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Thursday, May 19 OTA #3
Approx. 9:35 a.m. – Head Coach Brian Daboll Available
Approx. 9:45 a.m. – Offensive Coordinator Mike Kafka Available
10:15 a.m. – 12:15 p.m. – Practice
Offensive Assistants Available – After Practice
Players Available – After Practice
Not just Ojulari but Leonard Williams will likely benefit the most from Thibodeaux's presence. Teams will not be able to double team him as frequently as they have with Thibodeaux outside. If Ojulari takes a big leap forward too then the defense can be a very good unit.
In fact, there are lots of things that get presented as fact here that don't match reality.
If he's healthy, he'll be starting on the OL.
When Lemieux stepped into the starting lineup as a rookie the running game took off. Lemieux was a much better run blocker especially when he was asked to pull. Lemieux did struggle in pass protection and he needed to improve there if he wanted to be a complete guard. Unfortunately last season we didn't get to see the progress he made in that area but I have little doubt that he will be an average guard in pass protection. I'm not sure if he will ever be good in that area but he can still be a very solid starting guard if he continues to improve in both areas.
That has been my thought all along. Ojalari did fantastic last year while offenses schemed around him so he did it all without a lick of help by having another pass threat. Now all the focus of the opposition will be in stopping Thibs so Ojalari should have an easier path to the QB. If he gets double digit sacks, we are headed in a nice direction.
I like Ojulari and I am confident that he will be a good player for the Giantsnow that he's not the alpa pass rusher but he was far from fantastic last year. He was their best pass rusher but he wasn't a consistent player. With the exception of a play or two a game he didn't really stand out. With that said he was a rookie who is still just 21 years old. He needed time to add muscle to his frame which he noticeably did this offseason but let's not inflate his production last year.
In fact, there are lots of things that get presented as fact here that don't match reality.
If he's healthy, he'll be starting on the OL.
I'm not sure what the narrative is, but he became the starter by being the best of a terrible group of players and the Giants have better talent to compete for time at LG now. I'm looking forward to seeing how that competition goes but fool's bet to think it's already decided in may.
From afar, it just seems like there much positive energy in that building at the moment.
The coaching staff also doesnt have a vested interest in Lemieux so if one of the FA or rookies are even with him I think they will get the nod over Lemieux.
The OL coach also talked about reps, injured players are going to have an uphill battle because of reps it seems.
In fact, there are lots of things that get presented as fact here that don't match reality.
If he's healthy, he'll be starting on the OL.
But it’s okay for you to present things as fact...
Tell me Thibs is not going to make LW and Ojulari more productive. I am too excited, too soon. Talk me down.
Wink's philosophy is much different than Graham's, fortunately, so we will see what happens differently.
From afar, it just seems like there much positive energy in that building at the moment.
I think the staff has been pretty tepid with praise. Unless I have missed something it seems to focus on that he is a "hard worker", "teammates respect him" and "picks things up". Pretty similar to what has always been said about him.
Not "he is going to be really good", "he has everything you need in a QB", etc.
I like Olijari recognizing he needed to add power and did something about it this offseason.
I'm not sure what the narrative is, but he became the starter by being the best of a terrible group of players and the Giants have better talent to compete for time at LG now. I'm looking forward to seeing how that competition goes but fool's bet to think it's already decided in may.
Oh he's definitely not set as the starting LG but many of us expect him to be the starter there. Will he finish the season as the starter is a different story.
Let's hope that Lemieux earns the LG spot and keeps it so that will keep Ezeudu on the bench where he provides good depth at both guard and tackle. Then he can be groomed as Glowinski's replacement in 2-3 years.
In comment 15713429 Eric from BBI said:
CB James Bradberry
CB Adoree’ Jackson
CB Darnay Holmes
CB Aaron Robinson
CB Isaac Yiadom
CB Sam Beal
CB Quincy Wilson
S Jabrill Peppers
S Logan Ryan
S Xavier McKinney
S Julian Love
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I'm not sure what the narrative is, but he became the starter by being the best of a terrible group of players and the Giants have better talent to compete for time at LG now. I'm looking forward to seeing how that competition goes but fool's bet to think it's already decided in may.
Oh he's definitely not set as the starting LG but many of us expect him to be the starter there. Will he finish the season as the starter is a different story.
Let's hope that Lemieux earns the LG spot and keeps it so that will keep Ezeudu on the bench where he provides good depth at both guard and tackle. Then he can be groomed as Glowinski's replacement in 2-3 years.
I'm hoping Ezeudu wins the job, and McKethan is Glowinski's eventual replacement in a year or two.
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I'm not sure what the narrative is, but he became the starter by being the best of a terrible group of players and the Giants have better talent to compete for time at LG now. I'm looking forward to seeing how that competition goes but fool's bet to think it's already decided in may.
Oh he's definitely not set as the starting LG but many of us expect him to be the starter there. Will he finish the season as the starter is a different story.
Let's hope that Lemieux earns the LG spot and keeps it so that will keep Ezeudu on the bench where he provides good depth at both guard and tackle. Then he can be groomed as Glowinski's replacement in 2-3 years.
Lemiuex's pass blocking will determine whether or not he starts. That's clearly this staff's first priority. The best pass protector of Garcia, Lemiuex, Ezeudu and maybe Gates will be the starter at LG. Maybe Bredeson/Douglas have a say in that too.
if Lemiuex doesn't start I'd like to see him get some looks as a goaline FB. his ability to hit moving targets in the run game was definitely a factor at the end of 2020.
[quote] In comment 15713515 joeinpa said:
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It has been stated more than once that we fans are not going to recognize this offense. Really curious about that and how Jones blossoms. This staff has gone out of their way to be complimentary of him.
From afar, it just seems like there much positive energy in that building at the moment.
I think the staff has been pretty tepid with praise. Unless I have missed something it seems to focus on that he is a "hard worker", "teammates respect him" and "picks things up". Pretty similar to what has always been said about him.
Not "he is going to be really good", "he has everything you need in a QB", etc.
Tepid? Maybe. But haven’t they also spoken about his athletic ability, good arm, running ability, leadership etc.
You want to make the argument they aren t sincere, ok. But seems to me they have spoken too often of him to not be sincere in believing there is a chance can win with him
But that wasn’t my point. As a Jones fan I am excited to see him play in this system, ….but even such a vanilla take gets push back here. It s as if any positivity spoken about this particular player never goes well.
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@ZackBlatt
Daniel Jones on the #Giants declining his fifth year option: “That was out of my control, out of my hands … it is what it is.”
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Jones - focus is on winning games.. if season is good, things get taken care of for everyone ..it is all about that goal
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Jones - confident in himself, the team, the coaches and the system
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Jones - daboll and kafka bring a ton of new ideas from their systems.. new concepts and plays..been trying to pick up things from their experience
Zack Rosenblatt
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@ZackBlatt
Daniel Jones on Brian Daboll’s messaging to be aggressive and not be afraid of making mistakes: “Be aggressive, take your shots … and let the receivers know we’re going to give you opportunities to make plays.” #Giants
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
Daniel Jones said Daboll has the mindset to attack downfield. Receivers know they’re going to get chances to make plays.
I'm hoping Ezeudu wins the job, and McKethan is Glowinski's eventual replacement in a year or two.
I don't have high expectations for McKethan but his size is exciting. I don't think he will be a starting caliber player due to his pass protection issues. Ezeudu on the other hand is a very interesting prospect but it would be more comforting knowing that they have a good young OL on the bench as depth that can fill in admirably at both guard and tackle if the need arises.
Say what you want about the offensive linemen added but the Giants have not had this quality depth in a long time.
@giantswfan
#Giants #Jones - QB needs to be aggressive and take shots...there is a balance and the best guys find it
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Jones - understand the plays and the philosophy that there are specific times or coverages when you are to be aggressive
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
Jones said it’s not about being aimlessly aggressive. It’s about understanding the situation and knowing when and when not to take chances.
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Jones - excited about the draft picks....neal has looked great so far - can tell he wants to learn and the game is important to him
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Jones - there is a healthy balance between how he sees a play and how daboll sees it....there can be specific differences on certain plays
I think I go out of my way to show how important the team and coaching is to any QB and his performance. Jones has lacked both. Remains to be seen the upside. Reality is the staff is a unknown for now and until the OL does perform we can't count on that either.
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I'm hoping Ezeudu wins the job, and McKethan is Glowinski's eventual replacement in a year or two.
I don't have high expectations for McKethan but his size is exciting. I don't think he will be a starting caliber player due to his pass protection issues. Ezeudu on the other hand is a very interesting prospect but it would be more comforting knowing that they have a good young OL on the bench as depth that can fill in admirably at both guard and tackle if the need arises.
Say what you want about the offensive linemen added but the Giants have not had this quality depth in a long time.
I don't want the 67th pick of the draft sitting on the bench. He wasn't drafted to be an insurance policy. There are plenty of vets who can provide depth at OG, just in case Ezeudu is pressed into service at OT.
I think you are correct. In 2020 in BAL he seemed to mostly play DE, and in the games he played he was between 30-50% of the snaps (that was the #2 defense). Seems likely he will be a 50% snaps player here.
here were winks front 7 30% plus players in BAL in 2020:
Queen - 80%
Calais - 60% (*approx. in the 12 games he played)
Wolfe - 58%
Judon - 53%
Bowser - 51%
McPhee - 43%
LJ fort - 36% (*still a UFA)
Ellis - 33%
B Williams 33%
Ngakoue 33%
Equating this to NYG personnel you'd think Martinez, Williams, Lawrence are locks to be the equivalents of the top 3 spots.
Judon, Bowser, McPhee, Ngakoue should = Thibs, Ojulari, Ward, Smith/Roche/Coughlin
1 other meaningful thing I can't help but continue to mention, Chuck Clark was #1 in snaps for Wink. I strongly suspect he's going to be a post-june 1 trade pickup. If Wink can get his hands on his green dot from Baltimore, at a reasonable salary for 2 years, for a day 3 pick equivalent that's at best an equivalent of Dane Belton, doesn't that seem like a no brainer?
This is a good thing, not a bad thing.
I don't want the 67th pick of the draft sitting on the bench. He wasn't drafted to be an insurance policy. There are plenty of vets who can provide depth at OG, just in case Ezeudu is pressed into service at OT.
He was a 3rd round pick and the draft is always about the future. I want Ezeudu to be a starter one day but I would much rather have Lemieux earn the LG job. Why would anyone not want an abundance of good offensive linemen? I would never want to go into a season needing a rookie 3rd round pick to contribute immediately.
This is a good thing, not a bad thing.
I never said it was good or bad. I said it was what I hoped would happen, primarily because of the investment in Ezeudu.
This is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Exactly. If Ezeudu outplays Lemieux then he will start. The new staff has no ties to Lemieux so they won't hesitate to replace him if needed.
I think I go out of my way to show how important the team and coaching is to any QB and his performance. Jones has lacked both. Remains to be seen the upside. Reality is the staff is a unknown for now and until the OL does perform we can't count on that either.
I understand , and agree that a coach changing the mindset of an athlete, especially a quarterback can make a huge difference
The play calling on this team the past 2 years showed no confidence in Jones.
Make or break this season, Jones knows it, could change everything, especially with early success
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If the rookie beats out Lemieux, he will start. But it sounds like the coaches like Lemieux too.
This is a good thing, not a bad thing.
I never said it was good or bad. I said it was what I hoped would happen, primarily because of the investment in Ezeudu.
Well I hope that both Lemieux and Ezeudu play well and deserve to start. I would be disappointed if Max Garcia is the starting LG week one.
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I don't want the 67th pick of the draft sitting on the bench. He wasn't drafted to be an insurance policy. There are plenty of vets who can provide depth at OG, just in case Ezeudu is pressed into service at OT.
He was a 3rd round pick and the draft is always about the future. I want Ezeudu to be a starter one day but I would much rather have Lemieux earn the LG job. Why would anyone not want an abundance of good offensive linemen? I would never want to go into a season needing a rookie 3rd round pick to contribute immediately.
3rd round picks start all the time. If he's the best man for the job he ought to start. Shane Lemieux is hardly Quentin Nelson.
Nasty reputation
3rd round picks start all the time. If he's the best man for the job he ought to start. Shane Lemieux is hardly Quentin Nelson.
The majority of them do not start week one. I never said Lemieux is a great player let alone Quenton Nelson. All I am saying is that I hope that both Lemieux and Ezeudu deserve to start but Lemieux earns the starting job because it's his 3rd season. Ezeudu is also more versatile than Lemieux so he makes more sense as a backup as he can play every position but center. That's value that the Giants don't usually have. How great would it be if the Giants future starting OL is:
LT Andrew Thomas
LG Shane Lemieux
C Nick Gates
RG Josh Ezeudu
RT Evan Neal
Giants OTAs observations: Kadarius Toney and Kenny Golladay’s health, good (and bad) Daniel Jones throws, O-Line starters, mor - ( New Window )
Nasty reputation
Feliciano and Glowinski are both nasty guys also. These are the type of attitudes that I've wanted the Giants to bring in for the offensive line for years. They haven't had that since the days of Diehl, Seubert, and Snee.
They need more pieces at Edge and DL.
If he's healthy that's the next focus. It is going to take time for him to get his strength back to where it was. Even if he is fully cleared I think that the Giants will consider playing it safe with Gates by keeping him on the bench for the first few weeks of the season.
Giants OTAs observations: Kadarius Toney and Kenny Golladay’s health, good (and bad) Daniel Jones throws, O-Line starters, mor - ( New Window )
There is a lot of good stuff in this report.
They need more pieces at Edge and DL.
I expect them to use an early pick on a defensive lineman in next years draft. I bet that Schoen would have stayed at 36 and taken Logan Hall if he was still on the board. After this season only Leonard Williams and Dexter Lawrence are locks to be on the roster but Lawrence will be entering the final year of his contract.
Out of all the draft picks DJ Davidson was my least favorite one but now I hope that he can at least provide value as a rotational NT. They need to invest assets next offseason into this unit even if one of these UDFA's or FA's exceed expectations.
I think they made a change a few years ago to do smaller groups instead of all rookies at once. If that's the case I don't know why they don't cluster teams in groups when they dont have OTAs.
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3rd round picks start all the time. If he's the best man for the job he ought to start. Shane Lemieux is hardly Quentin Nelson.
The majority of them do not start week one. I never said Lemieux is a great player let alone Quenton Nelson. All I am saying is that I hope that both Lemieux and Ezeudu deserve to start but Lemieux earns the starting job because it's his 3rd season. Ezeudu is also more versatile than Lemieux so he makes more sense as a backup as he can play every position but center. That's value that the Giants don't usually have. How great would it be if the Giants future starting OL is:
LT Andrew Thomas
LG Shane Lemieux
C Nick Gates
RG Josh Ezeudu
RT Evan Neal
Why do you insist on putting Ezeudu at RG, a position he never played in college?
Anyway, Damien Lewis was the 69th pick of his draft and he started from day one in Seattle. Jonah Jackson was the 76th pick of his draft and did the same in Detroit. Tyre Phillips, pick #106 for Baltimore, won the starting job in camp, but then got hurt. It happens more often than you think, especially when the rookie goes to team where the competition is weak.
And why should Lemieux get the nod just because it's his third season? Are we back to scholarships now?
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But obviously has a long way to go just to try to get back into football shape. I wouldn't look for any contribution this year.
If he's healthy that's the next focus. It is going to take time for him to get his strength back to where it was. Even if he is fully cleared I think that the Giants will consider playing it safe with Gates by keeping him on the bench for the first few weeks of the season.
I think the time frame is a lot further out. Did you watch the video clip of him? He's carrying a lot of bad weight, and has lost most of his muscle tone. I would expect something more like a minimum of 4 to 6 months just to get back in shape. The rehab on his injury must limit what he's able to do to work out, and even after he gets back in shape, there are the questions of whether the leg can stand up to football, and if he is still able to perform at a high enough level to play in the NFL.
I would expect a red shirt year to see if he can come back to the team.
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Giants will have a pass rush, largely due to Thibs talent and the trickle down effect to the others. Leo's terrific at 3-4 DE, Dexter has his moments. I'm not a huge Ojulari fan (he has to show me he's more than a Patriots contain DE).
They need more pieces at Edge and DL.
I expect them to use an early pick on a defensive lineman in next years draft. I bet that Schoen would have stayed at 36 and taken Logan Hall if he was still on the board. After this season only Leonard Williams and Dexter Lawrence are locks to be on the roster but Lawrence will be entering the final year of his contract.
Out of all the draft picks DJ Davidson was my least favorite one but now I hope that he can at least provide value as a rotational NT. They need to invest assets next offseason into this unit even if one of these UDFA's or FA's exceed expectations.
#36 on Hall, I'd wager you are correct. That's whom I was watching until he was picked.
They need DL, and interested to see what their DL choices look like moving forward. Because the last regime didn't seem to have a plan.
As he should, and I hope it's Ezeudu.
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the best player will start at left guard.
As he should, and I hope it's Ezeudu.
I think i'd actually consider him the favorite because his strength seems to be pass pro. all of the new regime's actions seem geared towards that as the priority. "width in the pocket".
i liked lemiuex, saw flashes from bredeson, and don't discount that garcia has started a lot of games but none of them seem known for pass pro.
ezeudu was only credited with 2 sacks in his whole college career and they came this past year when he spent almost 300 snaps at LT (don't know if they came at guard or tackle).
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@DDuggan21
Some notes from today's OTA:
• Ton of empty sets and pre-snap motion in this offense. A healthy Saquon is going to catch a ton of passes. Jones was getting the ball out quick, lot of RPOs.
• Saquon was lined up in the slot on one play with Matt Breida in the backfield and ran a deep post. Julian Love intercepted Daniel Jones on that play, don't believe Saquon was the target.
• Tyrod Taylor had the throw the day, a bomb to Robert Foster over UDFA CB Zyon Gilbert
Depth chart is pretty messy at this point with so many guys limited/sidelined, but here goes:
1 OL: LT Cunningham, LG Lemieux, C Feliciano, RG Glowinski, RT Neal
2 OL: LT Hamilton, LG Ezeudu, C Bredeson/Garcia (alternated), McKethan, RT Gono. McKethan also got work at #3 RT.
1D: DL Williams, DL Ju. Ellis, OLB Thibodeaux, OLB Ojulari, ILB Martinez, ILB Crowder, CB Jackson, CB Robinson, Slot CB Holmes, S McKinney, S Love.
2D: DL Moa, DL Davidson, OLB Ward, OLB Smith, ILB Brown, ILB Coughlin, CB Gilbert, CB Evans, Slot CB Flott, S Williams, S Belton.
3D: DL Hinton, DL Holmes, OLB Ximines, OLB Lalos, ILB Brunson, ILB Hilliard, CB Jacquet, CB Canady, Slot CB Dorsey, S Corker, S Black.
Recorded D lineups during install period, so guys in red jerseys like Martinez and Brown sat out the live team periods.
They need more pieces at Edge and DL.
Jon, Thibs might be the one... Kill me. I do this every single year.
I think i'd actually consider him the favorite because his strength seems to be pass pro. all of the new regime's actions seem geared towards that as the priority. "width in the pocket".
This is a good point that I didn't consider. It will come down to pass protection. If Lemieux doesn't show noticeable improvement in pass protection then Ezeudu will likely be the starting LG week one. It will be very interesting to see how they line up in training camp. It will be very telling if Ezeudu continues see time at tackle.