how he ranks these, but just keep in mind that the bulk of this roster will have their contracts expiring at the end of this season. So our available cap space will look much bigger than it really is.
Bulk of roster? Only Barkley and Jones....really....and if that
Giants questions are warranted. Bradberry move saved cap and took him off the UFA list, double benefit. And they have the most active draft capital in the NFL
If not, the Giants will again face a choice between sucking or overpaying for UFAs (and probably sucking anyway).
Exactly. They really need this draft class, and next year’s for that matter, to be off the charts to reset this franchise.
Outside of one very successful free agent spending spree (2005 with Plax, McKenzie, and Pierce), the other high spending FA offseasons yielded next to nothing. I’m thinking specifically of Reese’s 2016 binge on defense (Snacks, Jenkins, Vernon) and Gettleman’s 2021 disaster (Golladay, Jackson, LW contract, Rudolph).
Yes, the team miraculously put up an 11-5 record in 2016, but they had some insane metric of close games won that set a record. They could have just as easily been 7-9 or 8-8 that year from a probability perspective. Hence the quick wild card round bounce from playoff contention.
1. Active Draft Capital (how many rookie contract players you have and where they were selected)
2. 2022-24 Effective Cap space
3. Total Prorated money (want to be low)
4. Top 51 roster valuation (Browns #1)
5. 2023 UFA valuation (want to be low)
some context linking some of the points above:
1. 57% of the players on nyg roster are on rookie deals, which is most in the nfl. they continue to have 1 of the youngest rosters in the league.
2. they currently have the 5th most effective cap space in 2023 and 2nd most in 2024 - and will likely create more next year with Jackson, Golladay, Williams unlikely to have their contracts remain as is.
5. their 2023 UFA valuations are low with their 4 biggest pending UFAs being Barkley, Jones, Love, Martinez.
Daboll and Schoen inherited about as much of a blank slate as any new regime can hope for in addition to the sizable extra draft capital this year. Those are probably the 2 biggest reasons each chose this job over others.
RE: Bulk of roster? Only Barkley and Jones....really....and if that
Blake Martinez
Daniel Jones
Jon Feliciano
Saquon Barkley
Sterling Shepard
Darius Slayton
Jordan Akins
Julian Love
Nick Gates
Ricky Seals-Jones
Jihad Ward
Max Garcia
Justin Ellis
Matt Breida
Richie James
Oshane Ximines
Robert Foster
Korey Cunningham
Casey Kreiter
Jamil Douglas
Matt Gono
Trent Harris
Jamie Gillan
CJ Board
Jarren Williams
David Sills
Chris Myarick
Niko Lalos
David Moa
Alex Bachman
Davis Webb
Devery Hamilton
Austin Proehl
Sandro Platzgummer
Brian Lewerke
Now, many of these guys won't even make the 53 man roster this year. And of those who do, many of them are far from core players, and most are unlikely worth keeping for 2023 and beyond.
But some of these guys are going to genuinely be meaningful parts of the 2022 roster, even if it's just as depth. And they're going to need to be replaced or re-signed. And some of those will be top-51 contracts.
And the biggest part of that is that our only QB on the roster for 2023 is Tyrod Taylor as of right now. Let's say DJ has a great season and the Giants decide to tag him; the QB tag is projected to be $31.5M next year. That's 58% of the cap space in one move.
If DJ isn't on the roster next year, there's probably some money that needs to be spent at that position, in addition to draft capital that will need to be used, which will preclude using a premium pick on CB, so that position - also an expensive one - will probably require significant money as well.
Don't get me wrong - the Giants are not in trouble with the cap going forward, but their cap health (at least for 2023) is a little overstated and misleading. The one encouraging thing is that they should have enough cap space that they won't have to use too many void years (and/or other dead money triggers) beyond those that they've already had to do (which includes Shepard next year; Jackson, Taylor, and Gano in 2024; Golladay in 2025).
I have been saying all along that the Giants are in great CAP space moving forward.
The Giants have $54,007,912 of projected CAP space in 2023 and $173,240,610 in 2024. What makes this more impressive is that this includes 51 players under contract. Many players will likely be released, who are included in the calculations.
The actual draft space is considerably more.
The Giants CAP health is in stark contrast to the Eagles and the Cowboys. Both teams will have significant difficulty moving forward. Not only are they right at the CAP but they are constrained by many long term contracts.
Blake Martinez
Daniel Jones
Jon Feliciano
Saquon Barkley
Sterling Shepard
Darius Slayton
Jordan Akins
Julian Love
Nick Gates
Ricky Seals-Jones
Jihad Ward
Max Garcia
Justin Ellis
Matt Breida
Richie James
Oshane Ximines
Robert Foster
Korey Cunningham
Casey Kreiter
Jamil Douglas
Matt Gono
Trent Harris
Jamie Gillan
CJ Board
Jarren Williams
David Sills
Chris Myarick
Niko Lalos
David Moa
Alex Bachman
Davis Webb
Devery Hamilton
Austin Proehl
Sandro Platzgummer
Brian Lewerke
Now, many of these guys won't even make the 53 man roster this year. And of those who do, many of them are far from core players, and most are unlikely worth keeping for 2023 and beyond.
But some of these guys are going to genuinely be meaningful parts of the 2022 roster, even if it's just as depth. And they're going to need to be replaced or re-signed. And some of those will be top-51 contracts.
And the biggest part of that is that our only QB on the roster for 2023 is Tyrod Taylor as of right now. Let's say DJ has a great season and the Giants decide to tag him; the QB tag is projected to be $31.5M next year. That's 58% of the cap space in one move.
If DJ isn't on the roster next year, there's probably some money that needs to be spent at that position, in addition to draft capital that will need to be used, which will preclude using a premium pick on CB, so that position - also an expensive one - will probably require significant money as well.
Don't get me wrong - the Giants are not in trouble with the cap going forward, but their cap health (at least for 2023) is a little overstated and misleading. The one encouraging thing is that they should have enough cap space that they won't have to use too many void years (and/or other dead money triggers) beyond those that they've already had to do (which includes Shepard next year; Jackson, Taylor, and Gano in 2024; Golladay in 2025).
Not concerned about QB salaries in 2023. Odds are Jones isn’t the guy and won’t be re-signed or tagged. Tyrod’s salary is not that high. They will use a premium pick to draft a QB in 2023 in that scenario and Tyrod will be the bridge until that 5 year cost controlled QB is ready to go. We are in great shape with the cap.
Gatorade the tea leaves on Tyrod's contract make the QB room
pretty simple to anticipate post-Jones if it goes that direction. It will be him and a 1st round rookie, which is baked into the effective cap space number. Taylor's contract was structured in a way that makes it likely he's here.
the only question is jones vs. rookie and the deck is appropriately stacked against jones. either he clears a high bar or doesn't. though there may be an in between outcome where they tag him as a means of insurance since they won't be able to predict how the draft goes.
I agree with Eric in Li — the Giants have a blank slate after this year.
I’ve posted this many times to the ire of fellow Gettleman haters — the silver lining in the Gettleman/Abrams hypotheses was 2021/2022/2023 were the window. They were explicit about this — they leaned into spending when other teams didn’t last year (with the Covid cap dip).
They went for it, and failed. But we saw (and will see), their mess will be easy to erase.
Schoen has explicitly kept the sheet clean for next year. He cleared more money on next year’s sheet then he spent on veterans. The only real money he’s spent was on rookies.
Now — let’s not conflate having a blank slate with being in good shape. A blank slate is neutral. Good shape is having a bunch of young good players who have shown they belong, on cheap deals.
christian they have young players the ? is if they are good
they've been among the youngest teams in the nfl for a few years. they just haven't been good.
bj hill is somewhat instructive as to how hard it is to evaluate players with poor coaching from the outside. zeitler and golden too. 1 bad teams castoffs became 3 playoff team's starters.
i dont know if daboll is the answer but if he is we will see a handful of players look better with better utilization.
The flip side is a guy like Ryan Connelly who looked like something on the Giants, gets hurt and cut, and isn’t much of a player it turns out.
I’m careful to get excited about the incumbents who have played snaps on the Giants. Plenty of average and bad players get burn on bad teams because that’s all the team has.
If I had to guess which side of the shop was absolutely horrific at their job the last 4 years, the coaching or scouting, I’d pick the scouting 100%.
Now — let’s not conflate having a blank slate with being in good shape. A blank slate is neutral. Good shape is having a bunch of young good players who have shown they belong, on cheap deals.
That's the point I've been trying to make but rambled, thank you.
RE: RE: RE: Bulk of roster? Only Barkley and Jones....really....and if that
Blake Martinez
Daniel Jones
Jon Feliciano
Saquon Barkley
Sterling Shepard
Darius Slayton
Jordan Akins
Julian Love
Nick Gates
Ricky Seals-Jones
Jihad Ward
Max Garcia
Justin Ellis
Matt Breida
Richie James
Oshane Ximines
Robert Foster
Korey Cunningham
Casey Kreiter
Jamil Douglas
Matt Gono
Trent Harris
Jamie Gillan
CJ Board
Jarren Williams
David Sills
Chris Myarick
Niko Lalos
David Moa
Alex Bachman
Davis Webb
Devery Hamilton
Austin Proehl
Sandro Platzgummer
Brian Lewerke
Now, many of these guys won't even make the 53 man roster this year. And of those who do, many of them are far from core players, and most are unlikely worth keeping for 2023 and beyond.
But some of these guys are going to genuinely be meaningful parts of the 2022 roster, even if it's just as depth. And they're going to need to be replaced or re-signed. And some of those will be top-51 contracts.
And the biggest part of that is that our only QB on the roster for 2023 is Tyrod Taylor as of right now. Let's say DJ has a great season and the Giants decide to tag him; the QB tag is projected to be $31.5M next year. That's 58% of the cap space in one move.
If DJ isn't on the roster next year, there's probably some money that needs to be spent at that position, in addition to draft capital that will need to be used, which will preclude using a premium pick on CB, so that position - also an expensive one - will probably require significant money as well.
Don't get me wrong - the Giants are not in trouble with the cap going forward, but their cap health (at least for 2023) is a little overstated and misleading. The one encouraging thing is that they should have enough cap space that they won't have to use too many void years (and/or other dead money triggers) beyond those that they've already had to do (which includes Shepard next year; Jackson, Taylor, and Gano in 2024; Golladay in 2025).
Not concerned about QB salaries in 2023. Odds are Jones isn’t the guy and won’t be re-signed or tagged. Tyrod’s salary is not that high. They will use a premium pick to draft a QB in 2023 in that scenario and Tyrod will be the bridge until that 5 year cost controlled QB is ready to go. We are in great shape with the cap.
IMV, they're going to need a CB1 and a QB1 next year. Both are expensive (even if DJ winds up being that QB1). They're going to need to spend a premium pick on one, and big money on the other.
The flip side is a guy like Ryan Connelly who looked like something on the Giants, gets hurt and cut, and isn’t much of a player it turns out.
I’m careful to get excited about the incumbents who have played snaps on the Giants. Plenty of average and bad players get burn on bad teams because that’s all the team has.
If I had to guess which side of the shop was absolutely horrific at their job the last 4 years, the coaching or scouting, I’d pick the scouting 100%.
that's fair but my point is even a neutral roster is going to have some good on it, the question is if the self scouting and utilization (coaching) is good enough to recognize it?
the last staff didn't even attempt to keep these 3 while handing the 3 below starting spots off years when they were hurt.
Markus Golden - 1.98m cap #, 11 sacks, 10 tfls, 4 ff
Kevin Zeitler - 4m cap #, played 98.5% snaps
BJ Hill - 2.1m cap #, played 45% snaps, 5.5 sacks
(total = $8m worth of cap)
kept L. Carter = 2.45m
kept Hernandez = 3.05m
kept Ximines = 1.1m
(total = 6.5m worth of cap)
the cap doesn't matter if you can't even choose the right guys even after watching them in practice every day for a year.
It’s tough to gauge what Schoen will do since we haven’t seen an offseason yet with him as GM and cash to spend. My instinct tells me he’s going to do this right and not spend a crazy amount of cash on free agents.
If I had to make a prediction now on next years offseason I’d bet on QB in round 1 and probably two corners picked in the first four rounds.
A lot will depend on the play of Jackson, Robinson, and Flott this season. Keep in mind, Jackson is not that old, he has the speed and size to be an impact player and is under contract for two more seasons. If he plays well, he’s our CB1 for at least the next two years. That $11M pricetag in 2023 could easily be lowered if they deem him worth extending. Big year for him.
doesn't need an in depth study to know that the Giants have little to no long term money on the books save for Galladay and Williams and Williams only has 2 more years. I might be missing 1 more player but point remains. The Giants have a virtual clean slate, but have to live with some dead money in 2022.
The Giants were never in cap hell this season, not by a long shot. They were in cap purgatory if anything, but even that could have been mitigated if mgmt felt a certain player was worth keeping at the expense of a potential FA next offseason.
Apparently Bradberry was not worth it.
It's all about long term money. We have very little allocated in that area.
The Giants might want to complete the cap cleaning next off-season. There remain 3 bloated contracts that might not be worth it to the Giants come next off-season.
While Williams will be an expiring contract in 2023, he will be carrying a cap hit in excess of $26M with no guaranteed money. He can be cut, saving $18M on the cap with a dead money hit of just over $8M (prorated bonus remaining).
Golloday will have a cap hit of $21.4M, with $4.5M guaranteed. The Giants can cut him and save $6.7M, while incurring a dead cap hit of $14.7M.
Adoree Jackson will carry a cap figure of just under $20M. The Giants can cut him too, saving just over $9M, while incurring a dead cap hit of about $10.5M.
Assuming all 3 are cut, the Giants would save about $35M but have a dead cap figure of $33.7M. Not much savings, but clears all large scale contracts for players (likely) not meeting those costs.
In fact, at that point, before any FA, the highest remaining cap hit would be Andrew Thomas carrying a cap figure of just over $10M.
Now- the downside. That would mean that at a minimum, the Giants would have major holes at both CB positions (unless one or more of the young guys emerge), the QB position, the RB position (assuming they let Barkley go), DL, and WR.
It would be highly unlikely that the Giants could fill all those needs via the draft, which means MORE FA contracts- though likely at lower years and cash.
Still, at least SOME of those needs would be met via the draft- and taking the remaining cap hits in 2023 would clear the cap deck to deal with the pending extensions for Thomas and other high picks who would need to be retained.
So, remember that when we discuss being out of cap hell in 2023, we also have to be cognizant of the fact that there will still be major holes to fill that the draft alone cannot meet- and that the team is NOT likely to be targeting major FA because of future needs.
The Giants might want to complete the cap cleaning next off-season. There remain 3 bloated contracts that might not be worth it to the Giants come next off-season.
While Williams will be an expiring contract in 2023, he will be carrying a cap hit in excess of $26M with no guaranteed money. He can be cut, saving $18M on the cap with a dead money hit of just over $8M (prorated bonus remaining).
Golloday will have a cap hit of $21.4M, with $4.5M guaranteed. The Giants can cut him and save $6.7M, while incurring a dead cap hit of $14.7M.
Adoree Jackson will carry a cap figure of just under $20M. The Giants can cut him too, saving just over $9M, while incurring a dead cap hit of about $10.5M.
Assuming all 3 are cut, the Giants would save about $35M but have a dead cap figure of $33.7M. Not much savings, but clears all large scale contracts for players (likely) not meeting those costs.
In fact, at that point, before any FA, the highest remaining cap hit would be Andrew Thomas carrying a cap figure of just over $10M.
Now- the downside. That would mean that at a minimum, the Giants would have major holes at both CB positions (unless one or more of the young guys emerge), the QB position, the RB position (assuming they let Barkley go), DL, and WR.
It would be highly unlikely that the Giants could fill all those needs via the draft, which means MORE FA contracts- though likely at lower years and cash.
Still, at least SOME of those needs would be met via the draft- and taking the remaining cap hits in 2023 would clear the cap deck to deal with the pending extensions for Thomas and other high picks who would need to be retained.
So, remember that when we discuss being out of cap hell in 2023, we also have to be cognizant of the fact that there will still be major holes to fill that the draft alone cannot meet- and that the team is NOT likely to be targeting major FA because of future needs.
The cap cleansing isn’t over yet.
Amazing how "big ticket UFA's" really can hurt you if they aren't stars worth keeping.
And I agree that the cap cleansing is not over yet.
Martinez, Shepard, Slayton...no
So who outside of Jones and Barkley...
The one year deals....will continue as it SOP.
Bulk of roster will be one rookie deals
Link - ( New Window )
And if they Tag Jones, that like 30 million right there.
Exactly. They really need this draft class, and next year’s for that matter, to be off the charts to reset this franchise.
Outside of one very successful free agent spending spree (2005 with Plax, McKenzie, and Pierce), the other high spending FA offseasons yielded next to nothing. I’m thinking specifically of Reese’s 2016 binge on defense (Snacks, Jenkins, Vernon) and Gettleman’s 2021 disaster (Golladay, Jackson, LW contract, Rudolph).
Yes, the team miraculously put up an 11-5 record in 2016, but they had some insane metric of close games won that set a record. They could have just as easily been 7-9 or 8-8 that year from a probability perspective. Hence the quick wild card round bounce from playoff contention.
2. 2022-24 Effective Cap space
3. Total Prorated money (want to be low)
4. Top 51 roster valuation (Browns #1)
5. 2023 UFA valuation (want to be low)
Martinez, Shepard, Slayton...no
So who outside of Jones and Barkley...
The one year deals....will continue as it SOP.
Bulk of roster will be one rookie deals
You need to go to the BBI roster page and see how many deals expire in 2023.
2. 2022-24 Effective Cap space
3. Total Prorated money (want to be low)
4. Top 51 roster valuation (Browns #1)
5. 2023 UFA valuation (want to be low)
some context linking some of the points above:
1. 57% of the players on nyg roster are on rookie deals, which is most in the nfl. they continue to have 1 of the youngest rosters in the league.
2. they currently have the 5th most effective cap space in 2023 and 2nd most in 2024 - and will likely create more next year with Jackson, Golladay, Williams unlikely to have their contracts remain as is.
5. their 2023 UFA valuations are low with their 4 biggest pending UFAs being Barkley, Jones, Love, Martinez.
Daboll and Schoen inherited about as much of a blank slate as any new regime can hope for in addition to the sizable extra draft capital this year. Those are probably the 2 biggest reasons each chose this job over others.
Martinez, Shepard, Slayton...no
So who outside of Jones and Barkley...
The one year deals....will continue as it SOP.
Bulk of roster will be one rookie deals
This is who is expiring this offseason:
Blake Martinez
Daniel Jones
Jon Feliciano
Saquon Barkley
Sterling Shepard
Darius Slayton
Jordan Akins
Julian Love
Nick Gates
Ricky Seals-Jones
Jihad Ward
Max Garcia
Justin Ellis
Matt Breida
Richie James
Oshane Ximines
Robert Foster
Korey Cunningham
Casey Kreiter
Jamil Douglas
Matt Gono
Trent Harris
Jamie Gillan
CJ Board
Jarren Williams
David Sills
Chris Myarick
Niko Lalos
David Moa
Alex Bachman
Davis Webb
Devery Hamilton
Austin Proehl
Sandro Platzgummer
Brian Lewerke
Now, many of these guys won't even make the 53 man roster this year. And of those who do, many of them are far from core players, and most are unlikely worth keeping for 2023 and beyond.
But some of these guys are going to genuinely be meaningful parts of the 2022 roster, even if it's just as depth. And they're going to need to be replaced or re-signed. And some of those will be top-51 contracts.
And the biggest part of that is that our only QB on the roster for 2023 is Tyrod Taylor as of right now. Let's say DJ has a great season and the Giants decide to tag him; the QB tag is projected to be $31.5M next year. That's 58% of the cap space in one move.
If DJ isn't on the roster next year, there's probably some money that needs to be spent at that position, in addition to draft capital that will need to be used, which will preclude using a premium pick on CB, so that position - also an expensive one - will probably require significant money as well.
Don't get me wrong - the Giants are not in trouble with the cap going forward, but their cap health (at least for 2023) is a little overstated and misleading. The one encouraging thing is that they should have enough cap space that they won't have to use too many void years (and/or other dead money triggers) beyond those that they've already had to do (which includes Shepard next year; Jackson, Taylor, and Gano in 2024; Golladay in 2025).
The Giants have $54,007,912 of projected CAP space in 2023 and $173,240,610 in 2024. What makes this more impressive is that this includes 51 players under contract. Many players will likely be released, who are included in the calculations.
The actual draft space is considerably more.
The Giants CAP health is in stark contrast to the Eagles and the Cowboys. Both teams will have significant difficulty moving forward. Not only are they right at the CAP but they are constrained by many long term contracts.
Quote:
Jon Feliciano ....maybe
Martinez, Shepard, Slayton...no
So who outside of Jones and Barkley...
The one year deals....will continue as it SOP.
Bulk of roster will be one rookie deals
This is who is expiring this offseason:
Blake Martinez
Daniel Jones
Jon Feliciano
Saquon Barkley
Sterling Shepard
Darius Slayton
Jordan Akins
Julian Love
Nick Gates
Ricky Seals-Jones
Jihad Ward
Max Garcia
Justin Ellis
Matt Breida
Richie James
Oshane Ximines
Robert Foster
Korey Cunningham
Casey Kreiter
Jamil Douglas
Matt Gono
Trent Harris
Jamie Gillan
CJ Board
Jarren Williams
David Sills
Chris Myarick
Niko Lalos
David Moa
Alex Bachman
Davis Webb
Devery Hamilton
Austin Proehl
Sandro Platzgummer
Brian Lewerke
Now, many of these guys won't even make the 53 man roster this year. And of those who do, many of them are far from core players, and most are unlikely worth keeping for 2023 and beyond.
But some of these guys are going to genuinely be meaningful parts of the 2022 roster, even if it's just as depth. And they're going to need to be replaced or re-signed. And some of those will be top-51 contracts.
And the biggest part of that is that our only QB on the roster for 2023 is Tyrod Taylor as of right now. Let's say DJ has a great season and the Giants decide to tag him; the QB tag is projected to be $31.5M next year. That's 58% of the cap space in one move.
If DJ isn't on the roster next year, there's probably some money that needs to be spent at that position, in addition to draft capital that will need to be used, which will preclude using a premium pick on CB, so that position - also an expensive one - will probably require significant money as well.
Don't get me wrong - the Giants are not in trouble with the cap going forward, but their cap health (at least for 2023) is a little overstated and misleading. The one encouraging thing is that they should have enough cap space that they won't have to use too many void years (and/or other dead money triggers) beyond those that they've already had to do (which includes Shepard next year; Jackson, Taylor, and Gano in 2024; Golladay in 2025).
Not concerned about QB salaries in 2023. Odds are Jones isn’t the guy and won’t be re-signed or tagged. Tyrod’s salary is not that high. They will use a premium pick to draft a QB in 2023 in that scenario and Tyrod will be the bridge until that 5 year cost controlled QB is ready to go. We are in great shape with the cap.
the only question is jones vs. rookie and the deck is appropriately stacked against jones. either he clears a high bar or doesn't. though there may be an in between outcome where they tag him as a means of insurance since they won't be able to predict how the draft goes.
I’ve posted this many times to the ire of fellow Gettleman haters — the silver lining in the Gettleman/Abrams hypotheses was 2021/2022/2023 were the window. They were explicit about this — they leaned into spending when other teams didn’t last year (with the Covid cap dip).
They went for it, and failed. But we saw (and will see), their mess will be easy to erase.
Schoen has explicitly kept the sheet clean for next year. He cleared more money on next year’s sheet then he spent on veterans. The only real money he’s spent was on rookies.
Now — let’s not conflate having a blank slate with being in good shape. A blank slate is neutral. Good shape is having a bunch of young good players who have shown they belong, on cheap deals.
bj hill is somewhat instructive as to how hard it is to evaluate players with poor coaching from the outside. zeitler and golden too. 1 bad teams castoffs became 3 playoff team's starters.
i dont know if daboll is the answer but if he is we will see a handful of players look better with better utilization.
The flip side is a guy like Ryan Connelly who looked like something on the Giants, gets hurt and cut, and isn’t much of a player it turns out.
I’m careful to get excited about the incumbents who have played snaps on the Giants. Plenty of average and bad players get burn on bad teams because that’s all the team has.
If I had to guess which side of the shop was absolutely horrific at their job the last 4 years, the coaching or scouting, I’d pick the scouting 100%.
Now — let’s not conflate having a blank slate with being in good shape. A blank slate is neutral. Good shape is having a bunch of young good players who have shown they belong, on cheap deals.
That's the point I've been trying to make but rambled, thank you.
Quote:
In comment 15711312 George from PA said:
Quote:
Jon Feliciano ....maybe
Martinez, Shepard, Slayton...no
So who outside of Jones and Barkley...
The one year deals....will continue as it SOP.
Bulk of roster will be one rookie deals
This is who is expiring this offseason:
Blake Martinez
Daniel Jones
Jon Feliciano
Saquon Barkley
Sterling Shepard
Darius Slayton
Jordan Akins
Julian Love
Nick Gates
Ricky Seals-Jones
Jihad Ward
Max Garcia
Justin Ellis
Matt Breida
Richie James
Oshane Ximines
Robert Foster
Korey Cunningham
Casey Kreiter
Jamil Douglas
Matt Gono
Trent Harris
Jamie Gillan
CJ Board
Jarren Williams
David Sills
Chris Myarick
Niko Lalos
David Moa
Alex Bachman
Davis Webb
Devery Hamilton
Austin Proehl
Sandro Platzgummer
Brian Lewerke
Now, many of these guys won't even make the 53 man roster this year. And of those who do, many of them are far from core players, and most are unlikely worth keeping for 2023 and beyond.
But some of these guys are going to genuinely be meaningful parts of the 2022 roster, even if it's just as depth. And they're going to need to be replaced or re-signed. And some of those will be top-51 contracts.
And the biggest part of that is that our only QB on the roster for 2023 is Tyrod Taylor as of right now. Let's say DJ has a great season and the Giants decide to tag him; the QB tag is projected to be $31.5M next year. That's 58% of the cap space in one move.
If DJ isn't on the roster next year, there's probably some money that needs to be spent at that position, in addition to draft capital that will need to be used, which will preclude using a premium pick on CB, so that position - also an expensive one - will probably require significant money as well.
Don't get me wrong - the Giants are not in trouble with the cap going forward, but their cap health (at least for 2023) is a little overstated and misleading. The one encouraging thing is that they should have enough cap space that they won't have to use too many void years (and/or other dead money triggers) beyond those that they've already had to do (which includes Shepard next year; Jackson, Taylor, and Gano in 2024; Golladay in 2025).
Not concerned about QB salaries in 2023. Odds are Jones isn’t the guy and won’t be re-signed or tagged. Tyrod’s salary is not that high. They will use a premium pick to draft a QB in 2023 in that scenario and Tyrod will be the bridge until that 5 year cost controlled QB is ready to go. We are in great shape with the cap.
IMV, they're going to need a CB1 and a QB1 next year. Both are expensive (even if DJ winds up being that QB1). They're going to need to spend a premium pick on one, and big money on the other.
The flip side is a guy like Ryan Connelly who looked like something on the Giants, gets hurt and cut, and isn’t much of a player it turns out.
I’m careful to get excited about the incumbents who have played snaps on the Giants. Plenty of average and bad players get burn on bad teams because that’s all the team has.
If I had to guess which side of the shop was absolutely horrific at their job the last 4 years, the coaching or scouting, I’d pick the scouting 100%.
that's fair but my point is even a neutral roster is going to have some good on it, the question is if the self scouting and utilization (coaching) is good enough to recognize it?
the last staff didn't even attempt to keep these 3 while handing the 3 below starting spots off years when they were hurt.
Markus Golden - 1.98m cap #, 11 sacks, 10 tfls, 4 ff
Kevin Zeitler - 4m cap #, played 98.5% snaps
BJ Hill - 2.1m cap #, played 45% snaps, 5.5 sacks
(total = $8m worth of cap)
kept L. Carter = 2.45m
kept Hernandez = 3.05m
kept Ximines = 1.1m
(total = 6.5m worth of cap)
the cap doesn't matter if you can't even choose the right guys even after watching them in practice every day for a year.
If I had to make a prediction now on next years offseason I’d bet on QB in round 1 and probably two corners picked in the first four rounds.
A lot will depend on the play of Jackson, Robinson, and Flott this season. Keep in mind, Jackson is not that old, he has the speed and size to be an impact player and is under contract for two more seasons. If he plays well, he’s our CB1 for at least the next two years. That $11M pricetag in 2023 could easily be lowered if they deem him worth extending. Big year for him.
The Giants were never in cap hell this season, not by a long shot. They were in cap purgatory if anything, but even that could have been mitigated if mgmt felt a certain player was worth keeping at the expense of a potential FA next offseason.
Apparently Bradberry was not worth it.
It's all about long term money. We have very little allocated in that area.
While Williams will be an expiring contract in 2023, he will be carrying a cap hit in excess of $26M with no guaranteed money. He can be cut, saving $18M on the cap with a dead money hit of just over $8M (prorated bonus remaining).
Golloday will have a cap hit of $21.4M, with $4.5M guaranteed. The Giants can cut him and save $6.7M, while incurring a dead cap hit of $14.7M.
Adoree Jackson will carry a cap figure of just under $20M. The Giants can cut him too, saving just over $9M, while incurring a dead cap hit of about $10.5M.
Assuming all 3 are cut, the Giants would save about $35M but have a dead cap figure of $33.7M. Not much savings, but clears all large scale contracts for players (likely) not meeting those costs.
In fact, at that point, before any FA, the highest remaining cap hit would be Andrew Thomas carrying a cap figure of just over $10M.
Now- the downside. That would mean that at a minimum, the Giants would have major holes at both CB positions (unless one or more of the young guys emerge), the QB position, the RB position (assuming they let Barkley go), DL, and WR.
It would be highly unlikely that the Giants could fill all those needs via the draft, which means MORE FA contracts- though likely at lower years and cash.
Still, at least SOME of those needs would be met via the draft- and taking the remaining cap hits in 2023 would clear the cap deck to deal with the pending extensions for Thomas and other high picks who would need to be retained.
So, remember that when we discuss being out of cap hell in 2023, we also have to be cognizant of the fact that there will still be major holes to fill that the draft alone cannot meet- and that the team is NOT likely to be targeting major FA because of future needs.
The cap cleansing isn’t over yet.
While Williams will be an expiring contract in 2023, he will be carrying a cap hit in excess of $26M with no guaranteed money. He can be cut, saving $18M on the cap with a dead money hit of just over $8M (prorated bonus remaining).
Golloday will have a cap hit of $21.4M, with $4.5M guaranteed. The Giants can cut him and save $6.7M, while incurring a dead cap hit of $14.7M.
Adoree Jackson will carry a cap figure of just under $20M. The Giants can cut him too, saving just over $9M, while incurring a dead cap hit of about $10.5M.
Assuming all 3 are cut, the Giants would save about $35M but have a dead cap figure of $33.7M. Not much savings, but clears all large scale contracts for players (likely) not meeting those costs.
In fact, at that point, before any FA, the highest remaining cap hit would be Andrew Thomas carrying a cap figure of just over $10M.
Now- the downside. That would mean that at a minimum, the Giants would have major holes at both CB positions (unless one or more of the young guys emerge), the QB position, the RB position (assuming they let Barkley go), DL, and WR.
It would be highly unlikely that the Giants could fill all those needs via the draft, which means MORE FA contracts- though likely at lower years and cash.
Still, at least SOME of those needs would be met via the draft- and taking the remaining cap hits in 2023 would clear the cap deck to deal with the pending extensions for Thomas and other high picks who would need to be retained.
So, remember that when we discuss being out of cap hell in 2023, we also have to be cognizant of the fact that there will still be major holes to fill that the draft alone cannot meet- and that the team is NOT likely to be targeting major FA because of future needs.
The cap cleansing isn’t over yet.
And I agree that the cap cleansing is not over yet.