I know this horse is beaten to death but the offseason is long.
He seems like a hard worker and will do anything to improve.
With a better OL and a more modern offense can he be a top 15 QB in the league??
I think he can make all the throws and has a great deep ball.
However my opinion is he does not have "it". I have never scouted any players in my life, however it seems to me top QBs in the league have that 6th sense in the pocket that allows them to take a step up or to the side that you cant teach.
Daniel does not have that sense and will never be calm in the pocket because he knows he doesn't have it. Maybe I am unfair because he has never had a pocket to step into?
Anybody here still a believer?
If he fails Tyrod will bridge the team until they draft the future starter in next year’s draft.
I agree with you on Jones, he’s got a decent arm, can run, but something just doesn’t seem right about him from a franchise QB standpoint.
Agreed, but Jones’ success/failure will have a massive impact not only on this season, but what will happen in the years to come.
What can make a huge difference is improving the team around him and putting him in positions to use his talent available. This would appear like his own huge improvement but this position has always been dependent on talent more so than any other. Hopefully the Giants get close to finding what level this is for DJ this year.
The new coaching staff know he wasn't given a fair chance to succeed. We all know he wasn't given a fair chance either and yet are fully convinced it didn't matter; he's just not the guy. I like to look back at his rookie year when it seemed he did have the talent to succeed but simply needed to fix his fumbling and turnovers. That being the case, I am optimistic he can become the guy when given a decent offensive line, starting quality receivers, and a real system to operate in. So yeah, I think he can become the guy. But if not, then we have to move on.
Therefore, I think the real questions are;
1. Have those other factors been corrected (haven't played a single down yet) and then, if so...
2. Can Daniel Jones recover and show the team that he's an ascending talent and hasn't already plateaued (or is not permanently broken mentally).
I think a lot of potentially great QBs had their career destroyed early on by the lack of support, weapons, coaching, etc around them. However, if they can't recover from a bad situation, they probably don't deserve it anyway.
Did it ever occur to you that after his rookie year DCs saw Jones's flaws, and now they know how to exploit them?
And with two additional years on his resume, DCs are very locked in on how to defend a very limited QB in Jones...
In sports we often become unable to look past the present when evaluating the future. Using past performance to predict the future is what we do, but sports is littered with “unexpected “ success stories
Then and only then can we evaluate him. Any sucking he does in the meantime is clearly not his fault.
Also, Malik Willis is stupid. Pass it on."
In sports we often become unable to look past the present when evaluating the future. Using past performance to predict the future is what we do, but sports is littered with “unexpected “ success stories
and full of players who started good and busted out
except maybe his receiving skills...
Well he hasn’t had any the last 2 years. You have no way of proving that.
I’m not really interested in another Andy Dalton.
I do not think that the WRs, TEs, RBs, or Oline would have performed better if Jones had been a better passer. But I do think that the reverse is true.
Put me in a Porche 911 and I can drive a lot faster than in my Accord.
I’m not really interested in another Andy Dalton.
For 12 out of 15 seasons, the Giants had Andy Dalton playing QB. His name was Eli, and for 3 seasons (2007, 2008, and 2011), he was elite. I think most here would say Eli was a franchise QB for the whole 15 years. Since this is a rebuild year no matter who is playing QB, I would give Jones one more year to prove himself. By midseason or earlier, half of us may get our wish for another starting QB.
Being a shitposter is such an easy job. Your contribution is exhibit A.
Daboll and Kafka are going to put him in a position to succeed and try to unlock whatever ability IS there. I think an average starter is very possible. The issue is “is that good enough?”. I was never an Eli fan during the regular seasons (except for 2011), but he had another level in the playoffs. We really have no idea if that “2nd gear” exists with Jones. My gut says no, but Schoen and Daboll want to find out.
I hope he can make strides but I do not see him being better then a Prime Tannehill or Andy Dalton
I've posted the stats for Clemson's DJ Uiagalelei. Here's another example. Remember the "on to Cincinnati" expression? That was because the Pats got crushed in the previous game due to a porous OL. The Pats fixed it and got back on track. But the real talk that entire week back in 2014 was that Brady was washed up and should retire. Because he looked terrible behind a porous OL.
As for whether he can improve… he can get much better results just by improving his short-range accuracy. Throws like the one where Barkley hurt his ankle, or the many that Engram couldn’t haul in, have cost Jones much more than a wasted down or an aborted drive. Those mechanical errors on short throws should be fixable. The mental mistakes might improve with better protection, but nothing in his history suggests that he will ever overcome them. I’m afraid Jones may be Joey Harrington to Gettleman’s Matt Millen.
Any AA Jones has…for the most part…has been completely neutered by poor O-line play…if I was a DC that’s where I would start.
Can Daboll fix his in game thinking, who knows but I'm leaning doubtful.
+1
Those of us who are at least 3 years old understand that Jones is a type who is going to need support to succeed except perhaps for an occasional QB run. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Even a Brady can not see things that are not there.
Fact: a timetable means nothing if an organization fails to
provide tools within that timetable.
Fact: No reliable run game - ball control or big play
Fact: No reliable pass protection without major breakdowns
Fact: No receiving game which required neutralizing more
than 1 receiver.
Sure a pocket QB will be sure to thrive given the above environment. I know Jones sucking has been stated ad nauseam by the 2 year old crowd. He also seems responsible for the option provisions of the CBA. The turf at the stadium. SB's running style. Engram's lack of ball focus. Shepherd's propensity for missing games. Slayton's continued downward drift. OC's style which made Neanderthals seem progressive.
Odds are stacked against Jones because he is not the new regime's guy and will create giant, perhaps intractable salary cap problems if he, against all odds, has a breakout season. Path of least resistance for the new regime is to tank 2022 season, and to do that Jones cannot win games.
Those of us who are at least 3 years old understand that Jones is a type who is going to need support to succeed except perhaps for an occasional QB run. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Even a Brady can not see things that are not there.
Fact: a timetable means nothing if an organization fails to
provide tools within that timetable.
Fact: No reliable run game - ball control or big play
Fact: No reliable pass protection without major breakdowns
Fact: No receiving game which required neutralizing more
than 1 receiver.
Sure a pocket QB will be sure to thrive given the above environment. I know Jones sucking has been stated ad nauseam by the 2 year old crowd. He also seems responsible for the option provisions of the CBA. The turf at the stadium. SB's running style. Engram's lack of ball focus. Shepherd's propensity for missing games. Slayton's continued downward drift. OC's style which made Neanderthals seem progressive.
Odds are stacked against Jones because he is not the new regime's guy and will create giant, perhaps intractable salary cap problems if he, against all odds, has a breakout season. Path of least resistance for the new regime is to tank 2022 season, and to do that Jones cannot win games.
He's not a fast thinker. And because the game moves faster than his mind it makes him too easily flustered and he knows this. All of this "he's so smart and he works so hard" stuff misunderstands how brains work differently. And some people don't even need to think about the game as much as have a feel they've developed for it.
I doubt Brett Favre is doing better learning macroeconomics than Daniel Jones. But they didn't draft Daniel Jones to be an investment banker even though they talk about him as if it's the same thing.
Could, in a perfect world BD act as a surrogate brain for DJ. (Look here first, then here, then here) Sure and that will probably go better but who knows how well? The bottom line is the real measure of any skill in any profession is how well someone does in the face of the unexpected, the unplanned. And you don't suddenly get good at that.
IMO he has already largely maxed out his ability.
IMO he has already largely maxed out his ability.
Exactly why I laugh at the "look at what BD and MK did with Allen/Jones" posts
They sculpted raw guys into great QBs. They're now taking on a QB who had high level CFB coaching, and now 3 years in the NFL, as well as the same personal coach since HS.
A potter can fix mistakes in wet clay, but once it's been put in the kiln not so much.
For the Giants' passing game to flourish, they need a QB who possesses these aforementioned qualities. 2022 will be DJ's last year and he may not make it through the season given his injury history. So, we will need to find a QB in the 2023 draft to be the next heir to what appears to be an otherwise promising near future for our Giants.