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Myths and facts about offensive tackles for the 2022 Season

Solum Aeternum : 5/16/2022 3:33 pm
Big Blue View, Myth's and questions being asked:

Do the Giants now have a good offensive line?
Baldwin projects that the Giants will have the 24th-best pass protecting OL in the NFL. His prediction uses 2021 Pro Football Focus grades for the projected starters from Ourlads, except for rookies, for which he uses historical year 1 data for previously drafted offensive lineman in different positions in the draft. It tries to correct for players returning from injury this year. It produces a predicted expected points added (PEPA) for each OL, weighted by the importance of each position (T > G > C); that number is the basis for the ranking.

The chart also shows the percentile ranking of each position group. For the Giants, tackle is now a position of relative strength with Andrew Thomas and Evan Neal, though it is not yet projected by Baldwin to be among the best. Why? Because first-year offensive tackles often take time to adjust. There are many more poor-to-mediocre right tackles than left tackles getting a lot of playing time in the NFL, and there are almost twice as many very good-to-excellent LTs than RTs. Obviously the NFL puts what it considers its best OTs on the left side as a general rule.

Are good pass blockers also good run blockers?
There is indeed some positive correlation between run blocking and pass protection prowess, but there is tremendous scatter. Run blocking does seem to be the most basic skill required of an OT in the NFL: There are no offensive tackles getting significant snaps with run block grades much under 40, but there are seven with pass block grades lower than that. (The player with the awful pass and run block grades in the lower left is none other than ex-Giant Bobby Hart.) Restricting the chart to tackles who played at least 500 snaps gives a similar result.

The bottom line is that while there are plenty of offensive tackles who both pass and run block well, quite a few of the best pass blockers are not good run blockers and vice-versa. The Giants are hoping they got the most versatile OT of the class in Neal, and that both run- and pass-blocking will be improved in 2022.

Does a team need a good OL to reach the playoffs?
Many Giants fans assume that until the offensive line is fixed, the Giants cannot be a playoff team. The Cincinnati Bengals have pretty much proven that not to be true. The Detroit Lions have shown that a team can be bad even with a great OL. But on average, do playoff teams have better offensive lines than non-playoff teams?
The cluster of points on the diagram now shifts up and to the right, and the correlation between run and pass blocking is stronger, so in some sense there is indeed better offensive tackle play on playoff teams than non-playoff teams. But there is still large scatter - there were plenty of mediocre OTs in the post-season last year. So if the OL is not completely fixed this year, don’t despair

Are left tackles better than right tackles?
This is a subject of much disagreement among fans. Historically it was thought that teams placed their best OT on the left side, where the defense’s best edge defender was usually lined up, because that is the blind side of most quarterbacks. But these days, edge defenders move around from one side to the other, QBs will roll out to either side, and some feel that the distinction no longer matters. In particular, fans who lamented the Giants taking Andrew Thomas over Tristan Wirfs in 2020 seemed unconcerned that Wirfs played only right tackle in college and plays only right tackle for Tampa Bay.

Link - ( New Window )
Unrelated to Giants ranking here  
JB_in_DC : 5/16/2022 3:51 pm : link
because I will believe their offensive line will be mediocre to bad until its not, but this analysis is one of the sillier exercises I've ever seen. PEPA? lmao

Guys like Baldwin should be writing about fantasy football.
Almost projected to  
Pepe LePugh : 5/16/2022 4:11 pm : link
vault out of the bottom 10 OLs!! I assume Glowinski and Feliciano are projected starters. Who’s the other G?
RE: Almost projected to  
Solum Aeternum : 5/16/2022 4:19 pm : link
In comment 15710497 Pepe LePugh said:
vault out of the bottom 10 OLs!! I assume Glowinski and Feliciano are projected starters. Who’s the other G?

Garcia and Ezeudu battling out
What compounded our issues  
Rudy5757 : 5/16/2022 4:24 pm : link
was a lack of consistent talent at WR and then the last 6 games with an abysmal QB. People point to the Bengals as having a bad OL but they also have one of the top WR corps in the league and a solid running back.

Combine a bad OL, with sub par WRs and a sub par RB with a terrible offensive scheme and you get one of the worst O's in the league.

Improving the scheme and the OL will automatically make the whole unit better. Having a healthy Barkley will help open things too. If we stay relatively healthy we could have a good season, if the OL gets hit hard like last year we seem to have a little more functional depth but who knows. It may start out tough for the OL but they should get better as the season rolls on.
Seems fair  
Spider43 : 5/16/2022 4:32 pm : link
I'm cool with it.
So he's using the same PFF grades  
Snablats : 5/16/2022 4:50 pm : link
That say the safety we signed over the weekend was rated 8th but somehow went undrafted while 19 safeties were picked
Don’t need myths or facts or one-off examples like the  
Jimmy Googs : 5/16/2022 4:51 pm : link
Cincinnati Bengals to tell me what has to happen for the Giants OL to have a chance at success.

The Giants just simply have to listen to Klaatu and me far more often…
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/16/2022 5:06 pm : link
of that sounds like gobbledygook.
Even Before the Draft  
Samiam : 5/16/2022 5:18 pm : link
The line would have been better than last years OL. Maybe a lot better. And that’s with Gono being an upgrade over Solder which is not saying much. Glowinski over Hernandez is a lot. My mother in law over Skura is a lot. Add in Neal and possibly the NC guy and even Lemioux , and it’s better. Could be a lot better if Neal is as predicted and Thomas continues to improve.
24 is fair for now  
Breeze_94 : 5/16/2022 5:57 pm : link
Thomas has 1 good year under his belt, Neal hasn't seen an NFL field. Glowinski and Feliciano are improvements, but nothing to get too excited over.

If Thomas and Neal are as good as I think they can be, and one of Ezeudu/Lemiuex steps up as a competent starter at LG, I believe this can be a top 10 unit by the end of the year.
Biggest question is center  
kelly : 5/16/2022 6:57 pm : link
Not convinced we have a plus player at that position.
This who dialogue about pointing to the Bengals as proof you don't  
PatersonPlank : 5/16/2022 9:21 pm : link
need a good OL is not something I agree with. An OL has to do some good things, it has to have a strength it can lean on. The Bengals for example were a poor pass blocking team, but Mixon was the 3rd leading rushing back last season. He had over 1,200 yds. Also they had a great receiving corp and rising QB, so the OL issues were masked against a lot of teams. It was only against the top defenses that they fell apart
I don't think you can use analytics for this  
D HOS : 5/16/2022 9:36 pm : link
The analytics data define the starting line, which is understandably middle of the pack, e.g. mediocre. Compared to where they were though, it's a huge improvement. Lately, they keep starting from the back of the pack.

Success depends more on, starting from that line, individual drive and personalities, coaching, taking to that coaching, and most importantly teamwork and "gel". Plus no serious injuries which entails a certain amount of plan old luck.

No way Analytics can predict those things and IMO, those are bigger factors than where they are starting from.

I think that barring major injury, the Giants, by midseason, probably earlier, will be acknowledged to have a line ranked in the upper half of the league. Though I really don't like our human nature to rank and order things, so let's just say "better than most".
RE: Almost projected to  
Jay on the Island : 5/16/2022 9:40 pm : link
In comment 15710497 Pepe LePugh said:
vault out of the bottom 10 OLs!! I assume Glowinski and Feliciano are projected starters. Who’s the other G?

Shane Lemieux will battle Josh Ezeudu for the starting LG spot. Max Garcia will compete as well but I think the other two have the better chance of winning it.
RE: Much  
jhibb : 5/16/2022 11:22 pm : link
In comment 15710557 Eric from BBI said:
of that sounds like gobbledygook.

This line actually made me laugh out loud:
But fans often fall in love with terrific run blockers (especially the more violent ones like Ekwonu and Trevor Penning) and forget to ask whether that OT is also a good pass blocker.

I don't know if this kind of fan even exists, let alone enough of them to say "often." I certainly haven't run into one. Disregarding the pass blocking ability of an OT? Huh?

And every single comparison between the top tackles in this draft that I ever heard or read mentioned both run blocking and pass blocking.
RE: Don’t need myths or facts or one-off examples like the  
Klaatu : 5/17/2022 6:53 am : link
In comment 15710542 Jimmy Googs said:
Cincinnati Bengals to tell me what has to happen for the Giants OL to have a chance at success.

The Giants just simply have to listen to Klaatu and me far more often…

I guess you've forgotten who wanted Evan Engram instead of Ryan Ramczyk.


I feel the same way about a good offensive line as I feel about guns, fire extinguishers, and condoms. It's better to have one and not need it, than need one and not have it.
I could understand an analysis of "same" or "slightly better or worse"  
Marty in Albany : 5/17/2022 9:13 am : link
"Therefore Giants will be in the bottom quarter or bottom third of the League."

But to rank them 24th--exactly 24th--is arrogant twaddle.
The Bengals have a quarterback who is arguably elite  
Gruber : 5/17/2022 9:19 am : link
and IMHO the best young wide receiver out there, certainly better than the previous year's class.
But with a decent offensive line, they could have actually won a Superbowl.
At least the Giants appear to have a high caliber o-line coach.  
Ivan15 : 5/17/2022 9:41 pm : link
Better than the last two regimes. And i can’t imagine Johnson and Daboll trading punches.
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