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Looking forward to our first pro level O-Line in a decade

ArcadeSlumlord : 5/19/2022 11:29 pm
Thomas | Garcia | Feliciano | Glowinski | Neal

BIG Nasties! As a former o-lineman I am stoked. Really excited about our depth and potential this season.

Lets f'n go!!!
That LG spot will be an open competition  
eric2425ny : 5/19/2022 11:33 pm : link
Garcia, Lemieux, and Ezeudu will be fighting for that spot.

It’s great to see actual competition on the line for once. Not one or two solid starters, a bunch of castoffs and failed draft picks and UDFA’s for depth.
...  
broadbandz : 5/19/2022 11:36 pm : link
how could a nfl franchise get offensive line play so wrong for so long. You almost have to try to be that bad. Judge and Gettleman should have been fired on the spot when they suggested Solder come back for 2021. At that point they were activally trying to be the worst oline in football.
Small thought I had today...  
bLiTz 2k : 5/19/2022 11:39 pm : link
watching coach Johnson's interview -

He mentioned he wants guys who play on the edge, specifically called out Glow and Feliciano. He said if guys don't play that way, they just won't play...

It made me immediately think of Lemieux. Out of the options at LG, I think there's a nastiness to his game. If his pass pro technique has improved and he's healthy, I think he's got the inside track at that spot.
RE: ...  
ArcadeSlumlord : 5/19/2022 11:40 pm : link
In comment 15714017 broadbandz said:
Quote:
how could a nfl franchise get offensive line play so wrong for so long. You almost have to try to be that bad. Judge and Gettleman should have been fired on the spot when they suggested Solder come back for 2021. At that point they were activally trying to be the worst oline in football.


^ this. The travesty was DG was hired under the guise he would fix the o-line. Schoen has done it in one offseason and on a tight budget.

And I know all positions are an open competition except the tackles but this is what i project will start. Would love to see Ezeudu make progress and start next year. Our old starters still on the roster can be excellent experienced depth.
I don't mean to be the negative guy, but...  
GruningsOnTheHill : 5/19/2022 11:59 pm : link
I will believe it when I see it.

Pugh, Flowers. Hernandez. Zeitler. Solder.

I'm hoping this year will be different, but the sad reality is that none of the last ten have been different, in spite of premium draft picks and high-dollar free agent signings and trades.
RE: That LG spot will be an open competition  
short lease : 5/20/2022 1:39 am : link
In comment 15714015 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
Garcia, Lemieux, and Ezeudu will be fighting for that spot.

It’s great to see actual competition on the line for once. Not one or two solid starters, a bunch of castoffs and failed draft picks and UDFA’s for depth.


+1

My guess is Ezeudu wins. But, we will see. I think that there is a few good candidates and whoever starts will have won the job in camp. A good thing.
RE: ...  
eli4life : 5/20/2022 4:31 am : link
In comment 15714017 broadbandz said:
Quote:
how could a nfl franchise get offensive line play so wrong for so long. You almost have to try to be that bad. Judge and Gettleman should have been fired on the spot when they suggested Solder come back for 2021. At that point they were activally trying to be the worst oline in football.


I mean you have a horrible line and you don’t draft at least one? I think that sums it up perfectly
I am not going to say its fix yet  
George from PA : 5/20/2022 5:51 am : link
But I do believe we have the players in house to solve it.

Neal will take some time to settle in as an NFL RT....I have no doubt he will become a solid RT or more....

I am not convinced the dirtbag is the answer at center either....I would feel better with a fully healthy Gates.

Frenchy will fit right in to what Johnson wants...

And I love how Schoen filled the OL room....so depth with immediate and developmental players.....

The pieces are here...lets give it a little time to gel
After the Bye  
MarvelousMike : 5/20/2022 7:05 am : link
That is when I will judge the improvements in the OL through end of season. Hopefully, they will need just one new starter for next season (Center or RG).
Be careful  
Maryland Blows : 5/20/2022 7:15 am : link
The usual suspects will be on here to tell you it should not make a difference if the OL sucks. If you are stars you should make them better. I completely agree with you this is the ultimate team sport. Your OL makes your QB better and your RB better and your WR's and TE's. Same with your PR it makes your CB's better because they do not have to cover as long. It forces the opposing teams QB's to make throws they do not want to.
Addressing these 2 major deficiencies is a Godsend. The hope now is that these new players actually do fix these problems so we can start focusing on the other issues on this team. If these changes work it will help show where the deficiencies are. Looking forward to this year, I believe there will be a few posters who will not be happy with what happens.
RE: Small thought I had today...  
Blue21 : 5/20/2022 7:27 am : link
In comment 15714018 bLiTz 2k said:
Quote:
watching coach Johnson's interview -

He mentioned he wants guys who play on the edge, specifically called out Glow and Feliciano. He said if guys don't play that way, they just won't play...

It made me immediately think of Lemieux. Out of the options at LG, I think there's a nastiness to his game. If his pass pro technique has improved and he's healthy, I think he's got the inside track at that spot.
yes he even referred to Lemeiux and called him "Fenchie" said he had him rated high when he was coming out. He sounded like he s favorite but we shall see.
Let's slow our collective rolls just a tiny bit.  
Klaatu : 5/20/2022 7:47 am : link
There are definitely reasons to be optimistic about the O-Line, but after the starters are named it will still probably take some time for the unit to gel. I hope Bobby Johnson can get them up to speed sooner rather than later.
RE: RE: That LG spot will be an open competition  
averagejoe : 5/20/2022 7:57 am : link
In comment 15714031 short lease said:
Quote:
In comment 15714015 eric2425ny said:


Quote:


Garcia, Lemieux, and Ezeudu will be fighting for that spot.

It’s great to see actual competition on the line for once. Not one or two solid starters, a bunch of castoffs and failed draft picks and UDFA’s for depth.



+1

My guess is Ezeudu wins. But, we will see. I think that there is a few good candidates and whoever starts will have won the job in camp. A good thing.


I agree. I think Ezeudu has a good chance to start but will have to win job. I think Giants want mobile OL rather than road graders and he looks like a good fit .
I have a feeling that Center spot is going to continue  
Jimmy Googs : 5/20/2022 8:05 am : link
to be an issue until we put a guy in there that isn't a transitional project...
RE: Let's slow our collective rolls just a tiny bit.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/20/2022 8:15 am : link
In comment 15714058 Klaatu said:
Quote:
There are definitely reasons to be optimistic about the O-Line, but after the starters are named it will still probably take some time for the unit to gel. I hope Bobby Johnson can get them up to speed sooner rather than later.


That
I’m not sold on Feliciano  
George : 5/20/2022 8:22 am : link
I hope he plays well, but I fear that the Center position is not yet settled.
The annual...  
vonritz : 5/20/2022 8:31 am : link
"we have a pro O-Line!" thread. I'll believe it when I see it.
RE: RE: ...  
Mike from Ohio : 5/20/2022 8:35 am : link
In comment 15714019 ArcadeSlumlord said:
Quote:
In comment 15714017 broadbandz said:


Quote:


how could a nfl franchise get offensive line play so wrong for so long. You almost have to try to be that bad. Judge and Gettleman should have been fired on the spot when they suggested Solder come back for 2021. At that point they were activally trying to be the worst oline in football.



^ this. The travesty was DG was hired under the guise he would fix the o-line. Schoen has done it in one offseason and on a tight budget.

And I know all positions are an open competition except the tackles but this is what i project will start. Would love to see Ezeudu make progress and start next year. Our old starters still on the roster can be excellent experienced depth.


We are all hoping the Oline will be much improved this year, but to conclude it is fixed based on hopeful performance of free agents and draft picks is premature to say the least. Weird how people hop right over optimism to surety for something that has not happened.
I get the doubters  
BillT : 5/20/2022 8:41 am : link
But the talent on this line is certainly better than in prior years. The addition of Neal alone would do that and Glowinski is better than any guard we’ve had in years. There are some questions but there is good competition as well. I’m pretty certain we’ll see decent enough line play this year.
Seems like it will be  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/20/2022 8:42 am : link
more competitive which is a good start. Add more to the mix next year and keep doing that.

Mack Brown thinks J Ez would be a great center so maybe he competes at that spot as well. O'Hara was a lower end FA when he came to the Giants. With Snee on his right and a returning and healthy RS on his left he became a pro bowler. Hopefully both guard positions play much better which will help the center spot.
RE: I get the doubters  
Mike from Ohio : 5/20/2022 8:45 am : link
In comment 15714089 BillT said:
Quote:
But the talent on this line is certainly better than in prior years. The addition of Neal alone would do that and Glowinski is better than any guard we’ve had in years. There are some questions but there is good competition as well. I’m pretty certain we’ll see decent enough line play this year.


And to be clear, I am not doubting that this line will be better than it has been in years. But it also takes time for a complete line overhaul to gel. I think people who believe the line has been 'fixed' may be sitting here week 3 disappointed that they are not as solid as expected.

There is a ton of reason for optimism about the Oline this year, but let's not pass out grades and kudos before they run a play.
I would argue that it's longer than a decade.  
Section331 : 5/20/2022 8:54 am : link
The OL in the 2011 SB year was downright awful. The last really good OL we had was 2008.
RE: RE: I get the doubters  
TrueBlue56 : 5/20/2022 8:58 am : link
In comment 15714093 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 15714089 BillT said:


Quote:


But the talent on this line is certainly better than in prior years. The addition of Neal alone would do that and Glowinski is better than any guard we’ve had in years. There are some questions but there is good competition as well. I’m pretty certain we’ll see decent enough line play this year.



And to be clear, I am not doubting that this line will be better than it has been in years. But it also takes time for a complete line overhaul to gel. I think people who believe the line has been 'fixed' may be sitting here week 3 disappointed that they are not as solid as expected.

There is a ton of reason for optimism about the Oline this year, but let's not pass out grades and kudos before they run a play.


I don't think it is fixed by any means, but it is improved. Neal as a rookie is an upgrade over Solder and Peart. Glowinski is an improvement over Hernandez.

I am also really liking what I'm hearing out of the practices as far as the type of plays that are being run (yes, I know its OTA's), but I always felt that Daniel Jones was best suited in a RPO type of offense. Quick reads and decisions, get the ball out to players that can create yards after the catch. Barkley, Toney and Robinson are gonna give defenses fits and helps the offensive line.

Depth and competition is going to help the offensive line. We currently have 17 offensive linemen on our roster. Every spot will be earned and not awarded. I think there will be some tough cuts that will be picked up by other teams. When is the last time we could say that?
RE: I would argue that it's longer than a decade.  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/20/2022 9:01 am : link
In comment 15714098 Section331 said:
Quote:
The OL in the 2011 SB year was downright awful. The last really good OL we had was 2008.


I think they had some injuries in 2009 but they were good in 20010. I still think the biggest mistake the franchise made was not addressing with quality replacements that good OL. By 2011 is was old and very expensive and fell off one by one with nothing behind them. Carting out Snee to camp I think in 2013 was ridiculous until he said I can't do this anymore.
RE: I have a feeling that Center spot is going to continue  
Klaatu : 5/20/2022 9:08 am : link
In comment 15714063 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
to be an issue until we put a guy in there that isn't a transitional project...


Conversions can be iffy, but bringing in an experienced vet doesn't necessarily guarantee good Center play (see J.D. Walton and Spencer Pulley).

Nick Gates aside, I think Bredeson has what it takes to be a pretty good Center, much better than he's shown at Guard. I feel he's worth developing. Doesn't mean I don't want the Giants to draft a good prospect if they have the opportunity next year, or tap into the free agent market, but I'm glad they have options in-house.
RE: RE: RE: I get the doubters  
Jimmy Googs : 5/20/2022 9:08 am : link
In comment 15714102 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:


Depth and competition is going to help the offensive line. We currently have 17 offensive linemen on our roster. Every spot will be earned and not awarded. I think there will be some tough cuts that will be picked up by other teams. When is the last time we could say that?


Yeah...not so much. The NYG OL unit is still quite a ways from suggesting anybody will be a tough cut.

So punt the "last time we could say that" comment down the road please...
RE: RE: Let's slow our collective rolls just a tiny bit.  
rich in DC : 5/20/2022 9:10 am : link
In comment 15714068 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15714058 Klaatu said:


Quote:


There are definitely reasons to be optimistic about the O-Line, but after the starters are named it will still probably take some time for the unit to gel. I hope Bobby Johnson can get them up to speed sooner rather than later.



That


Exactly- as a former OL myself, it takes time playing together to figure out the other OL’s tendancies/habits and preferences. You need time to “gel” as a unit.

The other thing a lot of people who never played OL don’t grasp clearly is that a rookie does not just step in and perform. The NFL is a HUGE jump over whatever they have done before, even if they come out of the SEC. Yes, some OL will start from day 1- but the OL and fans watching them will tell you that the performance at the beginning of the season and end of the season are very different, as they adjust.

We also have to anticipate injuries and potential ineffectiveness. Thomas’ troublesome ankle caused him some issues in his first two years. OL get dinged as much or more than most positions- lots of lower leg stuff and hand small dings add up to sap performance.

IMO, there is no question that the potential and talent level of this OL is higher than we have seen in maybe a decade. However, people should NOT assume that they will start out at a high level or maintain that level all year.

This year is about identifying the “guys” who will be here down the road in 3-4 years. It is also a learning year for many of the young OL. The “get rid of the ball” offense will help the OL, but teams will be crowding the LOS like they have for many years until the Giants prove they can hold up and protect the QB
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Maryland Blows : 5/20/2022 9:21 am : link
In comment 15714084 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 15714019 ArcadeSlumlord said:


Quote:


In comment 15714017 broadbandz said:


Quote:


how could a nfl franchise get offensive line play so wrong for so long. You almost have to try to be that bad. Judge and Gettleman should have been fired on the spot when they suggested Solder come back for 2021. At that point they were activally trying to be the worst oline in football.



^ this. The travesty was DG was hired under the guise he would fix the o-line. Schoen has done it in one offseason and on a tight budget.

And I know all positions are an open competition except the tackles but this is what i project will start. Would love to see Ezeudu make progress and start next year. Our old starters still on the roster can be excellent experienced depth.



We are all hoping the Oline will be much improved this year, but to conclude it is fixed based on hopeful performance of free agents and draft picks is premature to say the least. Weird how people hop right over optimism to surety for something that has not happened.


Mike he never used the word fixed what he said was

BIG Nasties! As a former o-lineman I am stoked. Really excited about our depth and potential this season.

He is excited about our depth and potential so am I. This does not mean it is fixed, it just means we are all more hopeful about the OL this year than last year.
I'll be happy if we can move this unit out  
Rudy5757 : 5/20/2022 9:29 am : link
of the bottom 5 in the league. On paper it is better but LG & C is still a question mark.

Thomas is Thomas
Lemieux/Garcia/Ezeudo? Are they better than what we've had? Is Lemieux healthy? I'd like to see Ezeudo win the job which will show that it is an upgrade by unseating Lemieux
Feliciano - He has 2 starts at C in his career. Is he better than Price was at the end of the year? He was benched in Buffalo when he was a G. I think he may be marginally better than Price which isnt saying much but he will have better play on the right side
Glowinski - Looks like an upgrade over Hernandez
Neal - Looks like a big upgrade, hopefully he comes out of the gate strong

All signs point to a big improvement but we may not see it for a few games which is OK since our schedule is kind of soft to start. I like having Gono on the bench as he was penciled in as the starter in Atlanta before he got hurt last year. The rest will compete for the backup spots.

The offensive scheme will help this unit too. Short quick passes will put less stress on these guys. From very early OTA reports its going to be a fun O to watch. We dont need to have the top OL, we just need them in that 10-20 range.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
Mike from Ohio : 5/20/2022 9:42 am : link
In comment 15714119 Maryland Blows said:
Quote:
In comment 15714084 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


In comment 15714019 ArcadeSlumlord said:


Quote:


In comment 15714017 broadbandz said:


Quote:


how could a nfl franchise get offensive line play so wrong for so long. You almost have to try to be that bad. Judge and Gettleman should have been fired on the spot when they suggested Solder come back for 2021. At that point they were activally trying to be the worst oline in football.



^ this. The travesty was DG was hired under the guise he would fix the o-line. Schoen has done it in one offseason and on a tight budget.

And I know all positions are an open competition except the tackles but this is what i project will start. Would love to see Ezeudu make progress and start next year. Our old starters still on the roster can be excellent experienced depth.



We are all hoping the Oline will be much improved this year, but to conclude it is fixed based on hopeful performance of free agents and draft picks is premature to say the least. Weird how people hop right over optimism to surety for something that has not happened.



Mike he never used the word fixed what he said was

BIG Nasties! As a former o-lineman I am stoked. Really excited about our depth and potential this season.

He is excited about our depth and potential so am I. This does not mean it is fixed, it just means we are all more hopeful about the OL this year than last year.


Per usual, you missed. You are only referencing his original post. I was responding to this comment made later in the thread by the OP (which is included in your post so you must have seen it).

"The travesty was DG was hired under the guise he would fix the o-line. Schoen has done it in one offseason and on a tight budget."

He specifically said the Oline was fixed by Schoen this offseason. The misreading of the thread is you, not me.
Show me  
PatersonPlank : 5/20/2022 9:43 am : link
Every regime change there is all new optimism, but nothing changed. If the OL is better show me, I can wait.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I get the doubters  
TrueBlue56 : 5/20/2022 9:47 am : link
In comment 15714108 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15714102 TrueBlue56 said:


Quote:




Depth and competition is going to help the offensive line. We currently have 17 offensive linemen on our roster. Every spot will be earned and not awarded. I think there will be some tough cuts that will be picked up by other teams. When is the last time we could say that?



Yeah...not so much. The NYG OL unit is still quite a ways from suggesting anybody will be a tough cut.

So punt the "last time we could say that" comment down the road please...


Well, that's your opinion. The way I see it, we have Neal, Thomas, Glowinski, Feliciano and Lemieux as projected starters. That's 5 of the 17 offensive linemen and more than likely 4 roster spots on the 53 for 12 offensive linemen. Garcia, Gates (possible PUP), Gono, Cunningham, Peart, Bredeson, Ezeudu, Mckethan, Rivas, Douglas, Roy Mbaeteka and Hamilton.

Roy Mbaeteka will most likely be an international roster exemption

That still leaves Bredeson, Gono, Garcia, Cunningham, Peart, Ezeudu, Mckethan, Rivas, Douglas and Hamilton fighting for roster spots. There will be tough decisions to the 53. We will see
Time will tell if it's "fixed" but I'm looking forward to two things:  
Heisenberg : 5/20/2022 9:51 am : link
1) It's at least a lot deeper on paper. If we have injuries, we won't be trading away late picks for other team's scraps. They appear to have some depth at every position so the whole room can work together all season and as guys come into the starting lineup by performance or injury, they'll have been together for most of the year. That's a good thing. Last year was nuts. This year, there are at least some replacement level guys on the bench.

2) The style of the line should be a lot different. I would guess they run less gap and more zone. The guys they brought in at each position on the line are better suited for that than the guys they replaced. I'm intrigued to see how #26 does with this type of running game.

A lot of these guys are on 1 year deals so we won't really know if we're pretty well set in the interior of the line for a couple years.
Mike...  
ArcadeSlumlord : 5/20/2022 9:51 am : link
I am a Giants fan, not a Jets fan pal. You sound like a Jets fan and its pissing me off. DG is gone. Schoen and Douglas clearly have a plan. They have brought in competent pro's who are not injured. They didnt overpay for shot refuse. The DG era is behind us. You'll see. Apologize to me after we start 3-1.
RE: Time will tell if it's  
ArcadeSlumlord : 5/20/2022 9:53 am : link
In comment 15714148 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
1) It's at least a lot deeper on paper. If we have injuries, we won't be trading away late picks for other team's scraps. They appear to have some depth at every position so the whole room can work together all season and as guys come into the starting lineup by performance or injury, they'll have been together for most of the year. That's a good thing. Last year was nuts. This year, there are at least some replacement level guys on the bench.

2) The style of the line should be a lot different. I would guess they run less gap and more zone. The guys they brought in at each position on the line are better suited for that than the guys they replaced. I'm intrigued to see how #26 does with this type of running game.

A lot of these guys are on 1 year deals so we won't really know if we're pretty well set in the interior of the line for a couple years.


Thank you! You get it. You see what I see. Our situation at O line is vastly improved. I didnt say "it was settled business". But is it "fixed"? YES, compared to the condition it was in the final week of last season. It was a major focus of the new regime. Look at the moves made at the position. ffs
RE: RE: I have a feeling that Center spot is going to continue  
Jimmy Googs : 5/20/2022 10:10 am : link
In comment 15714107 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 15714063 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


to be an issue until we put a guy in there that isn't a transitional project...



Conversions can be iffy, but bringing in an experienced vet doesn't necessarily guarantee good Center play (see J.D. Walton and Spencer Pulley).

Nick Gates aside, I think Bredeson has what it takes to be a pretty good Center, much better than he's shown at Guard. I feel he's worth developing. Doesn't mean I don't want the Giants to draft a good prospect if they have the opportunity next year, or tap into the free agent market, but I'm glad they have options in-house.


What does Bredeson have to project him as a good Center? Baltimore drafted him but was willing to give up on him pretty quickly for an exchange of picks...and they needed help on the interior. He probably had more bad games than average ones at Guard and has no real experience at Center (i think?).

Hope he becomes good but tend to feel he is likely heading to the bench and possibly off the team altogether this year or next...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I get the doubters  
Jimmy Googs : 5/20/2022 10:20 am : link
In comment 15714144 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15714108 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15714102 TrueBlue56 said:


Quote:




Depth and competition is going to help the offensive line. We currently have 17 offensive linemen on our roster. Every spot will be earned and not awarded. I think there will be some tough cuts that will be picked up by other teams. When is the last time we could say that?



Yeah...not so much. The NYG OL unit is still quite a ways from suggesting anybody will be a tough cut.

So punt the "last time we could say that" comment down the road please...



Well, that's your opinion. The way I see it, we have Neal, Thomas, Glowinski, Feliciano and Lemieux as projected starters. That's 5 of the 17 offensive linemen and more than likely 4 roster spots on the 53 for 12 offensive linemen. Garcia, Gates (possible PUP), Gono, Cunningham, Peart, Bredeson, Ezeudu, Mckethan, Rivas, Douglas, Roy Mbaeteka and Hamilton.

Roy Mbaeteka will most likely be an international roster exemption

That still leaves Bredeson, Gono, Garcia, Cunningham, Peart, Ezeudu, Mckethan, Rivas, Douglas and Hamilton fighting for roster spots. There will be tough decisions to the 53. We will see


Ezeudu is making the roster and likely Mckethan (if he shows anything) is too if not practice squad. Peart is going on PUP. Bredeson probably becomes swing Guard/backup Center. One of those other jags needs to be the swing Tackle.

None of these are tough decisions or cuts...
RE: RE: RE: I have a feeling that Center spot is going to continue  
Klaatu : 5/20/2022 10:20 am : link
In comment 15714171 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15714107 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 15714063 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


to be an issue until we put a guy in there that isn't a transitional project...



Conversions can be iffy, but bringing in an experienced vet doesn't necessarily guarantee good Center play (see J.D. Walton and Spencer Pulley).

Nick Gates aside, I think Bredeson has what it takes to be a pretty good Center, much better than he's shown at Guard. I feel he's worth developing. Doesn't mean I don't want the Giants to draft a good prospect if they have the opportunity next year, or tap into the free agent market, but I'm glad they have options in-house.



What does Bredeson have to project him as a good Center? Baltimore drafted him but was willing to give up on him pretty quickly for an exchange of picks...and they needed help on the interior. He probably had more bad games than average ones at Guard and has no real experience at Center (i think?).

Hope he becomes good but tend to feel he is likely heading to the bench and possibly off the team altogether this year or next...


Just something Sy'56 wrote about him pre-draft:
Quote:

He is on the higher end of experience, toughness, and on-field intelligence. He is rarely caught doing something he shouldn’t be doing when it comes to technique and he always seems to know how to respond to any situation...There may be a chance he moves to center, as some teams are worried about his length shortcoming but they respect his intelligence and grit.
Arcade. I don't disagree with you. IMO Pro level = NFL caliber  
Marty in Albany : 5/20/2022 10:27 am : link
That does not mean ALL-PRO.

Our O-line was poor. Now it's been overhauled. It might very well be NFL caliber. There seems to be more depth than last year which is important.

BIG HOWEVER. A decent O-line requires a decent TE. Is it clear that we have a TE who can adequately pass and run block?
RE: Arcade. I don't disagree with you. IMO Pro level = NFL caliber  
Klaatu : 5/20/2022 10:31 am : link
In comment 15714189 Marty in Albany said:
Quote:
That does not mean ALL-PRO.

Our O-line was poor. Now it's been overhauled. It might very well be NFL caliber. There seems to be more depth than last year which is important.

BIG HOWEVER. A decent O-line requires a decent TE. Is it clear that we have a TE who can adequately pass and run block?


some numbers to consider  
Eric on Li : 5/20/2022 10:46 am : link
# of career starts for the 8 OL on last year's initial 53 from most to least:

127 (solder)
39 (hernandez)
19 (price)
19 (gates)
15 (thomas)
9 (lemieux)
1 (peart)
0 (bredeson)

229 total starts
102 non-solder starts


current group (top 8 contending to start):

74 (glowinski)
52 (garcia)
39 (feliciano)
28 (thomas)
11 (douglas)
10 (lemieux)
R - Neal/Ezeudu

214 total starts

Gates has 21 starts too but didn't include since he's injured.

So if we take out Solder since he was an outlier at the end of a very long career (and cooked), there's more than twice as much starting experience distributed throughout the top 6 as last year's 7 minus Solder.
RE: some numbers to consider  
ArcadeSlumlord : 5/20/2022 11:47 am : link
In comment 15714210 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
# of career starts for the 8 OL on last year's initial 53 from most to least:

127 (solder)
39 (hernandez)
19 (price)
19 (gates)
15 (thomas)
9 (lemieux)
1 (peart)
0 (bredeson)

229 total starts
102 non-solder starts

current group (top 8 contending to start):

74 (glowinski)
52 (garcia)
39 (feliciano)
28 (thomas)
11 (douglas)
10 (lemieux)
R - Neal/Ezeudu

214 total starts

Gates has 21 starts too but didn't include since he's injured.

So if we take out Solder since he was an outlier at the end of a very long career (and cooked), there's more than twice as much starting experience distributed throughout the top 6 as last year's 7 minus Solder.


Which is why, save injury, I believe my projected starting o-line in the original post is what we will have Week 1. I hope (I EMPLORE) Ezeudu to knock the coaches out of their sneakers and push to start over Max Garcia. But I am pretty sure they are going to let the Proven Experienced Veteran free agents anchor the middle/core of our line to support our young stud tackle bookends. The only starter from last year on our line will be Thomas.
RE: Let's slow our collective rolls just a tiny bit.  
Payasdaddy : 5/20/2022 12:06 pm : link
In comment 15714058 Klaatu said:
Quote:
There are definitely reasons to be optimistic about the O-Line, but after the starters are named it will still probably take some time for the unit to gel. I hope Bobby Johnson can get them up to speed sooner rather than later.


Not expecting top 5 oline but this is the first time For a real long time we have real pedigree at OT. And real depth and competition for IOL
Inside we are talking average talent but it’s row deep to duke it out.
I thought SL had some bright moments in 2020( along with pass pro shortcomings). So I am not writing him off

God forbid J. Ez wins the job as a rookie and shows promise. At this point I think we are one short of a top ten line. But I expect this group to be middle of the road and maybe better.
Anyone remember Andrew Thomas' rookie year?  
arniefez : 5/20/2022 12:16 pm : link
A lot of rookie OTs take some time to get up to NFL speed and physicality week after week. I am optimistic but I don't think the OL isn't "fixed". It's been turned over. On paper there is potential for a good group but I don't think it happens very quickly. Hopefully regardless of the record the OL comes together in the 2nd half of the season and it's one less hole to plug for 2023.
RE: Anyone remember Andrew Thomas' rookie year?  
Eric on Li : 5/20/2022 12:29 pm : link
In comment 15714346 arniefez said:
Quote:
A lot of rookie OTs take some time to get up to NFL speed and physicality week after week. I am optimistic but I don't think the OL isn't "fixed". It's been turned over. On paper there is potential for a good group but I don't think it happens very quickly. Hopefully regardless of the record the OL comes together in the 2nd half of the season and it's one less hole to plug for 2023.


Thomas had a tough first half but a good second half. his adjustment may have also been quicker if there were OTAs and a normal training camp/preseason. That all got cancelled bc of covid.

I don't think anyone is saying this is the best OL in football or even the NFCE - just that it should for the first time in a decade be functional.

Neal's contribution to that should fall within the same range as the rookie seasons for Thomas/Wirfs/Wills/Becton/Slater/Sewell because he's that same level prospect and all of them were starter level by the end of their rookie years.

if anything the possibility that he's a stud day 1 like Wirfs/Slater/Sewell is being discounted. The Rams and the Eagles were the only 2 teams with 2 OT's graded as well as Thomas or better last year, so if Neal happens to be a stud the nyg could have a top 5 bookend combo next year. Of the 6 OTs I listed all picked in the top 13 of the last 2 drafts, 2 made all pro right away, so I don't think it's crazy to say there's a 20-30% chance Neal is similarly on that level. You can stretch that back to 2018 and 2019 to include Jonah Williams, Nelson, and McGlinchey and the same probability remains. All 3 were immediate starters and 1/3 is an all pro.
I'll be honest  
Jay on the Island : 5/20/2022 3:43 pm : link
If Max Garcia is the starting LG I will be very disappointed unless both Shane Lemieux and Josh Ezeudu suffer injuries. That's not a knock on Garcia as he is a valuable reserve but it would be a sign that neither Lemieux or Ezeudu stood out in camp.

I have a feeling that Ezeudu will finish the season as the starting LG.
There isn't much argument as to whether the Schoen/Daboll overhaul of  
Ira : 5/20/2022 3:51 pm : link
the o-line is on the right track. It's just a question of when they get there. Of the free agents, Glowinski is the only one that inspires real confidence. He will be an upgrade at right guard. Of the rookies, most of us think Neal and Ezeudu will be very good players who will be very good at right tackle and left guard at some point. It's just that some ol (like Andrew Thomas) take some time to reach the promised land.
RE: There isn't much argument as to whether the Schoen/Daboll overhaul of  
Jay on the Island : 5/20/2022 3:55 pm : link
In comment 15714512 Ira said:
Quote:
the o-line is on the right track. It's just a question of when they get there. Of the free agents, Glowinski is the only one that inspires real confidence. He will be an upgrade at right guard. Of the rookies, most of us think Neal and Ezeudu will be very good players who will be very good at right tackle and left guard at some point. It's just that some ol (like Andrew Thomas) take some time to reach the promised land.

If Nick Gates can return to form, still a big if, then that will go a long way towards the OL line becoming a top unit.
RE: ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/20/2022 4:05 pm : link
In comment 15714017 broadbandz said:
Quote:
how could a nfl franchise get offensive line play so wrong for so long. You almost have to try to be that bad. Judge and Gettleman should have been fired on the spot when they suggested Solder come back for 2021. At that point they were activally trying to be the worst oline in football.

There are a few things in a sequence that led to Solder coming back (and actually starting) in 2021. It's very likely that Mara wanted to give Solder a chance to go out on his own terms (saccharine sentimentality by Mara is not exactly confined to this particular instance); then, Gettleman (or Abrams) realized they could expand their FA shopping spree by reworking Solder's deal, which freed up additional cap space but increased the penalty to cut Solder if Judge desired to do so when finalizing the roster; then, Judge - at that point effectively forced to keep Solder anyway, reaches the conclusion (whether accurate or not) that Peart is actually even worse than Solder.

If any of those three things don't happen (and two of the three involve DG, because he didn't have to touch Solder's contract at all, and even if he had, the lack of a competent alternative was an even bigger problem), Solder probably would have remained in the role BBI expected for him: swing tackle.

The biggest problem, though, is that's far from the only example of gross mismanagement on the OL. If the rest of the OL was decent last year, Solder (or Peart) could have been covered up in a number of different ways.

Just a reminder though, because these threads always seem to prove that many BBI posters don't watch any games other than the Giants: the Giants had plenty of company in the awful OL category. By several metrics, they were actually closer to the middle of the pack than the bottom of the league. That doesn't mean they were good. It doesn't mean they were even acceptable. It just means that OL play is probably at an all-time low across much of the NFL.
by the way, a big thank you to all  
ArcadeSlumlord : 5/20/2022 4:19 pm : link
who have participated on this thread. This is by far my most successful and engaging post on BBI. I have been lurking since the very early 2000s so it puts a smile on my face. This is a good sign for the fans and our community to be having this much engagement in May!
RE: I'll be honest  
ArcadeSlumlord : 5/20/2022 4:24 pm : link
In comment 15714504 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
If Max Garcia is the starting LG I will be very disappointed unless both Shane Lemieux and Josh Ezeudu suffer injuries. That's not a knock on Garcia as he is a valuable reserve but it would be a sign that neither Lemieux or Ezeudu stood out in camp.

I have a feeling that Ezeudu will finish the season as the starting LG.


I generally agree with everything you said. My reasoning for them starting OUT the season with Garcia is he is a competent veteran who is solid. He does not make many mistakes, he is stable and smart - just nothing special. If Shane can beat him out with grit, GREAT! I do also believe Ezeudu finishes out the season in the starting lineup. Where does that leave Shane? *shrug* a reserve? probably.
What was Buffalo’s line like? As I recall very average yet the team  
plato : 5/20/2022 9:50 pm : link
played winning football. Just interested since some key elements have moved South to MY/NJ and in one off season “fixed” the Giant o line?

Interesting how hinges happen. The Giant ‘o’ line has been a struggle since Rosie Brown retired. First round draft choices etc through the years didn’t seem to help but when had a GM who a college ‘lineman’, things did improve during his tenure and shortened lifetime.
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