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Marcus McKethan--the most curious pick...

Milton : 5/15/2022 1:09 am
After Day 1 and the selection of Neal, I thought OL was still in the mix, but only if the guy was BPA. It was still a need, but no longer a priority. So I get the addition of Ezeudu and I'm confident that they didn't reach for him at all, he must've been in the BPA mix. But after selecting Neal and Ezeudu on Days 1 & 2 (and after having spent on Glowinski, Feliciano, Garcia, and Douglas in free agency) I assumed it would take an OL sticking out like a sore thumb or a center who they were high on. And since they shirley don't see him at center, they must've had a pretty high grade on him. Clearly they had a much higher view of him than did the draftniks, who mostly viewed him as a 7th round/priority free agent. In that way, he was the most surprising pick to me.
With the exception of Glowinski......  
No Where Man : 5/15/2022 4:59 am : link
All of the other FA OL are on 1 year deals. MM is 6'6 and 340, what's not to like?
I think they see  
Dankbeerman : 5/15/2022 6:19 am : link
Him as a guy that can back up both OT and OG. He probay flashed enough on film when they did their work on Ezeudu.
After last years fiasco  
section125 : 5/15/2022 6:34 am : link
with borderline vets being traded for and then crashing, why not grab some additional bodies for the line. Maybe they see something that can be worked with in his make up.

To me, Wan'Dale Robinson is the most curious pick. Not that I don't like it. Seems like the type of guy that ate the Giants defense for the last few years. Thought it was different they didn't look for an outside type to replace Slayton.
I think these 2 OL from North Carolina  
Chip : 5/15/2022 6:36 am : link
Are a key part of the success of the draft. If one of them works out and becomes a starter that plays well the draft will be a huge success. KT and Evan will be slam dunks and a great start to the rebuild.
This is what it looks like to build an OL  
BillT : 5/15/2022 6:39 am : link
OL is the biggest unit on the team. It requires the most players to build and maintain a quality group. Unless you are committed to regularly acquiring OL you will not be able to develop and maintain a quality unit. As a comparison look at the 5 OL DG drafted in his four years at GM and what the OL looked like after that. And Schoen did that after signing 6 FA OL. Someone who gets it.
At that point in the draft, seven picks away from Rd. 6...  
Klaatu : 5/15/2022 6:46 am : link
I figure the Giants were looking for traits worth developing. They'd seen the kid up close and personal at UNC, obviously liked what they'd seen, and decided to take a flyer on him. So, he's a project, but at #173, if he works out in a year or two it was a smart investment. If not, he didn't cost them very much.

For the record, I was hoping they'd draft DE Dominique Robinson, who was picked right after they took McKethan.
Pick 173 is basically a lottery ticket.  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/15/2022 7:09 am : link
No harm swinging for the fences with a “Planet Theory” prospect like McKethan, IMO. You’re unlikely to fill at immediate need at that stage of the draft anyway, other than special teams.

Belton was more of a surprise to me initially. But safety was such a glaring need that they probably couldn’t afford to wait. If Martindale thinks Belton is a good system fit, the 114th pick isn’t a big investment.
RE: Pick 173 is basically a lottery ticket.  
Mike in NY : 5/15/2022 7:19 am : link
In comment 15708990 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
No harm swinging for the fences with a “Planet Theory” prospect like McKethan, IMO. You’re unlikely to fill at immediate need at that stage of the draft anyway, other than special teams.

Belton was more of a surprise to me initially. But safety was such a glaring need that they probably couldn’t afford to wait. If Martindale thinks Belton is a good system fit, the 114th pick isn’t a big investment.


I think it was a matter of how the draft fell. Possibly if they landed a CB they were targeting in Round 2 they would have gone with someone like Nick Cross in Round 3. Considering they hired Mike Derice from Indy (he was the area scout for guys like Woods and Cross among others over the years), the Giants probably thought highly of the guys he pushed.
The most curious pick to me was Flott.  
robbieballs2003 : 5/15/2022 7:32 am : link
I am one always banging the table for a slot corner. I have said countless times that it is its own position and just throwing an outside corner there most likely doesn't work out. The player needs to be trained and have a unique skillset.

With that said, the reason I have him as the most curious pick is because of everything else going on. One, we knew nothing was going on regarding the trade front with Bradberry. We knew he wasn't going to be here. Two, we've drafted slot corners in each of the last 3 years. Three, he is very skinny.

With all of that said, he will be tried inside and outside. He has good height and even Flott said he's working on adding weight. Do they eventually see him as an outside guy? Can he handle the slot against bigger WRs that play there in today's NFL? Can he blitz and handle the run game at his size? In the clips I saw he can come up and tackle but college is different than the NFL. A good OC will get a big slot WR and run in his direction. This is what is difficult about playing the slot position on D. You have to be ready for everything (speed, quickness, size, strength, run support, etc.). Teams will find your weakness and expose it. Offenses have set the trend if anyone and everyone lining up in the slot. Defenses are still playing catchup.

It will be interesting to see what Flott can handle and how Wink will handle these matchups. I expect Love will be used a lot all over the field.
RE: Pick 173 is basically a lottery ticket.  
Klaatu : 5/15/2022 7:32 am : link
In comment 15708990 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
No harm swinging for the fences with a “Planet Theory” prospect like McKethan, IMO. You’re unlikely to fill at immediate need at that stage of the draft anyway, other than special teams.

Belton was more of a surprise to me initially. But safety was such a glaring need that they probably couldn’t afford to wait. If Martindale thinks Belton is a good system fit, the 114th pick isn’t a big investment.


I think they had to strike while the iron was still hot, so to speak, when they drafted Belton, even if it meant passing up some pretty good prospects at several other positions. They couldn't afford to wait any longer as pickings were getting very slim. There wasn't another Safety drafted until #152.
And another thing about the slot position  
robbieballs2003 : 5/15/2022 7:42 am : link
Playing man is different in the outside than on the inside. You can't just expect an outside guy to lineup on the inside and say play man. There are different routes, different angles, different help, different techniques, when moving outside to inside. With Wink wanting to play a lot of man, I expect Wink to prep these corners right and you'll see our DBs all over the place if guys are showing weaknesses against certain types of players.

Say, for example, Flott is getting beaten by bigger WRs in the slot. You may see a bigger corner get moved inside to play that matchup with Flott moving outside if he matches up better against that particular type of WR. With that said, it isn't easy at all and we may see one of our safeties go there first before another corner hence why I said Love should have a big role this year because of his versatility.
the  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/15/2022 7:47 am : link
career-threatening injury to Gates last year should have reminded you how fragile an NFL career can be.
RE: the  
section125 : 5/15/2022 7:59 am : link
In comment 15709009 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
career-threatening injury to Gates last year should have reminded you how fragile an NFL career can be.


And even Lemieux. Patellar ligament tears are not guaranteed heals.
RE: RE: the  
robbieballs2003 : 5/15/2022 8:38 am : link
In comment 15709018 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15709009 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


career-threatening injury to Gates last year should have reminded you how fragile an NFL career can be.



And even Lemieux. Patellar ligament tears are not guaranteed heals.


I wouldn't be surprised if Lemieux is not in the roster this year. Pass blocking is too important in today's NFL. If he doesn't improve dramatically in that area then I don't see a spot for him unless we get an onslaught of injuries at the position. We have a bunch of bodies there now. Even if we keep 9 OL it will be tough:

Absolutes:

Thomas
Feliciano
Glowinski
Neal


Rest of the bunch in no order:

Ezeudu
Peart
Gono
Lemieux
Garcia
Bredesen
Gates
Mbaeteka
McKethan
Cunningham
Hamilton


Gotta imagine Peart and Gates are on the PUP list to start. I would assume that Ezeudu is on the roster, I just didn't want to automatically assume he was. Bredeson probably will he because he plays C. Garcia may start for us. If we take those guys then that is 7 right there

Thomas
Ezeudu
Feliciano
Glowinski
Neal

Garcia
Bredeson

Since that is 7 we are looking at 1 to 2 more but no backup OT so the next guy or even 2 need to play OT. With only 1 or 2 spots left, who stays and who goes from this list:

Lemieux
Gono
Mbaeteka
McKethan
Cunningham
Hamilton
Robbie  
BillT : 5/15/2022 9:02 am : link
9 OL is probably minimum and 10 isn’t out of the question. Ezeudu is a lock and probably McKethan as well. Garcia has experience at C so I don’t think Bredeson has any leg up on a spot because of that. Mbaeteka almost certainly will make the team. So, Thomas, Garcia, Ezeudu, Feliciano, Glowinski, Neal McKethan, Mbaeteka. They probably need a vet backup T so Gono makes 9. Beyond that I don’t know.
robbie, of your final five...  
Klaatu : 5/15/2022 9:02 am : link
Quote:
Lemieux
Gono
Mbaeteka
McKethan
Cunningham
Hamilton


Gono and McKethan stick. Mbaetka goes to the PS.
RE: robbie, of your final five...  
BillT : 5/15/2022 9:06 am : link
In comment 15709042 Klaatu said:
Quote:


Quote:


Lemieux
Gono
Mbaeteka
McKethan
Cunningham
Hamilton



Gono and McKethan stick. Mbaetka goes to the PS.

They signed Mbaeteka to a three year deal. I believe they could have made him an international exception and choose to give him a regular contract. I would think they will protect him rather than expose him to waivers.
RE: RE: robbie, of your final five...  
Klaatu : 5/15/2022 9:10 am : link
In comment 15709046 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 15709042 Klaatu said:


Quote:




Quote:


Lemieux
Gono
Mbaeteka
McKethan
Cunningham
Hamilton



Gono and McKethan stick. Mbaetka goes to the PS.


They signed Mbaeteka to a three year deal. I believe they could have made him an international exception and choose to give him a regular contract. I would think they will protect him rather than expose him to waivers.


Fair enough. I wasn't sure exactly what his status was, but from listening to Daboll's comments, he's clearly got a long way to go before he's ready for prime time. If they keep 10 OL he'll probably make the final 53.
RE: At that point in the draft, seven picks away from Rd. 6...  
Jimmy Googs : 5/15/2022 9:18 am : link
In comment 15708984 Klaatu said:
Quote:
I figure the Giants were looking for traits worth developing. They'd seen the kid up close and personal at UNC, obviously liked what they'd seen, and decided to take a flyer on him. So, he's a project, but at #173, if he works out in a year or two it was a smart investment. If not, he didn't cost them very much.

For the record, I was hoping they'd draft DE Dominique Robinson, who was picked right after they took McKethan.


Yeah, this. They probably had a high enough grade on McKethan that with him still available and the coach vouching for him they wanted to give him a shot.

It’s all about the OL, maybe you guys need a refresher course...
RE: RE: the  
jpkmets : 5/15/2022 9:30 am : link
In comment 15709018 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15709009 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


career-threatening injury to Gates last year should have reminded you how fragile an NFL career can be.



And even Lemieux. Patellar ligament tears are not guaranteed heals.


and Pio. Don’t sleep on Pio.
RE: RE: RE: the  
section125 : 5/15/2022 9:32 am : link
In comment 15709060 jpkmets said:
Quote:
In comment 15709018 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15709009 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


career-threatening injury to Gates last year should have reminded you how fragile an NFL career can be.



And even Lemieux. Patellar ligament tears are not guaranteed heals.



and Pio. Don’t sleep on Pio.


Didn't he drive DG out of Metlife last January?
I think he’s a developmental PS  
Simms11 : 5/15/2022 9:33 am : link
type of lineman. They must have liked his size and toughness inside and Thoth they could develop him.
I like what Schoen did: Keep drafting OL until the position is fixed  
sb from NYT Forum : 5/15/2022 9:41 am : link
...This is what Gettleman (and Reese also) just didn't get. It wasn't enough to drop a couple of high draft picks and call it a day.

Keep drafting multiple OL EVERY draft until you KNOW the position is good. Draft at least for depth, and maybe, just maybe a late round pick rises above and becomes a starter.
The North Carolina Center...  
Johnny5 : 5/15/2022 9:55 am : link
.... called McKethan "the enforcer" on the Tar Heels OL. And as blogger said he absolutely fits the "Planet theory", definitely not a bad idea to take a flyer on a player like that at 173. Bobby Johnson clearly saw something in those 2 NC teammates. Hopefully they are both hits.
RE: The most curious pick to me was Flott.  
Eric on Li : 5/15/2022 10:08 am : link
In comment 15708997 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
I am one always banging the table for a slot corner. I have said countless times that it is its own position and just throwing an outside corner there most likely doesn't work out. The player needs to be trained and have a unique skillset.

With that said, the reason I have him as the most curious pick is because of everything else going on. One, we knew nothing was going on regarding the trade front with Bradberry. We knew he wasn't going to be here. Two, we've drafted slot corners in each of the last 3 years. Three, he is very skinny.

With all of that said, he will be tried inside and outside. He has good height and even Flott said he's working on adding weight. Do they eventually see him as an outside guy? Can he handle the slot against bigger WRs that play there in today's NFL? Can he blitz and handle the run game at his size? In the clips I saw he can come up and tackle but college is different than the NFL. A good OC will get a big slot WR and run in his direction. This is what is difficult about playing the slot position on D. You have to be ready for everything (speed, quickness, size, strength, run support, etc.). Teams will find your weakness and expose it. Offenses have set the trend if anyone and everyone lining up in the slot. Defenses are still playing catchup.

It will be interesting to see what Flott can handle and how Wink will handle these matchups. I expect Love will be used a lot all over the field.


an under-discussed aspect of flott is that he had one of the highest wonderlic scores in the entire draft (think it was a 38). during minicamp Robinson made a comment that during the season there were times he came off the field and told his coaches that Flott seemed to know his routes before he started them.

they had him on a top 30 so he's clearly a guy who had traits they identified. he's athletic, one of the youngest/smartest players in the draft, and feisty. anything can happen but a lot to work with there.
RE: I like what Schoen did: Keep drafting OL until the position is fixed  
Payasdaddy : 5/15/2022 11:07 am : link
In comment 15709068 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...This is what Gettleman (and Reese also) just didn't get. It wasn't enough to drop a couple of high draft picks and call it a day.

Keep drafting multiple OL EVERY draft until you KNOW the position is good. Draft at least for depth, and maybe, just maybe a late round pick rises above and becomes a starter.



Always like the idea of using a mid to late rd pick on oline or dline. Gotta keep the pipeline fresh. Looking forward to watch oline develop this yr. We are 3 deep from a competitive standpoint. We may be 1 interior olineman away from a very good oline. Would love to see gates playing in November to solidify center, May be a stretch but is possible. Feliciano should be a decent feisty stop gap. Between him, SL and Glowinski. Got some attitude and decent talent level.
I Believe McKethan is an Example of John Madden's Theory  
OntheRoad : 5/15/2022 3:02 pm : link

that if it's late in the draft and you don't have a strong conviction, pick someone large and unusual.
big man  
Hilary : 5/15/2022 4:04 pm : link
third and one or two or goal line. A few plays make a big difference in a game
RE: the  
Milton : 5/15/2022 4:57 pm : link
In comment 15709009 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
career-threatening injury to Gates last year should have reminded you how fragile an NFL career can be.
Believe me, I don't need to be reminded, no Giants fan need be reminded of what injuries can mean to a promising career, but they don't just happen to offensive linemen and that's part of why I found taking a third OL in the draft such a curious move that must've meant they had a pretty high grade on him (relative to where he was taken). My guess is his grade was high enough that he was in the mix when they selected McFadden and Davidson at the top of the round, but they went with the greater needs at LB and NT.
McKethan  
cokeduplt : 5/15/2022 7:53 pm : link
Is basically the same size as Neal. If they can get him up to speed the right side of the line in the future would be massive.
RE: McKethan  
Milton : 5/15/2022 10:22 pm : link
In comment 15709477 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
Is basically the same size as Neal. If they can get him up to speed the right side of the line in the future would be massive.
Thomas Ezeudu Gates McKethan Neal (from left to right) would be a pretty intimidating OL in 2023 if Gates returns to health and McKethan overtakes Glowinski at right guard. Glowinski is receiving tweener-money (a little rich for a backup, but short of vet starter money), so in an ideal world, his tenure as a starter is limited to 2022. And maybe therein lies the reason for McKethan's selection: they see Glowinski as just an expensive, but necessary stop gap; and see McKethan as the prototypical right guard (maybe unlike LeMieux and Bredeson, who project better on the left side or center).

Coaches always talk about valuing versatility in their O-linemen, but they will make an exception if the guy is especially good at that one spot. Chris Snee was an example of that. A Pro Bowl right guard, but probably just a journeyman at any other position (except maybe center, we'll never know). That could be how they see McKethan and maybe why he flew under the radar with so many draftniks who viewed his positional limitation as relegating him to the undrafted pool. I know there is mention of him at tackle because of his size, but I think that's limited to right tackle (rather than being the backup swing tackle on game day, he could back up both right guard and right tackle, with Neal switching to left tackle and McKethan taking over at right tackle if Thomas were to get injured during a game). I think if he had starter capability at right tackle, he wouldn't've spent all his college years at right guard. Off the top of my bald head, I can't think of a single case of a guy spending his college career at guard and becoming a quality starter at tackle as a pro.

It all makes sense to me now.
At that point in the draft his size must have been  
Rudy5757 : 5/16/2022 9:03 am : link
the deciding factor. They did a lot of work on Ezudo and in turn got to see a lot of McKethan and probably thought he was a guy they could work with. Hes probably a PS guy but with the way the PS is used now I think he will see his way onto the 53 at some point
When you get to the late rounds of the draft  
BigBlue7 : 5/16/2022 9:05 am : link
the ability to stash a guy on the practice squad definitely plays into the decision.

There might be a guy in the 7th round that you had a 5th round grade on, but you don't have room for him on the 53 and that someone will likely grab him off your practice squad so you go in another direction
RE: When you get to the late rounds of the draft  
Mike in NY : 5/16/2022 9:24 am : link
In comment 15709890 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
the ability to stash a guy on the practice squad definitely plays into the decision.

There might be a guy in the 7th round that you had a 5th round grade on, but you don't have room for him on the 53 and that someone will likely grab him off your practice squad so you go in another direction


Yep, you have a Quincy Roche situation. Late in the draft when a team has a litany of players with the same grade the two important considerations appear to be (1) roster depth for the reasons you said and (2) how many at that position remain on your board. If you have a lot of one position on the board you might bypass that position until UDFA even if you have less roster depth there. I am surprised they didn't take a QB if one was on their board with the same grade as McKethan because it seems like they had plenty of OL they thought merited a try out.
Giants have a lot of short term dudes on the interior OL  
JonC : 5/16/2022 9:44 am : link
they're trying to build depth, competition, and see who sticks as these one year contracts end, injuries heal or don't, and who earns starting jobs versus who are depth players. Right now, the only thing(s) you could suggest are givens are Neal and Thomas in terms of starters with a future.
Really interested to see him play in preseason  
Heisenberg : 5/16/2022 10:04 am : link
He's a big man with good athleticism. Interesting to see what his ceiling might be.
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