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Joe Judge addressed the media today as Pats offensive asst.

Sean : 5/16/2022 6:52 pm
I’ve been vocal last season in my support of Judge. He did nothing to warrant a third year based on his coaching down the stretch, but he walked into a burning building when he took the HC job here. And let’s be honest, all the reasons which are provided for Daniel Jones struggles could easily be said for Judge as HC. It’s since been reported Judge did not get along with Gettleman, no surprise there.

A few items:
-He’s looking forward, similar stuff to what he said when he coached here. No interest in reflecting on his time as NYG HC. Referred to the Giants as “somewhere else”.
-Enjoyed working with Daniel Jones.
-I have no idea what he was drinking. Must have graduated from Gatorade.

As an aside, I have no idea what Belichick is doing on the offensive side of the ball with the coaches. Having a bunch of coaches work “collaboratively” on offense seems like a bad idea, but can’t really question Belichick.

Make no mistake, I’m happy the Giants overhauled everything. But, I said multiple times heading into the 2021 season that Judge could very well be collateral damage - I just hated having a lame duck GM. Never made sense.
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I wish the dude the best...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/16/2022 6:57 pm : link
I'd be shocked if he ever sniffed another NFL HC gig again though. And that post Bears game presser...we're about 5 months or so from it & I still have no idea WTF he was going on about.
I think Judge was just put in a bad  
Biteymax22 : 5/16/2022 7:05 pm : link
Situation here.

Hired a little early, maybe needed a couple more seasons coaching on offense first.

Handed a horrible roster with no online.

Bad GM to work with.

OC forced (maybe???) on him who was coaching in the 1940’s/


He’ll resurface as a coach at one point. I don’t think he’ll be the next Bill B, but he’ll be a better coach his next time around.
He'll be aight in his second stint there  
Spider43 : 5/16/2022 7:09 pm : link
He's got a better QB.
I could see him being successful as a college HC -  
Del Shofner : 5/16/2022 7:09 pm : link
in the NFL I think he's unlikely to get another HC gig. Never know, though. Nothing against the guy. I certainly drank the Koolaid at the time.
The way he handled a bad situation down the road  
mattlawson : 5/16/2022 7:09 pm : link
The rants. The same talking points every week. No progress. The tough guy facade. It doesn’t and didn’t play well

Bye
Biteymax.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/16/2022 7:10 pm : link
I'll forever be convinced Garrett was all but forced upon JJ by Mara. As usual, great job Johnny Boy.

I think JJ could end up being a solid college coach one day, but again...I'll be floored if he ever becomes an NFL coach one day. He-and the organization-were a laughingstock come January 2022. I'd compare JJ to Mornhinweg...he never really came close to being a HC again after his disastrous stint in Detroit & when he was a national joke (winning the coin toss in OT, electing to kick the ball, & never getting the ball back with the Bears winning on a FG.)
I wish him the best....but he either lied  
George from PA : 5/16/2022 7:10 pm : link
Or assumed too much from his asst.

These players were never put in best position to succeed.

This team was not ready to start season.

Offense was a disaster and backup QB plan was worse.
Def. got a bum deal  
dancing blue bear : 5/16/2022 7:14 pm : link
If you get one shot at your dream job, you probably don't want it here. Obviously he fell apart down the stretch, but the guy was under fire daily and the org just let left him out there to take the beating.

Good thing Mara said he will be more patient with a first time HC. If I were Daboll I would probably rent.
Does anyone else find it insane that this  
eric2425ny : 5/16/2022 7:16 pm : link
guy is an “offensive assistant”? The Giants offense during his tenure was probably the worst I have ever seen.

I was expecting him to resurface as some kind of special teams or defensive assistant.
even  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/16/2022 7:20 pm : link
Ray Handley didn't melt down like Joe Judge did in the final month or so. Those two press conferences were beyond bizarre.
eric2425ny  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/16/2022 7:20 pm : link
I said the same when the Pats hired him, but who are we to doubt BB? I don't believe he's ever had any experience on that side of the ball.
Eric...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/16/2022 7:21 pm : link
To JJ's credit, he didn't end up in the Lake Tahoe region never to be heard from again.
Take the best offensive minds in football  
BSIMatt : 5/16/2022 7:22 pm : link
whoever you believe they are...I don't think they would do much better with what the Giants had to work with in 2020 or 2021.

It reminds me of a few weeks ago, watching a guy break down how great the Chiefs offense. He kept showing these plays, and saying things like "And then you get it to your really fast guy", and and the clips kept showing them getting the ball to Hill. There is quite literally one Tyreek Hill in football. It's great to show the schemes, and how smart the coaches are..but the funny thing about great coaches..they usually are surrounded by some pretty damn good players.
RE: Take the best offensive minds in football  
BSIMatt : 5/16/2022 7:23 pm : link
In comment 15710652 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
whoever you believe they are...I don't think they would do much better with what the Giants had to work with in 2020 or 2021.

It reminds me of a few weeks ago, watching a guy break down how great the Chiefs offense. He kept showing these plays, and saying things like "And then you get it to your really fast guy", and and the clips kept showing them getting the ball to Hill. There is quite literally one Tyreek Hill in football. It's great to show the schemes, and how smart the coaches are..but the funny thing about great coaches..they usually are surrounded by some pretty damn good players.


And yes, you need both.
RE: Eric...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/16/2022 7:23 pm : link
In comment 15710651 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
To JJ's credit, he didn't end up in the Lake Tahoe region never to be heard from again.


True, but fading away like that just adds to his lore. As does him getting banned from Las Vegas.
I am sorry but Judge was as guilty  
jvm52106 : 5/16/2022 7:24 pm : link
As anyone else involved. His talk, his speeches turned out to be filled with so much false bravado, an over inflated ego based on the success of the person he worked for and ultimately came off as a used car salesmen who was great with misdirection and distraction until more say folks starting looking under the hood as the cars began failing left and right.

Judge made things worse for himself as things started to crumble he showed just how empty his words and speeches were.
RE: Take the best offensive minds in football  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/16/2022 7:24 pm : link
In comment 15710652 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
whoever you believe they are...I don't think they would do much better with what the Giants had to work with in 2020 or 2021.

It reminds me of a few weeks ago, watching a guy break down how great the Chiefs offense. He kept showing these plays, and saying things like "And then you get it to your really fast guy", and and the clips kept showing them getting the ball to Hill. There is quite literally one Tyreek Hill in football. It's great to show the schemes, and how smart the coaches are..but the funny thing about great coaches..they usually are surrounded by some pretty damn good players.


But Joe Judge was an architect of the roster too. He had just as much say, perhaps more, than Gettleman. This was HIS team too.
More often than not  
djm : 5/16/2022 7:24 pm : link
Bad coaches don’t fix bad teams.

Moving on.
RE: More often than not  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/16/2022 7:25 pm : link
In comment 15710657 djm said:
Quote:
Bad coaches don’t fix bad teams.

Moving on.


Succinct, but probably spot on.
RE: More often than not  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2022 7:29 pm : link
In comment 15710657 djm said:
Quote:
Bad coaches don’t fix bad teams.

Moving on.


this is true and also cuts the other way - good coaches tend to get things going in the right direction regardless of what they inherit.
I think he’s a College Coach IMO......  
Simms11 : 5/16/2022 7:31 pm : link
that’s where he should have went first.
Isn't it widely known JJ pushed for the  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/16/2022 7:32 pm : link
Toney pick?
It sorta is wild when you think about it...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/16/2022 7:34 pm : link
We were competing with Mississippi State-Mississippi Fucking State in Starkville, MS-for JJ in January 2020.
RE: Isn't it widely known JJ pushed for the  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2022 7:36 pm : link
In comment 15710665 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Toney pick?


almost every pick the last 2 years had a coach on his staff. It was probably more good then bad though - Thomas, McKinney, Toney, Ojulari, Robinson, plus the extra first this year.
 
ryanmkeane : 5/16/2022 7:40 pm : link
The whole “somewhere else” comment is basically indicative of the way he coached the team. Like when he didn’t want to mention the names of a player for like 3 months after he got the job. Such a weird stance to take. You can’t be a professional and say something positive?
Judge had to deal with a mess here  
DieHard : 5/16/2022 7:40 pm : link
but I have a feeling that as time goes on, it'll become clear that he and his staff exacerbated existing problems. Never mind the offense, how about head-scratching in-game decisions, being unable to get on the same page with assistant coaches, throwing a challenge flag on a scoring play, an inability or unwillingness to try anything different, frequent lapses in on-field discipline, or the team curling up in a ball down the stretch when they literally had nothing to lose at that point? Sounds like your typical unsuccessful Belichick disciple to me.
Except for the Maras,  
Go Terps : 5/16/2022 7:40 pm : link
Everyone in the football operation above and around Judge has been fired.

He had no chance here.
RE: even  
bluefin : 5/16/2022 7:43 pm : link
In comment 15710649 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Ray Handley didn't melt down like Joe Judge did in the final month or so. Those two press conferences were beyond bizarre.

This is true, harsh as it sounds - not to mention his BS excuse for throwing the challenge flag in a non-challengeable situation. He was out of his depth and tried to cover it with talk.
I thought he would be special. He was not.  
Big Blue '56 : 5/16/2022 7:48 pm : link
Those two inexcusable/inexplicable WB sneaks cemented that
WB=QB  
Big Blue '56 : 5/16/2022 7:49 pm : link
.
Yes, he came into a bad situation, but  
sb from NYT Forum : 5/16/2022 7:49 pm : link
...he sure as hell didn't hadn't it well at all.

Saying he got a raw deal gives him too much credit.

He maybe, MAYBE would have made a good Division II head coach.

Is he still getting paid by the Giants?  
SirLoinOfBeef : 5/16/2022 7:49 pm : link
Are descendants of his going to benefit from his two miserable years here?

He got a LOT of money to be an incompetent HC. Folks loves the Belichick scent on him and went full bore.

He will never be a HC in the NFL again.

He's not NFL HC material. Maybe DIV II College.
this is what i will most remember judge for  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2022 7:51 pm : link
in game i didn't think it could get worse than shurmur, and then it did. Pretty sure I saw a leaderboard at some point that he now owns the 3 most cowardly punts since 1999.

Quote:
Surrender Index 90
@surrender_idx90
NYG decided to punt to ATL from the ATL 39 on 4th & 3 with 6:29 remaining in the 3rd while losing 6 to 7.

With a Surrender Index of 69.9, this punt ranks at the 100th percentile of cowardly punts of the 2021 season, and the 99.6th percentile of all punts since 1999.

Quote:
Surrender Index 90
@surrender_idx90
NYG decided to punt to MIA from the MIA 46 on 4th & 2 with 5:03 remaining in the 3rd while losing 6 to 10.

With a Surrender Index of 20.87, this punt ranks at the 98th percentile of cowardly punts of the 2021 season, and the 96th percentile of all punts since 1999.


RE: Yes, he came into a bad situation, but  
sb from NYT Forum : 5/16/2022 7:51 pm : link
In comment 15710683 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...he sure as hell didn't hadn't it well at all.

Saying he got a raw deal gives him too much credit.

He maybe, MAYBE would have made a good Division II head coach.


Sorry, spellcheck. He didn't handle it well at all...
RE: Does anyone else find it insane that this  
DieHard : 5/16/2022 7:52 pm : link
In comment 15710646 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
guy is an “offensive assistant”? The Giants offense during his tenure was probably the worst I have ever seen.

I was expecting him to resurface as some kind of special teams or defensive assistant.


Well, he was Pats WR coach for a season before he came to the Giants -- he ended up doing a mediocre job with a mediocre group.

I'm sure Judge is well aware of how the offense looked last year. This is all about rehabilitating his image and proving he's got the chops to run a good offense, so he can get back into the head coach conversation. Retreating to special teams or defense won't do that. Belichick clearly likes him, so he's giving him that shot.
JJ was in way over his head, didn't have the temperment, and was  
PatersonPlank : 5/16/2022 7:52 pm : link
basically a jerk IMO. Nothing he has done since has changed that opinion for me.
Eric on LI...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/16/2022 7:52 pm : link
'I TOO LIKE TO LIVE DANGEROUSLY!'
Started souring on him  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/16/2022 7:57 pm : link
After the Thursday nighter against WFT. Played not to win. His defense had just given up a touchdown drive the previous drive.

Think he lost some respect that night from the team.

He always seemed to back DJ so not surprised to hear him say he enjoyed working with him.
RE: Eric on LI...  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2022 7:58 pm : link
In comment 15710693 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
'I TOO LIKE TO LIVE DANGEROUSLY!'


that's what he should get embroidered on his sweatshirt.
LOS...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/16/2022 7:59 pm : link
I started to sour on JJ when he did the whole headset thing in KC & got super defensive when questioned about it. It was a bad, bad look.

He lost me completely after the Bears presser. I'd love a deep dive one day into that presser from all parties. It was so fucking bizarre.
Historically  
pjcas18 : 5/16/2022 8:04 pm : link
Belichick has from time to time gone with no DC (I don't think they've had a DC since Matt Patricia left) and no OC at least a few years after or before Bill O'Brien in between McDaniels stints.





RE: LOS...  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2022 8:05 pm : link
In comment 15710702 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I started to sour on JJ when he did the whole headset thing in KC & got super defensive when questioned about it. It was a bad, bad look.

He lost me completely after the Bears presser. I'd love a deep dive one day into that presser from all parties. It was so fucking bizarre.


i hated garrett's offense with the heat of 1000 suns but i think it turned out garrett in a lot of ways was actually propping judge's lack of offensive knowledge up. post-garrett the emperor had no clothes - the team knew it, the media knew it, and thankfully ownership realized too.
Eric on LI...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/16/2022 8:08 pm : link
The scary thing to me is that-from most accounts-Mara wanted to keep JJ, but Tisch apparently threw his weight around & JJ was gone.

For the love of God, I hope Mara learns to STFU. I get he's not going anywhere-people thinking the Maras are going to sell are loco-but hopefully he defers to Schoen & Daboll, makes an appearance now & again, & signs the checks.
RE: LOS...  
sb from NYT Forum : 5/16/2022 8:12 pm : link
In comment 15710702 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I started to sour on JJ when he did the whole headset thing in KC & got super defensive when questioned about it. It was a bad, bad look.

He lost me completely after the Bears presser. I'd love a deep dive one day into that presser from all parties. It was so fucking bizarre.


I had serious serious issues with him last year, but I wanted him gone after the Miami game when he talked about how good the team looked blah blah blah after losing 20-9.
sb from NYT Forum...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/16/2022 8:17 pm : link
Yeah, his pressers were becoming jokes near the end. I was sick of the 'Well, I saw good things out there' lines when we're losing each game. It was so insulting to the fans. We're watching these games too & seeing the same stuff.

The Chargers game in mid December to the season finale vs. WTF...just embarrassing football.
fuck this used car salesman  
ArcadeSlumlord : 5/16/2022 8:22 pm : link
idgaf what he does.
the  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/16/2022 8:25 pm : link
canary in the coal mine should have been Nate Ebner.
What was the stat?  
kinard : 5/16/2022 8:42 pm : link
Outscored 77-0 in the last 2 minutes of the first half-last year

He was one of the worst game managers I've ever seen.

Wish him well
Judge is a detailed  
Matt in SGS : 5/16/2022 8:47 pm : link
coach and you can see the Saban/Belichick influence. But what he apparently never leaned from his time with Little Bill was how to adjust and adapt on the fly. He talked a big game about it, but never actually did it in practice.

I admit, I wanted to believe the stuff he was saying. Clearly Mara did too. You hope that you caught this young coach ready to lead your team for the next 15 years. I was hoping that after finishing 5-3 in 2020, he was starting to turn it around. Honestly, he started to lose me in Week 1 vs Denver, when the Giants were massively outcoached, and he did whatever the hell that was when he threw away a challenge and a time out on a play that couldn't be reviewed so he could yell at the refs. That was the moment that I started to wonder if we got it wrong. And then he turned into Ben McAdoo with nonsense in his press conferences and saying all that BS over and over again. His meltdown at the end of the season was just the tipping point that everything led up to.

In hindsight, it really seems like he took the Giants interview, because he had to, but really wanted to go to Mississippi State. When he started doing his song and dance about punching you in the mouth, he sounded great compared to Pat Shurmur who had zero personality. I bet he was as surprised as anyone that he got the job and then adopted the "fake it until you make it" attitude. He never made it.

One thing is for sure, the Patriots haven't given him an official title as a coach, and I think that has as much to do with money as anything. If he's named the official OC, there is a going industry rate for that and the Giants pay the difference. Those coaching spots make big money. The Pats basically have given him some weird role, and for all we know, he's making the same as an assistant quality control coach but getting paid his millions from the Giants.
RE: the  
BillT : 5/16/2022 8:48 pm : link
In comment 15710724 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
canary in the coal mine should have been Nate Ebner.

I thought the two FB were a warning sign. Most teams don’t have one. Two?
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