I’ve been vocal last season in my support of Judge. He did nothing to warrant a third year based on his coaching down the stretch, but he walked into a burning building when he took the HC job here. And let’s be honest, all the reasons which are provided for Daniel Jones struggles could easily be said for Judge as HC. It’s since been reported Judge did not get along with Gettleman, no surprise there.
A few items:
-He’s looking forward, similar stuff to what he said when he coached here. No interest in reflecting on his time as NYG HC. Referred to the Giants as “somewhere else”.
-Enjoyed working with Daniel Jones.
-I have no idea what he was drinking. Must have graduated from Gatorade.
As an aside, I have no idea what Belichick is doing on the offensive side of the ball with the coaches. Having a bunch of coaches work “collaboratively” on offense seems like a bad idea, but can’t really question Belichick.
Make no mistake, I’m happy the Giants overhauled everything. But, I said multiple times heading into the 2021 season that Judge could very well be collateral damage - I just hated having a lame duck GM. Never made sense.
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Then he just punts always.
Bye
I agree with the tough guy facade. There was nothing intimidating about this guy. He was more laughable than McAdoo and his 2017 hair.
Everything was bad under this coach. No one improved. Results took a backseat to his “process”. His game and clock management were atrocious. He was a worse coach than Dave Gettleman was a GM. I know I’m in the minority there but I truly believe that and I also believe we’ll see how different some of these players grow under (hopefully) a skilled head coach.
Good riddance.
- with a bad roster
- a bad GM
- gets hit with COVID rules first thing and has to adjust on the fly
- he loses SB early his first year
- has record level injuries on an already bad roster 2nd year
- has a poor OL further depleted
- when DJ went down the wheels came off
He needed to learn to STFU. He talked too much, and said little. That wears thin. In fairness there’s not much to say when you lose, it’s a series of second guesses and answering for things that failed. The trite “process” answers get old and ring hollow, the press wants better quotes.
By all accounts the guy knows the game. Press and former players said he can tell you the goals of each play and details of technique for each player. But Gettlemen went into hiding and JJ had no where to hide. That bears presser looked like he was going to fondle metal balls and talk about the strawberries, see, like the Cane Mutiny. It was over. I think he’d gotten too close and at some point you can’t think your way out. It’s just a bad team, and he’d run out of answers.
I admit, I wanted to believe the stuff he was saying. Clearly Mara did too. You hope that you caught this young coach ready to lead your team for the next 15 years. I was hoping that after finishing 5-3 in 2020, he was starting to turn it around. Honestly, he started to lose me in Week 1 vs Denver, when the Giants were massively outcoached, and he did whatever the hell that was when he threw away a challenge and a time out on a play that couldn't be reviewed so he could yell at the refs. That was the moment that I started to wonder if we got it wrong. And then he turned into Ben McAdoo with nonsense in his press conferences and saying all that BS over and over again. His meltdown at the end of the season was just the tipping point that everything led up to.
In hindsight, it really seems like he took the Giants interview, because he had to, but really wanted to go to Mississippi State. When he started doing his song and dance about punching you in the mouth, he sounded great compared to Pat Shurmur who had zero personality. I bet he was as surprised as anyone that he got the job and then adopted the "fake it until you make it" attitude. He never made it.
One thing is for sure, the Patriots haven't given him an official title as a coach, and I think that has as much to do with money as anything. If he's named the official OC, there is a going industry rate for that and the Giants pay the difference. Those coaching spots make big money. The Pats basically have given him some weird role, and for all we know, he's making the same as an assistant quality control coach but getting paid his millions from the Giants.
Pretty much this.
I thought we had our guy after year one.
For me, I couldn’t understand the total lack of participating in the preseason after we started 0-3 and the defense especially, which had way more talent, looked like garbage. I also don’t separate Graham from that which is why I wanted no part of retaining him.
I did like Judge. I don’t think personality specifically was his issue. I think he miscalculated the difference between the leash Mara was going to give him and the leash from the fans and media. Judge’s year 1 had some positives but it was not enough to give him a year 2 free pass. I have a sense that after 3 games Judge must have had the same feeling that many of us fans had which was the realization they just pissed away a soft opening schedule, and most likely the whole season.
I would caution Daboll not to make this same mistake. No indication he will, but just saying, the heat can get turned up fast around here. People like to talk like this season is a freebie. It is in the sense that he’ll see year 2 pretty much no matter what, but how hot his seat is, if at all to start next year will depend on what they do this year.
I was expecting him to resurface as some kind of special teams or defensive assistant.
yes, I find that insane
The canary in the coal mine should have been Marc Columbo wanting to break Juge's face.
Ultimately Judge brought in a bunch of his dipshit friends, and none of them knew jack about coaching an offense.
Shit got real, and Judge gave up.
By way of a Jersey Turnpike rest stop
On paper Schoen and Daboll appear to have built the strongest coaching staff that the Giants have had in a very long time. I still can't believe that they landed Wink Martindale.
in nov/dec they were probably texting each other about the possibility again.
in january brian flores was being pitched daboll as his oc.
and now it's daboll on the msg jumbotron during playoff games, judge looks like tony blundetto chasing his laundry truck, and flores burned more bridges than anyone since the game of thrones finale.
i actually think judge was really close to being a good coach and just didnt know what he didnt know. he had more natural charisma and personality than your typical belichek disciple. kind of like flores. except flores somehow managed to win. belichek seems to not care that these guys all have some kind of major blind spots in their "training" that ultimately cost them their jobs and send them running back to him. he probably gets off on it actually. im glad daboll has more of a diversity of experience.
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But when he had to provide tangible results, it was an utter catastrophe and he ended up presiding over a historically bad offensive system. And when he had no answers and was expected to give them, ultimately he himself broke.
I wouldn't say used car salesman because I think he honestly felt he could do it and wanted to provide good results, but clearly in hindsight he wasn't the man for the job.
In fact I wouldn't let him near any pro offense ever again, Garrett's impact not withstanding.
The talent evaluators all sucked. Including the coaches.
This is why I kind of get where Terps is coming from. All the players on the team should be suspect giving who chose them.
The talent evaluators all sucked. Including the coaches.
This is why I kind of get where Terps is coming from. All the players on the team should be suspect giving who chose them.
Best line of the offseason has been Go Terps phrase about erasing the stink from this team.
In 5-10 years I think we'll learn what his players really thought of him, and it's their opinion I'll trust.
And, yes, my pun was pretty obvious.
The talent evaluators all sucked. Including the coaches.
This is why I kind of get where Terps is coming from. All the players on the team should be suspect giving who chose them.
every new coach inherits players from a suspect regime. the new coach either finds ways to win or they are out of a job and someone else gets their 2 year audition.
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canary in the coal mine should have been Nate Ebner.
I thought the two FB were a warning sign. Most teams don’t have one. Two?
Two FB's, multiple ST's specialists (ie they will only contribute there), the bizarre OL coach issues, not playing Peart- no matter how bad he may have seemed in practice while playing the completely done Solder and then the odd additions of multiple over the hill RB's when we should have just used young legs to help our weak and slow line.
The refusing to use names early on, the weird choice of not playing starters in the pre-season, most of whom needed the rep time with the QB and then the horrible decision to make Mike Glennon- the exact opposite kind of QB athletically of your starter, the backup... Just fucking insane.
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In comment 15710724 Eric from BBI said:
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canary in the coal mine should have been Nate Ebner.
I thought the two FB were a warning sign. Most teams don’t have one. Two?
Two FB's, multiple ST's specialists (ie they will only contribute there), the bizarre OL coach issues, not playing Peart- no matter how bad he may have seemed in practice while playing the completely done Solder and then the odd additions of multiple over the hill RB's when we should have just used young legs to help our weak and slow line.
The refusing to use names early on, the weird choice of not playing starters in the pre-season, most of whom needed the rep time with the QB and then the horrible decision to make Mike Glennon- the exact opposite kind of QB athletically of your starter, the backup... Just fucking insane.
Great list. You left off the worst one, IMO. Switching gates to LG to start Billy Price at OC. Why?!?!?
I tried to give him a chance and even allowed myself to be cautiously optimistic after it looked like they were making progress down the stretch of his first season but then 2021 hit and those two unhinged press conferences may be the most humiliated I've ever been as a Giants fan. It was disgraceful.
+1
Those two "QB sneaks" were the low point in the history of the franchise.
On paper Schoen and Daboll appear to have built the strongest coaching staff that the Giants have had in a very long time. I still can't believe that they landed Wink Martindale.
I don't know about that...there are reports judge wanted Daboll as his OC.
It's not a stretch to say he wanted no parts of Garrett/Columbo in 2020.
They should be worried!
Judge should be back on specials.
For the love of God, I hope Mara learns to STFU. I get he's not going anywhere-people thinking the Maras are going to sell are loco-but hopefully he defers to Schoen & Daboll, makes an appearance now & again, & signs the checks.
The Maras are not to be trusted. The only good one was the late Tim Mara (Wellington's nephew who sold the team to the late Robert Preston Tisch in 1991 for younger fans), who if it wasn't for him, this organization would be the Detroit Lions.
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canary in the coal mine should have been Nate Ebner.
The canary in the coal mine should have been Marc Columbo wanting to break Juge's face.
Ultimately Judge brought in a bunch of his dipshit friends, and none of them knew jack about coaching an offense.
Shit got real, and Judge gave up.
This
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To JJ's credit, he didn't end up in the Lake Tahoe region never to be heard from again.
By way of a Jersey Turnpike rest stop
Daboll inherited a roster from a uniquely bad talent evaluation group. And a bad one year cap situation. And inherited a lame duck QB.
Both Daboll and Schoen have a lot of work to do in the next two years. If there's any scenario where ownership should exhibit patience, this is it.
Daboll has fewer groceries than Shurmur or Judge had.
Joe Judge is gone because he was not ready to be a coach at the NFL level. He was making rookie mistakes well into his second season with misunderstanding the basic rules of the game and being unable to get his team lined up.
Joe Judge wasn't the only problem with the Giants, but he was certainly more problem than solution.
he brings back quite a few of his coaches who have left. BD left him with Mangini to the Jets. Then he had some uninspiring years as OC (Cleve/Miami) before returning again as a TE coach. Off to Bama then to Buffalo and now HC NY Giants.
Maybe Judge finds a way to earn another chance.
Judge was asked if he would call plays in 2022 and said: "Look, I'll tell you directly and honestly right now, nothing has been declared or decided or voiced to me. ... In terms of who calls plays, to be honest with you, that's not the main focus right now. When Coach wants to go ahead and declare a role like that, he'll tell us."
This just screamed out to me from the ESPN article, that he's a follower by nature and not a leader. He seems to immediately go back to "let coach decide" and is submissive, immediately after rejoining his old team once he had failed.
Daboll has fewer groceries than Shurmur or Judge had.
don't agree there at all. Judge inherited literally the worst nyg D in the modern era by any metric, ppg, yards. That 2019 team gave up 28 ppg.
the offense overall was at best slightly below average but that was with the qb in a system that fit him and barkley before blowing out his knee in game 2. the starting OTs were Solder/Remmers.
the extra draft picks the new regime had also can't be understated. by pick value they got 2 drafts this year, not 1. that should/could mean 4+ guys who get to 2nd contracts compared to a typical draft year where you are hoping for 2. Obviously thibs/neal should be starting them at 2.
judge faceplanted year 2 in ways that he had direct control over but there's some re-writing of history with where the team was when he inherited it, some bad breaks he got along the way, and the fact that he did do some positive things in year 1 despite them.
Alot of non-Giants fans were poking fun at that long before we all soured on him. He’s bonkers.
I think his biggest failure was telling us that he was going to put players in a position to succeed yet it seemed like the O an D were just so basic and didnt take advantage of anyones talent.
I think his biggest failure was telling us that he was going to put players in a position to succeed yet it seemed like the O an D were just so basic and didnt take advantage of anyones talent.
completely agree with the bold. the core theme of his introduction was that he was going to hold himself and the coaches accountable to get the most out of players and in the end in most cases he got the least.
the lone exception being graham's defense year 1 which did get a few career years.
The 2018 Giants were the worst roster I'd ever seen them have. Then they got worse each year.
I believe Schoen and Daboll inherited a completely empty cupboard.
The 2018 Giants were the worst roster I'd ever seen them have. Then they got worse each year.
I believe Schoen and Daboll inherited a completely empty cupboard.
hyperbole is your brand.
Characteristic hire of a clueless football operations and management team.
your imagination stretches the limits of all you've been right about. betting against unproven coaches/qbs is pretty good odds.
3 weeks ago you said the only reason Malik Willis wasn't getting picked 5th overall was Mara's preference to have a white QB. Was that right?
Joe Judge is gone because he was not ready to be a coach at the NFL level. He was making rookie mistakes well into his second season with misunderstanding the basic rules of the game and being unable to get his team lined up.
Joe Judge wasn't the only problem with the Giants, but he was certainly more problem than solution.
+1
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The hyperbole has been the truth.
your imagination stretches the limits of all you've been right about. betting against unproven coaches/qbs is pretty good odds.
3 weeks ago you said the only reason Malik Willis wasn't getting picked 5th overall was Mara's preference to have a white QB. Was that right?
I was wrong about where he'd go, but I definitely think the Maras have a type for their franchise QB.
The proof on the roster these guys inherited will be in the pudding: how many get second contracts? I think you can set the over/under at 1.5.
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He is gone because the team continued to lose, players continued to play sloppy, disorganized ball and he was clearly losing his composure down the stretch of the season. Your leader needs to be a calming influence in tough times, not insulting other teams and acting like a victim.
Joe Judge is gone because he was not ready to be a coach at the NFL level. He was making rookie mistakes well into his second season with misunderstanding the basic rules of the game and being unable to get his team lined up.
Joe Judge wasn't the only problem with the Giants, but he was certainly more problem than solution.
+1
also a pretty good roadmap to what would constitute progress for daboll year 1.