Jones has enabled people to ignore how bad Saquon is

that Barkley is a Giant next year short of him having a ridiculous year and the Giants making a run in the playoffs.

but he gained over 3,500 yards from scrimmage in his first two years in the league in an offense which ranked in the bottom 5 in the NFL and had a terrible OL. Yes, he has problems in pass protection and isn't your typical between the tackles kind of runner, but prior to his torn ACL he was one of the most dangerous players in the NFL with the ball in space.

I'll give him a pass for 2021 as most players not named AP take 18+ months to recover 100% from ACL reconstruction. I don't understand the hate on this board for Saquon but I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do in a dynamic offensive scheme with an improved OL.

And OL was a turnstile

And OL scheme the past 2 years was horrible

But outside of that....you are absolutely right

and has been for a long, long time.

"He is going to want a large contract and has proven he cannot stay healthy" comments. The are contradictory and don't make much sense. How can he get a large contract without being healthy and playing well? What player doesn't want a large contract?

Now, not nearly the "beating a dead horse" discussion as there is on Jones. But, honestly, it gets old seeing those discussions.

about this not being discussed enough. I feel the same way about Daniel Jones.

To really beat this a bit further…it should read

Did Mara by hiring Gettleman who drafted Jones enable us to ignore how bad Barkley is…despite being touched by the hand of G-d.

and I hope we don't re-sign him. Better yet, I hope we trade him at the deadline.

the phrase "he's going to want a large $ contract" please?

This is not unique to Saquon or any other player or any other professional.

is how well does he need to play to even get a contract offer from us? If he doesn't play well or gets hurt again, its a moot point, because it isn't happening.

So, exact same situation as Jones and definitely need another 400 threads on it.

that some people made him out to be.

He is not good enough to make a bad OL look better than it is, he is not a good blocker for the QB, and he is not a particularly patient runner, does not set up his blocks or wait for them to develop when in space. He is built like a power runner but doesn't have the physicality behind the look.

much more creative and competent coaching staff (with the hope of at least an average offensive line) Barkley does before throwing him on the scrap heap.

In comment 15714234 Doubledeuce22 said:

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that Barkley is a Giant next year short of him having a ridiculous year and the Giants making a run in the playoffs.

almost 0 chance he will ever be that player again

In comment 15714239 csb said:

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but he gained over 3,500 yards from scrimmage in his first two years in the league in an offense which ranked in the bottom 5 in the NFL

sorry meant to reply to this

He's a top 10-15 Rb for sure. In his defense, his OL's here have been horrendous. Maybe he has a huge year this season. I do think, regardless, his future is in another NFL city. The NYG cannot give him a 2nd contract.

In comment 15714251 UConn4523 said:

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is how well does he need to play to even get a contract offer from us? If he doesn't play well or gets hurt again, its a moot point, because it isn't happening. So, exact same situation as Jones and definitely need another 400 threads on it.

Thanks for adding sanity to this post. Jones’s inconsistencies aren’t causing people to forget about Barkley, and rightly or wrongly they’re both talked about ad nauseam. DJ just happens to play the most important position in the sport while Saquon plays a more de-valued position. Both probably get more hate than they deserve, but both may be gone if they continue getting hurt or playing subpar. That’s really it.

It's pretty simple, SB needs to demonstrate he's got the wheels, burst, and confidence back, and he needs to show growth with regards to patience with blocks, finding and hitting the holes as designed, show some friggin toughness and get the job done.

Fall short and it's either goodbye or a big compromise on his next contract. Make no mistake, he's viewed by the owners as a face of the NYG franchise. He's going to have to play himself off the team, but now I think you've got a GM/HC who will guide this to a proper conclusion.

If he gets more of a pass, I think it's due to the hope that he just needs to regain full health, not because Jones soaks up the negative spotlight.

In comment 15714260 cactus said:

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In comment 15714234 Doubledeuce22 said: Quote: that Barkley is a Giant next year short of him having a ridiculous year and the Giants making a run in the playoffs. almost 0 chance he will ever be that player again

A lot of assumptions being made without having access to Saquon and his workouts. He may not be the same player, he may have just needed an extra year to recover. We should really stop with the conjecture here.

... and it makes sense from the Giants perspective, is if he actually takes market value for a gadget player with a ton of miles on him. Which would be a huge pay cut that I'm not sure he'd be willing to take from the Giants.

Best case scenario is he plays well enough for Schoen to trick a team into trading a 3rd rounder for him at the deadline.

But a healthy SB used properly with half way competent Oline can be a difference maker. That's a lot of if's, but certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

Year wasn’t a fluke. However, I do agree if he doesn’t produce something close to his rookie season, he is gone. Even if he does have a great year again, I think he gets a franchise tag at best. Prove it in 2022. Prove it again in 2023.

Daboll and Kapka should be able to create a wide-open offense that will utilize whichever of the playmakers (Barkley, Toney, Golladay) can meet expectations. All 3 probably won’t meet expectations but we can hope for 2 out of 3, plus contributions from Slayton, Wan’dale, and at least one from the TE, H-back position.

if he doesnt they wont. When he is healthy and used correctly he can be an amazing talent. The last 2 years he was not used correctly and then the injuries. this staff will evaluate him and see if he's worth keeping and go from there.

I hope he has a monster season, its a good problem to have. If he has a monster season he is going to want a huge contract and I think Schoen will let him walk in that scenario or Franchise him to see what he can do 2 years in a row. For me its hard to give a RB a long term contract.

If he doesnt do well this year we wont want him back and he will probably get a modest 1 year prove it deal somewhere else.

What is the Mara effect here? Saquon is the face of the franchise, could the owner step in and say he wants him back? He might.

Lets all hope he has a great season, it makes us a better team and at some point this team needs to start winning and now worry about giving a guy that had a great season a contract. The franchises that stay on top let good players leave when their price gets too high and backfill. If you have a solid core you can keep building on that. RB is no longer a core position and the Bills are a good example of that. The whole RB group was making half of what Saquon is making. You can get a cheap RB in FA.

In comment 15714268 FStubbs said:

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... and it makes sense from the Giants perspective, is if he actually takes market value for a gadget player with a ton of miles on him. Which would be a huge pay cut that I'm not sure he'd be willing to take from the Giants. Best case scenario is he plays well enough for Schoen to trick a team into trading a 3rd rounder for him at the deadline.

We say these things now, but we have no idea how Daboll plans to use him. He has been dinged by injuries, poor scheme fits and bad olines. He himself has flaws. But if they turn him into something resembling what Alvin Kamara does, I think they’d try to keep him. We don’t know what the plan is for him yet.

and putting players in position to succeed, we did the exact opposite with SB.

I'm expecting a much better fit.

In comment 15714277 UberAlias said:

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and putting players in position to succeed, we did the exact opposite with SB.

I was just thinking the same thing. He can’t pass block well so let’s have him pass block?

what would have put players, specifically Barkley in position to succeed is Gettleman not sitting on his ass telling the world he knew best while the offensive line was a burning dumpster.

In comment 15714239 csb said:

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but he gained over 3,500 yards from scrimmage in his first two years in the league in an offense which ranked in the bottom 5 in the NFL and had a terrible OL. Yes, he has problems in pass protection and isn't your typical between the tackles kind of runner, but prior to his torn ACL he was one of the most dangerous players in the NFL with the ball in space. I'll give him a pass for 2021 as most players not named AP take 18+ months to recover 100% from ACL reconstruction. I don't understand the hate on this board for Saquon but I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do in a dynamic offensive scheme with an improved OL.

Agreed. I think he and Jones will play better in 2022, but not well enough to FT or resign. This is the last year for both IMO.

In comment 15714240 George from PA said:

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And OL was a turnstile And OL scheme the past 2 years was horrible But outside of that....you are absolutely right

He also severely sprained his ankle ONE year after ACL surgery.

He’s an explosive, dynamic player when healthy. Full stop.

Some of us have gone full fucking stupid on Barkley. Agendas will do that.

In comment 15714296 AcidTest said:

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In comment 15714239 csb said: Quote: but he gained over 3,500 yards from scrimmage in his first two years in the league in an offense which ranked in the bottom 5 in the NFL and had a terrible OL. Yes, he has problems in pass protection and isn't your typical between the tackles kind of runner, but prior to his torn ACL he was one of the most dangerous players in the NFL with the ball in space. I'll give him a pass for 2021 as most players not named AP take 18+ months to recover 100% from ACL reconstruction. I don't understand the hate on this board for Saquon but I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do in a dynamic offensive scheme with an improved OL. Agreed. I think he and Jones will play better in 2022, but not well enough to FT or resign. This is the last year for both IMO.

This is how I see it. Better but not good enough, and moving on.

give a 2nd contract to a RB. They didn't even draft one. The HC has already singled out the UDFA RB as someone who has caught his eye. The film doesn't lie. What Barkley put on film last year is unacceptable for an NFL RB. He was afraid of contact. Everyone saw that.

Hopefully the GM has enough juice to choose his own players and contracts after 2022.

When you are racing the defender to the ball and that’s just the handoff

But he'll be wearing a Green and Black Jersey, playing for his hometown team.

did you know:

Phil Simms first three years in the league- 67 combined TO's, 45 Int's 22 Fum

Daniel Jones first three years in the league- 65 combined TO's, 29 ints 36 Fum

Phil Simms first three years in the league- 39 TD passes

Daniel Jones first three years in the league- 45 TD passes

I know these are different eras but, their numbers are very similar. Simms was drafted #7, Jones was drafted #6. They both have missed time in each of their first three years. Now, Simms was injured and missed all of 82 and then was not the starter in 83, before being injured again when he got into a game and missed the rest of that season.

So, if we ignore 82 and 83 (as Simms really didn't play) then Simms's make or break year was 84 and Jones's make or break year is here in 2022. I think we will need to see the same improvement we saw from Simms (though the numbers will need to be more inline with football in 2022) and a chance at the playoffs would need to be part of that.

I am feeling the 84 vibe here quite a bit!

Three broken tackles all year.

hold off on making any conclusions about Saquon until we can actually see him playing fully healthy or at least not coming back from a serious injury then adding to that with a freak ankle sprain to further set him back.

He may have lost a step or lost his confidence and may never be able to tailor his game to be a more aggressive north/south runner but it's impossible to know if any of that is true as we just haven't seen him playing injury or recovery free since his rookie year.....not to mention the Oline, pathetic offense, etc issues surrounding him while trying to come back from said injuries.

Complain all you want about the $$$ going forward and the decision to take a RB that high or his pass blocking issues...but to ignore such obvious context completely is just off base IMO. Hell, he hasn't even had a chance to get the necessary healthy reps in practice (or certainly in games) to even work on his weaknesses. At the end of the day, his main issue just may be that he turns out to be injury prone/unlucky but his play on the field is a very big unknown and TBD for me. I do know that I wouldn't bet against him if this is the year he stays healthy.

It allows us to keep our overvalued players for a couple more years...

because our line has been so bad.

Let's see them with a serviceable line.

is Schoen understands position value. RB is just NOT a position he is going to put big money into.

But I think the discussion usually follows the same format as the Jones discussion. 90% of the board falls into one of two camps...

1. He is a really good player, but system and Oline have made him look terrible

2. He sucks independent of those two factors.

I think it is fair to evaluate both in light of their crappy circumstances, while also acknowledging the struggles each have had also largely falls back on them.

I swear these have to be the same people who change their names that start the same threads. Saquon stinks then writes this:

But seems there is a lack all around of people discussing just how bad Saquon has been. Then they continue,

Is the there any scenario where he is a Giant in 2023? He is going to want a large contract and has proven he cannot stay healthy. Plus, when he has been on the field he has been underwhelming at best since his rookie year.

Well, here goes, only a moron would write this. 1st if he is so bad he can ask for as large a contact as he wants but the market dictates your worth. If he sucks there will be no market. As for is there a scenario he is here next year? Of course there is, that is for the FO and coaching staff to decide. It is really my hope that the same 10 to 20 negative posters who post and create every OL sucks, Jones and Saquon sucks thread take it up the ass this year. I could think nothing that would be sweeter than to see Jones and Saquon have incredible years. To watch them eat crow and to see their heads explode this year would be so satisfying I am not going to lie. So looking forward to this year.

If Barkley has a great year....he better be traded at deadline....if you do not want him back.

When fully healthy, he is the most entertaining player on team.....

Schoen will have a very hard time letting him walk in FA....if the Giants have a ton of cap space.

...

By two guys who currently don’t have jobs. I think that says it all.

A massive bust.

is like being married to a supermodel and complaining that she can't cook.

In comment 15714386 Gman11 said:

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is like being married to a supermodel and complaining that she can't cook.

If the supermodel wasn't doing supermodel things but also not cooking, then yeah.

In comment 15714386 Gman11 said:

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is like being married to a supermodel and complaining that she can't cook.

Kind of ironic that Saquon does look like a supermodel when he blocks...

In comment 15714369 Maryland Blows said:

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It is really my hope that the same 10 to 20 negative posters who post and create every OL sucks, Jones and Saquon sucks thread take it up the ass this year. I could think nothing that would be sweeter than to see Jones and Saquon have incredible years.

So because they've been having terrible years does that mean you've been the one actually taking it up the ass?

I'm looking forward to Jones and Barkley being completely forgettable ex-Giants in 2023.