I’ve been vocal last season in my support of Judge. He did nothing to warrant a third year based on his coaching down the stretch, but he walked into a burning building when he took the HC job here. And let’s be honest, all the reasons which are provided for Daniel Jones struggles could easily be said for Judge as HC. It’s since been reported Judge did not get along with Gettleman, no surprise there.
A few items:
-He’s looking forward, similar stuff to what he said when he coached here. No interest in reflecting on his time as NYG HC. Referred to the Giants as “somewhere else”.
-Enjoyed working with Daniel Jones.
-I have no idea what he was drinking. Must have graduated from Gatorade.
As an aside, I have no idea what Belichick is doing on the offensive side of the ball with the coaches. Having a bunch of coaches work “collaboratively” on offense seems like a bad idea, but can’t really question Belichick.
Make no mistake, I’m happy the Giants overhauled everything. But, I said multiple times heading into the 2021 season that Judge could very well be collateral damage - I just hated having a lame duck GM. Never made sense.
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On paper Schoen and Daboll appear to have built the strongest coaching staff that the Giants have had in a very long time. I still can't believe that they landed Wink Martindale.
I don't know about that...there are reports judge wanted Daboll as his OC.
It's not a stretch to say he wanted no parts of Garrett/Columbo in 2020.
They should be worried!
Judge should be back on specials.
For the love of God, I hope Mara learns to STFU. I get he's not going anywhere-people thinking the Maras are going to sell are loco-but hopefully he defers to Schoen & Daboll, makes an appearance now & again, & signs the checks.
The Maras are not to be trusted. The only good one was the late Tim Mara (Wellington's nephew who sold the team to the late Robert Preston Tisch in 1991 for younger fans), who if it wasn't for him, this organization would be the Detroit Lions.
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canary in the coal mine should have been Nate Ebner.
The canary in the coal mine should have been Marc Columbo wanting to break Juge's face.
Ultimately Judge brought in a bunch of his dipshit friends, and none of them knew jack about coaching an offense.
Shit got real, and Judge gave up.
This
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To JJ's credit, he didn't end up in the Lake Tahoe region never to be heard from again.
By way of a Jersey Turnpike rest stop
Daboll inherited a roster from a uniquely bad talent evaluation group. And a bad one year cap situation. And inherited a lame duck QB.
Both Daboll and Schoen have a lot of work to do in the next two years. If there's any scenario where ownership should exhibit patience, this is it.
Daboll has fewer groceries than Shurmur or Judge had.
Joe Judge is gone because he was not ready to be a coach at the NFL level. He was making rookie mistakes well into his second season with misunderstanding the basic rules of the game and being unable to get his team lined up.
Joe Judge wasn't the only problem with the Giants, but he was certainly more problem than solution.
he brings back quite a few of his coaches who have left. BD left him with Mangini to the Jets. Then he had some uninspiring years as OC (Cleve/Miami) before returning again as a TE coach. Off to Bama then to Buffalo and now HC NY Giants.
Maybe Judge finds a way to earn another chance.
Judge was asked if he would call plays in 2022 and said: "Look, I'll tell you directly and honestly right now, nothing has been declared or decided or voiced to me. ... In terms of who calls plays, to be honest with you, that's not the main focus right now. When Coach wants to go ahead and declare a role like that, he'll tell us."
This just screamed out to me from the ESPN article, that he's a follower by nature and not a leader. He seems to immediately go back to "let coach decide" and is submissive, immediately after rejoining his old team once he had failed.
Daboll has fewer groceries than Shurmur or Judge had.
don't agree there at all. Judge inherited literally the worst nyg D in the modern era by any metric, ppg, yards. That 2019 team gave up 28 ppg.
the offense overall was at best slightly below average but that was with the qb in a system that fit him and barkley before blowing out his knee in game 2. the starting OTs were Solder/Remmers.
the extra draft picks the new regime had also can't be understated. by pick value they got 2 drafts this year, not 1. that should/could mean 4+ guys who get to 2nd contracts compared to a typical draft year where you are hoping for 2. Obviously thibs/neal should be starting them at 2.
judge faceplanted year 2 in ways that he had direct control over but there's some re-writing of history with where the team was when he inherited it, some bad breaks he got along the way, and the fact that he did do some positive things in year 1 despite them.
Alot of non-Giants fans were poking fun at that long before we all soured on him. He’s bonkers.
I think his biggest failure was telling us that he was going to put players in a position to succeed yet it seemed like the O an D were just so basic and didnt take advantage of anyones talent.
I think his biggest failure was telling us that he was going to put players in a position to succeed yet it seemed like the O an D were just so basic and didnt take advantage of anyones talent.
completely agree with the bold. the core theme of his introduction was that he was going to hold himself and the coaches accountable to get the most out of players and in the end in most cases he got the least.
the lone exception being graham's defense year 1 which did get a few career years.
The 2018 Giants were the worst roster I'd ever seen them have. Then they got worse each year.
I believe Schoen and Daboll inherited a completely empty cupboard.
The 2018 Giants were the worst roster I'd ever seen them have. Then they got worse each year.
I believe Schoen and Daboll inherited a completely empty cupboard.
hyperbole is your brand.
Characteristic hire of a clueless football operations and management team.
your imagination stretches the limits of all you've been right about. betting against unproven coaches/qbs is pretty good odds.
3 weeks ago you said the only reason Malik Willis wasn't getting picked 5th overall was Mara's preference to have a white QB. Was that right?
Joe Judge is gone because he was not ready to be a coach at the NFL level. He was making rookie mistakes well into his second season with misunderstanding the basic rules of the game and being unable to get his team lined up.
Joe Judge wasn't the only problem with the Giants, but he was certainly more problem than solution.
+1
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The hyperbole has been the truth.
your imagination stretches the limits of all you've been right about. betting against unproven coaches/qbs is pretty good odds.
3 weeks ago you said the only reason Malik Willis wasn't getting picked 5th overall was Mara's preference to have a white QB. Was that right?
I was wrong about where he'd go, but I definitely think the Maras have a type for their franchise QB.
The proof on the roster these guys inherited will be in the pudding: how many get second contracts? I think you can set the over/under at 1.5.
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He is gone because the team continued to lose, players continued to play sloppy, disorganized ball and he was clearly losing his composure down the stretch of the season. Your leader needs to be a calming influence in tough times, not insulting other teams and acting like a victim.
Joe Judge is gone because he was not ready to be a coach at the NFL level. He was making rookie mistakes well into his second season with misunderstanding the basic rules of the game and being unable to get his team lined up.
Joe Judge wasn't the only problem with the Giants, but he was certainly more problem than solution.
+1
also a pretty good roadmap to what would constitute progress for daboll year 1.
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In comment 15711153 Go Terps said:
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The hyperbole has been the truth.
your imagination stretches the limits of all you've been right about. betting against unproven coaches/qbs is pretty good odds.
3 weeks ago you said the only reason Malik Willis wasn't getting picked 5th overall was Mara's preference to have a white QB. Was that right?
I was wrong about where he'd go, but I definitely think the Maras have a type for their franchise QB.
The proof on the roster these guys inherited will be in the pudding: how many get second contracts? I think you can set the over/under at 1.5.
well there's something you don't see every day.
i'd take the over. 2 of Thomas, McKinney, Ojulari seems pretty likely. Others seem possible (in the nearest term Love and Lawrence, who they effectively already transition tagged for next year).
another thing kind of funny in retrospect is that when they hired him they talked about how great he was in the interview without any notes and just off the cuff (which almost all cosigned with his intro conference).
and in the end it turned out that he in fact just didn't have a plan beyond all the talk. he was coaching off the cuff too.
For those of us old enough to have lived the fumble let's hope those QB sneaks lead to similar long term results for the Giants.
The fumble happened in 1978 and after that season was over was the last time the Giants changed the GM and HC at the same time. It's pretty much the last time the Giants changed out their front office and scouts. Since then up until Joe Schoen was hired pretty much everyone in the football operation was connected to the George Young tree. Even with Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll being hired as GM and HC as "outsiders" you can still play 6 degrees of George Young with them. That's how much the fumble helped the Giants in the long run. Hopefully we'll speak of the 2021 QB sneaks the same way down the road.
i'd take the over. 2 of Thomas, McKinney, Ojulari seems pretty likely. Others seem possible (in the nearest term Love and Lawrence, who they effectively already transition tagged for next year).
So after 4 years that had 32 draft picks, including 6 first rounders (3 in the top 6), 3 second rounders, and 5 third rounders...you think it's likely we keep 2 players and possibly a couple others?
And on top of that they left a bloodbath of overpriced free agents and a cap disaster.
You and I aren't far apart here. It isn't hyperbole.
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well there's something you don't see every day.
i'd take the over. 2 of Thomas, McKinney, Ojulari seems pretty likely. Others seem possible (in the nearest term Love and Lawrence, who they effectively already transition tagged for next year).
So after 4 years that had 32 draft picks, including 6 first rounders (3 in the top 6), 3 second rounders, and 5 third rounders...you think it's likely we keep 2 players and possibly a couple others?
And on top of that they left a bloodbath of overpriced free agents and a cap disaster.
You and I aren't far apart here. It isn't hyperbole.
saying you and i aren't far apart are like saying a .150 hitter isn't far from a .250 hitter isn't far from a .350 hitter. you hyperbolize (sp?) everything as the worst ever and words lose all meaning.
the almost SB champs just extended 1 of the players from those drafts to a 3 year / 30m deal and were he here he'd still be considered a loser like everyone else drafted by the previous regimes, as is currently done with players better than him still here. he's the perfect encapsulation of Joe Judge player un-development that was the antithesis of everything he claimed to be about when he was hired. his teachers apparently didn't teach much.
Hill didn't change when he went to Cincinnati everything else around him did. Just like Markus Golden when he went back to AZ. and Zeitler in BAL. with some obvious exceptions players in general are far more replaceable than competent coaching. there is no way to overcome bad coaching - inheriting a bad situation as judge did wasn't a good excuse for him and it won't be for Daboll either.
In retrospect, it was such a crazy series of events that led to his hire. Here was a guy who had never been a HC before at any level and was being courted by his alma mater Miss State to be their next HC. At the same time, the other candidate, Matt Rhule, timed the market so perfectly that he had a brand new, hyper-aggressive owner making him an offer he just couldn't refuse.
So, in a panic, because he didn't want to match Tepper's offer (rightfully) for Rhule and fearing we could lose out on the next potential next Vince Lombardi or Bill Belichick, Mara goes all out for the most unproven, high-risk candidate available.
As it turns out, it was a hire based on style over substance because the only good trait that Judge possessed was the ability to sound the part. And on at a magna cum laude level...
I think he got himself fired last August and September when by his actions he basically determined the preseason was unnecessary and then his team went out and started 0-3 vs the most manageable 3 game stretch of the entire season.
A stretch of games he/they absolutely had to have and a stretch of games that if they had gone minimum of 2-1 they would likely have been in the wildcard conversation at least up until Jones got hurt. He needed to avoid the now seemingly annual 0-for-Sept/Oct. start and he had the schedule to do it. He and Graham couldn't get their shit together, especially on defense. It was unforgivable. When the ball sailed through the uprights for that re-kick on TNF after the penalty, I had that sinking feeling in my stomach of what we were in for.
Thank you, Football Gods.
Judge Coached not to lose. That communicated FEAR, that is a BIG downer.
It had a disastrous effect on the psyche of players who had experienced success in the past who saw their performance level go down the toilet - Pro Bowler Evan "he hate me" Engram, Hernandez, Logan, Bradberry, Slayton and mostly Dan Jones (who played like a scared little puppy).
Then injuries destroyed the small edge the team had - Saquon coming off major ACL then a horrible ankle injury, Jabrill Peppers ACL, Gates, broken leg, Martinez ACL, Shep, Achilles, etc.
And this is coming from someone who liked him. Very disappointed in him; he folded like a cheap tent.
I also question some of his roster building. Back to front on D. Let Hill go. All the special team picks and wanted to play a perimeter game on offense. Bad strategy for a first time HC. Establish the lines and physicality then build out especially with a young QB. BB, Parcells and all went this route as first priority and for some reason the BB assistants get too smart for themselves.
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Our version of the Butt Fumble
Those two inexcusable/inexplicable WB sneaks cemented that
+1
Those two "QB sneaks" were the low point in the history of the franchise.
Yeah I think he was likely to stay until the press conferences. Mara doesn't mind his coaches losing, but publicly embarrassing themselves is another matter.
Jon I guess, but then again the slow start creates the pressure cooker scenario that caused the meltdowns. Judge knew the walls were caving in.
Those two "QB sneaks" were the low point in the history of the franchise.
Then what makes Judge even more of a joke was his pussy ass whining the season prior about "playing 60 minutes of complete football" because the Eagles didn't win the division for the Giants.
I knew he was a clown after that whiny and I got shit for it. Oops.
I also question some of his roster building. Back to front on D. Let Hill go. All the special team picks and wanted to play a perimeter game on offense. Bad strategy for a first time HC. Establish the lines and physicality then build out especially with a young QB. BB, Parcells and all went this route as first priority and for some reason the BB assistants get too smart for themselves.
We've been doing back to front on defense for years, which was one of the reasons why I've been skeptical of Martindale.
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the punts, the awful gameplans and game management etc that pissed off and sparked fan outrage that reached Tisch and luckily sparked him to take action.
Jon I guess, but then again the slow start creates the pressure cooker scenario that caused the meltdowns. Judge knew the walls were caving in.
How in the fuck are you coaching in the NFL and not only preparing a game plan against the Bears like that? The few times you pass it was a sttrip sack on the first play and a Glennon bone headed int; you don't think passing on first down with some little shit short passes is in order and some play action??? He stuck with that shit game plan?
In retrospect, it was such a crazy series of events that led to his hire. Here was a guy who had never been a HC before at any level and was being courted by his alma mater Miss State to be their next HC. At the same time, the other candidate, Matt Rhule, timed the market so perfectly that he had a brand new, hyper-aggressive owner making him an offer he just couldn't refuse.
So, in a panic, because he didn't want to match Tepper's offer (rightfully) for Rhule and fearing we could lose out on the next potential next Vince Lombardi or Bill Belichick, Mara goes all out for the most unproven, high-risk candidate available.
As it turns out, it was a hire based on style over substance because the only good trait that Judge possessed was the ability to sound the part. And on at a magna cum laude level...
Very good post. It kind of works both ways - while I think Judge was set up to fail here, it’s not like he had other opportunities either as NFL HC. If not for the Giants, he’s nowhere near being a NFL HC. He’d probably be at Mississippi State. I’m sure Judge is bitter about that, but the Giants have set him up financially for life and hired him despite not being qualified.
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He is gone because the team continued to lose, players continued to play sloppy, disorganized ball and he was clearly losing his composure down the stretch of the season. Your leader needs to be a calming influence in tough times, not insulting other teams and acting like a victim.
Joe Judge is gone because he was not ready to be a coach at the NFL level. He was making rookie mistakes well into his second season with misunderstanding the basic rules of the game and being unable to get his team lined up.
Joe Judge wasn't the only problem with the Giants, but he was certainly more problem than solution.
+1
this ^