Gettleman's Swan Song

would be a massive failure. that being said, it was one year and we have to see how it plays out for a at least a couple seasons to see what the guys we have become.

comparison is actually Thibodeaux vs. Parsons. If the Giants don't do the deal last year and don't have the #7 pick, my guess is that they would have taken Neal at #5. Obviously impossible to know for sure, but the OL was the bigger need and the lucky break was that the Giants could take Thib at #5 and still had the #2 or 3 tackle.

So it's Toney + Thibodeaux vs. Parsons essentially. Early to tell, but it will be interesting to watch over time.

the biggest being that he sat out the Covid year.
Remember: This was a 2021 draft, and Parsons didn't play that year. Everybody knew he had greatness, and he was always projected to go high, but you figure that there was plenty of risk in taking anybody who sat out in 2020- from Penei Sewell on down.

Toney, Robinson, Thibodeaux and Bellinger for...

* D Smith--no
* Slater--prob not
* Parsons--probably but you could get burned if Thib turns out to be really good

Have drafted Aziz either....

I would keep package of picks

We would not have needed to draft Neal this year so we could have had Thibodeaux or Wilson instead.

So it is Slater+Thibs/Wilson or Toney+Robinson+Neal+Bellinger.

But at this point I would stay with what we got. It was a good deal, and I think we're better off in the long run.

No one can say for sure if Parsons is Khalil Mack/Von Miller, however, his rookie campaign makes that a possibility. Lets assume he is...there are a lot of teams that passed up an easy opportunity for that guy, and the Cowboys didn't screw it up.

Don't overlook the "cowboy" effect on player valuations. Anyone wearing that uniform is greeted with immense hype. Also, Barkley was ROY, remember?

Not sold on D.Smith, he was a risk at the time, and still has much to prove in the NFL.

Final thought: I'm of the opinion that team context has a TON to do with how well a player performs. Good/bad team, good/bad coaches...etc. Look at Golden boy in JAX.

wasn't he stoned by the Giants and Herndandez? Pfft.

I still wanted to draft him to be a bigger, faster Jessie Armstead.

he had a pretty good haul in his last draft



And he left a hell of a nice gift for his successor with all those draft picks - especially two in the top 10. That will be his legacy if all the other shit is forgotten.

This year's draft would not have been possible had he not made that trade with Chicago. Brilliant move that he rarely gets credit for.

started earlier...

In comment 15713447 Mike in NY said:

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We would not have needed to draft Neal this year so we could have had Thibodeaux or Wilson instead. So it is Slater+Thibs/Wilson or Toney+Robinson+Neal+Bellinger.

If they took Slater they might not have been picking 5th, so you wouldn't have gotten Thibs and might not have gotten Wilson (same if you took Parsons). I wanted Parsons, but I will without a doubt take Thibs, Neal, Toney, Robinson and Bellinger over Parsons and who knows who (can't know where they would pick). Thibs might equal Parsons 1 to 1. Then you have four more guys who likely will have an impact versus whomever they would have taken in the first this year (Cross?)

I’ve seen this brought up many times. Haven’t seen bringing the scenario where they make trade with the Bears but draft somebody other than Toney with the 20th pick. Based on what we’ve seen of Toney, probably could have drafted a few guys who would have made the team better, Darrisaw for one would have made the OL better.

In comment 15713480 mavric said:

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he had a pretty good haul in his last draft And he left a hell of a nice gift for his successor with all those draft picks - especially two in the top 10. That will be his legacy if all the other shit is forgotten. This year's draft would not have been possible had he not made that trade with Chicago. Brilliant move that he rarely gets credit for.

A good haul? You dont think its too early to say that?

In comment 15713480 mavric said:

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he had a pretty good haul in his last draft And he left a hell of a nice gift for his successor with all those draft picks - especially two in the top 10. That will be his legacy if all the other shit is forgotten. This year's draft would not have been possible had he not made that trade with Chicago. Brilliant move that he rarely gets credit for.

We had those high picks because of the constant losing which was a result of his poor roster decisions. So yes, you could say Gettleman's legacy is that he left us lots of high draft picks.

I'm pretty sure no GM wants that to be his legacy.

In comment 15713434 BLUATHRT said:

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would be a massive failure. that being said, it was one year and we have to see how it plays out for a at least a couple seasons to see what the guys we have become.

If Gettleman thought there would only be one more year of football, he certainly wouldn't have made a trade that included future picks, so pointing out that not taking Parsons was a "massive failure" is not only irrelevant, it's dishonest. What's the point of mentioning a hypothetical argument based on no more football after 2021 when the trade was made knowing there would in fact be a 2022 draft and a 2022 season. You should have kept your comment to your point about it being too soon to judge the trade, but I guess then you would merely be pointing out the obvious. So basically what you've done is have an argument with yourself in which one side of you makes an irrelevant and dishonest point, thus forcing the other side of you to point out the obvious to "him" (or her).
p.s.--I'm not trying to be a dick, but to use such dramatic language as "massive failure" when you already know it's an irrelevant point called for a response.

In comment 15713465 Spiciest Memelord said:

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wasn't he stoned by the Giants and Herndandez? Pfft. I still wanted to draft him to be a bigger, faster Jessie Armstead.

I felt he would play edge in the NFL. His win rate when asked to do it in college was the best in college his last year. You combine that with his measurablea and play in both college and the NFL, as he becomes more man, he is going to get better. If he keeps his nose reasonably clean, greatness.

In comment 15713480 mavric said:

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he had a pretty good haul in his last draft And he left a hell of a nice gift for his successor with all those draft picks - especially two in the top 10. That will be his legacy if all the other shit is forgotten. This year's draft would not have been possible had he not made that trade with Chicago. Brilliant move that he rarely gets credit for.

Was thinking of posting this sentiment the other day but didn’t want to deal with the vitriol his name might elicit

That DG wanted to draft Parsons...How does that fit with our narrative? I think Judge sided with Mara politically in an attempt to stay should DG get canned. I think it would have worked had BBI not gone full clownshow humiliation mode causing Judge to drop his pants to the media.

before the Giants even made the additional draft picks they received lol.

As good as Parsons was and as much of a non-factor as Toney was, it was just one season.

The potential is still there for this to be a landslide victory in the Giants favor. If Toney and Neal live up to their potential, they alone are > Parsons. Robinson and Bellinger are extra swings of the bat and Robinson especially will have every opportunity to showcase what he can do this season.

The majority of this board wanted Slater or Parsons. Now if they were targeting Slater then the trade can still be a win if Evan Neal becomes equal or better to Slater. If he's just equal then whatever they get from Toney, Aaron Robinson, and Daniel Bellinger.

If Parsons consistently plays like he did last season without any off the field incidents then the Giants can still get a win if Neal becomes an all-pro RT, and if Toney becomes a dangerous weapon or Bellinger and Aaron Robinson become good starting players.

I know it's unfair to grade now but I already consider it a win if they would have taken Slater because I expect Neal to be close to him talent wise if not better. I also expect Aaron Robinson to win the starting CB spot opposite Jackson and Bellinger to become the starting TE for the next 6+ years.

Should've been Oweh or Tryon.

In comment 15713546 Klaatu said:

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Should've been Oweh or Tryon.

Liked Oweh a lot.

Toney had the one big game against Dallas, but did little in his other games. Plus, he was frequently injured and is still carrying a lot of questions about his work ethic and desire.

Ojulari showed promise and produced sacks, but he was pretty inconsistent. Did not generate consistent pressure and was a non-factor more than you'd like to see. There's much to like but he needs to make strides.

Robinson looked OK, but missed half the season with an injury.

Elerson Smith barely played.

Brightwell was basically a specials-only player.

Williams missed most of the season. He was already a bit slow for a corner and now is coming back from an ACL tear.


So yeah, how is that a haul??

DG did a mediocre/sub-par job of drafting. I know objectivity isn't a big thing around here. We became a little too accustomed to consistently drafting 2-3 starters/significant contributors every year leading up to the two SBs, that's not normal throughout the league.

In comment 15713480 mavric said:

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he had a pretty good haul in his last draft And he left a hell of a nice gift for his successor with all those draft picks - especially two in the top 10. That will be his legacy if all the other shit is forgotten. This year's draft would not have been possible had he not made that trade with Chicago. Brilliant move that he rarely gets credit for.

That's a good haul?

In comment 15713578 Spiciest Memelord said:

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DG did a mediocre/sub-par job of drafting. I know objectivity isn't a big thing around here. We became a little too accustomed to consistently drafting 2-3 starters/significant contributors every year leading up to the two SBs, that's not normal throughout the league.

2004-2010 was just an incredible period of roster building for the giants under accorsi and reese.

all started in 2004 w eli, snee, and gibril wilson (also ohara and fred robbins in FA that year). even though they traded an assload of picks for eli, in 2005 they drafted webster, tuck and jacobs at 2, 3, and 4. not having many picks to sign also enabled them to sign burress, mckenzie, and pierce in FA that year.

2006 draft was not as good as 04-05 but still netted cofield and whimper. then in 2007 reese's first draft as GM he boomed it out of the park with ross, smith, alford, deossie and boss.

kept it going in 2008 with phillips, thomas, and manningham. 2009-2010 fell off a bit but reese was still hitting early with nicks, JPP, linval, beatty, etc.

we can only hope Schoen's front office has that kind of six-run the giants had in 04-10 in trying to rebuild from the downward spiral that started with the 2011 draft.

that has a logical trail to follow. Many of his other decisions were just blatantly absurd. It's not often we say this, but kudo's to the guy.

They see two categories that the picks fall into: really good players, and guys who it is too early to say, but could become great players.

Conversely, our division rivals' picks fall into these two buckets: players that flashed early but will regress dramatically once the league figures them out, and guys who were later round picks and probably suck.

When you view it through that lens, you can understand the folks that defend DG and are expecting to see players become something in year 4 and 5 that they have never been.

In comment 15713650 Mike from Ohio said:

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They see two categories that the picks fall into: really good players, and guys who it is too early to say, but could become great players. Conversely, our division rivals' picks fall into these two buckets: players that flashed early but will regress dramatically once the league figures them out, and guys who were later round picks and probably suck. When you view it through that lens, you can understand the folks that defend DG and are expecting to see players become something in year 4 and 5 that they have never been.

of the Gettleman error is felt. If that's the case the 2021 draft played out just fine for the Giants. I think a lot of people are underestimating the how seismic the changes that resulted from Gettleman turning the Giants into a clown show are.

This is not meant to bash the Mara family it's just the facts. The backlash from the fumble is why George Young was hired. He changed everything about the way the Giants did business and his impact on the Giants lead directly to all four Super Bowl wins. Once Ernie retired that broke the chain and the Mara sons wound up right where their father did when he tried picking the coaches and the players by himself.

It's going to take more than one year for Joe Schoen to get the Giants back to contention for the Super Bowl. He has to modernize the way the Giants run their football business just like George Young had to 43 years ago. Look at the turnover that's already taken place in the front office.

If it took passing on Parsons and Slater for the Giants to bottom out so deeply that the Tisch family finally stepped in and forced the Mara's to go outside of their Giants family circle it was worth it IMO. If the Mara's made the choice on their own even better but circumstantial evidence seems to point to Steve Tisch as being the catalyst.

A big assist to Eric and his daughter for the infamous viral clown picture. IMO the 2021 equivalent of the plane over Giants Stadium in 1978 that said enough is enough. Now we wait to see how many correct choices Joe Schoen makes and if he has a little luck on his side too.

In comment 15713643 BamaBlue said:

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that has a logical trail to follow. Many of his other decisions were just blatantly absurd. It's not often we say this, but kudo's to the guy.

Passing on Parsons for character concerns they drafting Toney ignoring maybe worse character concerns was not logical to me.

In comment 15713660 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15713650 Mike from Ohio said: Quote: They see two categories that the picks fall into: really good players, and guys who it is too early to say, but could become great players. Conversely, our division rivals' picks fall into these two buckets: players that flashed early but will regress dramatically once the league figures them out, and guys who were later round picks and probably suck. When you view it through that lens, you can understand the folks that defend DG and are expecting to see players become something in year 4 and 5 that they have never been.

Quick Question:

That space in your head...that you rented to Daniel Jones...

How much do you charge him?

In comment 15713675 arniefez said:

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of the Gettleman error is felt. If that's the case the 2021 draft played out just fine for the Giants. I think a lot of people are underestimating the how seismic the changes that resulted from Gettleman turning the Giants into a clown show are. This is not meant to bash the Mara family it's just the facts. The backlash from the fumble is why George Young was hired. He changed everything about the way the Giants did business and his impact on the Giants lead directly to all four Super Bowl wins. Once Ernie retired that broke the chain and the Mara sons wound up right where their father did when he tried picking the coaches and the players by himself. It's going to take more than one year for Joe Schoen to get the Giants back to contention for the Super Bowl. He has to modernize the way the Giants run their football business just like George Young had to 43 years ago. Look at the turnover that's already taken place in the front office. If it took passing on Parsons and Slater for the Giants to bottom out so deeply that the Tisch family finally stepped in and forced the Mara's to go outside of their Giants family circle it was worth it IMO. If the Mara's made the choice on their own even better but circumstantial evidence seems to point to Steve Tisch as being the catalyst. A big assist to Eric and his daughter for the infamous viral clown picture. IMO the 2021 equivalent of the plane over Giants Stadium in 1978 that said enough is enough. Now we wait to see how many correct choices Joe Schoen makes and if he has a little luck on his side too.

You know for a fact this is what went down?

In comment 15713729 knowledgetimmons said:

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Quick Question: That space in your head...that you rented to Daniel Jones... How much do you charge him?

No money. Just 3.5 hours every weekend during the fall. I definitely care. Why don't you?

I'm not sure what you're asking?

In comment 15713675 arniefez said:

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of the Gettleman error is felt. If that's the case the 2021 draft played out just fine for the Giants. I think a lot of people are underestimating the how seismic the changes that resulted from Gettleman turning the Giants into a clown show are. This is not meant to bash the Mara family it's just the facts. The backlash from the fumble is why George Young was hired. He changed everything about the way the Giants did business and his impact on the Giants lead directly to all four Super Bowl wins. Once Ernie retired that broke the chain and the Mara sons wound up right where their father did when he tried picking the coaches and the players by himself. It's going to take more than one year for Joe Schoen to get the Giants back to contention for the Super Bowl. He has to modernize the way the Giants run their football business just like George Young had to 43 years ago. Look at the turnover that's already taken place in the front office. If it took passing on Parsons and Slater for the Giants to bottom out so deeply that the Tisch family finally stepped in and forced the Mara's to go outside of their Giants family circle it was worth it IMO. If the Mara's made the choice on their own even better but circumstantial evidence seems to point to Steve Tisch as being the catalyst. A big assist to Eric and his daughter for the infamous viral clown picture. IMO the 2021 equivalent of the plane over Giants Stadium in 1978 that said enough is enough. Now we wait to see how many correct choices Joe Schoen makes and if he has a little luck on his side too.

This! +++INFINITY+++

In comment 15713771 arniefez said:

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I'm not sure what you're asking?

He's a mongo. Don't bother with him.

In comment 15713480 mavric said:

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he had a pretty good haul in his last draft And he left a hell of a nice gift for his successor with all those draft picks - especially two in the top 10. That will be his legacy if all the other shit is forgotten. This year's draft would not have been possible had he not made that trade with Chicago. Brilliant move that he rarely gets credit for.

LMAO!!! What a joke!

Neal is the only player on that list of four who's a sure-fire starter, and Slater is already All-Pro.

You can also consider whether they would have still been picking #5 this year if they had taken Parsons or Slater. And you can wonder which of the games that might have gone differently would have impacted the records of other teams in the draft and how might that have impacted the records of those other teams. How might a different 2021 draft scenario have impacted 2022 free agency, and how might a different 2022 free agency process have changed some teams' priorities for the 2022 draft? Who would the Cowboys have drafted if we took Parsons? How much ripple effect would that have on every subsequent pick in the 2021 draft? Same for Slater.

We didn't trade Parsons or Slater for Toney + Robinson + Thibs/Neal + Bellinger. You cannot change one particular element of a scenario and then expect every other element to remain the same. We traded the 11th pick for the picks we received in return. There really is no other way to look at it.

pancake block that no goodnick Parsons!

“Gettleman ‘retiring’ “ , for $2,000, Alex.

Didn’t like the Toney pick. The Giants did what they always do last off-season - they figured the defense was “set” and put all resources into the offense. They did sign Jackson, but letting Tomlinson walk proved to be very costly.

After the trade down, I would have rather seen them go defense. For the way they played, would have made more sense.

As Al Davis always said, “strengthen a strength” why weaken an area you are strong at to improve an area you aren’t good at? Just creates mediocrity at best. Fucking build an identity. The Giants were so worried about Jones last off-season, but would have loved to see them go all in on the defense after 2020. That would have been bold.

"why weaken an area you are strong at to improve an area you aren’t good at?"

There was no plan. Their evaluation of their own players was garbage, and they did things under the delusion of being a team ready to take a step forward.

No disrespect to anyone here, but the actions of the front office under gettleman last offseason were barely a shred different than anyone here would have thought was the best move. Spend a bunch of money for free agents to fill needs. Just look at the names on the free agent list and pick the names you recognize.

Except even BBI mostly realized the OL was a paper thin unproven unit with no room for error and identified it as a concern.

He drafted Barkley and Hernandez and should have drafted Josh Allen and Nick Chubb. So now the Giants are hoping that Jones turns into something worthwhile, else we start all over again looking for a franchise quarterback.