to see bought in?
and whos the bigger splash youd like?
Tretter at C for a decent money deal if they have to restructure people - is someone i would target. Build the best OL. can see 2-3 year deal there.
i think anthony Barr is a guy for 2-3 millon is a Wink guy. can fill a lot of roles.
Suh would give us good DT depth. i think we need DL depth - sheldon richardson, akiem hicks are all quality players for 2-3 million dollars deal that i think we should look at.
i am looking at vet pass rusher, DL, LB, S, CB. if we can get 2-3 of those vets high end ones ill be happy.
id love to bring JPP back. theres some quality FAs out there.
Imo this is where a GM who is smart can scoop up 3-4 players on smaller deals. some at 1-2 million event. a lot of these players will be key contributors on winning teams. who will get them?
agree - hes a guy id place high. not comfortable with aaron robinson starting at #2 CB.
most of these vets would fill backup mentoring roles like a vet CB, LB, DL, pass rusher, S.
only place i would see a guy who could come in and start is at CB over ARob and maybe DL/NT (where we have a vet). Barr would start at LB perhaps.
the only positions id like to see a clear upgrade is RB - justin jackson is instantly seeing 20 plays a day with us no brainer there.
1) He may not want to come to a franchise who isn’t winning the Super Bowl on a low veteran deal
2) He might be cooked. The guy has been playing forever.
How quickly we forget that pushing a team right up against the cap before the season even starts usually results in having to restructure deals to make cap space- which hurts you down the road.
Odd, considering many things went spectacularly wrong last year that people want to repeat the same mistakes…
How quickly we forget that pushing a team right up against the cap before the season even starts usually results in having to restructure deals to make cap space- which hurts you down the road.
Odd, considering many things went spectacularly wrong last year that people want to repeat the same mistakes…
these are 1-3 million dollar deal. vet mins you can snag some of these. this is not big money deals.....minimal restructures.
How quickly we forget that pushing a team right up against the cap before the season even starts usually results in having to restructure deals to make cap space- which hurts you down the road.
Odd, considering many things went spectacularly wrong last year that people want to repeat the same mistakes…
Im with this...let them play, see if someone steps up and surprises. Let the team develop together and see what happens.
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They don’t have enough cap space as it is.
How quickly we forget that pushing a team right up against the cap before the season even starts usually results in having to restructure deals to make cap space- which hurts you down the road.
Odd, considering many things went spectacularly wrong last year that people want to repeat the same mistakes…
these are 1-3 million dollar deal. vet mins you can snag some of these. this is not big money deals.....minimal restructures.
Missing the point or perhaps a fundamental lack of knowledge about how the cap works.
Right now, only the top 51 salaries count against the cap, but when the season arrives, ALL players on the roster count. That means that EVEN IF they are “minimum salaries”, the team is still adding several million to their cap unless they find additional savings. Right now, Slayton’s $2.5M is the only obvious cut- and that only gives a little breathing space.
Every player who gets injured, except for injury settlements, will still have that salary count against the cap- meaning other players must be added to replace them.
THAT was a major failing last year- the team opened the season right at the camp limits- and when injuries happened, they had to do damaging restructures- such as Shepard.
The team does not want to do that again, because it only extends the financial pain that will still come next off-season, when other bloated contracts are cut away.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and expecting different results. This kind of magical thinking sunk the cap last year AND handcuffed the team in the off-season. Time to face reality and deal with what is on the roster, not engaging in wishful thinking.
This team is NOT going to be competitive this year- take the lumps and the likely 4-5 wins and look for incremental improvements.
a competent FO and coaching staff should be able to field a .500ish team.
also, you realize when you replace the 53rd contract
it will remove the old one. the additional money is the difference between the salaries. it is not additional in total. so upgrading a position of weakness for a cpl hundred grand is not a cardinal sin. Good teams are constantly looking to upgrade the bottom of the roster.
I want to see the young guys play, too, but they should earn it, noy be given by default with nothing behind them
a competent FO and coaching staff should be able to field a .500ish team.
also, you realize when you replace the 53rd contract
it will remove the old one. the additional money is the difference between the salaries. it is not additional in total. so upgrading a position of weakness for a cpl hundred grand is not a cardinal sin. Good teams are constantly looking to upgrade the bottom of the roster.
I want to see the young guys play, too, but they should earn it, noy be given by default with nothing behind them
Love this idea. We desperately need a vet presence at corner. Outside of Jackson they are all very young plus can rely on Jackson to play 17 games? Highly unlikely.
Why would you want to build anything else? Why would you settle for anything less than a team that's in the hunt every year?
Is the Secondary problematic? Undoubtedly. So are a lot of other things that will have to be addressed next offseason, and quite possibly the offseason after that. You don't build a contender overnight, especially not with a team that has as many questions that need to be answered as the Giants have. Let's stop with the band-aids and build for the future...a future where the Giants are continually playoff bound.
He may not get cut but may have to take a pay cut. Hes clearly 4th or 5th on the depth chart making $2.5 mil. Most 4th or 5th guys make less than $1 mil so it would be a $1.5 mil savings. Hes most likely the odd man out at WR unless he can get his rookie magic back.
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In comment 15716899 rich in DC said:
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They don’t have enough cap space as it is.
How quickly we forget that pushing a team right up against the cap before the season even starts usually results in having to restructure deals to make cap space- which hurts you down the road.
Odd, considering many things went spectacularly wrong last year that people want to repeat the same mistakes…
these are 1-3 million dollar deal. vet mins you can snag some of these. this is not big money deals.....minimal restructures.
Missing the point or perhaps a fundamental lack of knowledge about how the cap works.
Right now, only the top 51 salaries count against the cap, but when the season arrives, ALL players on the roster count. That means that EVEN IF they are “minimum salaries”, the team is still adding several million to their cap unless they find additional savings. Right now, Slayton’s $2.5M is the only obvious cut- and that only gives a little breathing space.
Every player who gets injured, except for injury settlements, will still have that salary count against the cap- meaning other players must be added to replace them.
THAT was a major failing last year- the team opened the season right at the camp limits- and when injuries happened, they had to do damaging restructures- such as Shepard.
The team does not want to do that again, because it only extends the financial pain that will still come next off-season, when other bloated contracts are cut away.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and expecting different results. This kind of magical thinking sunk the cap last year AND handcuffed the team in the off-season. Time to face reality and deal with what is on the roster, not engaging in wishful thinking.
This team is NOT going to be competitive this year- take the lumps and the likely 4-5 wins and look for incremental improvements.
THIS. Rich is spot on. Nobody else can be signed. Roll with what you've got and supplement with cuts, rookies, UDFAs, street free agents, etc. It's bottom of the barrel from here on out. Medicine taking time is here. More players will have to be their contracts renegotiates in order to get through the season once the Top 51 rule is no longer in effect in about three months.
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when it's not your ass on the line. Sure, daboll probably won't get fired this year but he starts year 2 on the gallows. the NFL is not a patient place, nor should it be. This idea of a 3 year rebuild is utter nonsense, unless you mean building a superbowl contender.
Why would you want to build anything else? Why would you settle for anything less than a team that's in the hunt every year?
Is the Secondary problematic? Undoubtedly. So are a lot of other things that will have to be addressed next offseason, and quite possibly the offseason after that. You don't build a contender overnight, especially not with a team that has as many questions that need to be answered as the Giants have. Let's stop with the band-aids and build for the future...a future where the Giants are continually playoff bound.
You're missing his point. Of course you want a contender,
Building a Superbowl contender could take three years, but pulling the team out of the gutter should happen much more quickly if they have made the right hires.
We aren't making the playoffs this year and I would rather fill out the roster with young guys than re-treads
Right now OTC estimates the Giants are 6.44M below the top 51 off season cap (based on all the transactions we know of this looks accurate).
On opening day all 53 rostered players (plus anyone on IR, PUP).
Right now adding the 52/53rd players, the Giants would be ~4.75M under the cap.
They also have the impending ruling on Logan Ryan’s grievance, that could subtract another 1.8M. Less a few 100K from the next impact of the few rookies left unsigned.
The Giants effectively have about 3M in free space right now.
Slayton and Gates deals looming.
Right now OTC estimates the Giants are 6.44M below the top 51 off season cap (based on all the transactions we know of this looks accurate).
On opening day all 53 rostered players (plus anyone on IR, PUP).
Right now adding the 52/53rd players, the Giants would be ~4.75M under the cap.
They also have the impending ruling on Logan Ryan’s grievance, that could subtract another 1.8M. Less a few 100K from the next impact of the few rookies left unsigned.
The Giants effectively have about 3M in free space right now.
With several more draft picks to sign. A lot of that $3M will vanish very quickly once that happens.
Ezeudu - $1,049,186
Flott - $997,027
Bellinger - $938,420
Belton - $935,882
When they are signed, they will knock the bottom four guys off the top 51. Each of the them make 895,000.
So the Giants will add 3.92M when they are signed, but 3.58M will move off. So the net effect should be 340K.
1. Chuck Clark - Ravens beats have his spot very tenuous and expect either a post June 1 trade or maybe even be a cut. I think someone will want to trade for that contract bc it's team friendly but he may be looking for an extension on top of it (which would still be team friendly). His current 2 years cover his a27 and a28 seasons, for Wink he'd be a lot like adding a younger/cheaper version of what Logan Ryan was for Graham. If the nyg get him he'd most likely be a swap with Slayton.
2. Kyle Fuller - he's had a weird career that's yo-yo'd between very good and not good but he's durable and has the long arms for outside work no nyg currently has. he's 30 but on a 1 year deal he has the most upside so why not roll the dice and hope he has a good year to bring back a comp pick next year. If the young DBs are good enough to push him out of the lineup and he plays well you can flip him at the deadline and it's a free draft pick. No idea what the cost would be but obviously this only works if he is under the $3m range suggested in the OP. If not I'd swap Kevin King in here, who is a few years younger but never been as good as Fuller. I wouldn't hate Jimmy Smith as sort of a Sam Madison 2006 but there'd be minimal future upside so i'd rather go with 1 of the other 2.
in terms of cap Christian is correct that they need to create probably $5m more in general but i dont think that will be a big issue. I think they've left William's contract untouched to date knowing they will use it to get them over the hump with whatever they need for this season once they have a better idea of that (post-Ryan grievance). I think they will do some other moves earlier in camp that can save them $2-3m total (add a year on with Gates, move Slayton, cut Ximines) and at the end of camp assuming they feel good about Williams they will convert some of his salary to bonus. Advance $9m of his salary in a bonus saves about 4-5m off the cap (borrowed from next year). Hopefully whatever extra space they create they don't need and carry over any way. Especially if they deal off any vets at the deadline.
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In comment 15716960 dancing blue bear said:
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when it's not your ass on the line. Sure, daboll probably won't get fired this year but he starts year 2 on the gallows. the NFL is not a patient place, nor should it be. This idea of a 3 year rebuild is utter nonsense, unless you mean building a superbowl contender.
Why would you want to build anything else? Why would you settle for anything less than a team that's in the hunt every year?
Is the Secondary problematic? Undoubtedly. So are a lot of other things that will have to be addressed next offseason, and quite possibly the offseason after that. You don't build a contender overnight, especially not with a team that has as many questions that need to be answered as the Giants have. Let's stop with the band-aids and build for the future...a future where the Giants are continually playoff bound.
You're missing his point. Of course you want a contender,
Building a Superbowl contender could take three years, but pulling the team out of the gutter should happen much more quickly if they have made the right hires.
That type of thinking has led to ten-plus years of futility and disappointment. It shouldn't matter how quickly you get out of the gutter. What should matter is that you get out the right way, and that your emergence is sustainable in the long-term.
Is Jones the long-term answer at QB? If not, do we try and draft his replacement or look for an upgrade in free agency and pay that price? Do we hold onto Williams, Golladay, Barkley, Lawrence...whomever...or move on? Do you want to build primarily through the draft? That's going to take more than one, and you just hope that you hit on the majority of your picks.
Winning now should not be the goal. Building for the future and not repeating the mistakes of the past are what should be.
no team turns into a SB contender without a good coach.
very few good coaches sit in the basement for a few years and then breakout. that's just not how it happens.
good coaches tend to make an impact right away, not necessarily winning record or playoffs but they field competitive teams. the jury is still out on how good of a coach he was but Flores went in and won 7, 10, 9 games with a roster he took over in as bad of shape as possible.
I think you can brick in/out a vet corner with Slayton.
Golladay and Rudolph were both players financially we'd be better off not having had signed.
i don't think it's easy to distinguish talent level from record. was any team the last 4 years less talented than the team Flores won 7 games with in 2019 and beat the Pats w/ Brady to cost them a bye week? No chance. The team on the field in that game might have set a record for most starters that had ever been on practice squads just a few weeks earlier. and yet this org hasn't even won 7 games since 2016.
if jerry reese hired McVay or McDermott instead of mcdoosh he'd still be GM.
if gettleman hired Vrabel or Reich, or if Mara ponied up for Gruden, the last 4 years also go a lot differently.
even stefanski or rivera 2 years ago changes things too. the redskins in particular have had about 7 or 8 different QBs in the 2 years, the worst owner in a sport of bad owners, and yet he's won 7 games each year.
good coaches don't tend to lose 12+ games. in 15 years sean payton never won less than 7. all of the coaches i listed above who have been hired post-2016 combined have just 1 season under 7 wins (mcdermott 6-10 year 2).
no amount of talent acquisition would have outkicked the poor coaching hires they made and the same is true now for schoen if daboll isn't the right guy.
Unless I'm mistaken, Haden is much more of a zone CB than a M2M CB. Just adding guys to the depth chart is useless if they don't fit the scheme.
also possibly a sign Clark is indeed on the move.
Currently, they have about enough cap to make it through the season. They'll have to get creative to add anything more than minimum deals.
the nyg didn't sign anyone else from that point forward for more than a VSB. so in theory, there was some amount likely in the 2-3m range they had a plan to accommodate had Carter taken whatever deal they offered.
with hindsight i think im most surprised they didn't sign Deshon Elliot or Tavon Young for slightly more than a VSB.