runner at 2nd and third , one out, fly ball to center, both runners tag but the runner at second leaves early the play comes home he is safe they appeal at second - he's out.
this is very straightforward - the run counts. The batter touched all bases and returned home legally.
If the appeal play results in the third out, things get more interesting if there is a forced runner involved. But in this case runner is not forced and I think the run still counts.
So the second part of my post is the relevant one.
If a batter achieves the circuit legally only a force play or timing play (which I believe does not apply here - the third out called after time is out) stops the run.
So I still say yes - hope I’m right!
This play actually happened in a Little League state tournament game
I was broadcasting in Vermont around 1990. I had to leave the broadcast and send it back to the studio so the Little League state administrator could plug into the phone jack I was using and call the National Little League offices to get a ruling
As long as the batter doesn't make the last out before getting to first, the run should count as long as he scores prior to the last out getting physically recorded.
another reason that I have a hell of a time trying to explain the rules of baseball to my Russian friend who joins me at minor league games. He asks me all the time, "why is this game so complicated?"
I was broadcasting in Vermont around 1990. I had to leave the broadcast and send it back to the studio so the Little League state administrator could plug into the phone jack I was using and call the National Little League offices to get a ruling
But I dont remember the ruling!
How could you not remember the answer to the question if you saw it before? Ha ha ha
another reason that I have a hell of a time trying to explain the rules of baseball to my Russian friend who joins me at minor league games. He asks me all the time, "why is this game so complicated?"
and my overriding concern was my broadcast, which is why I remember all those details
I’m 70% sure if someone asked me 30 years from now I would guess right
Because you dont have an overriding concern about your broadcast, which is why I remember my broadcast issue with the league having to unplug my broadcast instead of the result of the ruling
Interesting, I would've thought being caught off the base without
If the throw comes into 2nd and then they have to appeal, the run comes off the board provided the ball arrives at 2B before the runner on 3rd crosses the plate.
If the throw comes into 2nd and then they have to appeal, the run comes off the board provided the ball arrives at 2B before the runner on 3rd crosses the plate.
and my overriding concern was my broadcast, which is why I remember all those details
I’m 70% sure if someone asked me 30 years from now I would guess right
Because you dont have an overriding concern about your broadcast, which is why I remember my broadcast issue with the league having to unplug my broadcast instead of the result of the ruling
and my overriding concern was my broadcast, which is why I remember all those details
I’m 70% sure if someone asked me 30 years from now I would guess right
Because you dont have an overriding concern about your broadcast, which is why I remember my broadcast issue with the league having to unplug my broadcast instead of the result of the ruling
I was kidding fyi
And if you broadcasted little league games you have a lifetime pass to the baseball lovers club
If the throw comes into 2nd and then they have to appeal, the run comes off the board provided the ball arrives at 2B before the runner on 3rd crosses the plate.
That is what I was thinking too.
Theres really no other way to imterpret it. Not to mention if the runner actually tries to tag from 2nd on a fly to CF, left early and was NOT trying to get caught in a run down to ensure the run, that player should be benched.
If the throw comes into 2nd and then they have to appeal, the run comes off the board provided the ball arrives at 2B before the runner on 3rd crosses the plate.
That is what I was thinking too.
Theres really no other way to imterpret it. Not to mention if the runner actually tries to tag from 2nd on a fly to CF, left early and was NOT trying to get caught in a run down to ensure the run, that player should be benched.
The appeal can't happen before the run scored. It happens after the play.
Why would a team benefit from an Umpire error missing a tag up, even after the error is corrected?
It's not an umpire error. It's not the umps job to stop a runner from leaving early. It's the defense's job to throw to the base to get the early runner out. They did, but not until after the lead runner had scored.
If the throw comes into 2nd and then they have to appeal, the run comes off the board provided the ball arrives at 2B before the runner on 3rd crosses the plate.
That is what I was thinking too.
Theres really no other way to imterpret it. Not to mention if the runner actually tries to tag from 2nd on a fly to CF, left early and was NOT trying to get caught in a run down to ensure the run, that player should be benched.
The appeal can't happen before the run scored. It happens after the play.
Oh, Im on it now. I was confusing appeal with review. Agreed....an appeal is the play on going....I believe you can appeal until the pitcher toes the rubber again. But if the throw comes into 2nd and no play is made on the bag and they have to appeal after the runner crosses....its definitely a run.
Remember that the scenario is that the runner left early from 2nd on the fly ball. While clearly the runner from 3rd crossed the plate, that is irrelevant as the out would be retroactive to the runner leaving early.
It is by virtue of the runner leaving early that the 3rd out occurred. Therefore, the runner is out, the play should be considered “dead” from the moment the runner left early and the inning is over without the run scoring.
Remember that the scenario is that the runner left early from 2nd on the fly ball. While clearly the runner from 3rd crossed the plate, that is irrelevant as the out would be retroactive to the runner leaving early.
It is by virtue of the runner leaving early that the 3rd out occurred. Therefore, the runner is out, the play should be considered “dead” from the moment the runner left early and the inning is over without the run scoring.
Or, that’s my opinion.
I agree but you are wrong that’s why I was wrong too
Remember that the scenario is that the runner left early from 2nd on the fly ball. While clearly the runner from 3rd crossed the plate, that is irrelevant as the out would be retroactive to the runner leaving early.
It is by virtue of the runner leaving early that the 3rd out occurred. Therefore, the runner is out, the play should be considered “dead” from the moment the runner left early and the inning is over without the run scoring.
Or, that’s my opinion.
An appeal is a continuation of the play....almost as if the runner is caught in a run down. Just as once that runner gets tagged, it is not retroactive to the runner being the third out. Just as if a runner tries to stretch out a double or triple and makes the third out, that does not cancel out the run.
On appeal, the play is actually still going on so the best way to look at it is as a runner not being out automatically.
Everything has to happen before the runner scores. Im pretty sure the ONLY exception is if you turn a double play on a ball hit on the ground in the infield
A run cannot score when the final out is a force out.
This appeal, I believe, would qualify as a force out.
This makes sense to me.
Made sense to me too, but I'm wrong lol
Appears the rule I was thinking of was if the batter doesn't reach first.
So, if the bases were loaded, and the batter grounds to third (who steps on third forcing guy at 3rd) - but the runner on third had broken early during the pitch and actually crossed home plate before the 3rd baseman tags third........does that run count? I think it would.
So, if the bases were loaded, and the batter grounds to third (who steps on third forcing guy at 3rd) - but the runner on third had broken early during the pitch and actually crossed home plate before the 3rd baseman tags third........does that run count? I think it would.
No. That would be a force out at third, so if it's the third out of the inning, no runs score. That's exactly the rule you quoted before.
If the appeal play results in the third out, things get more interesting if there is a forced runner involved. But in this case runner is not forced and I think the run still counts.
So the second part of my post is the relevant one.
If a batter achieves the circuit legally only a force play or timing play (which I believe does not apply here - the third out called after time is out) stops the run.
So I still say yes - hope I’m right!
But I dont remember the ruling!
Thanks it’s more fun that way
A run cannot score when the final out is a force out.
This appeal, I believe, would qualify as a force out.
In this case the appeal happens after the run scores so I would think it counts.
A run cannot score when the final out is a force out.
This appeal, I believe, would qualify as a force out.
This makes sense to me.
UmpireBible - ( New Window )
But I dont remember the ruling!
How could you not remember the answer to the question if you saw it before? Ha ha ha
I’m 70% sure if someone asked me 30 years from now I would guess right
You are 1% correct ! Don’t feel bad no one knew this which is just shocking to me it doesn’t seem like that unusual a situation
What stadium do you frequent ?
Quote:
and my overriding concern was my broadcast, which is why I remember all those details
I’m 70% sure if someone asked me 30 years from now I would guess right
Because you dont have an overriding concern about your broadcast, which is why I remember my broadcast issue with the league having to unplug my broadcast instead of the result of the ruling
That is what I was thinking too.
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In comment 15715344 Snablats said:
Quote:
and my overriding concern was my broadcast, which is why I remember all those details
I’m 70% sure if someone asked me 30 years from now I would guess right
Because you dont have an overriding concern about your broadcast, which is why I remember my broadcast issue with the league having to unplug my broadcast instead of the result of the ruling
I was kidding fyi
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In comment 15715349 capone said:
Quote:
In comment 15715344 Snablats said:
Quote:
and my overriding concern was my broadcast, which is why I remember all those details
I’m 70% sure if someone asked me 30 years from now I would guess right
Because you dont have an overriding concern about your broadcast, which is why I remember my broadcast issue with the league having to unplug my broadcast instead of the result of the ruling
I was kidding fyi
And if you broadcasted little league games you have a lifetime pass to the baseball lovers club
Quote:
If the throw comes into 2nd and then they have to appeal, the run comes off the board provided the ball arrives at 2B before the runner on 3rd crosses the plate.
That is what I was thinking too.
Theres really no other way to imterpret it. Not to mention if the runner actually tries to tag from 2nd on a fly to CF, left early and was NOT trying to get caught in a run down to ensure the run, that player should be benched.
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In comment 15715366 FrankHuntington said:
Quote:
If the throw comes into 2nd and then they have to appeal, the run comes off the board provided the ball arrives at 2B before the runner on 3rd crosses the plate.
That is what I was thinking too.
Theres really no other way to imterpret it. Not to mention if the runner actually tries to tag from 2nd on a fly to CF, left early and was NOT trying to get caught in a run down to ensure the run, that player should be benched.
It's not an umpire error. It's not the umps job to stop a runner from leaving early. It's the defense's job to throw to the base to get the early runner out. They did, but not until after the lead runner had scored.
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In comment 15715368 Del Shofner said:
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In comment 15715366 FrankHuntington said:
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If the throw comes into 2nd and then they have to appeal, the run comes off the board provided the ball arrives at 2B before the runner on 3rd crosses the plate.
That is what I was thinking too.
Theres really no other way to imterpret it. Not to mention if the runner actually tries to tag from 2nd on a fly to CF, left early and was NOT trying to get caught in a run down to ensure the run, that player should be benched.
The appeal can't happen before the run scored. It happens after the play.
Oh, Im on it now. I was confusing appeal with review. Agreed....an appeal is the play on going....I believe you can appeal until the pitcher toes the rubber again. But if the throw comes into 2nd and no play is made on the bag and they have to appeal after the runner crosses....its definitely a run.
Remember that the scenario is that the runner left early from 2nd on the fly ball. While clearly the runner from 3rd crossed the plate, that is irrelevant as the out would be retroactive to the runner leaving early.
It is by virtue of the runner leaving early that the 3rd out occurred. Therefore, the runner is out, the play should be considered “dead” from the moment the runner left early and the inning is over without the run scoring.
Or, that’s my opinion.
Remember that the scenario is that the runner left early from 2nd on the fly ball. While clearly the runner from 3rd crossed the plate, that is irrelevant as the out would be retroactive to the runner leaving early.
It is by virtue of the runner leaving early that the 3rd out occurred. Therefore, the runner is out, the play should be considered “dead” from the moment the runner left early and the inning is over without the run scoring.
Or, that’s my opinion.
I agree but you are wrong that’s why I was wrong too
Remember that the scenario is that the runner left early from 2nd on the fly ball. While clearly the runner from 3rd crossed the plate, that is irrelevant as the out would be retroactive to the runner leaving early.
It is by virtue of the runner leaving early that the 3rd out occurred. Therefore, the runner is out, the play should be considered “dead” from the moment the runner left early and the inning is over without the run scoring.
Or, that’s my opinion.
An appeal is a continuation of the play....almost as if the runner is caught in a run down. Just as once that runner gets tagged, it is not retroactive to the runner being the third out. Just as if a runner tries to stretch out a double or triple and makes the third out, that does not cancel out the run.
On appeal, the play is actually still going on so the best way to look at it is as a runner not being out automatically.
Everything has to happen before the runner scores. Im pretty sure the ONLY exception is if you turn a double play on a ball hit on the ground in the infield
Or, that’s my opinion.
Yeah, it's not really subject to your belief or opinion.
Quote:
...the rule is written as follows:
A run cannot score when the final out is a force out.
This appeal, I believe, would qualify as a force out.
This makes sense to me.
Made sense to me too, but I'm wrong lol
Appears the rule I was thinking of was if the batter doesn't reach first.
So, if the bases were loaded, and the batter grounds to third (who steps on third forcing guy at 3rd) - but the runner on third had broken early during the pitch and actually crossed home plate before the 3rd baseman tags third........does that run count? I think it would.
No. That would be a force out at third, so if it's the third out of the inning, no runs score. That's exactly the rule you quoted before.