It’s shit or get off the pot time. No excuses, OL, new system, etc. I swear some people would go on for 5 more years making new excuses every offseason. At some point the 6th pick in the draft needs to overcome things and win games.
It’s shit or get off the pot time. No excuses, OL, new system, etc. I swear some people would go on for 5 more years making new excuses every offseason. At some point the 6th pick in the draft needs to overcome things and win games.
But he didn't fumble like he did in 2019!
That also wasn't a big deal either. Tom Brady once fumbled so ... Duh?
Says the right things & works hard. When I say he isn't a good QB, that isn't a shot at him personally. It is just-based on all the evidence we've seen thus far-evident. I hope Daboll & Kafka turn him into Josh Allen, but I don't see it. I don't think anyone dislikes DJ personally...we just want to an upgrade at the position.
whotf is this Bobby Skinner guy? I see him quoted all the time here as an authority. Former coach? player? gm? scout?
Former college O Lineman. He has a highly popular Giants podcast and YouTube channel. He started doing breakdowns of Giants line play and it grew into a nice business.
It helps when you have terrible red zone players around you. Again you can't blame him for not getting open and not sure why he gets all the grieve when they had Judge, Jason Garrett and Kitchens
It helps when you have terrible red zone players around you. Again you can't blame him for not getting open and not sure why he gets all the grieve when they had Judge, Jason Garrett and Kitchens
He is also not a QB who raises the level of the players around him. Can't be a franchise QB who can't do that. Don't think he processes his reads well enough.
Supporter. I think the guy is talented and he has been facked by a variety of things;terrible, terrible, terrible online play; shitty coaches, change of Scheme, etc… the guy has heart and is accurate. However, I just watched back to back 2021 highlights for DJ & Josh Allen - DJ in no way resembles what JA can do. I hope to see improvement from DJ but no way can he fit the ball in the tight windows JA can. I really like DJ but there are limits and think we as a fan base think maybe the upside is to high - but the floor is also higher then the naysayers, just my two cents
Supporter. I think the guy is talented and he has been facked by a variety of things;terrible, terrible, terrible online play; shitty coaches, change of Scheme, etc… the guy has heart and is accurate. However, I just watched back to back 2021 highlights for DJ & Josh Allen - DJ in no way resembles what JA can do. I hope to see improvement from DJ but no way can he fit the ball in the tight windows JA can. I really like DJ but there are limits and think we as a fan base think maybe the upside is to high - but the floor is also higher then the naysayers, just my two cents
Anyone comparing DJ to Josh Allen (I know you are not) needs to lay off the bath salts. As SF said, DJ seems to get a really long leash, in part due to him being a good person who seemingly works hard. But he hasn’t earned a 4th year based on merit alone, and I think I speak for a lot of people on this board when I say that, short of a great 2022 (30+ tds, 4500 k yards and not an insane amount of turnovers) he needs to be gone. Not another offseason of “yeah buts” from the sycophants
Because of where daball came from and don’t think we will not see that kind of growth. We have been hearing that DJ is going to let it rip more - but he doesn’t have the same type of ceiling. Is more to say that even though this stat line is there our expectation will continued to need to be tempered.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
Agree with your post Johnny. What’s clear to me after a million Jones debates on here the last few years is that he is a very polarizing player. There are those that think he is awful, and those that think his supporting cast has let him down and he still has a chance.
I find myself wavering between these two views. His lack of awareness concerns me with the fumbles, running straight into defenders in an upright position leading to injuries, etc.
But he is also very fast for a player his size, has a decent deep ball, and comes across as a really good dude. And you can’t really ignore the fact that his line has been horrendous (look at what happened to Eli in the last few years here) and he has had very little around him in terms of playmakers, primarily due to injury. As for the coaching staff during his time here, that’s another disaster show. It was also very interesting to see how far this team nosedived when he got hurt last year. Not that they were great with Jones, but the team completely collapsed with Glennon and Fromm at QB. I’m not sure this team wins a game if Glennon/Fromm played QB all of 2021.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
The difference is nobody is dying on that hill right now. Anyone who isn't a believer in Jones is right.
It's just up to you to not take it so personally and just wipe those tears away from your eyes.
about Jones for a while now. For me, he doesn't seem to have the "it" factor. When you absolutely need a score late in the game he seems to come up short. Yet, the players around him don't help him out either. No running game, a TE that couldn't catch on third down, WRs that scared nobody because the ones that were supposed to were usually injured. I guess we'll see.
that this season should be able to answer once and for all is DJ our QB for the future? All the opinions pro/con on Jones are valid to me. Let the organization's evaluation of the season determine the value of Jones to the team and proceed from there. What I don't want is injuries to cloud the decision making. I include Barkley into this reasoning as well. Let the season play out and I hope these will issues will be resolved.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
I have never claimed to be a 'QB expert'. But I've seen enough of him in 3 seasons to make me feel pretty confident he's not the long term answer at the position. And I read these, 'Well the OL sucks so what do you expect from him?' The Bengals OL sucked too & Burrow somehow was able to thrive. I look at guys like Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, etc. & DJ isn't in even in the same stratosphere as them. And the guy is always injured, which doesn't help.
I hope for Jones' sake & ours he lights it up this season, takes us to the playoffs, & makes me look like an idiot. If he does, I'll gladly eat crow.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
I have never claimed to be a 'QB expert'. But I've seen enough of him in 3 seasons to make me feel pretty confident he's not the long term answer at the position. And I read these, 'Well the OL sucks so what do you expect from him?' The Bengals OL sucked too & Burrow somehow was able to thrive. I look at guys like Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, etc. & DJ isn't in even in the same stratosphere as them. And the guy is always injured, which doesn't help.
I hope for Jones' sake & ours he lights it up this season, takes us to the playoffs, & makes me look like an idiot. If he does, I'll gladly eat crow.
Calling out the bolded part.
It's been said before, I'll repeat it:
We started a guy on our offensive line who was in danger of not even making the Bengals team. So let's move on from the idea that Cincinnati's OL was in any way comparable to the train wreck we had.
When the game is on the line, Jones is just as good as accurate and efficient as Jalen Hurts or Teddy Bridgewater.
There is a good chance this is the strongest, positive argument for Jones that there is. When the game is on the line, he is just as deadly as any other below average starter.
but not a good QB so far. maybe that changes this year, maybe not.
I think its best for both him and the team to move in different directions after this year.
But his personality is what the Giants are traditionally looking for in a QB. Someone who doesn't make a splash off the field and keeps out of the news. Keep that in mind for next year's draft.
In comment 15714701 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
He’s been playing with a bunch of all-stars…
If DJ needs a bunch of all-stars to be successful, then what you're really saying is that the QB is just a byproduct of his supporting cast and coaching staff.
If that's the case, we don't need to keep DJ. We can just move onto a new, cheap rookie next year and give them all the same necessary elements for success that DJ would need - and then some because the rookie will cost a fraction of what DJ will cost next year and beyond.
If you want to make the case that DJ is worth keeping because there is some inherent value in the specific QB himself, then you have to acknowledge some culpability by DJ in his own struggles to date.
It logically cannot work both ways.
RE: RE: RE: because people with SF in their handle are annoying.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
This. And i don't understand why it's such a difficult concept. No one is dying on the DJ hill. We're on the same hill Schoen, Daboll and Kaftka are on.
Is a good guy from what I hear, works hard...all good traits. However, like Engram he's a bit tarnsished here by most. He could have an above average year and still have many fans wanting him outn of here.
My hope is that he plays well enough to determine his ceiling. If the ceiling is low then we move on either in mid season trade or at the end of the year.
If he plays lights out, I doubt it. then its another conversation after the season.
Fair enough. To me, I just hate the 'Well, he has nothing to work with...horrible OL, no skill players, etc.' No QB really has a perfect situation, but the good & great ones elevate those around them & get the job done. And it isn't like Jones is a 4th rounder; guy was drafted 6th overall. Now one could argue he was over drafted, but that's not really relevant anymore.
Who wasn’t heavily recruited out of high school. He’s been mediocre at best in the NFL when he’s been healthy. That’s like 11 years worth of evidence. Not sure what people are expecting to happen in 2022 with this guy.
And that is all Jones's fault?
He's just the QB of their favorite team. Just a bunch of cheerleaders.
Who are you?
But he didn't fumble like he did in 2019!
That also wasn't a big deal either. Tom Brady once fumbled so ... Duh?
Yeah, but it would be great if he could be the upgrade at the position
Former college O Lineman. He has a highly popular Giants podcast and YouTube channel. He started doing breakdowns of Giants line play and it grew into a nice business.
And if he went to another team surrounded by better players, you'd see the same QB.
Who the F are you?
You're a no-nothing piece of shit who brings nothing to the table but the same old same old.
...(no soup for you)
Quote:
.
Who are you?
You don't know who Plato is? Ignoramus!
Quote:
In comment 15714639 plato said:
Quote:
.
Who are you?
You don't know who Plato is? Ignoramus!
Yeah, really. Plato is the Disney dog who isn't Goofy
It helps when you have terrible red zone players around you. Again you can't blame him for not getting open and not sure why he gets all the grieve when they had Judge, Jason Garrett and Kitchens
Quote:
IMO.
It helps when you have terrible red zone players around you. Again you can't blame him for not getting open and not sure why he gets all the grieve when they had Judge, Jason Garrett and Kitchens
He is also not a QB who raises the level of the players around him. Can't be a franchise QB who can't do that. Don't think he processes his reads well enough.
Anyone comparing DJ to Josh Allen (I know you are not) needs to lay off the bath salts. As SF said, DJ seems to get a really long leash, in part due to him being a good person who seemingly works hard. But he hasn’t earned a 4th year based on merit alone, and I think I speak for a lot of people on this board when I say that, short of a great 2022 (30+ tds, 4500 k yards and not an insane amount of turnovers) he needs to be gone. Not another offseason of “yeah buts” from the sycophants
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
Quote:
is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
Agree with your post Johnny. What’s clear to me after a million Jones debates on here the last few years is that he is a very polarizing player. There are those that think he is awful, and those that think his supporting cast has let him down and he still has a chance.
I find myself wavering between these two views. His lack of awareness concerns me with the fumbles, running straight into defenders in an upright position leading to injuries, etc.
But he is also very fast for a player his size, has a decent deep ball, and comes across as a really good dude. And you can’t really ignore the fact that his line has been horrendous (look at what happened to Eli in the last few years here) and he has had very little around him in terms of playmakers, primarily due to injury. As for the coaching staff during his time here, that’s another disaster show. It was also very interesting to see how far this team nosedived when he got hurt last year. Not that they were great with Jones, but the team completely collapsed with Glennon and Fromm at QB. I’m not sure this team wins a game if Glennon/Fromm played QB all of 2021.
Quote:
is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
The difference is nobody is dying on that hill right now. Anyone who isn't a believer in Jones is right.
It's just up to you to not take it so personally and just wipe those tears away from your eyes.
They had the divisional lead with 4 games to go in 2020 and went on to lose 3 of those last 4 games.
Very clutch...
Quote:
is a mystery to me.
He's just the QB of their favorite team. Just a bunch of cheerleaders.
What does that make you?
Quote:
is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
I have never claimed to be a 'QB expert'. But I've seen enough of him in 3 seasons to make me feel pretty confident he's not the long term answer at the position. And I read these, 'Well the OL sucks so what do you expect from him?' The Bengals OL sucked too & Burrow somehow was able to thrive. I look at guys like Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, etc. & DJ isn't in even in the same stratosphere as them. And the guy is always injured, which doesn't help.
I hope for Jones' sake & ours he lights it up this season, takes us to the playoffs, & makes me look like an idiot. If he does, I'll gladly eat crow.
He's hidden behind Jalen Hurts.
Quote:
In comment 15714638 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
I have never claimed to be a 'QB expert'. But I've seen enough of him in 3 seasons to make me feel pretty confident he's not the long term answer at the position. And I read these, 'Well the OL sucks so what do you expect from him?' The Bengals OL sucked too & Burrow somehow was able to thrive. I look at guys like Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, etc. & DJ isn't in even in the same stratosphere as them. And the guy is always injured, which doesn't help.
I hope for Jones' sake & ours he lights it up this season, takes us to the playoffs, & makes me look like an idiot. If he does, I'll gladly eat crow.
Calling out the bolded part.
It's been said before, I'll repeat it:
We started a guy on our offensive line who was in danger of not even making the Bengals team. So let's move on from the idea that Cincinnati's OL was in any way comparable to the train wreck we had.
There is a good chance this is the strongest, positive argument for Jones that there is. When the game is on the line, he is just as deadly as any other below average starter.
I think its best for both him and the team to move in different directions after this year.
But his personality is what the Giants are traditionally looking for in a QB. Someone who doesn't make a splash off the field and keeps out of the news. Keep that in mind for next year's draft.
If DJ needs a bunch of all-stars to be successful, then what you're really saying is that the QB is just a byproduct of his supporting cast and coaching staff.
If that's the case, we don't need to keep DJ. We can just move onto a new, cheap rookie next year and give them all the same necessary elements for success that DJ would need - and then some because the rookie will cost a fraction of what DJ will cost next year and beyond.
If you want to make the case that DJ is worth keeping because there is some inherent value in the specific QB himself, then you have to acknowledge some culpability by DJ in his own struggles to date.
It logically cannot work both ways.
Quote:
Who are you?
Who the F are you?
You're a no-nothing piece of shit who brings nothing to the table but the same old same old.
You could leave BBI and literally no one would notice.
Quote:
is a mystery to me.
Why people want to die on the "He sucks, I know because I'm some sort of QB expert" hill baffles me.
To be fair the only clear things I see people post in absolutes are that "he sucks and will never be more than mediocre". I never see the people in his corner (you know, as Giants fans) post anything more than they think he has been dealt a shit hand and they think maybe there is something there that could still be cultivated. You know with like real consistent coaching. And some actual blocking.
Like me. I guess we just differ there.
This. And i don't understand why it's such a difficult concept. No one is dying on the DJ hill. We're on the same hill Schoen, Daboll and Kaftka are on.
My hope is that he plays well enough to determine his ceiling. If the ceiling is low then we move on either in mid season trade or at the end of the year.
If he plays lights out, I doubt it. then its another conversation after the season.
But we all want him to play well, don't we?