It’s shit or get off the pot time. No excuses, OL, new system, etc. I swear some people would go on for 5 more years making new excuses every offseason. At some point the 6th pick in the draft needs to overcome things and win games.
It’s shit or get off the pot time. No excuses, OL, new system, etc. I swear some people would go on for 5 more years making new excuses every offseason. At some point the 6th pick in the draft needs to overcome things and win games.
But he didn't fumble like he did in 2019!
That also wasn't a big deal either. Tom Brady once fumbled so ... Duh?
Says the right things & works hard. When I say he isn't a good QB, that isn't a shot at him personally. It is just-based on all the evidence we've seen thus far-evident. I hope Daboll & Kafka turn him into Josh Allen, but I don't see it. I don't think anyone dislikes DJ personally...we just want to an upgrade at the position.
whotf is this Bobby Skinner guy? I see him quoted all the time here as an authority. Former coach? player? gm? scout?
Former college O Lineman. He has a highly popular Giants podcast and YouTube channel. He started doing breakdowns of Giants line play and it grew into a nice business.
It helps when you have terrible red zone players around you. Again you can't blame him for not getting open and not sure why he gets all the grieve when they had Judge, Jason Garrett and Kitchens
It helps when you have terrible red zone players around you. Again you can't blame him for not getting open and not sure why he gets all the grieve when they had Judge, Jason Garrett and Kitchens
He is also not a QB who raises the level of the players around him. Can't be a franchise QB who can't do that. Don't think he processes his reads well enough.
Supporter. I think the guy is talented and he has been facked by a variety of things;terrible, terrible, terrible online play; shitty coaches, change of Scheme, etc… the guy has heart and is accurate. However, I just watched back to back 2021 highlights for DJ & Josh Allen - DJ in no way resembles what JA can do. I hope to see improvement from DJ but no way can he fit the ball in the tight windows JA can. I really like DJ but there are limits and think we as a fan base think maybe the upside is to high - but the floor is also higher then the naysayers, just my two cents
Supporter. I think the guy is talented and he has been facked by a variety of things;terrible, terrible, terrible online play; shitty coaches, change of Scheme, etc… the guy has heart and is accurate. However, I just watched back to back 2021 highlights for DJ & Josh Allen - DJ in no way resembles what JA can do. I hope to see improvement from DJ but no way can he fit the ball in the tight windows JA can. I really like DJ but there are limits and think we as a fan base think maybe the upside is to high - but the floor is also higher then the naysayers, just my two cents
Anyone comparing DJ to Josh Allen (I know you are not) needs to lay off the bath salts. As SF said, DJ seems to get a really long leash, in part due to him being a good person who seemingly works hard. But he hasn’t earned a 4th year based on merit alone, and I think I speak for a lot of people on this board when I say that, short of a great 2022 (30+ tds, 4500 k yards and not an insane amount of turnovers) he needs to be gone. Not another offseason of “yeah buts” from the sycophants
Because of where daball came from and don’t think we will not see that kind of growth. We have been hearing that DJ is going to let it rip more - but he doesn’t have the same type of ceiling. Is more to say that even though this stat line is there our expectation will continued to need to be tempered.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
Agree with your post Johnny. What’s clear to me after a million Jones debates on here the last few years is that he is a very polarizing player. There are those that think he is awful, and those that think his supporting cast has let him down and he still has a chance.
I find myself wavering between these two views. His lack of awareness concerns me with the fumbles, running straight into defenders in an upright position leading to injuries, etc.
But he is also very fast for a player his size, has a decent deep ball, and comes across as a really good dude. And you can’t really ignore the fact that his line has been horrendous (look at what happened to Eli in the last few years here) and he has had very little around him in terms of playmakers, primarily due to injury. As for the coaching staff during his time here, that’s another disaster show. It was also very interesting to see how far this team nosedived when he got hurt last year. Not that they were great with Jones, but the team completely collapsed with Glennon and Fromm at QB. I’m not sure this team wins a game if Glennon/Fromm played QB all of 2021.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
The difference is nobody is dying on that hill right now. Anyone who isn't a believer in Jones is right.
It's just up to you to not take it so personally and just wipe those tears away from your eyes.
about Jones for a while now. For me, he doesn't seem to have the "it" factor. When you absolutely need a score late in the game he seems to come up short. Yet, the players around him don't help him out either. No running game, a TE that couldn't catch on third down, WRs that scared nobody because the ones that were supposed to were usually injured. I guess we'll see.
that this season should be able to answer once and for all is DJ our QB for the future? All the opinions pro/con on Jones are valid to me. Let the organization's evaluation of the season determine the value of Jones to the team and proceed from there. What I don't want is injuries to cloud the decision making. I include Barkley into this reasoning as well. Let the season play out and I hope these will issues will be resolved.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
I have never claimed to be a 'QB expert'. But I've seen enough of him in 3 seasons to make me feel pretty confident he's not the long term answer at the position. And I read these, 'Well the OL sucks so what do you expect from him?' The Bengals OL sucked too & Burrow somehow was able to thrive. I look at guys like Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, etc. & DJ isn't in even in the same stratosphere as them. And the guy is always injured, which doesn't help.
I hope for Jones' sake & ours he lights it up this season, takes us to the playoffs, & makes me look like an idiot. If he does, I'll gladly eat crow.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
I have never claimed to be a 'QB expert'. But I've seen enough of him in 3 seasons to make me feel pretty confident he's not the long term answer at the position. And I read these, 'Well the OL sucks so what do you expect from him?' The Bengals OL sucked too & Burrow somehow was able to thrive. I look at guys like Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, etc. & DJ isn't in even in the same stratosphere as them. And the guy is always injured, which doesn't help.
I hope for Jones' sake & ours he lights it up this season, takes us to the playoffs, & makes me look like an idiot. If he does, I'll gladly eat crow.
Calling out the bolded part.
It's been said before, I'll repeat it:
We started a guy on our offensive line who was in danger of not even making the Bengals team. So let's move on from the idea that Cincinnati's OL was in any way comparable to the train wreck we had.
When the game is on the line, Jones is just as good as accurate and efficient as Jalen Hurts or Teddy Bridgewater.
There is a good chance this is the strongest, positive argument for Jones that there is. When the game is on the line, he is just as deadly as any other below average starter.
but not a good QB so far. maybe that changes this year, maybe not.
I think its best for both him and the team to move in different directions after this year.
But his personality is what the Giants are traditionally looking for in a QB. Someone who doesn't make a splash off the field and keeps out of the news. Keep that in mind for next year's draft.
In comment 15714701 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
He’s been playing with a bunch of all-stars…
If DJ needs a bunch of all-stars to be successful, then what you're really saying is that the QB is just a byproduct of his supporting cast and coaching staff.
If that's the case, we don't need to keep DJ. We can just move onto a new, cheap rookie next year and give them all the same necessary elements for success that DJ would need - and then some because the rookie will cost a fraction of what DJ will cost next year and beyond.
If you want to make the case that DJ is worth keeping because there is some inherent value in the specific QB himself, then you have to acknowledge some culpability by DJ in his own struggles to date.
It logically cannot work both ways.
RE: RE: RE: because people with SF in their handle are annoying.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
This. And i don't understand why it's such a difficult concept. No one is dying on the DJ hill. We're on the same hill Schoen, Daboll and Kaftka are on.
Is a good guy from what I hear, works hard...all good traits. However, like Engram he's a bit tarnsished here by most. He could have an above average year and still have many fans wanting him outn of here.
My hope is that he plays well enough to determine his ceiling. If the ceiling is low then we move on either in mid season trade or at the end of the year.
If he plays lights out, I doubt it. then its another conversation after the season.
Fair enough. To me, I just hate the 'Well, he has nothing to work with...horrible OL, no skill players, etc.' No QB really has a perfect situation, but the good & great ones elevate those around them & get the job done. And it isn't like Jones is a 4th rounder; guy was drafted 6th overall. Now one could argue he was over drafted, but that's not really relevant anymore.
Who wasn’t heavily recruited out of high school. He’s been mediocre at best in the NFL when he’s been healthy. That’s like 11 years worth of evidence. Not sure what people are expecting to happen in 2022 with this guy.
I liked the guy from the beginning..If they put a #10 Jersey and a Helmet on him,I Would have been fooled..
To me,he looked,acted,threw the ball much like Eli..
For better or worse,the INT's were very much like Eli..I don't think Eli had a fumbling problem,like Jones,but the Int's I think they are the same..I want the guy to do good..For 2 reasons. One,I like the guy,two,If we/he does well,next year's draft gets us another Elite pass rusher,or Safety in the 1st round.
That would help the Defence again,as this year's draft has done..So I'm pulling for Jones..If he does not do the job,I'll miss him,and send him a thanks for trying to help my team kid..
We thought last year would provide some clarity but first, his WRs got hurt, then his OL got hurt. Then he got hurt.
This year, we’ve seemingly improved the OL. How much are they improved? We don’t know yet.
The rubber is going to meet the road if the kid has a decent season. Maybe 30TDs/13 picks, and we win like somewhere between 7-10 games. Are we giving that 35 million?
If he totally sucks or gets injured again, it’s an easier call. Of course there is that 1% possibility that the lightbulb comes on and he’s unquestionably a top 5-10 guy. But if we land in the middle, who knows?
When the game is on the line, Jones is just as good as accurate and efficient as Jalen Hurts or Teddy Bridgewater.
There is a good chance this is the strongest, positive argument for Jones that there is. When the game is on the line, he is just as deadly as any other below average starter.
Fair enough. To me, I just hate the 'Well, he has nothing to work with...horrible OL, no skill players, etc.' No QB really has a perfect situation, but the good & great ones elevate those around them & get the job done. And it isn't like Jones is a 4th rounder; guy was drafted 6th overall. Now one could argue he was over drafted, but that's not really relevant anymore.
I think you'll find posts where I defend Jones and where I bury him - I can't really make up my mind on the guy, because he's been surrounded by so much garbage that he's difficult to evaluate.
And that's the issue. Not being able to evaluate him is the same as saying he's not good enough, because of the money at stake.
The only reason the Giants are giving him another shot this season IMO is because there really weren't any other viable options at the position this offseason that were improvements on Jones. (The draft was weak at QB, and let's face it - anyone think a more expensive in '22 Garoppolo or Mayfield are seriously better than Jones?) So he gets another chance to try to show he can be the guy going forward.
Finally - there wouldn't be as much pressure on him if it weren't for the massive amounts of money these QBs demand on their 2nd contracts. If Jones were amenable to a 2 year, $14 million extension right here and now, to try to establish his value in New York, the Giants would sign him immediately, and there wouldn't be as much concern about the position, because we'd have room under the cap to strengthen other areas of the roster.
Now don't get me wrong. I don't hate Jones. I hope he goes out there and throws for 4800 yards and 36 TDs and leads this team to a playoff berth. I just don't know if he will, and I suspect Jones will have his best year as a pro, but not one nearly good enough for the huge extension.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
DJ haters want to die on Glennon and Trubisky hill.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
DJ haters want to die on Glennon and Trubisky hill.
And DJ obsessed fan boys prefer to see the Giants lose than consider the possibility that the GM who drafted him, and was fired for being terrible at drafting, maybe made a mistake with Jones.
RE: I don’t think Jones is even in the grid Skinner
I'm sure you are. As am I. If I offended or was a dick to you in the past, I apologize. I try to steer clear of BBI pissing matches; at the end of the day, 99.9% of us could walk down the street & pass a fellow BBIer & have no clue.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Why people wanna die on the DJ hill
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
DJ haters want to die on Glennon and Trubisky hill.
And DJ obsessed fan boys prefer to see the Giants lose than consider the possibility that the GM who drafted him, and was fired for being terrible at drafting, maybe made a mistake with Jones.
I m not quite sure what a DJ fan boy is, but if it means being hopeful he turns out to be the guy, guess I qualify. Should note, the minute the Giants move on from him, so do I. Does that disqualify me, … not certain I understand the parameters.
I don't get this narrative that 'Certain BBIers want DJ to fail'. I just think those of us in the 'Wanna move on from Jones' camp realize he isn't the long term answer. It is nothing personal; he seems like a good kid &-from all accounts-is a hard worker.
& if he lights it up this year, leads us to the playoffs, & looks like a completely different QB, I'll gladly eat all my talk of wanting to move on from him.
It is crazy to think, but put Phil Simms in this current era & after his 3rd year...he isn't getting a second contract. Different times.
RE: RE: I don’t think Jones is even in the grid Skinner
Pastes in his tweet. What is the sample size for DJ’s stats?
Good catch, he's not. Skinner is a fraud, IMO.
If you look at the tweet thread, Warren Sharp, who made the chart, stated that Daniel Jones and Hurts are in the same spot. Which is why Jones doesn't appear.
Dude, what is your problem? Did I offend you or something? You showed a lot of anger in that post towards me. Bizarre.
Don't even worry about it. I remember the days of thinking it was surprising that grown adults became resentful that someone gave an opinion about a below average QB. It's just really fun to watch people take it so personally.
The name-calling is always the best. Very odd complex these people have.
Dude, what is your problem? Did I offend you or something? You showed a lot of anger in that post towards me. Bizarre.
Don't even worry about it. I remember the days of thinking it was surprising that grown adults became resentful that someone gave an opinion about a below average QB. It's just really fun to watch people take it so personally.
The name-calling is always the best. Very odd complex these people have.
It isn’t just the post on Jones where name calling intrudes, it s one of the tendencies that all but eliminates interesting discussion on many a topic
I can never figure if alcohol or immaturity is the cause, probably both
...Agree with your post Johnny. What’s clear to me after a million Jones debates on here the last few years is that he is a very polarizing player. There are those that think he is awful, and those that think his supporting cast has let him down and he still has a chance.
I find myself wavering between these two views....
As to the language I bolded from eric's comment (and I omitted his reasons for his wavering so as not to incite yet more of the same dreary ossified thinking), I think there is zero debate. And I think what underpins that polarization, even more than his thus far marginal play, is who selected him and when. We all agree that Gettleman was, still is, a fiasco for the franchise. I think even DJ supporters would agree that at 6 he was selected well too early. That is wholly on Gettleman, along with so many other fails, when Giants could have taken the other Josh Allen. But that pick 6 hangs around Jones' neck like an accursed birthmark, a Typhoid Mary epitaph that won't ever be shaken, even if he performs well.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
DJ haters want to die on Glennon and Trubisky hill.
And DJ obsessed fan boys prefer to see the Giants lose than consider the possibility that the GM who drafted him, and was fired for being terrible at drafting, maybe made a mistake with Jones.
Mike show me one post that shows "dj obsessed fan boys prefer to lose" than move on from him. I have never seen anyone post anything like that on this site. Like ever.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
The difference is nobody is dying on that hill right now. Anyone who isn't a believer in Jones is right.
It's just up to you to not take it so personally and just wipe those tears away from your eyes.
Where opinion comes in is the cause of his having been a poor player. Some think it's because he lacks the ability to be a high level NFL QB, others think it's because he has suffered due to the poor players around him.
What I don't get about the later argument is why people would think Gettleman got Jones right and everything else wrong. What I also don't get is why those people aren't making the same argument for every other player.
Where are the arguments for Evan Engram being dragged down by the garbage around him? Where are those arguments for Slayton, or Ximenes, or Crowder, or any other player on the roster? What makes Jones unique that that argument applies only to him? How do we know Niko Lalos isn't being held back from being an All-Pro?
Facts are stubborn things. The fact is Jones has been poor. The rest is conversation.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why people wanna die on the DJ hill
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
DJ haters want to die on Glennon and Trubisky hill.
And DJ obsessed fan boys prefer to see the Giants lose than consider the possibility that the GM who drafted him, and was fired for being terrible at drafting, maybe made a mistake with Jones.
I m not quite sure what a DJ fan boy is, but if it means being hopeful he turns out to be the guy, guess I qualify. Should note, the minute the Giants move on from him, so do I. Does that disqualify me, … not certain I understand the parameters.
DJ Fan Boy is the opposite of DJ Hater. Since many on this site continue to use hyperbole to marginalize anyone with an opposing view point, I thought it should be applied consistently.
If you think there are DJ Haters, you are probably a DJ Fan Boy. Since DJ Haters just want Jones gone and actually hope the Giants suck to accomplish that, a DJ Fan Boy is a someone who would rather lose with DJ at QB than win with someone else at the position.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
DJ haters want to die on Glennon and Trubisky hill.
And DJ obsessed fan boys prefer to see the Giants lose than consider the possibility that the GM who drafted him, and was fired for being terrible at drafting, maybe made a mistake with Jones.
Mike show me one post that shows "dj obsessed fan boys prefer to lose" than move on from him. I have never seen anyone post anything like that on this site. Like ever.
There isn't one, just like there is no post where someone says they hope the Giants suck so they move on from Jones. But that same thought is assigned to people all the time on these threads, usually by the same posters.
I am hoping Jones turns it all around under hopefully a better coaching staff and roster. It is reasonable that he could, but I do not think it is likely. We'll see, but I think it is more likely the Giants are looking at the draft for their new qb.
And that is all Jones's fault?
He's just the QB of their favorite team. Just a bunch of cheerleaders.
Who are you?
But he didn't fumble like he did in 2019!
That also wasn't a big deal either. Tom Brady once fumbled so ... Duh?
Yeah, but it would be great if he could be the upgrade at the position
Former college O Lineman. He has a highly popular Giants podcast and YouTube channel. He started doing breakdowns of Giants line play and it grew into a nice business.
And if he went to another team surrounded by better players, you'd see the same QB.
Who the F are you?
You're a no-nothing piece of shit who brings nothing to the table but the same old same old.
...(no soup for you)
Quote:
.
Who are you?
You don't know who Plato is? Ignoramus!
Quote:
In comment 15714639 plato said:
Quote:
.
Who are you?
You don't know who Plato is? Ignoramus!
Yeah, really. Plato is the Disney dog who isn't Goofy
It helps when you have terrible red zone players around you. Again you can't blame him for not getting open and not sure why he gets all the grieve when they had Judge, Jason Garrett and Kitchens
Quote:
IMO.
It helps when you have terrible red zone players around you. Again you can't blame him for not getting open and not sure why he gets all the grieve when they had Judge, Jason Garrett and Kitchens
He is also not a QB who raises the level of the players around him. Can't be a franchise QB who can't do that. Don't think he processes his reads well enough.
Anyone comparing DJ to Josh Allen (I know you are not) needs to lay off the bath salts. As SF said, DJ seems to get a really long leash, in part due to him being a good person who seemingly works hard. But he hasn’t earned a 4th year based on merit alone, and I think I speak for a lot of people on this board when I say that, short of a great 2022 (30+ tds, 4500 k yards and not an insane amount of turnovers) he needs to be gone. Not another offseason of “yeah buts” from the sycophants
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
Quote:
is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
Agree with your post Johnny. What’s clear to me after a million Jones debates on here the last few years is that he is a very polarizing player. There are those that think he is awful, and those that think his supporting cast has let him down and he still has a chance.
I find myself wavering between these two views. His lack of awareness concerns me with the fumbles, running straight into defenders in an upright position leading to injuries, etc.
But he is also very fast for a player his size, has a decent deep ball, and comes across as a really good dude. And you can’t really ignore the fact that his line has been horrendous (look at what happened to Eli in the last few years here) and he has had very little around him in terms of playmakers, primarily due to injury. As for the coaching staff during his time here, that’s another disaster show. It was also very interesting to see how far this team nosedived when he got hurt last year. Not that they were great with Jones, but the team completely collapsed with Glennon and Fromm at QB. I’m not sure this team wins a game if Glennon/Fromm played QB all of 2021.
Quote:
is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
The difference is nobody is dying on that hill right now. Anyone who isn't a believer in Jones is right.
It's just up to you to not take it so personally and just wipe those tears away from your eyes.
They had the divisional lead with 4 games to go in 2020 and went on to lose 3 of those last 4 games.
Very clutch...
Quote:
is a mystery to me.
He's just the QB of their favorite team. Just a bunch of cheerleaders.
What does that make you?
Quote:
is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
I have never claimed to be a 'QB expert'. But I've seen enough of him in 3 seasons to make me feel pretty confident he's not the long term answer at the position. And I read these, 'Well the OL sucks so what do you expect from him?' The Bengals OL sucked too & Burrow somehow was able to thrive. I look at guys like Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, etc. & DJ isn't in even in the same stratosphere as them. And the guy is always injured, which doesn't help.
I hope for Jones' sake & ours he lights it up this season, takes us to the playoffs, & makes me look like an idiot. If he does, I'll gladly eat crow.
He's hidden behind Jalen Hurts.
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In comment 15714638 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
I have never claimed to be a 'QB expert'. But I've seen enough of him in 3 seasons to make me feel pretty confident he's not the long term answer at the position. And I read these, 'Well the OL sucks so what do you expect from him?' The Bengals OL sucked too & Burrow somehow was able to thrive. I look at guys like Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, etc. & DJ isn't in even in the same stratosphere as them. And the guy is always injured, which doesn't help.
I hope for Jones' sake & ours he lights it up this season, takes us to the playoffs, & makes me look like an idiot. If he does, I'll gladly eat crow.
Calling out the bolded part.
It's been said before, I'll repeat it:
We started a guy on our offensive line who was in danger of not even making the Bengals team. So let's move on from the idea that Cincinnati's OL was in any way comparable to the train wreck we had.
There is a good chance this is the strongest, positive argument for Jones that there is. When the game is on the line, he is just as deadly as any other below average starter.
I think its best for both him and the team to move in different directions after this year.
But his personality is what the Giants are traditionally looking for in a QB. Someone who doesn't make a splash off the field and keeps out of the news. Keep that in mind for next year's draft.
If DJ needs a bunch of all-stars to be successful, then what you're really saying is that the QB is just a byproduct of his supporting cast and coaching staff.
If that's the case, we don't need to keep DJ. We can just move onto a new, cheap rookie next year and give them all the same necessary elements for success that DJ would need - and then some because the rookie will cost a fraction of what DJ will cost next year and beyond.
If you want to make the case that DJ is worth keeping because there is some inherent value in the specific QB himself, then you have to acknowledge some culpability by DJ in his own struggles to date.
It logically cannot work both ways.
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Who are you?
Who the F are you?
You're a no-nothing piece of shit who brings nothing to the table but the same old same old.
You could leave BBI and literally no one would notice.
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is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
This. And i don't understand why it's such a difficult concept. No one is dying on the DJ hill. We're on the same hill Schoen, Daboll and Kaftka are on.
My hope is that he plays well enough to determine his ceiling. If the ceiling is low then we move on either in mid season trade or at the end of the year.
If he plays lights out, I doubt it. then its another conversation after the season.
But we all want him to play well, don't we?
To me,he looked,acted,threw the ball much like Eli..
For better or worse,the INT's were very much like Eli..I don't think Eli had a fumbling problem,like Jones,but the Int's I think they are the same..I want the guy to do good..For 2 reasons. One,I like the guy,two,If we/he does well,next year's draft gets us another Elite pass rusher,or Safety in the 1st round.
That would help the Defence again,as this year's draft has done..So I'm pulling for Jones..If he does not do the job,I'll miss him,and send him a thanks for trying to help my team kid..
I’m not typically sitting at the edge of my seat when there’s 14 minutes left in the third quarter.
This year, we’ve seemingly improved the OL. How much are they improved? We don’t know yet.
The rubber is going to meet the road if the kid has a decent season. Maybe 30TDs/13 picks, and we win like somewhere between 7-10 games. Are we giving that 35 million?
If he totally sucks or gets injured again, it’s an easier call. Of course there is that 1% possibility that the lightbulb comes on and he’s unquestionably a top 5-10 guy. But if we land in the middle, who knows?
There is a good chance this is the strongest, positive argument for Jones that there is. When the game is on the line, he is just as deadly as any other below average starter.
lmao
I think you'll find posts where I defend Jones and where I bury him - I can't really make up my mind on the guy, because he's been surrounded by so much garbage that he's difficult to evaluate.
And that's the issue. Not being able to evaluate him is the same as saying he's not good enough, because of the money at stake.
The only reason the Giants are giving him another shot this season IMO is because there really weren't any other viable options at the position this offseason that were improvements on Jones. (The draft was weak at QB, and let's face it - anyone think a more expensive in '22 Garoppolo or Mayfield are seriously better than Jones?) So he gets another chance to try to show he can be the guy going forward.
Finally - there wouldn't be as much pressure on him if it weren't for the massive amounts of money these QBs demand on their 2nd contracts. If Jones were amenable to a 2 year, $14 million extension right here and now, to try to establish his value in New York, the Giants would sign him immediately, and there wouldn't be as much concern about the position, because we'd have room under the cap to strengthen other areas of the roster.
Now don't get me wrong. I don't hate Jones. I hope he goes out there and throws for 4800 yards and 36 TDs and leads this team to a playoff berth. I just don't know if he will, and I suspect Jones will have his best year as a pro, but not one nearly good enough for the huge extension.
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is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
DJ haters want to die on Glennon and Trubisky hill.
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In comment 15714638 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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is a mystery to me.
He's just the QB of their favorite team. Just a bunch of cheerleaders.
What does that make you?
A douche
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In comment 15714638 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
DJ haters want to die on Glennon and Trubisky hill.
And DJ obsessed fan boys prefer to see the Giants lose than consider the possibility that the GM who drafted him, and was fired for being terrible at drafting, maybe made a mistake with Jones.
Good catch, he's not. Skinner is a fraud, IMO.
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In comment 15714660 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Who are you?
Who the F are you?
You're a no-nothing piece of shit who brings nothing to the table but the same old same old.
You could leave BBI and literally no one would notice.
I'd notice. Please don't leave.
Who are you?! No. I jest. I'm heartbroken.
:) Sorry. I'm actually really normal in real life!
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In comment 15714830 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 15714638 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
DJ haters want to die on Glennon and Trubisky hill.
And DJ obsessed fan boys prefer to see the Giants lose than consider the possibility that the GM who drafted him, and was fired for being terrible at drafting, maybe made a mistake with Jones.
I m not quite sure what a DJ fan boy is, but if it means being hopeful he turns out to be the guy, guess I qualify. Should note, the minute the Giants move on from him, so do I. Does that disqualify me, … not certain I understand the parameters.
& if he lights it up this year, leads us to the playoffs, & looks like a completely different QB, I'll gladly eat all my talk of wanting to move on from him.
It is crazy to think, but put Phil Simms in this current era & after his 3rd year...he isn't getting a second contract. Different times.
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Pastes in his tweet. What is the sample size for DJ’s stats?
Good catch, he's not. Skinner is a fraud, IMO.
If you look at the tweet thread, Warren Sharp, who made the chart, stated that Daniel Jones and Hurts are in the same spot. Which is why Jones doesn't appear.
Don't even worry about it. I remember the days of thinking it was surprising that grown adults became resentful that someone gave an opinion about a below average QB. It's just really fun to watch people take it so personally.
The name-calling is always the best. Very odd complex these people have.
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Dude, what is your problem? Did I offend you or something? You showed a lot of anger in that post towards me. Bizarre.
Don't even worry about it. I remember the days of thinking it was surprising that grown adults became resentful that someone gave an opinion about a below average QB. It's just really fun to watch people take it so personally.
The name-calling is always the best. Very odd complex these people have.
It isn’t just the post on Jones where name calling intrudes, it s one of the tendencies that all but eliminates interesting discussion on many a topic
I can never figure if alcohol or immaturity is the cause, probably both
I find myself wavering between these two views....
As to the language I bolded from eric's comment (and I omitted his reasons for his wavering so as not to incite yet more of the same dreary ossified thinking), I think there is zero debate. And I think what underpins that polarization, even more than his thus far marginal play, is who selected him and when. We all agree that Gettleman was, still is, a fiasco for the franchise. I think even DJ supporters would agree that at 6 he was selected well too early. That is wholly on Gettleman, along with so many other fails, when Giants could have taken the other Josh Allen. But that pick 6 hangs around Jones' neck like an accursed birthmark, a Typhoid Mary epitaph that won't ever be shaken, even if he performs well.
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In comment 15714830 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 15714638 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
DJ haters want to die on Glennon and Trubisky hill.
And DJ obsessed fan boys prefer to see the Giants lose than consider the possibility that the GM who drafted him, and was fired for being terrible at drafting, maybe made a mistake with Jones.
Mike show me one post that shows "dj obsessed fan boys prefer to lose" than move on from him. I have never seen anyone post anything like that on this site. Like ever.
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In comment 15714638 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
The difference is nobody is dying on that hill right now. Anyone who isn't a believer in Jones is right.
It's just up to you to not take it so personally and just wipe those tears away from your eyes.
So you somehow saw tears from this post? lol
What I don't get about the later argument is why people would think Gettleman got Jones right and everything else wrong. What I also don't get is why those people aren't making the same argument for every other player.
Where are the arguments for Evan Engram being dragged down by the garbage around him? Where are those arguments for Slayton, or Ximenes, or Crowder, or any other player on the roster? What makes Jones unique that that argument applies only to him? How do we know Niko Lalos isn't being held back from being an All-Pro?
Facts are stubborn things. The fact is Jones has been poor. The rest is conversation.
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In comment 15714993 Spiciest Memelord said:
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In comment 15714830 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 15714638 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
DJ haters want to die on Glennon and Trubisky hill.
And DJ obsessed fan boys prefer to see the Giants lose than consider the possibility that the GM who drafted him, and was fired for being terrible at drafting, maybe made a mistake with Jones.
I m not quite sure what a DJ fan boy is, but if it means being hopeful he turns out to be the guy, guess I qualify. Should note, the minute the Giants move on from him, so do I. Does that disqualify me, … not certain I understand the parameters.
DJ Fan Boy is the opposite of DJ Hater. Since many on this site continue to use hyperbole to marginalize anyone with an opposing view point, I thought it should be applied consistently.
If you think there are DJ Haters, you are probably a DJ Fan Boy. Since DJ Haters just want Jones gone and actually hope the Giants suck to accomplish that, a DJ Fan Boy is a someone who would rather lose with DJ at QB than win with someone else at the position.
Hope that helps clarify it for you.
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In comment 15714993 Spiciest Memelord said:
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In comment 15714830 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 15714638 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
DJ haters want to die on Glennon and Trubisky hill.
And DJ obsessed fan boys prefer to see the Giants lose than consider the possibility that the GM who drafted him, and was fired for being terrible at drafting, maybe made a mistake with Jones.
Mike show me one post that shows "dj obsessed fan boys prefer to lose" than move on from him. I have never seen anyone post anything like that on this site. Like ever.
There isn't one, just like there is no post where someone says they hope the Giants suck so they move on from Jones. But that same thought is assigned to people all the time on these threads, usually by the same posters.