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NGT: '00-'01 BAL Ravens 30 for 30

26.2 : 5/18/2022 8:26 am
ESPN started production on it. I may skip the last few minutes of this one.
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Nope  
Greg from LI : 5/18/2022 8:33 am : link
Not watching that
I would rather be kicked in the balls for an hour straight.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/18/2022 8:42 am : link
Than watch that.
Yeah, not going to watch.  
Klaatu : 5/18/2022 8:46 am : link
In the immortal words of Sam Malone, "I'd rather chew on tinfoil and comb my hair with a cheese grater."
.  
Danny Kanell : 5/18/2022 8:55 am : link
Pass
Sure -- that's going to be great watching for a Giants fan  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/18/2022 8:58 am : link
Not!
RE: I would rather be kicked in the balls for an hour straight.  
Klaatu : 5/18/2022 9:00 am : link
In comment 15712046 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Than watch that.


I know some chicks who'll do that to you, but you have to pay in advance.
......  
Route 9 : 5/18/2022 9:23 am : link
How about a 30 for 30 on Super Bowl XLII already?

Jesus Christ. They did that boring one about Raiders jackets but the biggest upset in sports in recent years?

Nah.
......  
Route 9 : 5/18/2022 9:29 am : link
I remember thinking the Giants actually had a decent shot. I thought the final could go 13-10, either way.

I thought the way the Ravens won the Titans game was laughable. The Titans moved the ball pretty well but their kicker missed like 3 or 4 kicks lol
I thought it would be a low-scoring dogfight  
Greg from LI : 5/18/2022 9:32 am : link
Losing is one thing, but giving up 34 points to the putrid Ravens offense is what really annoys me 20 years later.
well, actually I guess their offense only scored 20  
Greg from LI : 5/18/2022 9:34 am : link
Still
The worst part of that Ravens SB...  
BamaBlue : 5/18/2022 9:37 am : link
was Kerry Collins. It was probably his worst game as a Giant. The Giants defense and special teams didn't help in any way, but I really expected Collins to do some damage to an exceptional Ravens defense.
RE: ......  
Essex : 5/18/2022 9:38 am : link
In comment 15712111 Route 9 said:
Quote:
I remember thinking the Giants actually had a decent shot. I thought the final could go 13-10, either way.

I thought the way the Ravens won the Titans game was laughable. The Titans moved the ball pretty well but their kicker missed like 3 or 4 kicks lol

I just thought the Ravens defense was vastly overrated. Statistically they were fantastic, but I also felt it was a very, very down year for the NFL. I remember the joke (and I believe Wellington Mara mentioned it during the NFC trophy presentation on the field) that we were the worst team ever to go to a super bowl or something like that. Anyway, had issues that year and I forget why, but if the team that showed up in 99 and 01 played the Ravens they would have smashed that defense.
Jim Fassel (may he R.I.P.) was just happy to be there.  
Optimus-NY : 5/18/2022 9:44 am : link
That game was lost before it was even played. The game plan was cowardly, as Amani Toomer has said numerous times over the years. If you're gonna go down, then do so swinging. Larry MacDuff's "expertise" as a Special Teams coach didn't shine through that game. The Officials blew that effing defensive holding call on Hammer when Jesse Armstead ran the ball back for 6 too.

I don't mind losing to that Ravens squad, but don't spit the bit defensively, giving up 20 points to that horrid offensive squad. Sure, they could run the ball, but the giants were also a fine defensive team and shouldn't have given up more than 10 points to that team. Effing Brandon Stokley getting behind the defense. Come on. Yuck. Fat Ass Siragusa acting like he was Joe Greene and shit. Why not make a 30 for 30 about the Bucs' 2002 team then? One hit wonders.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/18/2022 9:47 am : link
I'm still mad about the phantom penalty on Hammer the erased Armstead's pick 6. It felt like that changed the entire complexion of the game.

Collins looked spooked from the start, so maybe it wouldn't have mattered but it still annoys me.
RE: well, actually I guess their offense only scored 20  
Big Blue '56 : 5/18/2022 9:49 am : link
In comment 15712117 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Still


Their O was pathetic in the overall. They shouldn’t have scored even 10, imo..
would have been 10-7 had the Armstead pick-6 stood, right?  
Greg from LI : 5/18/2022 9:52 am : link
Probably nothing really changes, but who knows? Maybe they rally around that. Maybe they don't play scared after that.
Any thought that the Ravens Defense was overrated...  
BamaBlue : 5/18/2022 9:52 am : link
is just not right. This was the best defense in the NFL in '99-'00 hands down. They are comparable to the all-time great NFL defenses: '62 Packers, '71 Vikings, '76 Steelers, '85 Bears, '86 Giants,
Optimus  
Klaatu : 5/18/2022 9:53 am : link
I'm no body language expert, but I thought the game was lost when the players approached midfield for the coin toss. I remember seeing how the Ravens players looked vs. how the Giants players looked and thought,Oh, shit!
RE: Jim Fassel (may he R.I.P.) was just happy to be there.  
Big Blue '56 : 5/18/2022 9:57 am : link
In comment 15712128 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
That game was lost before it was even played. The game plan was cowardly, as Amani Toomer has said numerous times over the years. If you're gonna go down, then do so swinging. Larry MacDuff's "expertise" as a Special Teams coach didn't shine through that game. The Officials blew that effing defensive holding call on Hammer when Jesse Armstead ran the ball back for 6 too.

I don't mind losing to that Ravens squad, but don't spit the bit defensively, giving up 20 points to that horrid offensive squad. Sure, they could run the ball, but the giants were also a fine defensive team and shouldn't have given up more than 10 points to that team. Effing Brandon Stokley getting behind the defense. Come on. Yuck. Fat Ass Siragusa acting like he was Joe Greene and shit. Why not make a 30 for 30 about the Bucs' 2002 team then? One hit wonders.


I got a lot of flack when I commented that watching Fassel’s eyes/look during the anthem, gave me an awful feeling. He looked scared shitless to me..
RE: would have been 10-7 had the Armstead pick-6 stood, right?  
Essex : 5/18/2022 9:57 am : link
In comment 15712142 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Probably nothing really changes, but who knows? Maybe they rally around that. Maybe they don't play scared after that.

I thought it would have been 7-7.
That defense was great for that one year  
Greg from LI : 5/18/2022 9:58 am : link
But it was kind of a perfect storm. They were very good in the year before and the year after but nowhere near like 2000, and outside of Ray Lewis, they didn't really have a lot of all-timers. Rod Woodson, but he was near the end of his career. Chris McAlister and Duane Starks were good CBs, but hardly Canton material. Their DEs were Rob Burnette and Michael McCrary, fairly anonymous players.
RE: RE: would have been 10-7 had the Armstead pick-6 stood, right?  
Greg from LI : 5/18/2022 9:59 am : link
In comment 15712153 Essex said:
Quote:

I thought it would have been 7-7.


Looked it up and you're right, the FG was after the negated interception
Didn't Fassel wear his 00 NFC title ring afterwards?  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/18/2022 10:00 am : link
I remember The Rug finding that unseemly, which I agree with.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/18/2022 10:01 am : link
Peter Boulware was very good, too.
Boulware was good  
Greg from LI : 5/18/2022 10:05 am : link
But as I recall was never quite the player he was hyped to be coming out of FSU
.  
arcarsenal : 5/18/2022 10:10 am : link
Yeah, he wasn't an all-pro and playing alongside Ray Lewis probably helped... but he did rack up 70 sacks in 102 starts which is pretty impressive.

The knee injury he sustained in 2003 effectively ended his career.
RE: .  
Big Blue '56 : 5/18/2022 10:11 am : link
In comment 15712169 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Yeah, he wasn't an all-pro and playing alongside Ray Lewis probably helped... but he did rack up 70 sacks in 102 starts which is pretty impressive.

The knee injury he sustained in 2003 effectively ended his career.


Not a stat guy per se, but that’s pretty good sack production for PB, imo
I have made my peace with that Super Bowl  
Chris684 : 5/18/2022 10:25 am : link
Does it suck? Yes.

Do I think the Hamilton call or anything else made that big a difference? No.

History has proven that that defense was an all-time great unit in the story of the NFL. To me, there is pain of course, but no shame having lost that one.

Overall 2000 was still an extremely fun and memorable season even though it ended poorly. And on somewhat of a side note, I'll always appreciate Fassel and Collins for their tenure here. They accomplished more than most HC/QB combos do in this league in a relatively short time together.

RE: That defense was great for that one year  
Route 9 : 5/18/2022 10:25 am : link
In comment 15712154 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But it was kind of a perfect storm. They were very good in the year before and the year after but nowhere near like 2000, and outside of Ray Lewis, they didn't really have a lot of all-timers. Rod Woodson, but he was near the end of his career. Chris McAlister and Duane Starks were good CBs, but hardly Canton material. Their DEs were Rob Burnette and Michael McCrary, fairly anonymous players.


I remember correctly, the following year, week 1 or week or 2 the Steelers figured them out and ditched the run on first down strategy and spread the Baltimore defense out.

If not, give me a break and I was 15.
RE: RE: That defense was great for that one year  
Big Blue '56 : 5/18/2022 10:37 am : link
In comment 15712192 Route 9 said:
Quote:
In comment 15712154 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


But it was kind of a perfect storm. They were very good in the year before and the year after but nowhere near like 2000, and outside of Ray Lewis, they didn't really have a lot of all-timers. Rod Woodson, but he was near the end of his career. Chris McAlister and Duane Starks were good CBs, but hardly Canton material. Their DEs were Rob Burnette and Michael McCrary, fairly anonymous players.



I remember correctly, the following year, week 1 or week or 2 the Steelers figured them out and ditched the run on first down strategy and spread the Baltimore defense out.

If not, give me a break and I was 15.


What I couldn’t understand then and that continues to this day, is why didn’t we follow the Jets and Jax template of that year. They had 4 and 5 wide and gave the Ravens FITS..We had two weeks to emulate that even if our receivers weren’t necessarily elite. JF was an offense guy, he should have come up with a similar type plan instead of playing perfectly into the Ravens hands, imv
Once  
Toth029 : 5/18/2022 10:41 am : link
Fatass Siragusa sat on Gannon, it was over.
RE: RE: RE: That defense was great for that one year  
arcarsenal : 5/18/2022 10:46 am : link
In comment 15712208 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15712192 Route 9 said:


Quote:


In comment 15712154 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


But it was kind of a perfect storm. They were very good in the year before and the year after but nowhere near like 2000, and outside of Ray Lewis, they didn't really have a lot of all-timers. Rod Woodson, but he was near the end of his career. Chris McAlister and Duane Starks were good CBs, but hardly Canton material. Their DEs were Rob Burnette and Michael McCrary, fairly anonymous players.



I remember correctly, the following year, week 1 or week or 2 the Steelers figured them out and ditched the run on first down strategy and spread the Baltimore defense out.

If not, give me a break and I was 15.



What I couldn’t understand then and that continues to this day, is why didn’t we follow the Jets and Jax template of that year. They had 4 and 5 wide and gave the Ravens FITS..We had two weeks to emulate that even if our receivers weren’t necessarily elite. JF was an offense guy, he should have come up with a similar type plan instead of playing perfectly into the Ravens hands, imv


IIRC, Testaverde threw for almost 500 yards on them at the end of the regular season.
RE: Once  
Greg from LI : 5/18/2022 10:50 am : link
In comment 15712219 Toth029 said:
Quote:
Fatass Siragusa sat on Gannon, it was over.


Dirty as hell, that was
RE: Once  
Route 9 : 5/18/2022 10:53 am : link
In comment 15712219 Toth029 said:
Quote:
Fatass Siragusa sat on Gannon, it was over.


They did almost the same thing to McNair in the Titans game. I don't remember if it was Tony or not but they had a cheap shot in there.

That Rich Gannon driving to the ground act was so obvious Siragusa to injure him. Did he even receive a fine or anything? I was stunned that their names didn't come up in a bounty report when all that Saints drama was going down.

Maybe it's the Ravens thing but I just fucking hate that guy so much. Tony Siragusa might have been THE worst sideline reporter (or whatever the hell he was) of all time, I'd take Erin Andrews or any other woman over him.
yes, he was fined $10K  
Greg from LI : 5/18/2022 10:55 am : link
.
*  
Route 9 : 5/18/2022 10:55 am : link
Had the intent to injure Gannon
The Armstead call  
Tuckrule : 5/18/2022 11:24 am : link
Was the game. When that flag was thrown it was over
RE: The Armstead call  
Mike from Ohio : 5/18/2022 12:21 pm : link
In comment 15712291 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Was the game. When that flag was thrown it was over


It was a huge call, but it did not change the direction of that game. The Ravens were dialed in and ready. The Giants were just happy to be there. It was never going to be a game.
I remember they had  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/18/2022 12:47 pm : link
two monster DT's in Siragusa and Adams who both were 340 plus. I think the week before it was Siragusa who knocked out Gannon.

That Dominant inside allowed Lewis to roam free and the run D was outstanding. Then a talented secondary might have spooked Collins with those two monsters laying a shot on him.
RE: I remember they had  
Big Blue '56 : 5/18/2022 1:00 pm : link
In comment 15712402 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
two monster DT's in Siragusa and Adams who both were 340 plus. I think the week before it was Siragusa who knocked out Gannon.

That Dominant inside allowed Lewis to roam free and the run D was outstanding. Then a talented secondary might have spooked Collins with those two monsters laying a shot on him.


Yup, much in the same way Little Mo and Grier paved the path for Huff
RE: I would rather be kicked in the balls for an hour straight.  
Jints in Carolina : 5/18/2022 1:22 pm : link
In comment 15712046 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Than watch that.


we have...for the past ten years
Fuck them  
Spiciest Memelord : 5/18/2022 1:31 pm : link
and that overrated murderer.
It would have been 7-7 after the Armstead TD....  
No Where Man : 5/18/2022 2:13 pm : link
but more importantly it would have been a huge momentum swing which the NYG desperately needed at that time.....
RE: Boulware was good  
widmerseyebrow : 5/18/2022 2:15 pm : link
In comment 15712164 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But as I recall was never quite the player he was hyped to be coming out of FSU


I think he was probably on his way to borderline HoF had he not blown out his knee and retired after a poor comeback. 67 sacks in 7 seasons is pretty impressive.
Adams and Siragusa  
widmerseyebrow : 5/18/2022 2:19 pm : link
were the cornerstones shutting down the interior run game and keeping Lewis, Sharper, and Boulware free. Everything just built on that.
RE: It would have been 7-7 after the Armstead TD....  
rsjem1979 : 5/18/2022 2:39 pm : link
In comment 15712469 No Where Man said:
Quote:
but more importantly it would have been a huge momentum swing which the NYG desperately needed at that time.....


Collins still would have found a way to fuck it up. Even with the Hamilton TD wiped out, the Giants had the ball at the BAL 29 with a minute left in the 1st half, trailing only 10-0.

A FG there and it's a one-possession game at the half, but Collins decides to chuck one up for grabs into the double coverage, of course it's picked off.

Then the 2nd half was an even bigger shitshow.
let me know when they make one of the Giants completely kicking  
Victor in CT : 5/18/2022 2:41 pm : link
the shit out of them in 2008. Just repeat Jacobs flattening the murderer over and over.
RE: I thought it would be a low-scoring dogfight  
bw in dc : 5/18/2022 3:18 pm : link
In comment 15712115 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Losing is one thing, but giving up 34 points to the putrid Ravens offense is what really annoys me 20 years later.


That one stung. Losing to Trent Dilfer is/was embarrassing.

Plus, Billick was hired as offensive guru, yet couldn't get that offense even close to the one he left behind in Minnesota. He essentially rode the coattails of the great D that Marvin Lewis constructed.

That team was the definition of a one trick pony...
RE: let me know when they make one of the Giants completely kicking  
arcarsenal : 5/18/2022 3:28 pm : link
In comment 15712494 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
the shit out of them in 2008. Just repeat Jacobs flattening the murderer over and over.


One of the most satisfying regular season wins in my memory. Quite a few of them in 2008.

Life was pretty darn good when we were 11-1 and defending Champs.
Worst GIANT loss I've evah seen!  
Grey Pilgrim : 5/18/2022 3:40 pm : link
:brutal:
It was mentioned above  
arniefez : 5/18/2022 4:02 pm : link
TN kicked their ass on both sides of the ball and their FG kicker Al Del Greco single handedly lost the game.
All I remember about that game is the fake holding call  
sb from NYT Forum : 5/18/2022 4:17 pm : link
... and also Tiki getting chased down and tackled from behind by Ray Lewis for no gain on an off-tackle sweep running away from Ray Lewis.
RE: let me know when they make one of the Giants completely kicking  
Optimus-NY : 5/18/2022 6:31 pm : link
In comment 15712494 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
the shit out of them in 2008. Just repeat Jacobs flattening the murderer over and over.


One of the most satisfying games ever. The difference between aa Coughlin coached team and a Fassel coached one.
......  
Route 9 : 5/18/2022 9:03 pm : link
I was at that 2008 game. That was the best Giants home game at the old stadium I went to by a mile.

It was nice to actually see the crowd that into a game and it was nice to actually see the Giants give them a good reason to be.
RE: RE: It would have been 7-7 after the Armstead TD....  
jnoble : 5/18/2022 11:10 pm : link
In comment 15712493 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
In comment 15712469 No Where Man said:


Quote:


but more importantly it would have been a huge momentum swing which the NYG desperately needed at that time.....



Collins still would have found a way to fuck it up. Even with the Hamilton TD wiped out, the Giants had the ball at the BAL 29 with a minute left in the 1st half, trailing only 10-0.

A FG there and it's a one-possession game at the half, but Collins decides to chuck one up for grabs into the double coverage, of course it's picked off.

Then the 2nd half was an even bigger shitshow.


And what we didn't know until after it was all over was Collins was playing hurt and for whatever reason Fassel kept him in the game instead of going to Jason Garrett on the 2nd half who was not only not injured but probably not scared out of his mind like Collins was.
RE: RE: RE: That defense was great for that one year  
jnoble : 5/18/2022 11:12 pm : link
In comment 15712208 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15712192 Route 9 said:


Quote:


In comment 15712154 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


But it was kind of a perfect storm. They were very good in the year before and the year after but nowhere near like 2000, and outside of Ray Lewis, they didn't really have a lot of all-timers. Rod Woodson, but he was near the end of his career. Chris McAlister and Duane Starks were good CBs, but hardly Canton material. Their DEs were Rob Burnette and Michael McCrary, fairly anonymous players.



I remember correctly, the following year, week 1 or week or 2 the Steelers figured them out and ditched the run on first down strategy and spread the Baltimore defense out.

If not, give me a break and I was 15.



What I couldn’t understand then and that continues to this day, is why didn’t we follow the Jets and Jax template of that year. They had 4 and 5 wide and gave the Ravens FITS..We had two weeks to emulate that even if our receivers weren’t necessarily elite. JF was an offense guy, he should have come up with a similar type plan instead of playing perfectly into the Ravens hands, imv


I have no idea why Fassel came up with that pussy game plan either. You can make a good argument he should have been fired after that debacle for not coming in prepared properly
RE: RE: RE: That defense was great for that one year  
NINEster : 5/19/2022 10:33 am : link
In comment 15712208 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15712192 Route 9 said:


Quote:


In comment 15712154 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


But it was kind of a perfect storm. They were very good in the year before and the year after but nowhere near like 2000, and outside of Ray Lewis, they didn't really have a lot of all-timers. Rod Woodson, but he was near the end of his career. Chris McAlister and Duane Starks were good CBs, but hardly Canton material. Their DEs were Rob Burnette and Michael McCrary, fairly anonymous players.



I remember correctly, the following year, week 1 or week or 2 the Steelers figured them out and ditched the run on first down strategy and spread the Baltimore defense out.

If not, give me a break and I was 15.



What I couldn’t understand then and that continues to this day, is why didn’t we follow the Jets and Jax template of that year. They had 4 and 5 wide and gave the Ravens FITS..We had two weeks to emulate that even if our receivers weren’t necessarily elite. JF was an offense guy, he should have come up with a similar type plan instead of playing perfectly into the Ravens hands, imv


This is why the '00 Ravens and '85 Bears defenses were IMO really good but a bit overhyped. Marino exposed the Bears on MNF that season, and within a few years they were nothing.

A true all time defense just doesn't allow themselves to be exposed quite so easily. Those '80s Giants Belichick defenses never seemingly cracked. Underrated AF, and Montana/Young have mentioned it was consistently tough as you could imagine.
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