This is the indirect answer to your question as to if the Giants win with Simms in 1990:
"Elliott missed eight games to injury in the middle of the 1990 season, with the team averaging 149.9 rushing yards with him and 111.8 rushing yards without him."
Jumbo was also likely a far better pass blocker than Eric Moore, who replaced him at left tackle during that stretch.
If Jumbo never goes down that year the Giants could have been 14-2 or better, and had home field advantage throughout the playoffs.
It was the o-line's eventual return to form that made the run with Hoss possible, and what simultaneously casts a shadow on Phil's performance that year. Phil was super-efficient and clutch. Of course the Giants could have won it if Phil stayed healthy.
Would he have made a difference in the 1st loss of the season in Philly after a 10-0 start? Unlikely, that was the Giants worst game of the season and they got beat bad in a place Parcells' Giants struggled in the Vet against the Buddy Ryan Eagles.
So would he have made a difference in the 7-3 loss on MNF to the Niners? Maybe. Simms was sacked 4 times, but that was a defensive struggle all the way. If Simms' late pass in the end zone wasn't just tipped away, Giants win 10-7.
Net/Net, in my opinion, the Giants basically finished the regular season the same with or without Jumbo. But for the ground and pound, especially vs Bears & Bills, he did play a huge role in helping win it all in the playoff run and played better than I think Eric Moore would have.
Hoss was the change of pace that made that run work in the end...
Strange, but I have the exact opposite impression... that Jeff Hostetler should have been the MVP.
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a few years ago and came away feeling that we won in spite of Hoss rather than because of him.
Strange, but I have the exact opposite impression... that Jeff Hostetler should have been the MVP.
Yeah, I gather that not many would share that opinion and I don't remember details of the game to argue for that opinion, I just remember the feeling I had as I watched it and when it was done.
I don't necessarily feel like Hostetler over Simms was an egregious mistake on Handley's part (he made plenty of others), but not trading the one who didn't start probably was.
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a few years ago and came away feeling that we won in spite of Hoss rather than because of him.
Strange, but I have the exact opposite impression... that Jeff Hostetler should have been the MVP.
Same thoughts about Hoss. He was fantastic when he needed to be. The guy took a beating from a very good Bills defense. Anderson was fantastic too, but Hoss should have been the MVP.
Because against SF and Buffalo, mobility was huge. Hoss obviously was not better than Phil, but situationally, AT THAT TIME, he was exactly what we needed to take it all, imo..No way AT THAT TIME, do we win it all with Simms as I see/saw it..
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In comment 15709017 River Mike said:
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a few years ago and came away feeling that we won in spite of Hoss rather than because of him.
Strange, but I have the exact opposite impression... that Jeff Hostetler should have been the MVP.
Same thoughts about Hoss. He was fantastic when he needed to be. The guy took a beating from a very good Bills defense. Anderson was fantastic too, but Hoss should have been the MVP.
Lost in all the hoopla of "controlling the clock" and OJ running the ball, Hoss had to convert 7 third-and-longs on their scoring drives (granted, Mark Ingram did most of the work on one of them). If he misses just one, they might not win that game.
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a few years ago and came away feeling that we won in spite of Hoss rather than because of him.
Strange, but I have the exact opposite impression... that Jeff Hostetler should have been the MVP.
I agree. Simms would have fumbled on the Bruce Smith safety. Hoss holding onto that ball was the difference in the game.
Do we win if Simms never went down? We will never know (who cares- we got A SB title).
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In comment 15709017 River Mike said:
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a few years ago and came away feeling that we won in spite of Hoss rather than because of him.
Strange, but I have the exact opposite impression... that Jeff Hostetler should have been the MVP.
I agree. Simms would have fumbled on the Bruce Smith safety. Hoss holding onto that ball was the difference in the game.
But you can't say that play even happens if Simms is playing. The offensive play calling would have been different. And even if every play was called the same way, you can't know if they would have been in that situation.
Does Millen's opinion carry more weight than the average BBIer? Absolutely!
Has every opinion that Millen ever had been borne out as FACT? Absolutely NOT!
Let's not forget that this guy was a total disaster as the Lions' CEO/GM (31-81 record). Given that, I think we can all agree that some of his opinions and judgements were flat out wrong.
When I think of that Super Bowl I think of...
OJ Andreson taking over the game
The Giants D holding down the Bills O
Mark Ingram's 3rd down catch and run
And THEN I think of Hoss
Let's also not forget that in his only Super Bowl appearance Simms went 22 of 25 for 268 yards and three touchdowns. So Simms might have lit it up again.
Of course we'll never know if Simms could have won that second Super Bowl. But I'm tired of hearing people stating that the Giants were better off with their backup QB.
The Bills O only had the ball for 19 min and ran out of time in the end (just one more play could've gotten Norwood into his range).
It was the Giants OL that largely enabled the SB record 41 minutes of TOP. Of course some individual plays by Hoss, OJ and Ingram helped, but as a unit the OL was pretty great that day.
Controlling the TOP was great strategy and I think the SB TOP record will never be broken.
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In comment 15709017 River Mike said:
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a few years ago and came away feeling that we won in spite of Hoss rather than because of him.
Strange, but I have the exact opposite impression... that Jeff Hostetler should have been the MVP.
I agree. Simms would have fumbled on the Bruce Smith safety. Hoss holding onto that ball was the difference in the game.
how do you know he would have stumbled the same way? Or would not have thrown it away quickly to avoid the sack?
The Bills O only had the ball for 19 min and ran out of time in the end (just one more play could've gotten Norwood into his range).
It was the Giants OL that largely enabled the SB record 41 minutes of TOP. Of course some individual plays by Hoss, OJ and Ingram helped, but as a unit the OL was pretty great that day.
Controlling the TOP was great strategy and I think the SB TOP record will never be broken.
Agree, but Hoss’ Legs/mobility, was also responsible in part for that record TOP, imv