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Thursday, May 19 OTA #3
Approx. 9:35 a.m. – Head Coach Brian Daboll Available
Approx. 9:45 a.m. – Offensive Coordinator Mike Kafka Available
10:15 a.m. – 12:15 p.m. – Practice
Offensive Assistants Available – After Practice
Players Available – After Practice
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I don't want the 67th pick of the draft sitting on the bench. He wasn't drafted to be an insurance policy. There are plenty of vets who can provide depth at OG, just in case Ezeudu is pressed into service at OT.
He was a 3rd round pick and the draft is always about the future. I want Ezeudu to be a starter one day but I would much rather have Lemieux earn the LG job. Why would anyone not want an abundance of good offensive linemen? I would never want to go into a season needing a rookie 3rd round pick to contribute immediately.
3rd round picks start all the time. If he's the best man for the job he ought to start. Shane Lemieux is hardly Quentin Nelson.
Nasty reputation
3rd round picks start all the time. If he's the best man for the job he ought to start. Shane Lemieux is hardly Quentin Nelson.
The majority of them do not start week one. I never said Lemieux is a great player let alone Quenton Nelson. All I am saying is that I hope that both Lemieux and Ezeudu deserve to start but Lemieux earns the starting job because it's his 3rd season. Ezeudu is also more versatile than Lemieux so he makes more sense as a backup as he can play every position but center. That's value that the Giants don't usually have. How great would it be if the Giants future starting OL is:
LT Andrew Thomas
LG Shane Lemieux
C Nick Gates
RG Josh Ezeudu
RT Evan Neal
Giants OTAs observations: Kadarius Toney and Kenny Golladay’s health, good (and bad) Daniel Jones throws, O-Line starters, mor - ( New Window )
Nasty reputation
Feliciano and Glowinski are both nasty guys also. These are the type of attitudes that I've wanted the Giants to bring in for the offensive line for years. They haven't had that since the days of Diehl, Seubert, and Snee.
They need more pieces at Edge and DL.
If he's healthy that's the next focus. It is going to take time for him to get his strength back to where it was. Even if he is fully cleared I think that the Giants will consider playing it safe with Gates by keeping him on the bench for the first few weeks of the season.
Giants OTAs observations: Kadarius Toney and Kenny Golladay’s health, good (and bad) Daniel Jones throws, O-Line starters, mor - ( New Window )
There is a lot of good stuff in this report.
They need more pieces at Edge and DL.
I expect them to use an early pick on a defensive lineman in next years draft. I bet that Schoen would have stayed at 36 and taken Logan Hall if he was still on the board. After this season only Leonard Williams and Dexter Lawrence are locks to be on the roster but Lawrence will be entering the final year of his contract.
Out of all the draft picks DJ Davidson was my least favorite one but now I hope that he can at least provide value as a rotational NT. They need to invest assets next offseason into this unit even if one of these UDFA's or FA's exceed expectations.
I think they made a change a few years ago to do smaller groups instead of all rookies at once. If that's the case I don't know why they don't cluster teams in groups when they dont have OTAs.
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3rd round picks start all the time. If he's the best man for the job he ought to start. Shane Lemieux is hardly Quentin Nelson.
The majority of them do not start week one. I never said Lemieux is a great player let alone Quenton Nelson. All I am saying is that I hope that both Lemieux and Ezeudu deserve to start but Lemieux earns the starting job because it's his 3rd season. Ezeudu is also more versatile than Lemieux so he makes more sense as a backup as he can play every position but center. That's value that the Giants don't usually have. How great would it be if the Giants future starting OL is:
LT Andrew Thomas
LG Shane Lemieux
C Nick Gates
RG Josh Ezeudu
RT Evan Neal
Why do you insist on putting Ezeudu at RG, a position he never played in college?
Anyway, Damien Lewis was the 69th pick of his draft and he started from day one in Seattle. Jonah Jackson was the 76th pick of his draft and did the same in Detroit. Tyre Phillips, pick #106 for Baltimore, won the starting job in camp, but then got hurt. It happens more often than you think, especially when the rookie goes to team where the competition is weak.
And why should Lemieux get the nod just because it's his third season? Are we back to scholarships now?
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But obviously has a long way to go just to try to get back into football shape. I wouldn't look for any contribution this year.
If he's healthy that's the next focus. It is going to take time for him to get his strength back to where it was. Even if he is fully cleared I think that the Giants will consider playing it safe with Gates by keeping him on the bench for the first few weeks of the season.
I think the time frame is a lot further out. Did you watch the video clip of him? He's carrying a lot of bad weight, and has lost most of his muscle tone. I would expect something more like a minimum of 4 to 6 months just to get back in shape. The rehab on his injury must limit what he's able to do to work out, and even after he gets back in shape, there are the questions of whether the leg can stand up to football, and if he is still able to perform at a high enough level to play in the NFL.
I would expect a red shirt year to see if he can come back to the team.
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Giants will have a pass rush, largely due to Thibs talent and the trickle down effect to the others. Leo's terrific at 3-4 DE, Dexter has his moments. I'm not a huge Ojulari fan (he has to show me he's more than a Patriots contain DE).
They need more pieces at Edge and DL.
I expect them to use an early pick on a defensive lineman in next years draft. I bet that Schoen would have stayed at 36 and taken Logan Hall if he was still on the board. After this season only Leonard Williams and Dexter Lawrence are locks to be on the roster but Lawrence will be entering the final year of his contract.
Out of all the draft picks DJ Davidson was my least favorite one but now I hope that he can at least provide value as a rotational NT. They need to invest assets next offseason into this unit even if one of these UDFA's or FA's exceed expectations.
#36 on Hall, I'd wager you are correct. That's whom I was watching until he was picked.
They need DL, and interested to see what their DL choices look like moving forward. Because the last regime didn't seem to have a plan.
As he should, and I hope it's Ezeudu.
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the best player will start at left guard.
As he should, and I hope it's Ezeudu.
I think i'd actually consider him the favorite because his strength seems to be pass pro. all of the new regime's actions seem geared towards that as the priority. "width in the pocket".
i liked lemiuex, saw flashes from bredeson, and don't discount that garcia has started a lot of games but none of them seem known for pass pro.
ezeudu was only credited with 2 sacks in his whole college career and they came this past year when he spent almost 300 snaps at LT (don't know if they came at guard or tackle).
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@DDuggan21
Some notes from today's OTA:
• Ton of empty sets and pre-snap motion in this offense. A healthy Saquon is going to catch a ton of passes. Jones was getting the ball out quick, lot of RPOs.
• Saquon was lined up in the slot on one play with Matt Breida in the backfield and ran a deep post. Julian Love intercepted Daniel Jones on that play, don't believe Saquon was the target.
• Tyrod Taylor had the throw the day, a bomb to Robert Foster over UDFA CB Zyon Gilbert
Depth chart is pretty messy at this point with so many guys limited/sidelined, but here goes:
1 OL: LT Cunningham, LG Lemieux, C Feliciano, RG Glowinski, RT Neal
2 OL: LT Hamilton, LG Ezeudu, C Bredeson/Garcia (alternated), McKethan, RT Gono. McKethan also got work at #3 RT.
1D: DL Williams, DL Ju. Ellis, OLB Thibodeaux, OLB Ojulari, ILB Martinez, ILB Crowder, CB Jackson, CB Robinson, Slot CB Holmes, S McKinney, S Love.
2D: DL Moa, DL Davidson, OLB Ward, OLB Smith, ILB Brown, ILB Coughlin, CB Gilbert, CB Evans, Slot CB Flott, S Williams, S Belton.
3D: DL Hinton, DL Holmes, OLB Ximines, OLB Lalos, ILB Brunson, ILB Hilliard, CB Jacquet, CB Canady, Slot CB Dorsey, S Corker, S Black.
Recorded D lineups during install period, so guys in red jerseys like Martinez and Brown sat out the live team periods.
They need more pieces at Edge and DL.
Jon, Thibs might be the one... Kill me. I do this every single year.
I think i'd actually consider him the favorite because his strength seems to be pass pro. all of the new regime's actions seem geared towards that as the priority. "width in the pocket".
This is a good point that I didn't consider. It will come down to pass protection. If Lemieux doesn't show noticeable improvement in pass protection then Ezeudu will likely be the starting LG week one. It will be very interesting to see how they line up in training camp. It will be very telling if Ezeudu continues see time at tackle.
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Why were Thibodeaux and Neal at practice today and not at the "mandatory" rookie symposium with Robinson?
I think they made a change a few years ago to do smaller groups instead of all rookies at once. If that's the case I don't know why they don't cluster teams in groups when they dont have OTAs.
I see, it would have made far more sense to schedule this around teams OTA's. There are already too few offseason practices.
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@DDuggan21
Lemieux not only working as the No. 1 LG, he’s not even in a red jersey. Appears to be totally recovered from the patellar injury.
Need more quality back-ups on defense.
Need offense to score more points to take pressure off this defense.
Frenchy and Dirtbag? Awesome
• Saquon was lined up in the slot on one play with Matt Breida in the backfield and ran a deep post.
for teams with RBs capable of it. purely from an economics standpoint RBs are more than 50% cheaper, so if you have one who can function as a WR, why not do so? That makes them more valuable. Aaron Jones in GB has sort of functioned as a primary target for Rodgers whenever Davante Adams missed games.
the free market will adapt to that - but the tags won't until that happens and the nyg have 2 years of tags they can use on Barkley.
Why do you insist on putting Ezeudu at RG, a position he never played in college?
Anyway, Damien Lewis was the 69th pick of his draft and he started from day one in Seattle. Jonah Jackson was the 76th pick of his draft and did the same in Detroit. Tyre Phillips, pick #106 for Baltimore, won the starting job in camp, but then got hurt. It happens more often than you think, especially when the rookie goes to team where the competition is weak.
And why should Lemieux get the nod just because it's his third season? Are we back to scholarships now?
In that scenario Lemieux would already be the starting LG where he spent his entire college career and he has started there in the NFL next to Andrew Thomas so I put Ezeudu at RG because of continuity on the left side.
I never that 3rd round rookie offensive linemen don't start. What I said was that I don't want to go into a season needing a rookie 3rd round to start because that can go very wrong. Also the majority of rookie 3rd round picks don't start.
Once again I want whoever plays the best to start at LG and again I hope that they both do because then it is a great problem to have. Lemieux has hardly ever played on the right side either but it is far easier to go from LG to RG than it is to go from G to T or T to G. Ezeudu could easily make the transition over and he will have to get comfortable there if he doesn't earn a starting job.
Now you're doing the ridiculous nonsense of twisting what I said. I said I would prefer Lemieux starts if he earns it because he is more experienced and he in entering a critical season in his career. I never said he should start just because he's entering his 3rd season that's ridiculous and you know I didn't mean that.
You are acting like I insulted you when all I said was that I hope that Lemieux earns the starting LG spot but Ezeudu plays well too because then the Giants have good depth along the OL. Ezeudu is more versatile than Lemieux too so having that asset on the bench when the need arises will be very beneficial.
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I don't want the 67th pick of the draft sitting on the bench. He wasn't drafted to be an insurance policy. There are plenty of vets who can provide depth at OG, just in case Ezeudu is pressed into service at OT.
He was a 3rd round pick and the draft is always about the future. I want Ezeudu to be a starter one day but I would much rather have Lemieux earn the LG job. Why would anyone not want an abundance of good offensive linemen? I would never want to go into a season needing a rookie 3rd round pick to contribute immediately.
I think everyone wants the best player to play and the coaches not force a guy into the lineup because of his status. Wouldnt it show improvement on the OL if the incumbent is beaten out by the rookie or even a FA? Lemieux is still like a 2nd year player since he pretty much missed all of last year. If Ezeudo is the better player I want him starting. I am hoping he is the better player because it makes us better and I assume coaches want the best players on the field out of merit not out of favoritism.
OTA Report (5/19): Observations from practice - ( New Window )
Julian Love's INT highlights OTA No. 3 - ( New Window )
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• Saquon was lined up in the slot on one play with Matt Breida in the backfield and ran a deep post.
for teams with RBs capable of it. purely from an economics standpoint RBs are more than 50% cheaper, so if you have one who can function as a WR, why not do so? That makes them more valuable. Aaron Jones in GB has sort of functioned as a primary target for Rodgers whenever Davante Adams missed games.
the free market will adapt to that - but the tags won't until that happens and the nyg have 2 years of tags they can use on Barkley.
Yeah, that’s what we should be doing...tagging Barkley
I think everyone wants the best player to play and the coaches not force a guy into the lineup because of his status. Wouldnt it show improvement on the OL if the incumbent is beaten out by the rookie or even a FA? Lemieux is still like a 2nd year player since he pretty much missed all of last year. If Ezeudo is the better player I want him starting. I am hoping he is the better player because it makes us better and I assume coaches want the best players on the field out of merit not out of favoritism.
Lemieux wasn't part of the disastrous OL last season so it is unfair to lump him in with them. The OL played it's best during the 2020 season when Lemieux was in the lineup. Again as Eric on LI pointed out it will likely come down to the pass protection. If Lemieux doesn't show improvement there then I don't want him starting at LG. If Ezeudu is significantly better than him in that area then I want him to start.
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In comment 15713690 Eric from BBI said:
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• Saquon was lined up in the slot on one play with Matt Breida in the backfield and ran a deep post.
for teams with RBs capable of it. purely from an economics standpoint RBs are more than 50% cheaper, so if you have one who can function as a WR, why not do so? That makes them more valuable. Aaron Jones in GB has sort of functioned as a primary target for Rodgers whenever Davante Adams missed games.
the free market will adapt to that - but the tags won't until that happens and the nyg have 2 years of tags they can use on Barkley.
Yeah, that’s what we should be doing...tagging Barkley
do you ever get sick of misunderstanding the franchise tag?
how is it so hard to grasp the fact that it's a low risk option year almost every organization utilizes occasionally and every organization uses the 5th year rookie options which are functionally the same thing as the transition tag and widely regarded as a benefit to first round picks?
can you relay this post to all your other handles so this can be the last time?
the new regime kept Barkley around on his 5YO so apparently not just me.
the offer doesn't matter if he viewed the contract as a negative asset - any offer removes it from the cap.
Maybe all those suitors weren’t thinking about the huge future opportunity they would have to tag him....
I also don't believe that a guy who played the majority of his college games at LG (with a little LT and RT thrown in for good measure) should be moved to RG for the sake of "continuity," whatever that means. I would hope the Giants are done trying to fit square pegs into round holes.
Now, I reread one of your posts and I was wrong about the scholarship thing. You did not state that Lemieux should start because of his time-in-service. For that I apologize.
Besides we have seen our other Guards play and there is certainly nothing special they bring to the table…
He would also have to beat out Lemieux and Garcia. Experience matters a lot for coaches. Lemieux knows what he's doing, and Max Garcia was decent enough to make the probowl as an alternate. That is not nothing.
If Ezeudu wins a starting job as a rookie on merit, it's a triumph for the front office. If he doesn't, it's by no means a failure in any way.
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In comment 15713605 JonC said:
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Giants will have a pass rush, largely due to Thibs talent and the trickle down effect to the others. Leo's terrific at 3-4 DE, Dexter has his moments. I'm not a huge Ojulari fan (he has to show me he's more than a Patriots contain DE).
They need more pieces at Edge and DL.
I expect them to use an early pick on a defensive lineman in next years draft. I bet that Schoen would have stayed at 36 and taken Logan Hall if he was still on the board. After this season only Leonard Williams and Dexter Lawrence are locks to be on the roster but Lawrence will be entering the final year of his contract.
Out of all the draft picks DJ Davidson was my least favorite one but now I hope that he can at least provide value as a rotational NT. They need to invest assets next offseason into this unit even if one of these UDFA's or FA's exceed expectations.
#36 on Hall, I'd wager you are correct. That's whom I was watching until he was picked.
They need DL, and interested to see what their DL choices look like moving forward. Because the last regime didn't seem to have a plan.
I wanted Hall at #36, but would have been surprised if he made it to us.
I also don't believe that a guy who played the majority of his college games at LG (with a little LT and RT thrown in for good measure) should be moved to RG for the sake of "continuity," whatever that means. I would hope the Giants are done trying to fit square pegs into round holes.
Why are you pretending that you don't know what continuity means? Coughlin used to discuss it often as it was a one of the reasons why the Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, Snee, and McKenzie line was so good. Here is a couple of articles about OL continuity if you really don't know what it means.
https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/news/new-york-giants-offensive-line-looking-to-build-continuity
https://nypost.com/2016/05/31/o-line-continuity-which-every-team-craves-could-bite-giants/
https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2019/10/05/new-york-giants-finally-have-continuity-along-the-offensive-line/
https://www.giants.com/news/o-line-continuity-will-be-key-to-success-19117220
https://www.rotoviz.com/2021/03/offensive-line-continuity-landscape-ahead-2021-nfl-draft/
See we actually agree that the best man should start which is what you are missing. I just want both players to be good and deserve to start which I imagine you would want too.
In addition, the Giants have committed to Mark Glowinski for at least another two years. The guy they should be grooming to eventually replace him is McKethan, not Ezeudu.
Cohesion is what the Giants should be shooting for as they develop their new O-Line. That's not going to happen overnight, and even if they get it done this year, it may suffer again next year as some vets are released and newer pieces are added (particularly at OC). Continuity is something you shoot for after you have five guys cemented in place for the long-term. The Giants aren't even close to worrying about that yet.
In addition, the Giants have committed to Mark Glowinski for at least another two years. The guy they should be grooming to eventually replace him is McKethan, not Ezeudu.
Cohesion is what the Giants should be shooting for as they develop their new O-Line. That's not going to happen overnight, and even if they get it done this year, it may suffer again next year as some vets are released and newer pieces are added (particularly at OC). Continuity is something you shoot for after you have five guys cemented in place for the long-term. The Giants aren't even close to worrying about that yet.
Continuity is continuity. I never said to play Ezeudu at RG I said if Lemieux earns and keeps the LG spot then the Giants would have the opportunity for Ezeudu to play the RG spot. Chris Snee played RG here for a long time and he was the most athletic interior OL on the team.
Now if Lemieux and Ezeudu become starting caliber players then they can flip Lemieux and Ezeudu wherever they fit in best with the new scheme. I don't understand why on earth you're acting like it's insane to expect a guard to play both guard spots. So it's reasonable for Ezeudu to play LG, LT and RT but RG is just an insane proposition? Ignoring the fact that Ezeudu has played on the right side before it is far more difficult to go from tackle to guard or guard to tackle than it is to go from LG to RG. We've witnessed numerous guards play both spots for the Giants most recently Lemieux, Hernandez, Seubert, Diehl, Whittle, Boothe, etc.