I mean, not to be a stiff prick, but who cares if we kept pace with the other shitty teams in the NFC East? And further, even as a broader question of “did we get better than where we were under Getty and his coaches”, I mean, could we have gotten any worse? Giants are like one of the three worst teams in the NFL.
Lawrence Tynes had some Tweet the other day about how Schoen and Dabs are “building the right way” for a “winning culture” and some such praise. Yeah? My question is how in the heck do we know what they’re building when we haven’t played any games? And if that seems unfair or like I’m not playing the game that’s called, okay. But this team has been through so many fits and starts, so many coaches and GMs and coordinators and players. It’s 10 years at the bottom of the NFL. Talk is cheap and we’ve heard it all before.
So yeah, I like the draft and I really like the Schoen hire so far. In that sense, maybe we did keep pace with the other front offices and GMs in the NFCE and NFL. Are we as good as the Iggles? Nope. Dallas? Hard to say. WFT? Idk…
Regarding Dabs? Who can say? He had Josh Allen in Buffalo and most people think he’s the best QB1 in the league now. Let’s see what Dabs can do with a Giants offense that includes an oft injured turn over prone QB and an oft injured RB1 that can’t pass pro and the mysterious Yung Joka and some high potential Ts and then a bunch of question marks. For all the talk about a modern offense, there’s still not much talent.
1) bring front office (decision makers) into current century and add an element of a cohesive management group including coaches
2) bring a modern offense (one that doesn't set playmakers up for failure)
3) at long last, construct an NFL caliber OL
4) with personnel and scheme, advance the defense to be more attack oriented rather than a bend and then inevitably break approach
5) be fiscally responsible
I like what they did in all of these areas. As currently constructed, this is not a contender (far from it), but I finally like the foundation that has been put into place.
Totally agree.
RE: If you are on the DJ is a steaming pile of crap bandwagon
You think the Giants will be lucky to win 6 games. If you think Jones is a serviceable QB who will be better with an improved OL and healthy weapons, you think the Giants have a chance to be a .500 team.
Personally, I fall in line with Colin@gbn. If the Giants can stay healthy and Jones remains upright, I think this team can approach .500 with an coaching staff that knows what they are doing.
I actually have high hopes for Jones, but realistically we have to take into account the neck injury. The NFL is a no-breaks given league- teams will be aiming for that neck on any hit.
The OL is vastly more talented than it has been in years- BUT with 4 new starters, it will take time to jell and learn how to anticipate your line-mates moves and thinking. There will be mistakes and big blow-up plays- with bigs hits on Barkley and Jones.
THAT’S why Daboll wants a quick hitting offense this season- get the ball out fast to minimize the hits.
Unfortunately, teams will crowd the LOS until the Giants show they can stop the rush and can burn teams with quick strikes.
Also remember that Jones’ biggest weakness is his processing speed. Unless he has learned to speed that up, he’s going to hold the ball too long and turnovers. A better offensive line doesn’t help if he holds the ball.
There are others who injuries could make things very bad. There’s nothing behind Barkley. Losing Blake Martinez would hurt the defense. If Leonard Williams went down, the DL would likely decline greatly.
Which gets me to the #1 reason why this will not be as good a team (in terms of wins) as many hope- there simply is next to no meaningful depth at any position. Sure, there are some nice fill-ins- but when (not if) injuries occur, the replacement guys just aren’t good enough to compete and win.
I think it'll be us & WTF battling for the division
I'm thinking the timeline looks something like this:
2022: 5-12ish
2023: Turn over the rest of Gettleman's roster, draft a QB, win 6-9 games with the rookie QB
2024: Compete for a playoff spot
That's if everything goes right, there are no key injuries, etc. If we hit a home run with the rookie QB pick maybe that gets moved up a year.
But I think we've got to give these guys one mulligan year just to get rid of Gettleman's garbage and install a framework for future growth (which we're seeing with all the front office turnover).
How is that long Eagles rebuild looking? They were 9-8 last year and made the playoffs in a year they had a ton of dead cap money. It was supposed to be a throw away rebuild year.
I think the league is meant for quick turnarounds. It shows just how inept the Giants have been.
As much as I'd like to throw a tomato at Roseman's face, he's got more team building talent himself than every character running the 2018-2021 Giants combined.
As much as I'd like to throw a tomato at Roseman's face, he's got more team building talent himself than every character running the 2018-2021 Giants combined.
Exactly. If done well, teams can turn it around fast in the NFL. I simplify it to the QB position. The Giants just haven’t had good QB play since 2015. Every move by the prior front office was just horrific coupled with bad QB play.
1) bring front office (decision makers) into current century and add an element of a cohesive management group including coaches
2) bring a modern offense (one that doesn't set playmakers up for failure)
3) at long last, construct an NFL caliber OL
4) with personnel and scheme, advance the defense to be more attack oriented rather than a bend and then inevitably break approach
5) be fiscally responsible
I like what they did in all of these areas. As currently constructed, this is not a contender (far from it), but I finally like the foundation that has been put into place.
I agree with everything but your conclusion. I believe when you add all those things up and sprinkle in some good luck in the injury department you absolutely do get a contender, certainly for the NFC East title.
I agree with Colin's take. The truth of the matter is we really don't know what we have in this team. There are a lot of unknowns. It starts with Jones, of course, but the list goes on from there. How close is Barkley to the guy we saw in 2018? Is Golladay a plus player or was his hey day in Detroit a thing of the past? Toney has a ton of talent, it' undeniable, but is he coachable? Does Wan'Dale Robinson's game translate to the NFL or is he limited to role player? Is Neal the real deal and can he quickly establish himself as a Pro Bowl right tackle? And then there's the defense with a similar list of unknowns only to be answered on the football field. And of course the biggest unknown of all, which applies not just to the Giants but to the rest of the NFC East, injuries. I'm looking forward to the season and hopeful that some of those unknowns up above will go our way. Of course some of you see it this way... - ( New Window )
From a front office perspective we have done more than keep pace
Joe Schoen as the new GM is a major addition plus Daboll and his coaching staff. Major upgrades over last year. Schoen currently in process of upgrading the scouting department. Major upgrade over last year.
Look on the field the Giants imv are in a total rebuild.It will take another couple of years before we compete for the NFCE title.
The arrow is definitely pointing up imv. 2024 should be the year if all things go well in the draft and free agency that we start kicking some major ass.
We all know that some rookies acclimate quickly, while others take
longer. It took Andrew Thomas a year to develop into a solid left tackle. Will it be like that with Neal? Azeez had a good rookie season. Will Thibs also play well as a rookie. If we 'keep pace' with the NFC East it will be because our rookies played well out of the gate. We had to cut or not resign some good veteran players, so we're depending on our rookies to start out well.
Did the rest of the NFC East do enough to keep up with the New York Football Giants?! We’ve had that division basement locked down for so long I set up a man-cave in there!
Seriously, though: We’re starting another new era and this one seems to have potential. But it’s year one. Eagles see year two and just got AJ Brown who our secondary will def have trouble defending without Bradberry. Washington is in year two and just got a new name! Tough to beat that. The Cowboys have the self destruct button primed for this year’s NFC championship game. I think we’re all going to be in the exact position we were last season. But I will say, the Giants have the most potential to surprise a lot of people. IF Daboll and Kafka can work their magic on DJ AND IF the line comes together quicker than expected, I’d say we did MORE than enough to keep up or even MOVE up.
As long as Daniel Jones can stay healthy along with the offense
Jones is not a Top 8 elite QB but when he has time and a run game going he is very effective.
Agree. The top question mark with Jones is his ability to stay healthy. If he misses significant time this year, it almost won't even matter how well he plays when he's actually able to play. But if he stays healthy, the next challenge will be to see how well he takes to Daboll and Kafka's offense. Clear THAT hurdle, and I actually think he has a great chance of sticking around for 2023 and beyond.
Moving the Chains on Sirius had an interesting point today. If you remove the 4 QBs from the rosters, which NFC East team has the best roster? The Giants are probably still last. Dallas and Philly 🤮 have better rosters, i think it's a toss up between Commanders and Giants for the bottom. And that's without the QBs factoring in.
As UberAlias said above, it's about building a foundation.
This team still has to answer a number of questions, most notably (but hardly exclusively) at QB. There were big decisions that had to be made this year regarding personnel, and there will be more that will have to be made next year. When the smoke clears, I expect the 2024 Giants to look radically different from the 2022 version.
And then the question won't be have the Giants done enough to keep pace with the NFC East, but have the other teams in the division done enough to keep pace with the Giants.
RE: As long as Daniel Jones can stay healthy along with the offense
Jones is not a Top 8 elite QB but when he has time and a run game going he is very effective.
Have to score touchdowns. Red zone, broken plays, wide open plays, unexpected plays, whatever. Have to get the offense in the end zone whether he has ample time and a run game or not.
Lawrence Tynes had some Tweet the other day about how Schoen and Dabs are “building the right way” for a “winning culture” and some such praise. Yeah? My question is how in the heck do we know what they’re building when we haven’t played any games? And if that seems unfair or like I’m not playing the game that’s called, okay. But this team has been through so many fits and starts, so many coaches and GMs and coordinators and players. It’s 10 years at the bottom of the NFL. Talk is cheap and we’ve heard it all before.
So yeah, I like the draft and I really like the Schoen hire so far. In that sense, maybe we did keep pace with the other front offices and GMs in the NFCE and NFL. Are we as good as the Iggles? Nope. Dallas? Hard to say. WFT? Idk…
Regarding Dabs? Who can say? He had Josh Allen in Buffalo and most people think he’s the best QB1 in the league now. Let’s see what Dabs can do with a Giants offense that includes an oft injured turn over prone QB and an oft injured RB1 that can’t pass pro and the mysterious Yung Joka and some high potential Ts and then a bunch of question marks. For all the talk about a modern offense, there’s still not much talent.
Anyway, we suck until we don’t. Hope that helps.
1) bring front office (decision makers) into current century and add an element of a cohesive management group including coaches
2) bring a modern offense (one that doesn't set playmakers up for failure)
3) at long last, construct an NFL caliber OL
4) with personnel and scheme, advance the defense to be more attack oriented rather than a bend and then inevitably break approach
5) be fiscally responsible
I like what they did in all of these areas. As currently constructed, this is not a contender (far from it), but I finally like the foundation that has been put into place.
Totally agree.
Personally, I fall in line with Colin@gbn. If the Giants can stay healthy and Jones remains upright, I think this team can approach .500 with an coaching staff that knows what they are doing.
I actually have high hopes for Jones, but realistically we have to take into account the neck injury. The NFL is a no-breaks given league- teams will be aiming for that neck on any hit.
The OL is vastly more talented than it has been in years- BUT with 4 new starters, it will take time to jell and learn how to anticipate your line-mates moves and thinking. There will be mistakes and big blow-up plays- with bigs hits on Barkley and Jones.
THAT’S why Daboll wants a quick hitting offense this season- get the ball out fast to minimize the hits.
Unfortunately, teams will crowd the LOS until the Giants show they can stop the rush and can burn teams with quick strikes.
Also remember that Jones’ biggest weakness is his processing speed. Unless he has learned to speed that up, he’s going to hold the ball too long and turnovers. A better offensive line doesn’t help if he holds the ball.
There are others who injuries could make things very bad. There’s nothing behind Barkley. Losing Blake Martinez would hurt the defense. If Leonard Williams went down, the DL would likely decline greatly.
Which gets me to the #1 reason why this will not be as good a team (in terms of wins) as many hope- there simply is next to no meaningful depth at any position. Sure, there are some nice fill-ins- but when (not if) injuries occur, the replacement guys just aren’t good enough to compete and win.
2022: 5-12ish
2023: Turn over the rest of Gettleman's roster, draft a QB, win 6-9 games with the rookie QB
2024: Compete for a playoff spot
That's if everything goes right, there are no key injuries, etc. If we hit a home run with the rookie QB pick maybe that gets moved up a year.
But I think we've got to give these guys one mulligan year just to get rid of Gettleman's garbage and install a framework for future growth (which we're seeing with all the front office turnover).
Yup 3-year rebuild.
No long rebuilds - ( New Window )
I think the league is meant for quick turnarounds. It shows just how inept the Giants have been.
Smart front offices can win quickly.
Exactly. If done well, teams can turn it around fast in the NFL. I simplify it to the QB position. The Giants just haven’t had good QB play since 2015. Every move by the prior front office was just horrific coupled with bad QB play.
1) bring front office (decision makers) into current century and add an element of a cohesive management group including coaches
2) bring a modern offense (one that doesn't set playmakers up for failure)
3) at long last, construct an NFL caliber OL
4) with personnel and scheme, advance the defense to be more attack oriented rather than a bend and then inevitably break approach
5) be fiscally responsible
I like what they did in all of these areas. As currently constructed, this is not a contender (far from it), but I finally like the foundation that has been put into place.
I agree with Colin's take. The truth of the matter is we really don't know what we have in this team. There are a lot of unknowns. It starts with Jones, of course, but the list goes on from there. How close is Barkley to the guy we saw in 2018? Is Golladay a plus player or was his hey day in Detroit a thing of the past? Toney has a ton of talent, it' undeniable, but is he coachable? Does Wan'Dale Robinson's game translate to the NFL or is he limited to role player? Is Neal the real deal and can he quickly establish himself as a Pro Bowl right tackle? And then there's the defense with a similar list of unknowns only to be answered on the football field. And of course the biggest unknown of all, which applies not just to the Giants but to the rest of the NFC East, injuries. I'm looking forward to the season and hopeful that some of those unknowns up above will go our way.
Of course some of you see it this way... - ( New Window )
Look on the field the Giants imv are in a total rebuild.It will take another couple of years before we compete for the NFCE title.
The arrow is definitely pointing up imv. 2024 should be the year if all things go well in the draft and free agency that we start kicking some major ass.
Seriously, though: We’re starting another new era and this one seems to have potential. But it’s year one. Eagles see year two and just got AJ Brown who our secondary will def have trouble defending without Bradberry. Washington is in year two and just got a new name! Tough to beat that. The Cowboys have the self destruct button primed for this year’s NFC championship game. I think we’re all going to be in the exact position we were last season. But I will say, the Giants have the most potential to surprise a lot of people. IF Daboll and Kafka can work their magic on DJ AND IF the line comes together quicker than expected, I’d say we did MORE than enough to keep up or even MOVE up.
Jones is not a Top 8 elite QB but when he has time and a run game going he is very effective.
Jones is not a Top 8 elite QB but when he has time and a run game going he is very effective.
Agree. The top question mark with Jones is his ability to stay healthy. If he misses significant time this year, it almost won't even matter how well he plays when he's actually able to play. But if he stays healthy, the next challenge will be to see how well he takes to Daboll and Kafka's offense. Clear THAT hurdle, and I actually think he has a great chance of sticking around for 2023 and beyond.
This team still has to answer a number of questions, most notably (but hardly exclusively) at QB. There were big decisions that had to be made this year regarding personnel, and there will be more that will have to be made next year. When the smoke clears, I expect the 2024 Giants to look radically different from the 2022 version.
And then the question won't be have the Giants done enough to keep pace with the NFC East, but have the other teams in the division done enough to keep pace with the Giants.
Jones is not a Top 8 elite QB but when he has time and a run game going he is very effective.
Have to score touchdowns. Red zone, broken plays, wide open plays, unexpected plays, whatever. Have to get the offense in the end zone whether he has ample time and a run game or not.
Otherwise, he's finished as a starting QB...