How Will Giants Run Defense Perform Against Division Rivals?

know who will actually be on the team, it is pretty hard to determine.
They did get big Jelly from the Ravens for NT, Martinez will be back, Thibs will be on one end and I would bet one of the rookie ILB will start alongside Martinez.

On paper, looks pretty decent.

Every year is new in the NFL.

Different players, different coaches, different injuries, different schemes, etc.

And how Wink uses them. I do agree, though, that an improved offense should take some pressure off of the defense.

In comment 15713022 ZogZerg said:

Quote:

Every year is new in the NFL. Different players, different coaches, different injuries, different schemes, etc.

Welp, let's start with the Eagles. Their 2022 O-Line is pretty much the same as 2021. And last season they led the entire NFL in rushing, so the Giants are gonna be facing the same mean SOBs who stomped on them a year ago.

Different coaches and Different schemes. Teams were pretty much able to do whatever they wanted to our defense last year.

Last year we really missed having Tomlinson and losing martinez. We will be aided this year with the addition of Thibodaux and hopefully the offense produces more and teams will be throwing more, which would allow Martindale to attack more.

Will our DB's provide at least adequate run support? Don't know.

Will we stay relatively healthy? Don't know.

De we have enough depth in case we aren't? Don't know.

The sky is falling, already.

In comment 15713038 section125 said:

Quote:

The sky is falling, already.

Is it? I went outside and looked, but it's very cloudy, so...don't know.

In comment 15713037 Klaatu said:

Quote:

Will our DB's provide at least adequate run support? Don't know. Will we stay relatively healthy? Don't know. De we have enough depth in case we aren't? Don't know.

Depth after Leonard Williams and Dexter Lawrence?

Nope.

Our secondary is the weakness of the defense so I expect teams to pass way more than run. If the offense plays like the teams our coaches came from expect high scoring games.

all excellent at this. They need more talent still but I expect this area to be better this year and by next year very good.

With his blitzing scheme it is critical to be ahead in the down/distance area.

In comment 15713042 M.S. said:

Quote:

In comment 15713037 Klaatu said: Quote: Will our DB's provide at least adequate run support? Don't know. Will we stay relatively healthy? Don't know. De we have enough depth in case we aren't? Don't know. Depth after Leonard Williams and Dexter Lawrence? Nope.

Jihad Ward, Justin Ellis...

I think OLB/DE looks pretty decent.

That’s where teams repeatedly gouged us if I remember correctly. Hopefully Thibodeaux and a 2nd year Ojulari will make a difference there. Of course, Martinez should help as well as long as he is recovered. I think the front 3 will be solid enough.

...and of the team will play a big role. 5 of the 6 games come in the last 7 games.

Agree that with a perceived weakness in the secondary, teams may throw against us a little more than they would otherwise.

Perhaps an opportunity for Thibodeaux, Ojulari, Williams & co to rack up the sack numbers?

Justin Ellis has a grand career total of 1/2 sack and six tackles for a loss.

As for Jihad Ward, the former 2016 Second Round Draft Selections of the Raiders:

Per Season Averages (pro-rated to 16-game season)
22 Tackles
3 Tackles for Loss
2.5 Sacks

the Giants have been giving up the majority of first downs in the air with a "decent" secondary for the last two years -- and they have the highest percentage of scores against them in the last two minutes of the half mostly through the air -- and they lost two of the best cornerback/safeties without replacing them talent wise -- and the run is what is going to lose games for the Giants --- that's a Giant failure in logic

A bunch of new players. Not a single game played. Hold on I will look into the crystal ball

bad as Wink's defense was in Baltimore last year, it was #1 against the run.

He knows how to coach defense, if we have the players (and we should).

In comment 15713082 gidiefor said:

Quote:

the Giants have been giving up the majority of first downs in the air with a "decent" secondary for the last two years -- and they have the highest percentage of scores against them in the last two minutes of the half mostly through the air -- and they lost two of the best cornerback/safeties without replacing them talent wise -- and the run is what is going to lose games for the Giants --- that's a Giant failure in logic

The Giants secondary was torched last season because the front line provided zero pass rush. Not because of a "talent issue" in their secondary.

The talent issue I'm now raising is their run defense.

And because the running game and the passing game are symbiotic, I'm not feeling rosy about our secondary IF our run defense gets shredded again like it did last season.

Dal, Phi and Wash were not in the top 10 in Rushing last year, they were all middle of the road. There is no correlation to rushing yards and wins and losses anymore. When the Giants beat Philly, Philly ran for 208 yards, when they beat us they only rushed for 130 yards.

Dallas and Kansas City were 19th and 20th in rush yards against and both were 12-5. Buffalo was 15th and Arizona was 21. They were all playoff teams. Pittsburgh made the playoffs and was dead last in the league giving up 143 yards a game.

If you look, generally the teams that have the best overall offense were playoff teams and on D its a mixed bag. Carolina gave up the 2nd fewest yards but was a terrible team. Carolina, Cleveland, Chicago and Denver were all in the top 10 in yards against but were all bottom of the league.

There are outliers but for the most part, teams that move the ball are playoff teams regardless of the D.

In comment 15713082 gidiefor said:

Quote:

the Giants have been giving up the majority of first downs in the air with a "decent" secondary for the last two years -- and they have the highest percentage of scores against them in the last two minutes of the half mostly through the air -- and they lost two of the best cornerback/safeties without replacing them talent wise -- and the run is what is going to lose games for the Giants --- that's a Giant failure in logic

This is what James Bradberry said on why he joined the Eagles:

“I saw the guys on the d-line and as a DB, sometimes your best friend is the d-line,” he said. “So I’m looking forward to it.”

“I think the overall scheme, it fit my abilities the best,” he said.

In comment 15713066 M.S. said:

Quote:

Justin Ellis has a grand career total of 1/2 sack and six tackles for a loss. As for Jihad Ward, the former 2016 Second Round Draft Selections of the Raiders: Per Season Averages (pro-rated to 16-game season) 22 Tackles 3 Tackles for Loss 2.5 Sacks

To be fair, Ellis and Ward both played in a lot of schemes where they were asked to occupy blockers to free up LB's to make plays. You don't see a lot of guys like Chad Bratzke these days on the DL getting 60+ tackles/10+ sacks. Aaron Donald, the DL everyone is looking for, has broken 60 tackles TWICE in his career and that is despite missing only 2 games in 8 years.

In comment 15713040 Klaatu said:

Quote:

In comment 15713038 section125 said: Quote: The sky is falling, already. Is it? I went outside and looked, but it's very cloudy, so...don't know.

Low ceiling = sky falling. Industry term.

again if you have some free time. Dallas and Philly (number 1) both were in the top 10 and playoff teams. WFT was 12 with a backup QB.

7/10 teams in the top 10 rushing were in the playoffs including Buffalo. Cleveland had Mayfield who struggled with a injury.

KC has a HOF HC and a outstanding skill group. Cincy might have had the best trio of WR's in the league. So while not great rushing teams they had a superior advantage to help offset. Similar to the 2011 Giants WR's with our HOF QB.

setting the edge was imo the biggest problem the first half last year when Ximines was starting (why he was I have no idea). things got better when Roche and others started playing more, and i think they will get even better this year with Thibodeaux and Ward. They have size and power multiple levels above those guys.

Antonio Johnson to Jelly is questionable in terms of the run and a likely downgrade overall. Davidson and the UDFAs are an unknown.

obviously getting Martinez back would make a big impact if he can return to health.

i'd also imagine the young DBs will tackle better than the vets because if they don't they won't play and that was the biggest red flag with some of the vets last year.

there are still some vet DL out there in FA and it wouldn't surprise me to see them add one. Brandon Williams from BAL may be cooked but if not maybe Wink lets him compete with Jelly. Linval Joseph is hanging out there and that would be a fun reunion. Star Lotuleiei may also be cooked or he may not be.

there's also a group of better players but they might be more expensive than nyg can afford - akiem hicks, eddie goldman, sheldon richardson. joseph may be in that group too. but if they are looking for a place they can get a bunch of snaps and start this depth chart offers that chance.

In comment 15713112 Mike in NY said:

Quote:

In comment 15713066 M.S. said: Quote: Justin Ellis has a grand career total of 1/2 sack and six tackles for a loss. As for Jihad Ward, the former 2016 Second Round Draft Selections of the Raiders: Per Season Averages (pro-rated to 16-game season) 22 Tackles 3 Tackles for Loss 2.5 Sacks To be fair, Ellis and Ward both played in a lot of schemes where they were asked to occupy blockers to free up LB's to make plays. You don't see a lot of guys like Chad Bratzke these days on the DL getting 60+ tackles/10+ sacks. Aaron Donald, the DL everyone is looking for, has broken 60 tackles TWICE in his career and that is despite missing only 2 games in 8 years.

Definitely true that "space-eaters" typically do not light up the stats board. But when you have a really good space- eater, they can wreak havoc on the run game at the LOS and behind.

Patrick Graham was one of the most overrated defensive coordinators. Somehow he went from a first-year, Miami Dolphins DC castoff to some sort of "hot prize" despite two mediocre years with the Giants and an inability to defend an offense at the end of a half.

In comment 15713090 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

bad as Wink's defense was in Baltimore last year, it was #1 against the run. He knows how to coach defense, if we have the players (and we should).

that's an interesting fact i hadn't realized so i looked up their snap counts. wink rotated his DL way more than Graham did.

here was their DL rotation by snaps played:

Calais Campbell - 56% - 617 snaps
Justin Madubuike - 45% - 484 snaps
Brandon Williams - 41% - 448 snaps
Justin Ellis - 35% - 382 snaps
Broderick Washington - 27% - 293 snaps

by contrast Leonard Williams played 76% of the time with 888 snaps and Dexter Lawrence played 65% of the time with 757 snaps.

I would expect to see both of those numbers come down a lot and more of a rotation deployed.

Automatically makes the Giants run defense better.

Thibs and the bigger, Aziz will hold edge better.

If Blake recovers fully.....his 150+ tackles were miss

Wink better than Graham.

after looking at the O Lines in this division, I think the Giants could have the best one by years end.

In comment 15713203 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Patrick Graham was one of the most overrated defensive coordinators. Somehow he went from a first-year, Miami Dolphins DC castoff to some sort of "hot prize" despite two mediocre years with the Giants and an inability to defend an offense at the end of a half.

Couldn't agree more with this statement. Was very happy that he didn't come back. Sitting in a zone and letting teams have 13 play drives with a bad offense was a terrible strategy. I'd rather throw blitz packages all day and either get the QB or have them score and not wear out the defense.

I was thrilled he left. I hate that type of defense. If you're going to get torched, and there's a probability the Giants will more times in 2022 than we can stand, at least go down swinging and trying to attack.

IMO the best thing the Giants defense has going for them in 2022 is a lot of young legs. Hopefully Wink can deploy them to the Giants advantage more often than not but I think it's unrealistic to look at the current personnel and think this is going to be an elite defense this year. I think with another free agency and draft 2023 could be a lot of fun for us to watch.

In comment 15713292 Doubledeuce22 said:

Quote:

after looking at the O Lines in this division, I think the Giants could have the best one by years end.

If we can be better than these Philly dudes, then that's saying something!

LT Jordan Mailata
LG Landon Dickerson
C Jason Kelce
RG Isaac Seumalo
RT Lane Johnson

In comment 15713332 M.S. said:

Quote:

In comment 15713292 Doubledeuce22 said: Quote: after looking at the O Lines in this division, I think the Giants could have the best one by years end. If we can be better than these Philly dudes, then that's saying something! LT Jordan Mailata LG Landon Dickerson C Jason Kelce RG Isaac Seumalo RT Lane Johnson

For sure.

Have the best line so far but their Guard spots aren't anything special.

In comment 15713332 M.S. said:

Quote:

In comment 15713292 Doubledeuce22 said: Quote: after looking at the O Lines in this division, I think the Giants could have the best one by years end. If we can be better than these Philly dudes, then that's saying something! LT Jordan Mailata LG Landon Dickerson C Jason Kelce RG Isaac Seumalo RT Lane Johnson

Hoping Kelce/Johnson for the Eagles and then Martin/Smith take a nosedive and it takes both a decade to find very good replacements. Much of each teams respective success has been most attributable to the strength on the OL both have had.

It's typically been their key issue and teams know it...

did not entirely trust new skinny Graham, he was like the new Darrin in Bewitched.

Opponents will average 4.728 rushing yes. Book it!

In comment 15713117 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 15713040 Klaatu said: Quote: In comment 15713038 section125 said: Quote: The sky is falling, already. Is it? I went outside and looked, but it's very cloudy, so...don't know. Low ceiling = sky falling. Industry term.

What industry would that be?

In comment 15713203 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Patrick Graham was one of the most overrated defensive coordinators. Somehow he went from a first-year, Miami Dolphins DC castoff to some sort of "hot prize" despite two mediocre years with the Giants and an inability to defend an offense at the end of a half.

Boy is this true. Scoring at end of half or game was an automatic by the opposing team.

I hope those teams run rather than pass against us. WRs in the NFCE are good everywhere but here.

In comment 15713475 Klaatu said:

Quote:

In comment 15713117 djm said: Quote: In comment 15713040 Klaatu said: Quote: In comment 15713038 section125 said: Quote: The sky is falling, already. Is it? I went outside and looked, but it's very cloudy, so...don't know. Low ceiling = sky falling. Industry term. What industry would that be?

it was a joke, low ceiling = meteorology.

In comment 15713301 Doubledeuce22 said:

Quote:

In comment 15713203 Eric from BBI said: Quote: Patrick Graham was one of the most overrated defensive coordinators. Somehow he went from a first-year, Miami Dolphins DC castoff to some sort of "hot prize" despite two mediocre years with the Giants and an inability to defend an offense at the end of a half. Couldn't agree more with this statement. Was very happy that he didn't come back. Sitting in a zone and letting teams have 13 play drives with a bad offense was a terrible strategy. I'd rather throw blitz packages all day and either get the QB or have them score and not wear out the defense.

You can sit back in a zone if you have the horses to win upfront; problem was that Graham didn't have the horses and never tried to compensate for it.