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Thursday Giants OTA #3 Round-Up (Practice Notes)

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/19/2022 4:16 pm
FYI...


May 19, 2022 New York Giants OTA Practice Report - ( New Window )
Ximenez buried  
WeekendLife56 : 5/19/2022 4:50 pm : link
On the depth chart is what jumps off the page in that article. Bredeson at backup center is interesting.

I really have a feeling thibs is the real deal and we will be hearing about his flashes all camp

Can't wait to see Mckinney and the defense in live action
players wearing red jerseys bc of injury issues included WR Golladay  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 5/19/2022 4:50 pm : link
LOL!! So many of us here knew the guy was injury prone.
RE: players wearing red jerseys bc of injury issues included WR Golladay  
Angel Eyes : 5/19/2022 4:58 pm : link
In comment 15713779 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:
Quote:
LOL!! So many of us here knew the guy was injury prone.

Unfortunately we don't have any good backups should Golladay go down (which is quite likely).
Really appreciate  
Blue77 : 5/19/2022 5:54 pm : link
the article going in-depth with all the units all the way to the third-string.
Couple of things that stood out to me  
Breeze_94 : 5/19/2022 5:58 pm : link
UDFA's working as second team corners over the recently signed vets

Jarren Williams at FS- thought he played decent when thrown into action last year at CB, though they played alot of zone when he was in there

Bellinger first team reps (and another nice catch)

Garcia buried on IOL depth chart- this is a guy who would've started here last year so shows how the IOL has come along nicely.
Here is a short video from the OTA  
RobCrossRiver56 : 5/19/2022 6:44 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Here is a short video from the OTA  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/19/2022 7:11 pm : link
In comment 15713879 RobCrossRiver56 said:
Quote:
. Link - ( New Window )


Insane one-handed grabs by Shepard from the jugs machine.
Thomas in a red shirt  
widmerseyebrow : 5/19/2022 7:13 pm : link
Hope the wheel is going to be OK this season.
Thanks  
Toth029 : 5/19/2022 7:33 pm : link
For the info.

Depth chart stuff I shouldn't think too much about, however, no appearance of Roche at OLB or the kids at ILB, Beavers and McFadden. Hilliard and Brunson were 3rd team inside guys. Probably much ado, still intriguing.
Ah  
Toth029 : 5/19/2022 7:36 pm : link
So Roche has a red jersey. That's it. I wonder what that's about.

Looking at the OLB, I gotta figure that's what Wink will want a lot of because he used 4 OLB packages last year. Four blitzing outside linebackers. The man is aggressive! I also feel like Coughlin might be a different type in this scheme than he was under Graham.
RE: Ximenez buried  
Jay on the Island : 5/19/2022 7:40 pm : link
In comment 15713778 WeekendLife56 said:
Quote:
On the depth chart is what jumps off the page in that article. Bredeson at backup center is interesting.

I really have a feeling thibs is the real deal and we will be hearing about his flashes all camp

Can't wait to see Mckinney and the defense in live action

It’s even worse for Ximines when you factor in that Roche was out and Ximines was still relegated to the 3rd team.
RE: RE: Here is a short video from the OTA  
Eric on Li : 5/19/2022 7:53 pm : link
In comment 15713896 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15713879 RobCrossRiver56 said:


Quote:


. Link - ( New Window )



Insane one-handed grabs by Shepard from the jugs machine.


he was moving around great too. i don't know when a torn achillies became a 5-6 month injury instead of 12 but good for him. he's due for a little positive injury luck.
Daboll has to be the first Giants HC..  
Sean : 5/19/2022 9:24 pm : link
To consistently wear black Giants gear.
of interest to me, McFadden and Beavers are not in the first three  
Del Shofner : 5/19/2022 9:51 pm : link
strings at ILB (although that is how Eric has them on the depth chart - 4th string). Apparently Beavers played though since he's briefly mentioned. I'm wondering if there is also a special teams section that the media doesn't really cover.
surprised there is nothing  
Rory : 5/19/2022 10:13 pm : link
on Osi's guy Roy Mbaeteka.

Also loved all the mis-speculation Giants fans had on Toney/Golladay "not being there".

Now we come to find out they are rehabbing injuries.

So next time why dont you just chill
RE: RE: Here is a short video from the OTA  
jhibb : 5/19/2022 10:54 pm : link
In comment 15713896 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15713879 RobCrossRiver56 said:

Quote:

. Link - ( New Window )


Insane one-handed grabs by Shepard from the jugs machine.


I know it's a bit silly on my part, but that stuff just annoys me to watch... ever since 2016. There always seemed to be so much emphasis on one-handed catches with OBJ and then he had those drops in the playoff game with the ball hitting both hands.
So we are playing  
Dankbeerman : 5/20/2022 7:30 am : link
Nickel base or is that just what we practiced today? Was interested to see how the DL was positioned. but if only using 2 at a time it doesnt much matter
RE: So we are playing  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/20/2022 7:54 am : link
In comment 15714054 Dankbeerman said:
Quote:
Nickel base or is that just what we practiced today? Was interested to see how the DL was positioned. but if only using 2 at a time it doesnt much matter


Great question...media in attendance didn't really elaborate. Sounds like we were in a 2-4-5 defense most of THIS practice.
Elerson Smith running with the 2nd Team.  
Klaatu : 5/20/2022 8:23 am : link
If I remember correctly, Schoen mentioned him by name a few weeks back. He could be a guy to keep an eye on this Summer.
RE: surprised there is nothing  
Jimmy Googs : 5/20/2022 8:23 am : link
In comment 15713997 Rory said:
Quote:
on Osi's guy Roy Mbaeteka.

Also loved all the mis-speculation Giants fans had on Toney/Golladay "not being there".

Now we come to find out they are rehabbing injuries.

So next time why dont you just chill


They both showed up because they were told they could wear red jerseys and it would be like they weren't even there...
Breeze_94, re Williams at FS.  
Klaatu : 5/20/2022 8:29 am : link
It's just a guess on my part, but it could be that the coaches want to take a look at some of the new additions at CB while they still keep Williams active. They also might feel that Williams could be another Love, versatile enough to fill in anywhere in the defensive backfield.
RE: surprised there is nothing  
rich in DC : 5/20/2022 9:01 am : link
In comment 15713997 Rory said:
Quote:
on Osi's guy Roy Mbaeteka.

Also loved all the mis-speculation Giants fans had on Toney/Golladay "not being there".

Now we come to find out they are rehabbing injuries.

So next time why dont you just chill


I posted almost the same sentiments on the earlier thread and got told I wasn’t following the story. There were 200+ pictures and they weren’t there…
rich in DC  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/20/2022 9:09 am : link
You weren't following the story. Now you're just being a dick.

People were reacting to the fact that Golladay ($72 million contract) and Toney (controversial 1st-round draft pick), both of whom skipped OTAs last year and didn't score a single TE, were not mentioned at all in team OTA practice reviews and the 200 or so photos that were posted.

Now we know the reason why.

But there was cause for concern.

For whatever reason, you have an issue with anyone who says they should be there (despite the fact that yesterday, Daboll AGAIN said it was very important that they be there).
RE: rich in DC  
rich in DC : 5/20/2022 9:23 am : link
In comment 15714109 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
You weren't following the story. Now you're just being a dick.

People were reacting to the fact that Golladay ($72 million contract) and Toney (controversial 1st-round draft pick), both of whom skipped OTAs last year and didn't score a single TE, were not mentioned at all in team OTA practice reviews and the 200 or so photos that were posted.

Now we know the reason why.

But there was cause for concern.

For whatever reason, you have an issue with anyone who says they should be there (despite the fact that yesterday, Daboll AGAIN said it was very important that they be there).


No, my post was PRECISELY about people jumping to conclusions about who was/wasn’t there and making assumptions about the players- and proceeding to dump on them.

In the end, those people have been demonstrated to have made unwarranted leaps to reach a conclusion they wanted to harp about. I don’t see many NEA culpable here.

Now, I’m not defending Golloway or Toney. In fact, I think Golloway will play himself off the team this season. Toney- I’m hopeful with the talent leve, but let’s see him on the field first.

With that said, we see a LOT of group think going on that is based on little to nothing. THAT’S what bothers me.
Damn autocorrect  
rich in DC : 5/20/2022 9:23 am : link
That’s mea culpa
Rich in DC  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/20/2022 9:33 am : link
I understand where you are coming from, but there is a REASON why this is a sensitive issue for Giants fans.

The return on these two huge investments has been borderline catastrophic. And there were indications they were repeating the same patterns they did last year.

Daboll is now on record twice as saying it is very important to be there for the classroom work alone. He said it again yesterday.

Unless the Giants as an organization enjoy trolling their fans and getting them pissed off, all they needed to do was mention these guys in OTA reports #1 and #2 or show them in one photo.
rich in DC.  
Klaatu : 5/20/2022 9:52 am : link
A conclusion is only unwarranted if there's no evidence to suggest it, and that wasn't the case with Golladay or Toney. It may have been incorrect, but it was certainly within the realm of possibility, based on their history, and based on the lack of any evidence to the contrary. One picture would have put all of the speculation to rest.

As I said in another post, it just seemed odd that the Giants chose to keep them in the shadows, so to speak. All that did was add fuel to a fire that's been smoldering since last year, when both WR's - one a high-priced free agent, the other a 1st Round draft pick - failed to justify either investment.

You want a mea culpa? Fine. I drew the wrong conclusion. My bad.
RE: Rich in DC  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/20/2022 10:01 am : link
In comment 15714130 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:

Unless the Giants as an organization enjoy trolling their fans and getting them pissed off, all they needed to do was mention these guys in OTA reports #1 and #2 or show them in one photo.


While I don't disagree, the average fan is not reading head coach transcripts. Fans that post in BBI are deep in the weeds and know what Daboll says. Most fans dont.

We could also simply not care so much about this. We are self-appointing ourselves to police the situation. Fans are legitimately asking the beat writers to take and report attendance. It's proactively looking for things to complain about.
Any news on  
Doubledeuce22 : 5/20/2022 10:43 am : link
Rodarius Williams?
RE: Any news on  
Klaatu : 5/20/2022 10:48 am : link
In comment 15714205 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
Rodarius Williams?


Just that he's wearing a red injury jersey.
Ten Ton Hammer  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/20/2022 10:49 am : link
We're not talking about the back-up RB here. Or the left guard.

We're talking about THE two guys in the receiving corps who we need to succeed in order to be competitive, and with respect to Toney, not just in 2022 but beyond.

If Toney didn't have such a checkered brief history, I would agree with you. But his rookie campaign was a farce from the moment the team drafted him (not showing up, coaches telling us how far behind he was, COVID twice, constantly getting hurt with a myriad of injuries ranging from "finger" to "oblique").

New staff, new playbook, new chance... and he decides to skip the first two weeks of OTAs until - by design or by chance - the word gets out he is on the trading block. Then he immediately shows up the next day. (Good, he got the message).

So again, the "policing" you are talking about is not really "policing." It is fans saying, "Oh crap, here we go again!"

And just to follow up...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/20/2022 10:52 am : link
as I posted yesterday, I don't really care if Toney or Golladay are in a red jersey right now. It's more important that they are there for the classroom work.

Toney wasn't going to get the playbook until he showed up.

So the situation with Toney and Golladay is good right now. Both are there and both seem engaged. The players have said it is fun to show up for work under Daboll.
I wonder...  
Dnew15 : 5/20/2022 11:24 am : link
if this team stays healthy, is productive, and makes the playoffs - what BBI will make of that.
RE: I wonder...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/20/2022 11:36 am : link
In comment 15714257 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
if this team stays healthy, is productive, and makes the playoffs - what BBI will make of that.


95 percent of us will be thrilled.

But the odds are much higher that fans will overrate our chances and then cry bloody murder when we are out of the playoff hunt.
RE: Ten Ton Hammer  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/20/2022 11:39 am : link
In comment 15714214 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
We're not talking about the back-up RB here. Or the left guard.

We're talking about THE two guys in the receiving corps who we need to succeed in order to be competitive, and with respect to Toney, not just in 2022 but beyond.

If Toney didn't have such a checkered brief history, I would agree with you. But his rookie campaign was a farce from the moment the team drafted him (not showing up, coaches telling us how far behind he was, COVID twice, constantly getting hurt with a myriad of injuries ranging from "finger" to "oblique").

New staff, new playbook, new chance... and he decides to skip the first two weeks of OTAs until - by design or by chance - the word gets out he is on the trading block. Then he immediately shows up the next day. (Good, he got the message).

So again, the "policing" you are talking about is not really "policing." It is fans saying, "Oh crap, here we go again!"




This phenomenon happens every year. It's not new. Toney and Golladay are just the latest ones to face it. I've seen this before because I've been in the threads replying before.

The writers use attendance as cheap content for clicks. That'll never change. What can change is fans not gobbling it up just to get wound up and complain online. What you're saying is true: Those players need to have more impact on the games.

The people in control of that situation are Shoen, Daboll, and the players. Those are the ones that know who is working, and who is not, and they are the ones who have to hold each other accountable.

It's obvious we don't know what actually goes on if we're parsing thru OTA practice photos to specifically look for players that have a target on their back only to find later that yes, everything has been fine. The team just didn't prioritize "proving" something to the fans. It's sad if they feel like they have to. "BBI is really grumbling about this, let's make sure we include a photo of Golladay on the field or reviewing film".
RE: RE: I wonder...  
jvm52106 : 5/20/2022 11:42 am : link
In comment 15714276 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15714257 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


if this team stays healthy, is productive, and makes the playoffs - what BBI will make of that.



95 percent of us will be thrilled.

But the odds are much higher that fans will overrate our chances and then cry bloody murder when we are out of the playoff hunt.


I am sticking to we go 8-9. I think this team is better than people are giving credit for. Last year this team won 4 games (should have won 2 other games without bonehead plays that cost us the game) and honestly would have been in games late if we hadn't lost our QB.

I am not saying this was a "good" team last year just that we should have ended up with more than 6 wins last year with a truly shitty Oline, no weapons in most games and a pretty pathetic Coaching staff.

Our Oline (still being put together) is leaps ahead of last year based on paper only to start. I mean two top 10 picks at OT, a VET center, a Vet Guard and then either a 3 year VET G coming back from injury or a rookie draft pick at the other G spot. That Oline alone is a HUGE improvement over the lines of the last two years.

I am really getting 1984 vibes from this team!
Absent  
AcidTest : 5/20/2022 11:52 am : link
injuries, I don't see Ximines making the 53. Coughlin, Brown, Crowder, Brunsen, and maybe even Roche could also be cut.
RE: Thomas in a red shirt  
Payasdaddy : 5/20/2022 12:08 pm : link
In comment 15713898 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
Hope the wheel is going to be OK this season.


Me too. But no reason to push him in May. Probably eases in during training camp too. Just build him up for opening day.
RE: Absent  
Jay on the Island : 5/20/2022 12:18 pm : link
In comment 15714301 AcidTest said:
Quote:
injuries, I don't see Ximines making the 53. Coughlin, Brown, Crowder, Brunsen, and maybe even Roche could also be cut.

His only chance of making it is if there are multiple injuries at OLB like you said. Personally I would like to see them release him now as I've seen enough from him to know that he will never be even an average backup OLB. The Giants would save approximately $1 million in cap space by cutting him also. If they really plan on using Ward as a OLB in some packages then Ximines is behind Thibodeaux, Ojulari, Roche, Smith, and Ward.
RE: RE: Thomas in a red shirt  
Jay on the Island : 5/20/2022 12:19 pm : link
In comment 15714333 Payasdaddy said:
Quote:
In comment 15713898 widmerseyebrow said:


Quote:


Hope the wheel is going to be OK this season.



Me too. But no reason to push him in May. Probably eases in during training camp too. Just build him up for opening day.

I agree, wrap Andrew Thomas in bubble wrap training camp.
RE: And just to follow up...  
Spiciest Memelord : 5/20/2022 12:57 pm : link
In comment 15714219 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
as I posted yesterday, I don't really care if Toney or Golladay are in a red jersey right now. It's more important that they are there for the classroom work.

Toney wasn't going to get the playbook until he showed up.

So the situation with Toney and Golladay is good right now. Both are there and both seem engaged. The players have said it is fun to show up for work under Daboll.


So they couldn't recover from their mysterious debilitating inuries this whole off season huh? Can you get red shirted for ill fitting cleats?
Spiciest Memelord  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/20/2022 1:42 pm : link
Not so mysterious if they are still recovering from last year's issues.

Gollday missed three games with a knee injury.

Toney had hamstring, ankle, thumb, quad, oblique, and shoulder injuries.

Could be related to any of those....could be they tweaked a hamstring in the spring. We don't know.

But they are there. That's a start. They weren't there last year.
RE: RE: RE: I wonder...  
rich in DC : 5/20/2022 2:26 pm : link
In comment 15714287 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 15714276 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 15714257 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


if this team stays healthy, is productive, and makes the playoffs - what BBI will make of that.



95 percent of us will be thrilled.

But the odds are much higher that fans will overrate our chances and then cry bloody murder when we are out of the playoff hunt.



I am sticking to we go 8-9. I think this team is better than people are giving credit for. Last year this team won 4 games (should have won 2 other games without bonehead plays that cost us the game) and honestly would have been in games late if we hadn't lost our QB.

I am not saying this was a "good" team last year just that we should have ended up with more than 6 wins last year with a truly shitty Oline, no weapons in most games and a pretty pathetic Coaching staff.

Our Oline (still being put together) is leaps ahead of last year based on paper only to start. I mean two top 10 picks at OT, a VET center, a Vet Guard and then either a 3 year VET G coming back from injury or a rookie draft pick at the other G spot. That Oline alone is a HUGE improvement over the lines of the last two years.

I am really getting 1984 vibes from this team!


I don’t think there’s much question that the Giants added some very talented players to a roster desperately short of them. However, the new Giants regime came in a cleaned out a LARGE percentage of the roster, and had very limited ability to add useful vets to the squad.

Yes, they added some nice UDFAs. However, therein lies a big problem.

The depth on this team is paper thin. A rash of injuries and the Giants will be starting players who might not even make most other teams. This is the NFL- injuries can and do happen.

The front line talent is better, but the depth is worse. In a even longer season (now 17 games), injuries and rookies hitting the rookie wall will need to be a reality that we must contend with.

I may sound negative, but I think 4-5 wins would be an accomplishment with this team. The new regime needs one, maybe two more draft and FA rounds to build the talent AND depth to be competitive. It just won’t happen this year.
Also, Daboll mentioned that the red shirts  
Dave on the UWS : 5/20/2022 2:31 pm : link
were for players rehabbing injuries AND for players with injury "issues" previously who needed workload managed. They may be in red jerseys to give them more time to heal, or just to reduce their on field workload during the spring. As long as they are there for classroom and mental reps that's a decent enough start, especially compared to last year.
I would think is OTA was more about seeing the bottom 2/3 roster  
Eric on Li : 5/20/2022 3:17 pm : link
than the top 1/3 of the roster that’s not going anywhere in the near future.

23 of the bottom 60 are going to make the 53 plus another chunk for practice squad and injuries. Identifying the weakest 5-10 now and trying to replace them heading into camp is likely at the top of the to do list. Other than not getting someone in the top 1/3 injured.
RE: RE: So we are playing  
Spiciest Memelord : 5/20/2022 4:35 pm : link
In comment 15714059 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15714054 Dankbeerman said:


Quote:


Nickel base or is that just what we practiced today? Was interested to see how the DL was positioned. but if only using 2 at a time it doesnt much matter



Great question...media in attendance didn't really elaborate. Sounds like we were in a 2-4-5 defense most of THIS practice.


A 2-4-5 with beefy Williams and Lawrence could be a feasible "base" defense.

KT and Olujari at edge and Martinez and Crowder (or one of the rookie LBs) inside.
Wink  
Toth029 : 5/20/2022 6:05 pm : link
Ran a lot of that in Baltimore. I like it.
RE: I would think is OTA was more about seeing the bottom 2/3 roster  
Bill in UT : 5/20/2022 8:56 pm : link
In comment 15714492 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
than the top 1/3 of the roster that’s not going anywhere in the near future.

23 of the bottom 60 are going to make the 53 plus another chunk for practice squad and injuries. Identifying the weakest 5-10 now and trying to replace them heading into camp is likely at the top of the to do list. Other than not getting someone in the top 1/3 injured.


Yes, the evaluations on the bottom 2/3 are more important. But this year it's also important to get everyone fluent in the new system/playbook ASAP
RE: RE: RE: So we are playing  
Bill in UT : 5/20/2022 9:00 pm : link
In comment 15714550 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
In comment 15714059 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 15714054 Dankbeerman said:


Quote:


Nickel base or is that just what we practiced today? Was interested to see how the DL was positioned. but if only using 2 at a time it doesnt much matter



Great question...media in attendance didn't really elaborate. Sounds like we were in a 2-4-5 defense most of THIS practice.



A 2-4-5 with beefy Williams and Lawrence could be a feasible "base" defense.

KT and Olujari at edge and Martinez and Crowder (or one of the rookie LBs) inside.


A 2 man front isn't going to stop the run and it isn't going to get to the QB. You may as well play a 0-4-7 on a passing down
Bill in UT  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/20/2022 9:25 pm : link
You do understand that linebackers and defensive backs blitz like crazy in Wink's scheme?

2-4-5 can be a great defense against the pass if you have good pass rushers. In other words, would you rather have an athlete who can rush the passer on the field or another DT?
RE: I wonder...  
MartyNJ1969 : 5/20/2022 10:25 pm : link
In comment 15714257 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
if this team stays healthy, is productive, and makes the playoffs - what BBI will make of that.


If the Giants make the playoffs this year, Schoen win GM of year and Daboll wins coach of the year hands down.
Little Bill invented the 2-4-5 defense as a base defense  
Spiciest Memelord : 5/21/2022 1:46 pm : link
to counter Buffalo in the Super Bowl.

It is not a formation you would likely use on 2nd and 2 against 21, 12 or heavy personnel though, but potentially a good D in today's NFL pass happy NFL against 11 personnel in most down and distances.
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