Josh Donaldson has been suspended one game and given a fine by Major League Baseball for inappropriate comments made toward the White Sox' Tim Anderson during Saturday's game.
MLB wrote in a statement that Donaldson's comment "was disrespectful and in poor judgment, particularly when viewed in the context of their prior interactions.” Donaldson has appealed the suspension, although he is already sidelined after being placed on the COVID-19 injured list earlier Monday.
Why?
Because I take being called a racist very very seriously.
And when I am called one,when I clearly am not being racist,it sets a very bad precedence.
Anderson had no reason to air this grievance out on front street like this,and Donaldson addressed it immediately and explained the situation-didn't shy away,and still he gets suspended????
I didn't think the suspension was necessary, I didn't think Donaldson intended it in a malicious or racial manner, but I also think it's fair to say that's probably just not a smart place to go with trash talk.
So, it boils down to intent, right? Did Donaldson have some racial motivation? I didn't hear it that way, and I'm squarely in the camp that Donaldson is one of the game's biggest jerkoffs.
Unless "Jackie" is some new version of the "N-word" I don't know about, Donaldson deserves the benefit of the doubt here; and this is a matter best handled like adults where MLB has a meeting with both players together to iron it out.
Alas, MLB is making decisions based on guidance from the PC Handbook.
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where the way that words have been hi-jacked and over-used just makes everything worse.
Its like the word "racist" has no meaning anymore. It's whatever someone wants it to be.
I think Donaldson is an absolute jackass. Always have. Given the nature of the comparison that Anderson drew between himself and Jackie Robinson, and the clear context of that being race, it was a very stupid and INSENSITIVE thing to say. And I could see how one might find it OFFENSIVE. I also think he's just a fucking jerk.
I don't see how it's RACIST, though. That word carries a much higher burden of proof / intent / malice, in my view.
But those three capitalized words just get freely tossed around as synonyms these days. So one you put yourself in the crosshairs of even one of those things, you're a card-carrying member of the KKK to many people.
It's odd to me that the league got involved, beyond perhaps making a statement. It's not a slur, and taking suspension action probably only increases the gray area surrounding this type of thing going forward. I do support the league's right to take action in defense of its brand. So my feelings aren't too strong that he shouldn't have been suspended either.
You're trying to split the atom here between offensive and racist with no real reason or distinction. The only context where this can be "offensive" is if you're looking at his comment to be about race. You're presenting a distinction without a difference.
You can think that Andersons comments about being the only African american on his team at the time are ridiculous. To be bringing them up and using them as snarky comments three years later is racist.
I don't think Anderson's comments about being the only black guy on his team are ridiculous -- and I don't need you to tell me what I'm trying to do.
Nothing I said is a defense of Donaldson. He's literally one of my least favorite athletes across all sports, and I think he's an absolute asshole to boot.
If you don't agree, and all of those words mean the same thing to you, that's perfectly fine. But you don't get to talk down to everyone else about it and decide that nuance doesn't exist just because you view yourself as being on the high ground.
If it's a binary tribal issue for you, great. We all thank you for letting us know you're one of the good guys. And we're tremendously proud of you.
So like, say DJ LeMahieu made the comment or made multiple comments, a guy other players seem to respect... I doubt this is anything. I bet Anderson is laughing along with him. But you know how sometimes one type of guy says something, and it's taken completely differently (perhaps rightfully so) compared to when another guy says the exact same thing? I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of those situations.
I think at the end of the day the 1-game suspension is a good thing. In the scheme of things it's a pretty small loss for the Yankees. Anything more than that and I do think it's MLB on a witch hunt and over-indulging "woke culture," if you want to call it that. It sends a message to Donaldson, and that message isn't "don't be racist." If MLB really thought it was racist, he'd be gone for a lot longer. The message is "stop being an absolute fuckhead and putting us in situations like this.
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In comment 15717124 bigbluehoya said:
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where the way that words have been hi-jacked and over-used just makes everything worse.
Its like the word "racist" has no meaning anymore. It's whatever someone wants it to be.
I think Donaldson is an absolute jackass. Always have. Given the nature of the comparison that Anderson drew between himself and Jackie Robinson, and the clear context of that being race, it was a very stupid and INSENSITIVE thing to say. And I could see how one might find it OFFENSIVE. I also think he's just a fucking jerk.
I don't see how it's RACIST, though. That word carries a much higher burden of proof / intent / malice, in my view.
But those three capitalized words just get freely tossed around as synonyms these days. So one you put yourself in the crosshairs of even one of those things, you're a card-carrying member of the KKK to many people.
It's odd to me that the league got involved, beyond perhaps making a statement. It's not a slur, and taking suspension action probably only increases the gray area surrounding this type of thing going forward. I do support the league's right to take action in defense of its brand. So my feelings aren't too strong that he shouldn't have been suspended either.
You're trying to split the atom here between offensive and racist with no real reason or distinction. The only context where this can be "offensive" is if you're looking at his comment to be about race. You're presenting a distinction without a difference.
You can think that Andersons comments about being the only African american on his team at the time are ridiculous. To be bringing them up and using them as snarky comments three years later is racist.
I don't think Anderson's comments about being the only black guy on his team are ridiculous -- and I don't need you to tell me what I'm trying to do.
Nothing I said is a defense of Donaldson. He's literally one of my least favorite athletes across all sports, and I think he's an absolute asshole to boot.
If you don't agree, and all of those words mean the same thing to you, that's perfectly fine. But you don't get to talk down to everyone else about it and decide that nuance doesn't exist just because you view yourself as being on the high ground.
If it's a binary tribal issue for you, great. We all thank you for letting us know you're one of the good guys. And we're tremendously proud of you.
Ok, sorry for talking down to you. How is it offensive but not racist? Unless you're using "offensive" to mean "a little racist" and "racist" to mean "really racist" what you're arguing here doesn't really make logical sense and doesn't really reflect what those words mean.
If you're trying to make the distinction to indicate the severity of what he said, then ok, I get that. But I don't agree with reserving "racist" only for boldfaced bigot level stuff. This is my main problem with the complaint that we get from folks who say "everyone is getting called a racist these days". They seem to really be trying to draw a distinction between racist stuff that they think is not so bad and therefore not worth fighting over and other stuff we all agree (mostly, at least) is bad. To me, Donaldson's sneering dig and a Proud Boy nazi march can both be racist, even if it is to clear and indisputably different degrees. Trying to classify Donaldson's bs as "offensive but not racist" is not really a meaningful distinction. He's obviously still thinking about it 3 years later and him thinking that it's still funny now and using it as a dig is racist.
Also, I'm a Yankee fan and fucking hate Josh Donaldson. Fuck that guy.
I got the feeling LaRussa barked that out because he took some heat for not supporting the team when someone swung 3-0 and hit a homer (or something of that sort).
JD can be a turd, but if guys with a history are busting each other’s chops, a guy that makes that kind of comparison, or actually any comparison, is opening the door to being mocked on it.
Isn’t this similar to the person that said they were a modern day JFK, when a Congressman came back and said, I knew John F Kennedy, and you sir are no JFK( not exact quote)?
Hell when I played football in HS and college we not only were called a lot worse the coaches slapped us in the head (helmet on of course). We thought nothing of it.
If you're trying to make the distinction to indicate the severity of what he said, then ok, I get that. But I don't agree with reserving "racist" only for boldfaced bigot level stuff. This is my main problem with the complaint that we get from folks who say "everyone is getting called a racist these days". They seem to really be trying to draw a distinction between racist stuff that they think is not so bad and therefore not worth fighting over and other stuff we all agree (mostly, at least) is bad. To me, Donaldson's sneering dig and a Proud Boy nazi march can both be racist, even if it is to clear and indisputably different degrees. Trying to classify Donaldson's bs as "offensive but not racist" is not really a meaningful distinction. He's obviously still thinking about it 3 years later and him thinking that it's still funny now and using it as a dig is racist.
Also, I'm a Yankee fan and fucking hate Josh Donaldson. Fuck that guy.
Appreciate the apology. Accepted.
The way I think about it...racism is awful. Truly despicable. I want it eradicated. I want consequences for it. It will be a never-ending battle, but over time we can consistently make it truly better than it was before, and better than it is today. We have made progress. And we need more.
I think in order for us to do that, we need to have some agreed-upon boundaries of what these words mean.
We have seen what the label "racist" can do to people. It can really impact livelihoods. And I want it to. But only when it's really true. Getting it wrong and casting the net too wide has consequences that not only aren't helpful to the cause, but harmful.
And so I think in those cases where we want real consequences, we need to have a real burden of proof that it's true. And there needs to be a certain benefit of the doubt in the absence of such proof.
To me - if someone says a thing that doesn't directly signal that they dislike, or think less of, or treat differently a person or group of people because of their race...I stop short of calling that racist.
If someone fails to consider the way that their words or actions might impact someone who hears/reads/receives them or fails to correctly consider the context or implications....that's insensitive.
And when I look at the Donaldson situation...
It's something he shouldn't say. We know that at a minimum, given the most charitable read of events, he's an asshole who alluded to a very touchy subject area in a way that wasn't meant to be positive, in the spirit of fucking with his opponent (and specifically an individual that he's had conflict with before).
I just don't see evidence that he's a racist.
Do I think that someone who is insensitive like that is more likely to actually hold racist beliefs than someone who doesn't say such things? Surely.
Should we talk about what he said? and condemn it, or at a minimum help folks see why "joking" or shit-talking about anything in that it should be realm should be off-limits in the 'heat of battle', to use a trite phrase? Absolutely.
But - do I look at that and see they type of malice or hate that should affix to Donaldson a label for which people are often, depending their circumstances, fired from their jobs and ostracized by their communities in a long lasting and often permanent way? I don't think there's nearly enough proof of intent to do that.
The arguments being made here that this is racist are fucking ridiculous and moronic. This wasn’t a racial slur thrown at him. Donaldson didn’t call him the N word, sambo, darkie, etc. He fucking called him Jackie because Anderson likened himself to Jackie Robinson in an article. Period. Full. Fucking. Stop.
How is calling him Jackie offensive? Its trash talk and that's it. Trash talking has been going on for decades and I'm sure there is a ton of stuff said that the public would go nuts about. The difference here is that Anderson is a bitch.
MLB suspending Donaldson is more of a business catering to the PC bullshit(I want to say woke, but don't want to offend anyone) and that's counterproductive, IMO.
I've snipped the bits where I think we disagree here
---snip---
To me - if someone says a thing that doesn't directly signal that they dislike, or think less of, or treat differently a person or group of people because of their race...I stop short of calling that racist.
---snip---
I just don't see evidence that he's a racist.
I get what you're saying here and I guess what's missing is that when I say that what Donaldson said is "racist" it doesn't mean to me that *he's* also a racist. I am not a racist but have said and done things in my life that I would not say and do because now I feel those things are racist. Perhaps Donaldson didn't realize what he was saying would or could be seen as racist when he said it. I guess that's why it is where you'd stop short of calling that racist. You're kind of attaching some weight to Donaldson's intent. His intent is definitely important to what you think about what he said. But for me, whether they intend to directly signal that they dislike or think less of a group of people is not a sufficient test of if something is racist. For me, the act is what it is, regardless of intent.
So, there is no real evidence that Donaldson is a tried and true racist. There's plenty that he's a tried and true asshole so hopefully he can take this basic punishment, STFU and I can resume pretending he's not on my favorite team.
How is calling him Jackie offensive? Its trash talk and that's it. Trash talking has been going on for decades and I'm sure there is a ton of stuff said that the public would go nuts about. The difference here is that Anderson is a bitch.
MLB suspending Donaldson is more of a business catering to the PC bullshit(I want to say woke, but don't want to offend anyone) and that's counterproductive, IMO.
Anderson's original interview in which the Jackie Robinson self-comparison was made was very specifically about race, and the challenges that Anderson has faced/felt in the way that he and his actions are treated or spoken about within the game.
Given the nature of the discussion, I imagine that I wouldn't take kindly to that comment from Donaldson either.
It's a topic matter that Donaldson probably doesn't need to be involved in to begin with, let alone in the intentionally negative context of shit-talking one's opponent on the field of play.
So like, say DJ LeMahieu made the comment or made multiple comments, a guy other players seem to respect... I doubt this is anything. I bet Anderson is laughing along with him. But you know how sometimes one type of guy says something, and it's taken completely differently (perhaps rightfully so) compared to when another guy says the exact same thing? I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of those situations.
I think at the end of the day the 1-game suspension is a good thing. In the scheme of things it's a pretty small loss for the Yankees. Anything more than that and I do think it's MLB on a witch hunt and over-indulging "woke culture," if you want to call it that. It sends a message to Donaldson, and that message isn't "don't be racist." If MLB really thought it was racist, he'd be gone for a lot longer. The message is "stop being an absolute fuckhead and putting us in situations like this.
Good post. Pretty much my take on it.
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If Gerrit Cole came into MLB and compared himself to Roger Clemens and then someone talking shit says......"yeah you're real good Roger" or after hitting a HR someone said, "Hey, nice pitch Roger", is that any different? Is it difference because 1 guy is black. People are getting played by the media and politicians into making everything about race.
How is calling him Jackie offensive? Its trash talk and that's it. Trash talking has been going on for decades and I'm sure there is a ton of stuff said that the public would go nuts about. The difference here is that Anderson is a bitch.
MLB suspending Donaldson is more of a business catering to the PC bullshit(I want to say woke, but don't want to offend anyone) and that's counterproductive, IMO.
Anderson's original interview in which the Jackie Robinson self-comparison was made was very specifically about race, and the challenges that Anderson has faced/felt in the way that he and his actions are treated or spoken about within the game.
Given the nature of the discussion, I imagine that I wouldn't take kindly to that comment from Donaldson either.
It's a topic matter that Donaldson probably doesn't need to be involved in to begin with, let alone in the intentionally negative context of shit-talking one's opponent on the field of play.
I disagree with this completely. Even if Andersons comparison were tied to race, it still doesn't make it offensive or racist, IMO. It's literally trash talking. Yeah ok jackie(he's just saying, you aren't the legend you compared yourself to), I don't understand why everyone tip toes around this race thing. Everyone is racing to be a victim with everything.
As a Jewish person, i am very aware at all of the anti-semetic things that are said in pro sports and there are a lot. I'm not really offended by them, I just look at people like Deshaun Jackson and Lebron James and think they are idiots. I don't think they should be suspended or even reprimanded. In fact, I love how the Jewish community handles it. Come on over and lets talk about why its wrong and why you should stop doing it.
Class of '22 is shaping up to be a doozie.
It was the second benches-clearing incident involving these teams in the past couple of weeks, and both involved the same two players - MLB's getting involved 100 times out of 100. Last year they suspended a player two games for flexing his muscles to a pitcher after scoring a run. They are notorious for overreacting to any on-field issue. Stop being so dramatic.
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The fact they did was just to cater to the overly PC and constant outrage crowd(woke?) thats looking for the opportunity to make noise about something.
It was the second benches-clearing incident involving these teams in the past couple of weeks, and both involved the same two players - MLB's getting involved 100 times out of 100. Last year they suspended a player two games for flexing his muscles to a pitcher after scoring a run. They are notorious for overreacting to any on-field issue. Stop being so dramatic.
I don't think I'm being dramatic at all. In fact, if you're MLB and your concerned that it's going to escalate, then why isn't Anderson suspended or Grandal? They are the ones that escalated it.
I'll give you the answer....its to cater to the PC crowd because they are scared of the backlash.
In comment 15716780 section125 said:
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In comment 15716774 ElitoCanton said:
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It was clearly racist. And Donaldson is an asshole. Sucks to have to root for that POS.
Clearly it isn't
It's only even tangentially racist because of Anderson referring to himself as the modern Jackie Robinson, which is is such an outlandishly absurd comparison to begin with.
If Anderson had made a similarly absurd reference to himself - let's say he declared that he's the human version of green bean casserole - and Donaldson said, "hey, casserole," would that be racist?
This isn't even on the same level as using known slurs that might be considered inoffensive within a community but highly offensive from an outsider. There isn't anything inherently racist about the name "Jackie" and it wasn't like Donaldson chose that name (or any other word) on his own or without context.
Anderson made a ridiculous comment and Donaldson mocked him for it. Could he have avoided it altogether? Sure. Could he have sidestepped it with something like "any other historical icons you'd like to compare yourself to today?" Sure.
Donaldson isn't without responsibility here, but I don't see how it was racist unless Anderson was comparing himself to Jackie Robinson specifically in the context of dealing with racism (which he wasn't, from what I've read).
Sounds like youre looking for a reason to blame Donaldson. Is Tim Anderson not an ass? Grandal was the reason the benches cleared and Tim Anderson escalated it. This was to cater to the PC and nothing more.
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The fact they did was just to cater to the overly PC and constant outrage crowd(woke?) thats looking for the opportunity to make noise about something.
It was the second benches-clearing incident involving these teams in the past couple of weeks, and both involved the same two players - MLB's getting involved 100 times out of 100. Last year they suspended a player two games for flexing his muscles to a pitcher after scoring a run. They are notorious for overreacting to any on-field issue. Stop being so dramatic.
Hahahahahaha
I wouldn't doubt this for a second.
Like what? Don't beat around the bush. Come out and say what you mean.
“I told him, we never have to talk again. I won’t speak to you, you won’t speak to me, if that’s how you’re going to refer to me,” Anderson said, per ESPN’s Jesse Rogers. “I knew he knew exactly what he was doing.”
Link - ( New Window )
Yeah, no. It had been happening since 2019 and not a peep until now? C’mon man. The only convenience here is Anderson ‘waiting’ four years to play this like he’s the victim of some obviously obtuse racism which is ridiculous when, he himself coined the quote, “I feel like I’m the new Jackie Robinson.”
This is so fucking stupid.
You're a troll and Daniel Jones' literal cuck. Shut up.
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a bunch of mostly white guys telling everybody what racism is.
You're a troll and Daniel Jones' literal cuck. Shut up.
Cuck.. lol.. you're a fucking ass wipe.
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In comment 15717729 Producer said:
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a bunch of mostly white guys telling everybody what racism is.
You're a troll and Daniel Jones' literal cuck. Shut up.
Cuck.. lol.. you're a fucking ass wipe.
Better than being you.
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In comment 15717731 Dave in Hoboken said:
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In comment 15717729 Producer said:
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a bunch of mostly white guys telling everybody what racism is.
You're a troll and Daniel Jones' literal cuck. Shut up.
Cuck.. lol.. you're a fucking ass wipe.
Better than being you.
You're consistent abuse aimed at me for statements you don't agree with violate the site rules. Please refrain from targeting and trolling individuals.
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In comment 15717734 Producer said:
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In comment 15717731 Dave in Hoboken said:
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In comment 15717729 Producer said:
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a bunch of mostly white guys telling everybody what racism is.
You're a troll and Daniel Jones' literal cuck. Shut up.
Cuck.. lol.. you're a fucking ass wipe.
Better than being you.
You're consistent abuse aimed at me for statements you don't agree with violate the site rules. Please refrain from targeting and trolling individuals.
Don't you have a Daniel Jones thread to go cry in for the rest of the night? Wouldn't be surprised if you print them out and use them cry-wank yourself to sleep every night.
And you know this thread is mostly full white guys because…you’re just pulling that stat out of your ass with no actual proof of said statement?
Maybe rethink before you post?