to give an idea of where guys were working today:
1st O: QB Lewerke, RB Williams, WR Robinson, WR Toivonen, WR Dieter, TE Bellinger, LT Hamilton, LG Ezeudu, C Adler, RG McKethan, RT Neal.
2nd O: QB Lewerke, RB Corbin, WR Erwin..
WR Baldwin, WR Pearson, TE Becker, LT Mbaeteka, LG Rivas, C Allen, RG Donaldson, RT Storment.
3rd O: QB Lewerke, RB Brown, WR Curry, WR Ellington, WR Dieter, TE McIntyre, LT Uzoma, LG Kutsch, C Hunter, RG Madden, RT Nelson.
Be great if these two UDFA can contribute to these areas of need...
Film Room 1 w/OG Ben Adler, Kansas State - ( New Window )
Be great if these two UDFA can contribute to these areas of need...
RB has become a "commodity" position in the NFL as teams are using 3 back rotations and no longer desire the "bell cow" back (see SF as prime example). This team did not have the ability to spend draft picks on a RB as they have $7M tied up in Barkley.
As to Center ...I would suggest that Ezeudu could be a Center, they signed Feliciano as a veteran to play there, and they still have Gates (probably not until '23), so using another pick on the position seems like a luxury they did not have.
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I would suggest RB and C were imprudently "overlooked" the weekend of the draft. Can't fill everything of course but they are so weak at both spots.
Be great if these two UDFA can contribute to these areas of need...
RB has become a "commodity" position in the NFL as teams are using 3 back rotations and no longer desire the "bell cow" back (see SF as prime example). This team did not have the ability to spend draft picks on a RB as they have $7M tied up in Barkley.
As to Center ...I would suggest that Ezeudu could be a Center, they signed Feliciano as a veteran to play there, and they still have Gates (probably not until '23), so using another pick on the position seems like a luxury they did not have.
I think this is a bit short-sighted actually. Think investment for the longer term.
Agree on concept of not ever wanting a bell-cow at RB. But when Schoen makes those trade-downs in Rd 2 and picks up a few extra Day 3 picks, one of them should have clearly gone to a RB. A decent halfback that gets some carries as a rookie, learns how to pass protect (NFL style) and maybe even by the end of the year moves up the depth chart. Saquon has no future as a Giant so a decent rookie RB could be our RB1 by 2023.
As for Center...I have never seen a team continue to ignore and not take a position seriously as the Giants have with Center over the years. Has-beens, conversion projects, etc...it's been a revolving joke. Feliciano is another conversion story as well and a 1-year deal so putting a rookie Center on the roster for the future would not have been a bad thing. Ezeudu should focus on becoming a starting Guard where we need that anyway versus reinventing him as a Center.
imv...
Good article you linked. Neither Corbin nor Adler may any of Sy's top 30 (RBs) or 35 (G/C), but the guy the Eagles signed at RB (they have 3 in the All Undrafted Team) was Sy's 10th best and in the write up he really likes his feel for the position.
Be great if these two UDFA can contribute to these areas of need...
What googs said
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In comment 15707860 Jimmy Googs said:
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I would suggest RB and C were imprudently "overlooked" the weekend of the draft. Can't fill everything of course but they are so weak at both spots.
Be great if these two UDFA can contribute to these areas of need...
RB has become a "commodity" position in the NFL as teams are using 3 back rotations and no longer desire the "bell cow" back (see SF as prime example). This team did not have the ability to spend draft picks on a RB as they have $7M tied up in Barkley.
As to Center ...I would suggest that Ezeudu could be a Center, they signed Feliciano as a veteran to play there, and they still have Gates (probably not until '23), so using another pick on the position seems like a luxury they did not have.
I think this is a bit short-sighted actually. Think investment for the longer term.
Agree on concept of not ever wanting a bell-cow at RB. But when Schoen makes those trade-downs in Rd 2 and picks up a few extra Day 3 picks, one of them should have clearly gone to a RB. A decent halfback that gets some carries as a rookie, learns how to pass protect (NFL style) and maybe even by the end of the year moves up the depth chart. Saquon has no future as a Giant so a decent rookie RB could be our RB1 by 2023.
As for Center...I have never seen a team continue to ignore and not take a position seriously as the Giants have with Center over the years. Has-beens, conversion projects, etc...it's been a revolving joke. Feliciano is another conversion story as well and a 1-year deal so putting a rookie Center on the roster for the future would not have been a bad thing. Ezeudu should focus on becoming a starting Guard where we need that anyway versus reinventing him as a Center.
imv...
I actually you are the one missing the forest for the trees. Under the new Giants leaders, they are drafting for scheme fit, not BPA or need.
Obviously, Neal or Thibs would check any box being top 10 picks. However, if you paid attention to the rest of the draft, you saw that the Giants identified players who fit the offensive and defensive schemes that Daboll and wink want to run.
Was a WR a need- no, but they drafted one in the 2nd round. Was he even the draftniks top player- no. Why was he drafted- because he is a fit for the new offensive scheme.
Same for the 3rd rounder- was interior OL a need- yes. Was he the draftniks top player- no. Why picked- best for the scheme.
We can do this all the way down.
It wasn't that OC and RB were "overlooked"- given the way they drafted and what they pursued in UDFA, the Giants did not appear to have identified players at OC and RB who fit their scheme and were ranked higher on their board than the players they picked.
This fits into a problem emerging on this Board. Too many are getting visions of the 2022 Giants being a competitive team capable of 7+ wins. That is not and never has been a realistic option in 2022.
An overachieving Giants team likely wins 4-5 games in 2022- there just isn't enough talent to compete week in week out. Thus, some positions were not addressed in this draft because they will be addressed in FA next off-season and in the next draft.
WR, QB, OC, CB and probably RB will fall into this area- and it is arguable that even with the draft picks invested this past draft that LB and interior DL could well be targets too, depending on vets.
In the
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In comment 15707867 Tom in NY said:
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In comment 15707860 Jimmy Googs said:
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I would suggest RB and C were imprudently "overlooked" the weekend of the draft. Can't fill everything of course but they are so weak at both spots.
Be great if these two UDFA can contribute to these areas of need...
RB has become a "commodity" position in the NFL as teams are using 3 back rotations and no longer desire the "bell cow" back (see SF as prime example). This team did not have the ability to spend draft picks on a RB as they have $7M tied up in Barkley.
As to Center ...I would suggest that Ezeudu could be a Center, they signed Feliciano as a veteran to play there, and they still have Gates (probably not until '23), so using another pick on the position seems like a luxury they did not have.
I think this is a bit short-sighted actually. Think investment for the longer term.
Agree on concept of not ever wanting a bell-cow at RB. But when Schoen makes those trade-downs in Rd 2 and picks up a few extra Day 3 picks, one of them should have clearly gone to a RB. A decent halfback that gets some carries as a rookie, learns how to pass protect (NFL style) and maybe even by the end of the year moves up the depth chart. Saquon has no future as a Giant so a decent rookie RB could be our RB1 by 2023.
As for Center...I have never seen a team continue to ignore and not take a position seriously as the Giants have with Center over the years. Has-beens, conversion projects, etc...it's been a revolving joke. Feliciano is another conversion story as well and a 1-year deal so putting a rookie Center on the roster for the future would not have been a bad thing. Ezeudu should focus on becoming a starting Guard where we need that anyway versus reinventing him as a Center.
imv...
I actually you are the one missing the forest for the trees. Under the new Giants leaders, they are drafting for scheme fit, not BPA or need.
Obviously, Neal or Thibs would check any box being top 10 picks. However, if you paid attention to the rest of the draft, you saw that the Giants identified players who fit the offensive and defensive schemes that Daboll and wink want to run.
Was a WR a need- no, but they drafted one in the 2nd round. Was he even the draftniks top player- no. Why was he drafted- because he is a fit for the new offensive scheme.
Same for the 3rd rounder- was interior OL a need- yes. Was he the draftniks top player- no. Why picked- best for the scheme.
We can do this all the way down.
It wasn't that OC and RB were "overlooked"- given the way they drafted and what they pursued in UDFA, the Giants did not appear to have identified players at OC and RB who fit their scheme and were ranked higher on their board than the players they picked.
This fits into a problem emerging on this Board. Too many are getting visions of the 2022 Giants being a competitive team capable of 7+ wins. That is not and never has been a realistic option in 2022.
An overachieving Giants team likely wins 4-5 games in 2022- there just isn't enough talent to compete week in week out. Thus, some positions were not addressed in this draft because they will be addressed in FA next off-season and in the next draft.
WR, QB, OC, CB and probably RB will fall into this area- and it is arguable that even with the draft picks invested this past draft that LB and interior DL could well be targets too, depending on vets.
In the
Not sure where the "...visions of a competitive team" comment originates from, but my point is that there is a positional value of RBs, and that they indeed have addressed Center as a position. There are only so many holes that can get addressed in one offseason/draft and they generally did a good job addressing as many of them with long term answers as possible, while not spending anything more than vet minimums in free agency (save Glowinski).
They have to rebuild an entire roster and RB is just not of enough value right now to use draft picks, nor duplicating the Center position.
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It's interesting that the Giants drafted both the 2 starting guards for North Carolina and now at this weekends rookie camp, they have the 2 starting guards from Kansas State (Josh Rivas and Ben Adler).
Then you have the corners from LSU (Flott and Evans), plus players who would have squared off against each other in practice: Robinson and Corker at Kentucky; Bellinger and Thompson at SDSU; Fox against the two guards at UNC; Corbin and Rice at FSU; Donaldson and Carter at Miami...
Interesting. Clearly Schoen and the coaching staff must see a nice fit between those programs and what they will be running/looking for in their game plan.
Agreed. He looked like he would be at least an above average Center for a long time.
The shittiest part about the whole thing is he got hurt playing out of position because dickhead Gettleman did nothing to add depth to the line outside of signing a bunch of older free agents who opted to retire right before the season started and then started wheeling and dealing to trade for other teams castoffs (Price and Bredeson).
2. I can't believe I was unable to recognize how incompetent we were during Gettleman.
2. I can't believe I was unable to recognize how incompetent we were during Gettleman.
I tend to be a wait-and-see guy.
I waited, I saw. My eyes were opened.
As for Center...I have never seen a team continue to ignore and not take a position seriously as the Giants have with Center over the years. Has-beens, conversion projects, etc...it's been a revolving joke. Feliciano is another conversion story as well and a 1-year deal so putting a rookie Center on the roster for the future would not have been a bad thing. Ezeudu should focus on becoming a starting Guard where we need that anyway versus reinventing him as a Center.
imv...
Jimmy, you and I were both all-in on the Giants drafting a Center this year, and I know you were just as disappointed as I was that they didn't.
Now, I don't know anything about this kid they just brought in, but I have said to keep an eye on Ben Bredeson this Summer, specifically how many snaps he takes at OC. I look at it this way. Glowinski signed a two-year deal, and the Giants spent a 5th on McKethan. They may feel that Bredeson would be better off moving to OC instead of getting buried at RG. As Sy'56 wrote in his pre-draft review of Bredeson:
I guess we'll see.
Joe made a point that he wanted to add size to contend with the talented NFCE lines. Philly added a monster in Davis. WFT has devoted huge resources to the DL.
I made this point before but the Bills had a hard time running between the tackles against the Chiefs and were not very good overall all year. All the flash is nice in this modern offense they are bringing but hopefully a lesson learned and element they want to have here is being able to impose your will on the interior. This is critical if you want to get to the top at the end imv.
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In comment 15707867 Tom in NY said:
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In comment 15707860 Jimmy Googs said:
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I would suggest RB and C were imprudently "overlooked" the weekend of the draft. Can't fill everything of course but they are so weak at both spots.
Be great if these two UDFA can contribute to these areas of need...
RB has become a "commodity" position in the NFL as teams are using 3 back rotations and no longer desire the "bell cow" back (see SF as prime example). This team did not have the ability to spend draft picks on a RB as they have $7M tied up in Barkley.
As to Center ...I would suggest that Ezeudu could be a Center, they signed Feliciano as a veteran to play there, and they still have Gates (probably not until '23), so using another pick on the position seems like a luxury they did not have.
I think this is a bit short-sighted actually. Think investment for the longer term.
Agree on concept of not ever wanting a bell-cow at RB. But when Schoen makes those trade-downs in Rd 2 and picks up a few extra Day 3 picks, one of them should have clearly gone to a RB. A decent halfback that gets some carries as a rookie, learns how to pass protect (NFL style) and maybe even by the end of the year moves up the depth chart. Saquon has no future as a Giant so a decent rookie RB could be our RB1 by 2023.
As for Center...I have never seen a team continue to ignore and not take a position seriously as the Giants have with Center over the years. Has-beens, conversion projects, etc...it's been a revolving joke. Feliciano is another conversion story as well and a 1-year deal so putting a rookie Center on the roster for the future would not have been a bad thing. Ezeudu should focus on becoming a starting Guard where we need that anyway versus reinventing him as a Center.
imv...
I actually you are the one missing the forest for the trees. Under the new Giants leaders, they are drafting for scheme fit, not BPA or need.
Obviously, Neal or Thibs would check any box being top 10 picks. However, if you paid attention to the rest of the draft, you saw that the Giants identified players who fit the offensive and defensive schemes that Daboll and wink want to run.
Was a WR a need- no, but they drafted one in the 2nd round. Was he even the draftniks top player- no. Why was he drafted- because he is a fit for the new offensive scheme.
Same for the 3rd rounder- was interior OL a need- yes. Was he the draftniks top player- no. Why picked- best for the scheme.
We can do this all the way down.
It wasn't that OC and RB were "overlooked"- given the way they drafted and what they pursued in UDFA, the Giants did not appear to have identified players at OC and RB who fit their scheme and were ranked higher on their board than the players they picked.
This fits into a problem emerging on this Board. Too many are getting visions of the 2022 Giants being a competitive team capable of 7+ wins. That is not and never has been a realistic option in
There have been many examples in sports where teams exceed expectations,
One never know until the games have been played.
It wasn't that OC and RB were "overlooked"- given the way they drafted and what they pursued in UDFA, the Giants did not appear to have identified players at OC and RB who fit their scheme and were ranked higher on their board than the players they picked.
This fits into a problem emerging on this Board. Too many are getting visions of the 2022 Giants being a competitive team capable of 7+ wins. That is not and never has been a realistic option in 2022.
Thanks for the input Rich, but you don't really know the first part of your post above anymore than rest of us. These positions could have just been overlooked as I mentioned, or their RB/OC targets were taken just in front of them, or they just decided to punt addressing them to next year. In any case, it doesn't matter and the sentiment I raised above stands imv.
As for the second part, the problem you think is emerging on the board has absolutely nothing to do with me and my thoughts as to the NYG. You can read my posts and see my "visions" pretty damn clearly...
Not sure where the "...visions of a competitive team" comment originates from, but my point is that there is a positional value of RBs, and that they indeed have addressed Center as a position. There are only so many holes that can get addressed in one offseason/draft and they generally did a good job addressing as many of them with long term answers as possible, while not spending anything more than vet minimums in free agency (save Glowinski).
They have to rebuild an entire roster and RB is just not of enough value right now to use draft picks, nor duplicating the Center position.
Agree with the first part as mentioned. Not really on the second as they had sufficient number of picks to give those areas some investment.
Again, as the OP intimates, maybe the UDFAs in these areas will provide some value here. I will give a favorite line...let's wait and see...
Even Alex Wilson churns out better content than this, and that's not saying much.
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As for Center...I have never seen a team continue to ignore and not take a position seriously as the Giants have with Center over the years. Has-beens, conversion projects, etc...it's been a revolving joke. Feliciano is another conversion story as well and a 1-year deal so putting a rookie Center on the roster for the future would not have been a bad thing. Ezeudu should focus on becoming a starting Guard where we need that anyway versus reinventing him as a Center.
imv...
Jimmy, you and I were both all-in on the Giants drafting a Center this year, and I know you were just as disappointed as I was that they didn't.
Now, I don't know anything about this kid they just brought in, but I have said to keep an eye on Ben Bredeson this Summer, specifically how many snaps he takes at OC. I look at it this way. Glowinski signed a two-year deal, and the Giants spent a 5th on McKethan. They may feel that Bredeson would be better off moving to OC instead of getting buried at RG. As Sy'56 wrote in his pre-draft review of Bredeson:
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He is on the higher end of experience, toughness, and on-field intelligence. He is rarely caught doing something he shouldn’t be doing when it comes to technique and he always seems to know how to respond to any situation...Bredeson won’t be anyone’s favorite guard in the class but I bet he stays in the league as long as anyone on this list. There may be a chance he moves to center, as some teams are worried about his length shortcoming but they respect his intelligence and grit.
I guess we'll see.
Yes, but concerns still are plenty. I like the confidence shown by Feliciano although my guess is he felt that way because he knows (or was told by Schoen) the door is wide-open at Center on the Giants and signed to re-invent himself. And I have very little confidence in Bredeson being a starter anywhere on that OL based on his play last year, he's a reserve.
And here is example #42 as to why the rebuild will continue beyond this year...
One never know until the games have been played.
Betting on exceeding expectations in an environment that has repeatedly fallen short of the hypothesis number is a good way to lose money, even if there's an occasional win mixed in.
Optimism is the heart and soul of fandom. But it's not always tied to an intelligent view of the team.
The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet."
And another line, Martin Sheen in "The Departed."
"We deal in deception here. What we do not deal in is self-deception."
Words to live by.
Sure, we've seen teams go from worst to first before, and all kinds of things can happen over the course of a season. But I think we need to take a more realistic approach to 2022. I've said before that seven wins is not unreasonable, and I stand by that. Anything more is gravy to me.
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There have been many examples in sports where teams exceed expectations,
One never know until the games have been played.
Betting on exceeding expectations in an environment that has repeatedly fallen short of the hypothesis number is a good way to lose money, even if there's an occasional win mixed in.
Optimism is the heart and soul of fandom. But it's not always tied to an intelligent view of the team.
The Giants have had a decade of opportunities to exceed my expecations. They have done it once I think. So joe is correct, you never know...