IMV, it really illustrates the intention to build the team the right way.
I also believe that it shows that the new FO team is making the decisions and not being dictated to.
They have one proven DB. call it 2 with x-man. Then a bunch of hopes and wishes.
I get JB had to go. Or more to the point, they decided to move on without him. He was a good and reliable player, but so be it. It's just the rest of the CBs have virtually no experience, aside from AJ who is injury prone. And it's not like it's their young guys, they are left over young guys. I liked what I saw from Arob and williams last year, but to count on them is foolish. I would have liked to have seen a similar strategy as with the OL. bring in some highfloor low ceiling Pros and let the young guys earn it. not hand it to them with nothing behind them.
And Logan Ryan was not great, or worth the money or any of that but cutting him is gonna cost more money (with the greviance) then keeping him for depth.
We shall see if they adress CB, but this unit was poorly managed, and the only blemish on an otherwise solid off season. The rest of the D has pieces to be decent and fun to watch
RE: they stand in a pile of shit I would assume. . .
They have one proven DB. call it 2 with x-man. Then a bunch of hopes and wishes.
I get JB had to go. Or more to the point, they decided to move on without him. He was a good and reliable player, but so be it. It's just the rest of the CBs have virtually no experience, aside from AJ who is injury prone. And it's not like it's their young guys, they are left over young guys. I liked what I saw from Arob and williams last year, but to count on them is foolish. I would have liked to have seen a similar strategy as with the OL. bring in some highfloor low ceiling Pros and let the young guys earn it. not hand it to them with nothing behind them.
And Logan Ryan was not great, or worth the money or any of that but cutting him is gonna cost more money (with the greviance) then keeping him for depth.
We shall see if they adress CB, but this unit was poorly managed, and the only blemish on an otherwise solid off season. The rest of the D has pieces to be decent and fun to watch
I think it all comes down to A. Robinson. Maybe they really wanted him last yr in Buffalo and the giants snagged him? If he makes a good step this yr I dont see a lot of holes. Holmes and Flott will battle in the slot. Then they can sign a solid vet for depth. Probably someone from Baltimore familiar with the D and can be another coach in the room.
Dictates that every team has to make these types of decisions every off season . Schoen actually did very well in managing his resources . He couldn’t keep Bradberry . That’s the way it goes . James is now able to prove that he’s still an excellent corner , playing for the Raiders facing the excellent quarterbacks in the AFC West .
As for the Giants , youth is served . I wouldn’t default to signing a washed up , veteran corner . See what you have . Yeah it’s kind of scary but there are reasons why guys who have played corner for years in this league are still unsigned . And none of those reasons are good .
RE: they stand in a pile of shit I would assume. . .
Is how I feel about the defensive backfield right now.
It’s currently probably the worst unit on the field with the biggest lack of depth
If we can’t get to the QB I feel like there will be a lot of late losses this season because we can’t cover
I'm not so confident that the oline will be much better early on. I like Neal and Ezeudu, but they're rookies. Remember Thomas's rookie season? It wasn't very pretty. I think they'll both be good players in time, but maybe not to begin with.
Joe Schoen admitted that the Giants would have been a better team if they'd been able to keep him, but they weren't because it made no financial sense. The failure of some fans to understand that Schoen was put in an untenable position re Bradberry by the previous regime's mismanagement just blows my mind. It's almost as if they would have liked him to do what Gettleman would have done, which is how the Giants got into this position in the first place.
Also, the lamentation over the apparent weakness of the Secondary is equally mind-blowing to me. The Giants were arguably the least talented team in the league. Every unit was weak. Schoen & Co. are rebuilding from the ground up, essentially starting from scratch with a mere handful of players worth keeping. Anyone hoping for a complete rebuild in one offseason was kidding themselves.
Priority One was strengthening the offensive line. Priority Two was energizing the pass-rush. Priority Three was revamping the offense, and that included getting skill players who fit nicely in the new system. Reinforcing the Secondary was put on the back burner, for the most part. Although they did add a few new pieces to it, clearly it was less of a priority than the first three. Wink will just have to deal with that this year, and so should the rest of us.
Dictates that every team has to make these types of decisions every off season . Schoen actually did very well in managing his resources . He couldn’t keep Bradberry . That’s the way it goes . James is now able to prove that he’s still an excellent corner , playing for the Raiders facing the excellent quarterbacks in the AFC West .
As for the Giants , youth is served . I wouldn’t default to signing a washed up , veteran corner . See what you have . Yeah it’s kind of scary but there are reasons why guys who have played corner for years in this league are still unsigned . And none of those reasons are good .
Exactly, tough to obtain / keep players when assets don't exist. I get that there were some draft choices that could have been different, however overall this has the potential to be the best draft in some time. I just hope it plays out during the season, a season where 6 - 7 wins will be a positive arrow pointing up
how these kids will develop under Wink, the Giants might be positive about that area. Yes, we can always improve it, but I’d be concerned if the Giants were.
RE: Shortly after the Giants released Bradberry...
Joe Schoen admitted that the Giants would have been a better team if they'd been able to keep him, but they weren't because it made no financial sense. The failure of some fans to understand that Schoen was put in an untenable position re Bradberry by the previous regime's mismanagement just blows my mind. It's almost as if they would have liked him to do what Gettleman would have done, which is how the Giants got into this position in the first place.
Also, the lamentation over the apparent weakness of the Secondary is equally mind-blowing to me. The Giants were arguably the least talented team in the league. Every unit was weak. Schoen & Co. are rebuilding from the ground up, essentially starting from scratch with a mere handful of players worth keeping. Anyone hoping for a complete rebuild in one offseason was kidding themselves.
Priority One was strengthening the offensive line. Priority Two was energizing the pass-rush. Priority Three was revamping the offense, and that included getting skill players who fit nicely in the new system. Reinforcing the Secondary was put on the back burner, for the most part. Although they did add a few new pieces to it, clearly it was less of a priority than the first three. Wink will just have to deal with that this year, and so should the rest of us.
Excellent response to those who don't understand the why.
how these kids will develop under Wink, the Giants might be positive about that area. Yes, we can always improve it, but I’d be concerned if the Giants were.
"If" the Giants are concerned? If the Giants aren't concerned I'm concerned. In terms of known commodities they have one starting caliber cornerback in an era we're teams are regularly running 4 and 5 receiver sets.
I think some folks (not necessarily you) are hoping that this can be a one year fix. There were several gaping holes on the roster and they were severely hamstrung by the cap. I think they've done a decent job so far. The exta 1st round pick and reade downs helped and if they drafted well may even be a little ahead of the game. I wish they were a little more aggressive with Barkley and Jones tbh but I can understand holding onto them even if they aren't in the long term plans. It's gonna be a tough year. Hope springs eternal and all that stuff but I think quite a few people would benefit from tempering their expectations.
RE: RE: Shortly after the Giants released Bradberry...
Joe Schoen admitted that the Giants would have been a better team if they'd been able to keep him, but they weren't because it made no financial sense. The failure of some fans to understand that Schoen was put in an untenable position re Bradberry by the previous regime's mismanagement just blows my mind. It's almost as if they would have liked him to do what Gettleman would have done, which is how the Giants got into this position in the first place.
Also, the lamentation over the apparent weakness of the Secondary is equally mind-blowing to me. The Giants were arguably the least talented team in the league. Every unit was weak. Schoen & Co. are rebuilding from the ground up, essentially starting from scratch with a mere handful of players worth keeping. Anyone hoping for a complete rebuild in one offseason was kidding themselves.
Priority One was strengthening the offensive line. Priority Two was energizing the pass-rush. Priority Three was revamping the offense, and that included getting skill players who fit nicely in the new system. Reinforcing the Secondary was put on the back burner, for the most part. Although they did add a few new pieces to it, clearly it was less of a priority than the first three. Wink will just have to deal with that this year, and so should the rest of us.
Excellent response to those who don't understand the why.
Exactly. Yet those to whom this message is being sent continue to put their hands over their ears and whine loudly and the top of their voices, refusing to listen or understand….
The release of Bradberry; failure of Solder, many other UFA signings
Just shows me yet again you don't build your team via UFA. You use that to fill holes and when ready to make a run perhaps get that key guy you think make you a lot better.
Bradberry was terrible the first half last year especially when compared to his first year here.
Martinez got hurt but we must hope he rebounds for this year.
I think after this year players that don't fit and have their contracts up will be allowed to walk rather then get overpaid. LOL.
We weren't going to be able to fix every position in less than a year
As it has been mentioned by many one here: the teardown has only begun.
The rebuild has started, sure, but there are a lot players in this roster today that won't be here in 2023.
I am looking forward to watching the young kids perform in 2022 and seeing a semblance of a professional football team that was simply not apparent last year.
We start building the foundation this year with the 2023 offseason being the true start of the "new" roster truly taking shape
Oline of two years ago and last year are just way off base.
Robinson, Jackson, Love, Holmes have all been with the team and are upper tier draft picks or signings. McKinney is a top tier young S. Williams is a young guy who made the team last year and should be better being in the NFL for his second year.
We drafted some young guys who very easily can develop or make the team.
In a rebuild you can't have "vets" taking up spots because it throws your rebuild off (see 2016) and gives you a false sense of accomplishment. Those Vets fall off or cost themselves out quickly and the team then has even less "depth" than it had before because it now has no depth and no starters.
Secondly, you can help a secondary develop with a VERY strong pass rush which on paper the Giants could be unleashing soon.
I get the feeling many here say one thing but expect another. Rebuild is the word used but we need VET depth and better players at this position suddenly becomes the mantra. So which do you want, a rebuild- which takes time and cannot fill all spots at the same time or you want some VET players added to a position group that will eat up $$$ and more than likely NOT be the difference between wins and losses this year but would hamper long term rebuild and growth.
rather than pushing the problem down the road. I get it. I dont like it but I get it. I would have preferred to extend Williams and keep Bradberry for the simple fact that both of those guys show up to work every day. If you are going to keep certain players, keep the ones who you can count on.
Bradberry was a guy that was never injured and played through what Duggan describes as an Achilles issue which explains his play last season. I would have extended LW to get the cap space because I do think he is still a building block. He comes in and plays hard every day. Those are the guys I would invest in.
Im not going to complain about ripping the bandaid off. The only way for a CB to get better is to play. This is the year for them to play and see what we have. Maybe someone surprises and we dont have as big an issue at CB next draft. I think right now the guys we have after Jackson are marginal starters that could improve to be solid or we could see that CB needs to be address early next draft.
but it is funny to me to see the rosy discussion of the secondary by some folks in this thread. I think there's a 95% chance it will be very bad. The "lack of concern" by the front of office doesn't convey to me that they think the unit is fine. It conveys to me that they knew the roster was a mess, did what they could to start improving it, but fully expect to take their lumps this year. That's what a multi-year process looks like vs. in the past when we would have panicked and rushed out to sign an over-priced soon to be injured vet.
In short, the secondary is in all likelihood going to suck. Projecting multiple guys to make leaps isn't all that realistic. Is there a chance it could happen? Sure. Anything's possible. But I don't think that's what the Giants are expecting. I think they just intend to focus on that aspect of the team next season as they work towards cap health and a solid long-term foundation.
how these kids will develop under Wink, the Giants might be positive about that area. Yes, we can always improve it, but I’d be concerned if the Giants were.
"If" the Giants are concerned? If the Giants aren't concerned I'm concerned. In terms of known commodities they have one starting caliber cornerback in an era we're teams are regularly running 4 and 5 receiver sets.
I think some folks (not necessarily you) are hoping that this can be a one year fix. There were several gaping holes on the roster and they were severely hamstrung by the cap. I think they've done a decent job so far. The exta 1st round pick and reade downs helped and if they drafted well may even be a little ahead of the game. I wish they were a little more aggressive with Barkley and Jones tbh but I can understand holding onto them even if they aren't in the long term plans. It's gonna be a tough year. Hope springs eternal and all that stuff but I think quite a few people would benefit from tempering their expectations.
Yeah, not naive enough to think this is a 1 year fix. Game by game for me. Continue to build with young talent in general. Hoping the arrow is finally pointing up
RE: Shortly after the Giants released Bradberry...
Joe Schoen admitted that the Giants would have been a better team if they'd been able to keep him, but they weren't because it made no financial sense. The failure of some fans to understand that Schoen was put in an untenable position re Bradberry by the previous regime's mismanagement just blows my mind. It's almost as if they would have liked him to do what Gettleman would have done, which is how the Giants got into this position in the first place.
Also, the lamentation over the apparent weakness of the Secondary is equally mind-blowing to me. The Giants were arguably the least talented team in the league. Every unit was weak. Schoen & Co. are rebuilding from the ground up, essentially starting from scratch with a mere handful of players worth keeping. Anyone hoping for a complete rebuild in one offseason was kidding themselves.
Priority One was strengthening the offensive line. Priority Two was energizing the pass-rush. Priority Three was revamping the offense, and that included getting skill players who fit nicely in the new system. Reinforcing the Secondary was put on the back burner, for the most part. Although they did add a few new pieces to it, clearly it was less of a priority than the first three. Wink will just have to deal with that this year, and so should the rest of us.
Great post. One can also argue that we still have plenty invested in the secondary: Mckinney, Love, Robinson, Holmes, Jackson, Williams, Flott, Bolden, Corker is not like the cupboard is bare. Having a pass rush will help as well. I liked Bradberry but the cut needed to happen.
What amazes me is that he was in the same scheme yet seemed to go from being pro-bowl caliber to a schlump?! Maybe he would have been better in Winks scheme, maybe not, but it appears that finances, more then anything caused this separation. We’re starting from the ground now and the young guys will have to step up. Can they contribute, I think so. There appears to be some talent still back there, but for Winks system to click, he will need the backend to play tighter coverage. Maybe having a few better pass rushers will help the secondary too?! Anyway, I think we’ll most likely be in search of another CB#1 or 2 next off-season. Depth does not appear to be an issue right now, but replacing Bradberry as CB#1 or 2 will be quite a story to follow this camp.
i see the secondary a lot like the young OL in 2020/2021
that's not all bad but it certainly has the potential to go either way - which you don't want with a unit so important to the overall success of a team. a terrible secondary can break a team the same way a terrible OL can - as happened in BAL last year when Peters/Humphrey were on IR.
McKinney is sort of the promising young guy you hope to build around (like 2020/2021 Thomas).
Jackson is the veteran with ability though perhaps not as good as you hope (kind of like Zeitler).
and then you have a bunch of young guys who were picked throughout the draft and with varying levels of flashes in limited playing time (love, holmes, robinson, flott sort of like peart, lemieux, gates, hernandez). will we get the 2020 versions of those guys where they were productive and improved along the way, or the 2021 versions where they all fell on their collective faces to the point where they are at risk to even make the 2022 53?
i agree with Klatuu's post above - it seems clear that Schoen would have preferred to not be over a barrel with Bradberry's contract so he could have been kept as sort of a 2nd Zeitler even if he's not the best fit for the scheme. The alternative is an important unit hinging on unproven young guys who weren't premium draft picks.
the 2 signings they made today are fine but i'd like to see some more moves to raise the floor. Chuck Clark would be a great add post-june 1. Kyle Fuller and Kevin King are 2 more corners out there on FA with a lot of career starts under their belts.
Joe Schoen admitted that the Giants would have been a better team if they'd been able to keep him, but they weren't because it made no financial sense. The failure of some fans to understand that Schoen was put in an untenable position re Bradberry by the previous regime's mismanagement just blows my mind. It's almost as if they would have liked him to do what Gettleman would have done, which is how the Giants got into this position in the first place.
Also, the lamentation over the apparent weakness of the Secondary is equally mind-blowing to me. The Giants were arguably the least talented team in the league. Every unit was weak. Schoen & Co. are rebuilding from the ground up, essentially starting from scratch with a mere handful of players worth keeping. Anyone hoping for a complete rebuild in one offseason was kidding themselves.
Priority One was strengthening the offensive line. Priority Two was energizing the pass-rush. Priority Three was revamping the offense, and that included getting skill players who fit nicely in the new system. Reinforcing the Secondary was put on the back burner, for the most part. Although they did add a few new pieces to it, clearly it was less of a priority than the first three. Wink will just have to deal with that this year, and so should the rest of us.
Nice post.
RE: Bradberry’s play slipped a ton last year.......
What amazes me is that he was in the same scheme yet seemed to go from being pro-bowl caliber to a schlump?! Maybe he would have been better in Winks scheme, maybe not, but it appears that finances, more then anything caused this separation. We’re starting from the ground now and the young guys will have to step up. Can they contribute, I think so. There appears to be some talent still back there, but for Winks system to click, he will need the backend to play tighter coverage. Maybe having a few better pass rushers will help the secondary too?! Anyway, I think we’ll most likely be in search of another CB#1 or 2 next off-season. Depth does not appear to be an issue right now, but replacing Bradberry as CB#1 or 2 will be quite a story to follow this camp.
Duggan said that Bradberry played through a achilles injury that bothered him throughout the 2022 season.
RE: Shortly after the Giants released Bradberry...
Joe Schoen admitted that the Giants would have been a better team if they'd been able to keep him, but they weren't because it made no financial sense. The failure of some fans to understand that Schoen was put in an untenable position re Bradberry by the previous regime's mismanagement just blows my mind. It's almost as if they would have liked him to do what Gettleman would have done, which is how the Giants got into this position in the first place.
Also, the lamentation over the apparent weakness of the Secondary is equally mind-blowing to me. The Giants were arguably the least talented team in the league. Every unit was weak. Schoen & Co. are rebuilding from the ground up, essentially starting from scratch with a mere handful of players worth keeping. Anyone hoping for a complete rebuild in one offseason was kidding themselves.
Priority One was strengthening the offensive line. Priority Two was energizing the pass-rush. Priority Three was revamping the offense, and that included getting skill players who fit nicely in the new system. Reinforcing the Secondary was put on the back burner, for the most part. Although they did add a few new pieces to it, clearly it was less of a priority than the first three. Wink will just have to deal with that this year, and so should the rest of us.
Great post.
RE: RE: Bradberry’s play slipped a ton last year.......
What amazes me is that he was in the same scheme yet seemed to go from being pro-bowl caliber to a schlump?! Maybe he would have been better in Winks scheme, maybe not, but it appears that finances, more then anything caused this separation. We’re starting from the ground now and the young guys will have to step up. Can they contribute, I think so. There appears to be some talent still back there, but for Winks system to click, he will need the backend to play tighter coverage. Maybe having a few better pass rushers will help the secondary too?! Anyway, I think we’ll most likely be in search of another CB#1 or 2 next off-season. Depth does not appear to be an issue right now, but replacing Bradberry as CB#1 or 2 will be quite a story to follow this camp.
Duggan said that Bradberry played through a achilles injury that bothered him throughout the 2022 season.
cannot play at a good level for the next 2-3 years then the cut makes perfect sense. IF they think he could play well, I might have preferred they kicked that can down the road and kept him at the expense of a vet FA next season or beyond.
This comes down to whether Bradberry is or isn't a good player for the next 2-3 years. He's 29 so it literally could go either way. People saying he's cooked? I aint buying that just yet. He could be, shit many guys don't sniff 30, but many others do.
I'd have kept him if I knew he could give this team 3 more good years and gladly sacrifice a future contract by kicking money down the road. I trust Schoen that he cut the guy because he doesn't think he's got much left.
I get it though...29 is sort of a line of demarcation for NFL skill players. Might as well err on the side of cut.
Schoen has done a really good job of cleaning up the mess. There are still 5 or 6 players that have to go (next off season), to finish cleaning up. In the meantime, he's brought a good amount of new talent to hopefully be molded into competitive units (OL, edge) and there IS some young talent in the defensive backfield. Developing what we have will close up some of the holes and hopefully, we have a pretty good roster that can start to contend next year.
Its the right way to build a team. Some decisions hurt (as he said at his opening presser).
RE: they stand in a pile of shit I would assume. . .
They have one proven DB. call it 2 with x-man. Then a bunch of hopes and wishes.
I get JB had to go. Or more to the point, they decided to move on without him. He was a good and reliable player, but so be it. It's just the rest of the CBs have virtually no experience, aside from AJ who is injury prone. And it's not like it's their young guys, they are left over young guys. I liked what I saw from Arob and williams last year, but to count on them is foolish. I would have liked to have seen a similar strategy as with the OL. bring in some highfloor low ceiling Pros and let the young guys earn it. not hand it to them with nothing behind them.
And Logan Ryan was not great, or worth the money or any of that but cutting him is gonna cost more money (with the greviance) then keeping him for depth.
We shall see if they adress CB, but this unit was poorly managed, and the only blemish on an otherwise solid off season. The rest of the D has pieces to be decent and fun to watch
I agree with you. And i don't think it's black and white. Everyone parroting the idea that JS had no choice is just not being honest. He did have one and you could've extended one solid player but instead i think we're going to be in for another rough season whilst reaching for the low fruit of unrealistic hope.
RE: RE: they stand in a pile of shit I would assume. . .
They have one proven DB. call it 2 with x-man. Then a bunch of hopes and wishes.
I get JB had to go. Or more to the point, they decided to move on without him. He was a good and reliable player, but so be it. It's just the rest of the CBs have virtually no experience, aside from AJ who is injury prone. And it's not like it's their young guys, they are left over young guys. I liked what I saw from Arob and williams last year, but to count on them is foolish. I would have liked to have seen a similar strategy as with the OL. bring in some highfloor low ceiling Pros and let the young guys earn it. not hand it to them with nothing behind them.
And Logan Ryan was not great, or worth the money or any of that but cutting him is gonna cost more money (with the greviance) then keeping him for depth.
We shall see if they adress CB, but this unit was poorly managed, and the only blemish on an otherwise solid off season. The rest of the D has pieces to be decent and fun to watch
I agree with you. And i don't think it's black and white. Everyone parroting the idea that JS had no choice is just not being honest. He did have one and you could've extended one solid player but instead i think we're going to be in for another rough season whilst reaching for the low fruit of unrealistic hope.
Except that no one, save for the usual overly optimistic suspects, has any unrealistic hopes, at least not where the Secondary is concerned. Most agree that the Secondary will probably be the "weakest link" of the defense. Most also agree that kicking the can down the road with Bradberry would be repeating the kind of mistake that was a hallmark of Gettleman's tenure. And most agree that rebuilding the Giants was going to take more than one offseason, that sacrifices would have to be made, and that the team would have to take its lumps this year.
What's unrealistic is the thought that keeping Bradberry would've made the Giants contenders, and that it also made good financial sense. Neither one is true.
As I wrote above, Schoen had a number of priorities heading into his first season as GM. Those had to do with team construction. But above all he had to prioritize getting the team's financial house in order. Just accept that. Accept the short-term pain and expect long-term gain.
the argument to keeping Bradberry would be same as any other - value
if they thought he was a starting level player and fit the scheme well, it would have made sense to prioritize extending him. They didn't think that.
it also may have made sense if the cost was low enough - but it clearly wasn't because Bradberry was apparently far apart in how he valued himself even for teams willing to give up a draft pick for him. there is a pretty ironclad case that team Bradberry overvalued themselves.
if he checked either of those 2 boxes he may not be gone, and i'd guess he'd almost definitely still be here if he checked both. but he didn't check either so he's gone and dead money from the contract contained to this year (plus a 2m credit next year).
IMV, it really illustrates the intention to build the team the right way.
I also believe that it shows that the new FO team is making the decisions and not being dictated to.
I get JB had to go. Or more to the point, they decided to move on without him. He was a good and reliable player, but so be it. It's just the rest of the CBs have virtually no experience, aside from AJ who is injury prone. And it's not like it's their young guys, they are left over young guys. I liked what I saw from Arob and williams last year, but to count on them is foolish. I would have liked to have seen a similar strategy as with the OL. bring in some highfloor low ceiling Pros and let the young guys earn it. not hand it to them with nothing behind them.
And Logan Ryan was not great, or worth the money or any of that but cutting him is gonna cost more money (with the greviance) then keeping him for depth.
We shall see if they adress CB, but this unit was poorly managed, and the only blemish on an otherwise solid off season. The rest of the D has pieces to be decent and fun to watch
I get JB had to go. Or more to the point, they decided to move on without him. He was a good and reliable player, but so be it. It's just the rest of the CBs have virtually no experience, aside from AJ who is injury prone. And it's not like it's their young guys, they are left over young guys. I liked what I saw from Arob and williams last year, but to count on them is foolish. I would have liked to have seen a similar strategy as with the OL. bring in some highfloor low ceiling Pros and let the young guys earn it. not hand it to them with nothing behind them.
And Logan Ryan was not great, or worth the money or any of that but cutting him is gonna cost more money (with the greviance) then keeping him for depth.
We shall see if they adress CB, but this unit was poorly managed, and the only blemish on an otherwise solid off season. The rest of the D has pieces to be decent and fun to watch
I think it all comes down to A. Robinson. Maybe they really wanted him last yr in Buffalo and the giants snagged him? If he makes a good step this yr I dont see a lot of holes. Holmes and Flott will battle in the slot. Then they can sign a solid vet for depth. Probably someone from Baltimore familiar with the D and can be another coach in the room.
As for the Giants , youth is served . I wouldn’t default to signing a washed up , veteran corner . See what you have . Yeah it’s kind of scary but there are reasons why guys who have played corner for years in this league are still unsigned . And none of those reasons are good .
I would say Julian Love is a proven DB that can play both Safety and CB. Not spectacular, but reliable, heady and available.
It’s currently probably the worst unit on the field with the biggest lack of depth
If we can’t get to the QB I feel like there will be a lot of late losses this season because we can’t cover
It’s currently probably the worst unit on the field with the biggest lack of depth
If we can’t get to the QB I feel like there will be a lot of late losses this season because we can’t cover
I'm not so confident that the oline will be much better early on. I like Neal and Ezeudu, but they're rookies. Remember Thomas's rookie season? It wasn't very pretty. I think they'll both be good players in time, but maybe not to begin with.
Also, the lamentation over the apparent weakness of the Secondary is equally mind-blowing to me. The Giants were arguably the least talented team in the league. Every unit was weak. Schoen & Co. are rebuilding from the ground up, essentially starting from scratch with a mere handful of players worth keeping. Anyone hoping for a complete rebuild in one offseason was kidding themselves.
Priority One was strengthening the offensive line. Priority Two was energizing the pass-rush. Priority Three was revamping the offense, and that included getting skill players who fit nicely in the new system. Reinforcing the Secondary was put on the back burner, for the most part. Although they did add a few new pieces to it, clearly it was less of a priority than the first three. Wink will just have to deal with that this year, and so should the rest of us.
As for the Giants , youth is served . I wouldn’t default to signing a washed up , veteran corner . See what you have . Yeah it’s kind of scary but there are reasons why guys who have played corner for years in this league are still unsigned . And none of those reasons are good .
Exactly, tough to obtain / keep players when assets don't exist. I get that there were some draft choices that could have been different, however overall this has the potential to be the best draft in some time. I just hope it plays out during the season, a season where 6 - 7 wins will be a positive arrow pointing up
Also, the lamentation over the apparent weakness of the Secondary is equally mind-blowing to me. The Giants were arguably the least talented team in the league. Every unit was weak. Schoen & Co. are rebuilding from the ground up, essentially starting from scratch with a mere handful of players worth keeping. Anyone hoping for a complete rebuild in one offseason was kidding themselves.
Priority One was strengthening the offensive line. Priority Two was energizing the pass-rush. Priority Three was revamping the offense, and that included getting skill players who fit nicely in the new system. Reinforcing the Secondary was put on the back burner, for the most part. Although they did add a few new pieces to it, clearly it was less of a priority than the first three. Wink will just have to deal with that this year, and so should the rest of us.
"If" the Giants are concerned? If the Giants aren't concerned I'm concerned. In terms of known commodities they have one starting caliber cornerback in an era we're teams are regularly running 4 and 5 receiver sets.
I think some folks (not necessarily you) are hoping that this can be a one year fix. There were several gaping holes on the roster and they were severely hamstrung by the cap. I think they've done a decent job so far. The exta 1st round pick and reade downs helped and if they drafted well may even be a little ahead of the game. I wish they were a little more aggressive with Barkley and Jones tbh but I can understand holding onto them even if they aren't in the long term plans. It's gonna be a tough year. Hope springs eternal and all that stuff but I think quite a few people would benefit from tempering their expectations.
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Joe Schoen admitted that the Giants would have been a better team if they'd been able to keep him, but they weren't because it made no financial sense. The failure of some fans to understand that Schoen was put in an untenable position re Bradberry by the previous regime's mismanagement just blows my mind. It's almost as if they would have liked him to do what Gettleman would have done, which is how the Giants got into this position in the first place.
Also, the lamentation over the apparent weakness of the Secondary is equally mind-blowing to me. The Giants were arguably the least talented team in the league. Every unit was weak. Schoen & Co. are rebuilding from the ground up, essentially starting from scratch with a mere handful of players worth keeping. Anyone hoping for a complete rebuild in one offseason was kidding themselves.
Priority One was strengthening the offensive line. Priority Two was energizing the pass-rush. Priority Three was revamping the offense, and that included getting skill players who fit nicely in the new system. Reinforcing the Secondary was put on the back burner, for the most part. Although they did add a few new pieces to it, clearly it was less of a priority than the first three. Wink will just have to deal with that this year, and so should the rest of us.
Excellent response to those who don't understand the why.
Exactly. Yet those to whom this message is being sent continue to put their hands over their ears and whine loudly and the top of their voices, refusing to listen or understand….
Bradberry was terrible the first half last year especially when compared to his first year here.
Martinez got hurt but we must hope he rebounds for this year.
I think after this year players that don't fit and have their contracts up will be allowed to walk rather then get overpaid. LOL.
The rebuild has started, sure, but there are a lot players in this roster today that won't be here in 2023.
I am looking forward to watching the young kids perform in 2022 and seeing a semblance of a professional football team that was simply not apparent last year.
We start building the foundation this year with the 2023 offseason being the true start of the "new" roster truly taking shape
It’s currently probably the worst unit on the field with the biggest lack of depth
If we can’t get to the QB I feel like there will be a lot of late losses this season because we can’t cover
There's no excuse for this D line not to get to the QB. Plenty of money and high draft picks spent on it.
Robinson, Jackson, Love, Holmes have all been with the team and are upper tier draft picks or signings. McKinney is a top tier young S. Williams is a young guy who made the team last year and should be better being in the NFL for his second year.
We drafted some young guys who very easily can develop or make the team.
In a rebuild you can't have "vets" taking up spots because it throws your rebuild off (see 2016) and gives you a false sense of accomplishment. Those Vets fall off or cost themselves out quickly and the team then has even less "depth" than it had before because it now has no depth and no starters.
Secondly, you can help a secondary develop with a VERY strong pass rush which on paper the Giants could be unleashing soon.
I get the feeling many here say one thing but expect another. Rebuild is the word used but we need VET depth and better players at this position suddenly becomes the mantra. So which do you want, a rebuild- which takes time and cannot fill all spots at the same time or you want some VET players added to a position group that will eat up $$$ and more than likely NOT be the difference between wins and losses this year but would hamper long term rebuild and growth.
Bradberry was a guy that was never injured and played through what Duggan describes as an Achilles issue which explains his play last season. I would have extended LW to get the cap space because I do think he is still a building block. He comes in and plays hard every day. Those are the guys I would invest in.
Im not going to complain about ripping the bandaid off. The only way for a CB to get better is to play. This is the year for them to play and see what we have. Maybe someone surprises and we dont have as big an issue at CB next draft. I think right now the guys we have after Jackson are marginal starters that could improve to be solid or we could see that CB needs to be address early next draft.
Lets see what Wink can do with these kids.
In short, the secondary is in all likelihood going to suck. Projecting multiple guys to make leaps isn't all that realistic. Is there a chance it could happen? Sure. Anything's possible. But I don't think that's what the Giants are expecting. I think they just intend to focus on that aspect of the team next season as they work towards cap health and a solid long-term foundation.
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how these kids will develop under Wink, the Giants might be positive about that area. Yes, we can always improve it, but I’d be concerned if the Giants were.
"If" the Giants are concerned? If the Giants aren't concerned I'm concerned. In terms of known commodities they have one starting caliber cornerback in an era we're teams are regularly running 4 and 5 receiver sets.
I think some folks (not necessarily you) are hoping that this can be a one year fix. There were several gaping holes on the roster and they were severely hamstrung by the cap. I think they've done a decent job so far. The exta 1st round pick and reade downs helped and if they drafted well may even be a little ahead of the game. I wish they were a little more aggressive with Barkley and Jones tbh but I can understand holding onto them even if they aren't in the long term plans. It's gonna be a tough year. Hope springs eternal and all that stuff but I think quite a few people would benefit from tempering their expectations.
Yeah, not naive enough to think this is a 1 year fix. Game by game for me. Continue to build with young talent in general. Hoping the arrow is finally pointing up
Also, the lamentation over the apparent weakness of the Secondary is equally mind-blowing to me. The Giants were arguably the least talented team in the league. Every unit was weak. Schoen & Co. are rebuilding from the ground up, essentially starting from scratch with a mere handful of players worth keeping. Anyone hoping for a complete rebuild in one offseason was kidding themselves.
Priority One was strengthening the offensive line. Priority Two was energizing the pass-rush. Priority Three was revamping the offense, and that included getting skill players who fit nicely in the new system. Reinforcing the Secondary was put on the back burner, for the most part. Although they did add a few new pieces to it, clearly it was less of a priority than the first three. Wink will just have to deal with that this year, and so should the rest of us.
Great post. One can also argue that we still have plenty invested in the secondary: Mckinney, Love, Robinson, Holmes, Jackson, Williams, Flott, Bolden, Corker is not like the cupboard is bare. Having a pass rush will help as well. I liked Bradberry but the cut needed to happen.
McKinney is sort of the promising young guy you hope to build around (like 2020/2021 Thomas).
Jackson is the veteran with ability though perhaps not as good as you hope (kind of like Zeitler).
and then you have a bunch of young guys who were picked throughout the draft and with varying levels of flashes in limited playing time (love, holmes, robinson, flott sort of like peart, lemieux, gates, hernandez). will we get the 2020 versions of those guys where they were productive and improved along the way, or the 2021 versions where they all fell on their collective faces to the point where they are at risk to even make the 2022 53?
i agree with Klatuu's post above - it seems clear that Schoen would have preferred to not be over a barrel with Bradberry's contract so he could have been kept as sort of a 2nd Zeitler even if he's not the best fit for the scheme. The alternative is an important unit hinging on unproven young guys who weren't premium draft picks.
the 2 signings they made today are fine but i'd like to see some more moves to raise the floor. Chuck Clark would be a great add post-june 1. Kyle Fuller and Kevin King are 2 more corners out there on FA with a lot of career starts under their belts.
Also, the lamentation over the apparent weakness of the Secondary is equally mind-blowing to me. The Giants were arguably the least talented team in the league. Every unit was weak. Schoen & Co. are rebuilding from the ground up, essentially starting from scratch with a mere handful of players worth keeping. Anyone hoping for a complete rebuild in one offseason was kidding themselves.
Priority One was strengthening the offensive line. Priority Two was energizing the pass-rush. Priority Three was revamping the offense, and that included getting skill players who fit nicely in the new system. Reinforcing the Secondary was put on the back burner, for the most part. Although they did add a few new pieces to it, clearly it was less of a priority than the first three. Wink will just have to deal with that this year, and so should the rest of us.
Nice post.
Duggan said that Bradberry played through a achilles injury that bothered him throughout the 2022 season.
Also, the lamentation over the apparent weakness of the Secondary is equally mind-blowing to me. The Giants were arguably the least talented team in the league. Every unit was weak. Schoen & Co. are rebuilding from the ground up, essentially starting from scratch with a mere handful of players worth keeping. Anyone hoping for a complete rebuild in one offseason was kidding themselves.
Priority One was strengthening the offensive line. Priority Two was energizing the pass-rush. Priority Three was revamping the offense, and that included getting skill players who fit nicely in the new system. Reinforcing the Secondary was put on the back burner, for the most part. Although they did add a few new pieces to it, clearly it was less of a priority than the first three. Wink will just have to deal with that this year, and so should the rest of us.
Great post.
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What amazes me is that he was in the same scheme yet seemed to go from being pro-bowl caliber to a schlump?! Maybe he would have been better in Winks scheme, maybe not, but it appears that finances, more then anything caused this separation. We’re starting from the ground now and the young guys will have to step up. Can they contribute, I think so. There appears to be some talent still back there, but for Winks system to click, he will need the backend to play tighter coverage. Maybe having a few better pass rushers will help the secondary too?! Anyway, I think we’ll most likely be in search of another CB#1 or 2 next off-season. Depth does not appear to be an issue right now, but replacing Bradberry as CB#1 or 2 will be quite a story to follow this camp.
Duggan said that Bradberry played through a achilles injury that bothered him throughout the 2022 season.
That would certainly explain A LOT, imo
This comes down to whether Bradberry is or isn't a good player for the next 2-3 years. He's 29 so it literally could go either way. People saying he's cooked? I aint buying that just yet. He could be, shit many guys don't sniff 30, but many others do.
I'd have kept him if I knew he could give this team 3 more good years and gladly sacrifice a future contract by kicking money down the road. I trust Schoen that he cut the guy because he doesn't think he's got much left.
I get it though...29 is sort of a line of demarcation for NFL skill players. Might as well err on the side of cut.
Its the right way to build a team. Some decisions hurt (as he said at his opening presser).
I get JB had to go. Or more to the point, they decided to move on without him. He was a good and reliable player, but so be it. It's just the rest of the CBs have virtually no experience, aside from AJ who is injury prone. And it's not like it's their young guys, they are left over young guys. I liked what I saw from Arob and williams last year, but to count on them is foolish. I would have liked to have seen a similar strategy as with the OL. bring in some highfloor low ceiling Pros and let the young guys earn it. not hand it to them with nothing behind them.
And Logan Ryan was not great, or worth the money or any of that but cutting him is gonna cost more money (with the greviance) then keeping him for depth.
We shall see if they adress CB, but this unit was poorly managed, and the only blemish on an otherwise solid off season. The rest of the D has pieces to be decent and fun to watch
I agree with you. And i don't think it's black and white. Everyone parroting the idea that JS had no choice is just not being honest. He did have one and you could've extended one solid player but instead i think we're going to be in for another rough season whilst reaching for the low fruit of unrealistic hope.
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They have one proven DB. call it 2 with x-man. Then a bunch of hopes and wishes.
I get JB had to go. Or more to the point, they decided to move on without him. He was a good and reliable player, but so be it. It's just the rest of the CBs have virtually no experience, aside from AJ who is injury prone. And it's not like it's their young guys, they are left over young guys. I liked what I saw from Arob and williams last year, but to count on them is foolish. I would have liked to have seen a similar strategy as with the OL. bring in some highfloor low ceiling Pros and let the young guys earn it. not hand it to them with nothing behind them.
And Logan Ryan was not great, or worth the money or any of that but cutting him is gonna cost more money (with the greviance) then keeping him for depth.
We shall see if they adress CB, but this unit was poorly managed, and the only blemish on an otherwise solid off season. The rest of the D has pieces to be decent and fun to watch
I agree with you. And i don't think it's black and white. Everyone parroting the idea that JS had no choice is just not being honest. He did have one and you could've extended one solid player but instead i think we're going to be in for another rough season whilst reaching for the low fruit of unrealistic hope.
Except that no one, save for the usual overly optimistic suspects, has any unrealistic hopes, at least not where the Secondary is concerned. Most agree that the Secondary will probably be the "weakest link" of the defense. Most also agree that kicking the can down the road with Bradberry would be repeating the kind of mistake that was a hallmark of Gettleman's tenure. And most agree that rebuilding the Giants was going to take more than one offseason, that sacrifices would have to be made, and that the team would have to take its lumps this year.
What's unrealistic is the thought that keeping Bradberry would've made the Giants contenders, and that it also made good financial sense. Neither one is true.
As I wrote above, Schoen had a number of priorities heading into his first season as GM. Those had to do with team construction. But above all he had to prioritize getting the team's financial house in order. Just accept that. Accept the short-term pain and expect long-term gain.
it also may have made sense if the cost was low enough - but it clearly wasn't because Bradberry was apparently far apart in how he valued himself even for teams willing to give up a draft pick for him. there is a pretty ironclad case that team Bradberry overvalued themselves.
if he checked either of those 2 boxes he may not be gone, and i'd guess he'd almost definitely still be here if he checked both. but he didn't check either so he's gone and dead money from the contract contained to this year (plus a 2m credit next year).