How can you hate on Gets? Yeah he should go because he never built a team. But if all those guys are solid starters for 7 or 8 yrs. Those are some real gems Getty got.
I feel people put too much of the failure on Getty and not enough on other parts of the front office. Like ownership and the coaches they brought in.
First, Gettleman didnt draft Robinson.
Second, you are talking about him hitting on 2 rounds of draft picks over 4 years....thats it.
Was this discussion really something that you needed insight on? No offense, but DG was about as bad a GM as you can imagine and we dhould all hate him. Hell, even with those successful picks, lo9k at our cap now. He was criminally bad.
Im not even going to list the misses, but Jonathan Stewart, Nate Solder were two ABYSSMAL signings. That one Guard we got from Jax and was cut midseason. His coaching hires. Spending all that money in '20. He made two decent moves: the Odell trade and the trade in the draft last year. Other than that, he broke even, or (more likely) lost big time.
He should have been fired in December so that he could be ridden out on a rail by Giants fans for what he did to this team.
Ahhhh gotcha.
As much as Giants fans want to absolutely crucify the guy the jury is still out on his draft picks.
And if you're a real NY Giants fan you're rooting for him to be right not wrong.
As much as Giants fans want to absolutely crucify the guy the jury is still out on his draft picks.
And if you're a real NY Giants fan you're rooting for him to be right not wrong.
This may be, but it really isnt looking too good for Barkley and Jones to survive their rookie contracts. That would be 3 1st rounders out of 4 in 2 years to not survive their rookie contract. Throw in Ximenes, Carter, Hill, Lauletta, Peart and Hernandez and that is a lot of suck in rounds 1-3 (I know Lauletta was the 4th).
As much as Giants fans want to absolutely crucify the guy the jury is still out on his draft picks.
And if you're a real NY Giants fan you're rooting for him to be right not wrong.
No, if you are a real Giants fan, you recognize the absolute lack of talent that was left on this roster when the regime change happened. You also recognize that this team is not going to be competitive no matter how well Daboll coaches or how well Jones/Barkley play.
There isn’t enough talent to field 11 starters one defense who can consistently be competitive with the other team’s offense- and its the same story on offense.
They have done a good job getting what appear to be solid building blocks for the future, but there are not enough of them on the roster yet. This was never going to be a one year turnaround. This is a 2-3 year effort.
I agree. Baker was a terrible pick but he definitely has some hits in his drafts. He was horrible at pretty much everything else though... lol
Think about his draft hauls-
Barkley- I'm as big of a Saquon fan as anyone here, but it looks like he missed on a #2 overall by taking a devalued position (and a guy at a position that is subject to injury due to the amount of hits a RB takes)
DJ- The early returns on Jones at #6 would signal that he missed badly on that pick.
Hernandez early round 2- LOL.
Thomas- looks good, but DG had top pick from a strong OT crop. Would hope he hit on that pick.
Toney- hasn't proven that he can stay on the field, hasn't proven to be a dependable player. Good talent...we'll see.
Ojulari- put up good numbers last year, but I'd like to see him win more reps. He's not a guy that generated consistent pressure as a rookie but defintiely shows signs of being a good pass rusher. But I don't see him as a future pro bowler.
Lawrence- good player, probably would go in the 2nd round if they redrafted his class. So not a miss, but can't say he nailed this pick either.
Robinson- haven't seen anything from him yet. He is starter by default, and thats because DG put this team in an absolutely catastrophic financial position.
McKinney- homerun pick at the time and has the makings of a top FS. I'll give him credit.
So he's hit a few early rounders, and a couple of others that show flashes, but again he had a ton of early picks. The return on the draft capital he's had isn't great- not Mayock level bad, but not great. Add in the fact that he whiffed on just about every pick outside of the first 2 rounds, and traded away the only 3rd round pick he hit on for a backup center.
And the mismanagement of the cap, the whiffs in FA on guys like Solder, Omameh, Stewart, Ogletree (trade), Golladay, Ryan (re-signing him was an awful move), Glennon (thinking he was the answer backup Jones was a huge mistake), Rudolph, etc
Can't believe we are having this discussion..
Jones may have been a laughing stock of a pick, but the bigger laughing stock by far was the supporting cast the Giants sent him out on the field with most Sundays each of the past two seasons.
Can you email Fmic and tell him to mail you his Dave Gettleman Fan Club jacket and President’s pin. He doesn’t seem to be using them anyway and this thread makes you the likely successor...
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Also there's always ya know.. Jones/Barkley.
As much as Giants fans want to absolutely crucify the guy the jury is still out on his draft picks.
And if you're a real NY Giants fan you're rooting for him to be right not wrong.
No, if you are a real Giants fan, you recognize the absolute lack of talent that was left on this roster when the regime change happened. You also recognize that this team is not going to be competitive no matter how well Daboll coaches or how well Jones/Barkley play.
There isn’t enough talent to field 11 starters one defense who can consistently be competitive with the other team’s offense- and its the same story on offense.
They have done a good job getting what appear to be solid building blocks for the future, but there are not enough of them on the roster yet. This was never going to be a one year turnaround. This is a 2-3 year effort.
are you responding to my post. Cause you didn't.
As much as Giants fans want to absolutely crucify the guy the jury is still out on his draft picks.
And if you're a real NY Giants fan you're rooting for him to be right not wrong.
If you’re a real a NY Giants fan then you were rooting to move on from him ASAP and pray that there is something/anything to salvage from his four years of being a moron GM...
Top picks in every round since he got here...they had pick of the litter - this is Detroit Lions levels of inept drafting.
Sorry no pass here.
[Exit, pursued by a crowd of enraged Lions fans.]
The GM’s job is to build a winning team. Bequeathing a few good players might remove Gettleman from consideration for “Second-worst GM in NFL history.” That’s as far as my personal reassessment would go. It’s not as though he set up the next regime for immediate success.
4 years is more than enough time to improve a team. He hasnt yet had that big hit, maybe some will pan out down the line but he had some really big misses.
The best thing he left us with was the extra 1st rounder.
To top it off he was a condescending asshole. I think that is why people don't like him.
FOH
FOH
It's far, far worse than that. Here are just a few things that come to mind...
(1) He took a team that we all considered poorly run under Jerry Reese and somehow managed to make the situation much worse in just four years.
(2) He hired two coaches that were fired after just two years.
(3) He made a series of front office hires/promotions that have had to be undone as soon as he was fired (Chris Pettit was just one, but there were a number of others who Schoen just let go).
(4) His two defining draft picks - the #2 overall pick spent on Barkley and the #6 spent on the "franchise" QB - look like huge mistakes.
(5) His teams won 19 games in four years (an average of less than 5 a season) with the seasons being over by October.
(6) Despite being one of the worst teams in the NFL during that time span, he left the Giants in salary cap hell. Quite an accomplishment when you consider Daniel Jones is on his rookie deal.
Gettleman arguably will go down as one of the worst GMs in New York sports history.
But yeah maybe those 5 guys will be good.
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In comment 15716914 Rory said:
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Also there's always ya know.. Jones/Barkley.
As much as Giants fans want to absolutely crucify the guy the jury is still out on his draft picks.
And if you're a real NY Giants fan you're rooting for him to be right not wrong.
No, if you are a real Giants fan, you recognize the absolute lack of talent that was left on this roster when the regime change happened. You also recognize that this team is not going to be competitive no matter how well Daboll coaches or how well Jones/Barkley play.
There isn’t enough talent to field 11 starters one defense who can consistently be competitive with the other team’s offense- and its the same story on offense.
They have done a good job getting what appear to be solid building blocks for the future, but there are not enough of them on the roster yet. This was never going to be a one year turnaround. This is a 2-3 year effort.
are you responding to my post. Cause you didn't.
Read it again.
Thread winner, LOL
When a Gm drafts the wrong QB it won't end well for that GM. DG is going to be defined by Daniel Jones.
If Jones pulls a rabbit out of hat this season and turns his career around, it's going to be hilarious here. It's a long shot, by I do like that Daboll is structuring things around a mantra of be more aggressive. Jones, right or wrong, was neutered by Judge. Clearly.
Takes me back to Dave Brown and Reeves. Brown got another shot under a more loosely wound and open minded offensive guy in Fassel and it didn't matter in the end. Let's see how this act goes.
When a Gm drafts the wrong QB it won't end well for that GM. DG is going to be defined by Daniel Jones.
If Jones pulls a rabbit out of hat this season and turns his career around, it's going to be hilarious here. It's a long shot, by I do like that Daboll is structuring things around a mantra of be more aggressive. Jones, right or wrong, was neutered by Judge. Clearly.
Takes me back to Dave Brown and Reeves. Brown got another shot under a more loosely wound and open minded offensive guy in Fassel and it didn't matter in the end. Let's see how this act goes.
He wasn't worth $72 million. He still isn't. He would have to go on an all-time season rampage to justify the contract at this point.
by next year it will probably be out of the top 20 though so i do think Daboll would be smart to try to feature him as much as possible early because if they can start him on that track he may be tradeable if they eat some $.
As much as Giants fans want to absolutely crucify the guy the jury is still out on his draft picks.
And if you're a real NY Giants fan you're rooting for him to be right not wrong.
Cut the bullshit with the "real NY Giants fan" nonsense. If you're a real NY Giants fan, you don't want to waste entire rookie QB contracts and watch your team be the fucking laughingstock of the league for half a decade.
But I guess if you're the laughingstock of BBI, it probably feels familiar - right, Rory?
by next year it will probably be out of the top 20 though so i do think Daboll would be smart to try to feature him as much as possible early because if they can start him on that track he may be tradeable if they eat some $.
He wasn't paid $72 million to just have one Pro Bowl season.
His season last year was absolutely dreadful... rookie UDFA level bad.
If he has a Pro Bowl season in 2022, the contract is still a failure.
No GM gets a “Margin for Disaster”. That’s what Gettleman would have needed. And he got way more latitude than he deserved.
Im curious as to how many GMs can honestly be comsidered WORSE than DG. Scott Layden and Phil Jackson?
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But I think the situation he voluntarily walked into made him look even worse. There was zero margin for error.
Disagree. The margin for error in 2018 was huge, but he burned much of it on the “Last Dance with Eli” strategy. If the mandate to win with Eli was part of the “situation he voluntarily walked into”, he still owns it for volunteering when he should have told Mara it was impossible.
No GM gets a “Margin for Disaster”. That’s what Gettleman would have needed. And he got way more latitude than he deserved.
It’s not about a “margin for disaster.” Some situations are better than others just like any other job.
The Carolina job for example was a much better situation — established coach with some talent on the roster. He did ok there.
Here, he had no coach, very limited talent, and a jacked up cap situation. Hence the no margin for error comment. He needed to hit on his FAs and nail the draft to turn it around. He did neither and he got canned.
His UFA's were horrendous overall and have put us in "cap hell" for this year at a minimum.
But he never developed an OL and our offense paid dearly.
Also reading comprehension skills seem not to hold well these days do they.
So with all the backlash to my post its safe to assume you guys are rooting against any draft pick DG brought here. Is that it?
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Also there's always ya know.. Jones/Barkley.
As much as Giants fans want to absolutely crucify the guy the jury is still out on his draft picks.
And if you're a real NY Giants fan you're rooting for him to be right not wrong.
Cut the bullshit with the "real NY Giants fan" nonsense. If you're a real NY Giants fan, you don't want to waste entire rookie QB contracts and watch your team be the fucking laughingstock of the league for half a decade.
But I guess if you're the laughingstock of BBI, it probably feels familiar - right, Rory?
lol sure pal.
Dave Gettleman as general manager of the New York Football Giants was the worst GM in the last 25 years.
He won 19 games in 4 seasons.
I don't care what happens, Gettleman sucked.
So you think Gettleman did a good job? I literally have no idea how anyone could defend that clown.
thats it! someone finally has some intelligence understands the context of my response.
proves my point too, the hatred for DG is so strong that you can't make rational evaluations.
Love it.
Don't you just love that too?
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Nobody is rooting against Gettleman’s acquisitions - not the ones who remain with the team. I’ll be thrilled if Barkley, Jones, Thomas, Toney, Golladay, Jackson, Ojulari, Williams, Lawrence, et.al. lead the Giants to multiple championships. I might not give Dave Gettleman much of the credit, but the fact that his acquisitions played a role won’t dim my enjoyment a bit.
thats it! someone finally has some intelligence understands the context of my response.
proves my point too, the hatred for DG is so strong that you can't make rational evaluations.
Love it.
Im not trying to gang up here.....but what otherrational evaluations are you looking for? Hes hit on 5/6 picks out of h9w many during his 5 years here. Martinez was a decent FA signing. LW is getting paid to be a top 5 Interior lineman in the NFL and I think he is that....I also didnt mind giving up the pick like so many people did (although when you see the contract he got they could have just signed him) but nobody saw his 2020 coming, so maybe if we dont trade for him he does that with another team.
But what else? He didnt just make "meh" moves, he made really BAD moves....net negative moves....9ver and over again and he was allowed to exit with dignitiy.
If I were Mara, I would have dumped the free Pepsi he gave himself for being a fan over DG's head and had a cardboard box with his lotions and shit from his office the last time he did a press conference.
Gettleman was TERRIBLE and he was a terrible person while doing it.
We won 19 games in 4 years, he walked in and promised a fixed offensive line, he knew what it looked like and he would do the work.
He failed.
End of the story.
Also reading comprehension skills seem not to hold well these days do they.
So with all the backlash to my post its safe to assume you guys are rooting against any draft pick DG brought here. Is that it?
This strawman is not real. You are gaslighting because you know your position is indefensible, so you shift to the "well, the only way you can be right is if you are rooting against player X."
In other words, you KNOW you aren't advocating a REAL position- you're just trolling to get attention and run around claiming you're the only true fan.
The clear hole in your stance is that it is generally irrelevant to whether a player is good draft pick or not by looking at whether player X is a good player or not. The key is whether the player drafted is a fit for the team's offensive/defensive scheme so that they can succeed in that role and the team wins games.
It gets overlooked far too often here that DG's primary failure was that not only was the coaching staff unable to define what their scheme was or identify players to fit the alleged scheme, but that he was similarly unable to identify or apply any system to rate players to fit whatever scheme he believed the team was running. Instead, DG ranked players as if he were drafting for a generic team using overall talent rather than fit for the Giants.
Some here has correctly pointed out that a number of Giants draftees have gone on to different teams and been successful there, while they were unsuccessful with the Giants- but then pointed to bad coaching. The problem was correctly identified but the reason was incomplete.
Teams where the coaches and front office are in sync on the team's offensive/defensive schemes, but must still correctly identify the players who fit those schemes and draft/sign FA accordingly. That's the connection that gets lost when posters focus exclusively on the coaching or just the GM- and it matters a great deal in building a team.
I have been posting often here telling people to reign in their hopes for a .500 or better season- saying that a 4-5 win season is more realistic. Why? Because when the new regime took over, their approach to FA and the draft showed that they realized that the players were mismatched and there was no common scheme that they could succeed in. Players had simply been brought in based on perceived talent levels with no assessment of what scheme or role they would succeed or struggle in.
The new regime DOES have a scheme on both offense and defense that they can explain- and the new GM understands it and is ranking and acquiring talent accordingly. Since they were cap poor, they went and grabbed a bunch of Buffalo offensive guys, because they know the scheme already. They drafted based on the player's fit into those schemes.
When the draft took place, many lost their minds on this site precisely because they could not understand or refused to grasp the concept that the scheme fit must be prioritized over perceived talent levels (i.e. "player X is infinitely more talented than player Y, so why did we draft player Y?").
Thus, to get back to the main point- whether DG drafted players who are talented and might pan out is irrelevant. The picks were and will remain failures because DG failed to draft for fit or scheme. He used scout-determined talent levels with no thought for use. Thus, regardless of whether DJ is a top 10 QB or last in the league in results is an debate in futility. The failure is that no one responsible for drafting DJ had any idea of what scheme they were selecting him to run or his fit in it; he was drafted because he was perceived to be more talented than other QBs on the board. Once you use the wrong standard to pick someone, the pick is a failure.
Now, other picks have left the Giants as failures and went on to success elsewhere. Is that an indictment of DG and the coaching for failure to develop? Not really. It was a failure to identify what scheme the team wanted to run, communicate that, and rank players accordingly with the coaching staff being in sync with the front office. Since all of those things failed to happen, the rankings and rationales to select players resulted in a haphazard mix of players not designed to be used together or to their strengths.
It will take several years to dig out of that hole no matter how talented Daboll and his staff are. They have to undo years of assembling the island of misfit toys as a roster and turn it over to become Voltron- a bunch of parts that fit together and work toward a common purpose, with the strengths of each part accentuating the whole unit together. That cannot and does not happen overnight, as it takes planning, trial and error and a slow build to get to the goal.
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triggered by anything related to DG, makes me wonder if you have a life outside of NY Giants football.
Also reading comprehension skills seem not to hold well these days do they.
So with all the backlash to my post its safe to assume you guys are rooting against any draft pick DG brought here. Is that it?
This strawman is not real. You are gaslighting because you know your position is indefensible, so you shift to the "well, the only way you can be right is if you are rooting against player X."
In other words, you KNOW you aren't advocating a REAL position- you're just trolling to get attention and run around claiming you're the only true fan.
The clear hole in your stance is that it is generally irrelevant to whether a player is good draft pick or not by looking at whether player X is a good player or not. The key is whether the player drafted is a fit for the team's offensive/defensive scheme so that they can succeed in that role and the team wins games.
It gets overlooked far too often here that DG's primary failure was that not only was the coaching staff unable to define what their scheme was or identify players to fit the alleged scheme, but that he was similarly unable to identify or apply any system to rate players to fit whatever scheme he believed the team was running. Instead, DG ranked players as if he were drafting for a generic team using overall talent rather than fit for the Giants.
Some here has correctly pointed out that a number of Giants draftees have gone on to different teams and been successful there, while they were unsuccessful with the Giants- but then pointed to bad coaching. The problem was correctly identified but the reason was incomplete.
Teams where the coaches and front office are in sync on the team's offensive/defensive schemes, but must still correctly identify the players who fit those schemes and draft/sign FA accordingly. That's the connection that gets lost when posters focus exclusively on the coaching or just the GM- and it matters a great deal in building a team.
I have been posting often here telling people to reign in their hopes for a .500 or better season- saying that a 4-5 win season is more realistic. Why? Because when the new regime took over, their approach to FA and the draft showed that they realized that the players were mismatched and there was no common scheme that they could succeed in. Players had simply been brought in based on perceived talent levels with no assessment of what scheme or role they would succeed or struggle in.
The new regime DOES have a scheme on both offense and defense that they can explain- and the new GM understands it and is ranking and acquiring talent accordingly. Since they were cap poor, they went and grabbed a bunch of Buffalo offensive guys, because they know the scheme already. They drafted based on the player's fit into those schemes.
When the draft took place, many lost their minds on this site precisely because they could not understand or refused to grasp the concept that the scheme fit must be prioritized over perceived talent levels (i.e. "player X is infinitely more talented than player Y, so why did we draft player Y?").
Thus, to get back to the main point- whether DG drafted players who are talented and might pan out is irrelevant. The picks were and will remain failures because DG failed to draft for fit or scheme. He used scout-determined talent levels with no thought for use. Thus, regardless of whether DJ is a top 10 QB or last in the league in results is an debate in futility. The failure is that no one responsible for drafting DJ had any idea of what scheme they were selecting him to run or his fit in it; he was drafted because he was perceived to be more talented than other QBs on the board. Once you use the wrong standard to pick someone, the pick is a failure.
Now, other picks have left the Giants as failures and went on to success elsewhere. Is that an indictment of DG and the coaching for failure to develop? Not really. It was a failure to identify what scheme the team wanted to run, communicate that, and rank players accordingly with the coaching staff being in sync with the front office. Since all of those things failed to happen, the rankings and rationales to select players resulted in a haphazard mix of players not designed to be used together or to their strengths.
It will take several years to dig out of that hole no matter how talented Daboll and his staff are. They have to undo years of assembling the island of misfit toys as a roster and turn it over to become Voltron- a bunch of parts that fit together and work toward a common purpose, with the strengths of each part accentuating the whole unit together. That cannot and does not happen overnight, as it takes planning, trial and error and a slow build to get to the goal.
Thank you!
Some people saw it happening in real time and were treated like outcasts and told they were bad fans and know-nothing for not hopping on board the bandwagon.
He was awful at everything.
Not everyone can be smart, but some humility would have made it just a little easier to swallow.
We're alive for a finite number of Giants seasons. We love the Giants. Gettleman ruined how many of those seasons? 5 or 6? And it was all glaringly obvious from the 1st time he opened his mouth
Dave Gettleman sucks. Fuck him.
Gettleman actually inherited a great cap situation, the no. 2 overall pick, and got to hire the head coach in 2018. And then had a similar second chance at it in 2020.
He revamped the scouting, and revamped the operations. Hired the computer guys and built the analytics department.
And he literally never spent a single day as GM with a winning record.
If Daboll can salvage a few of Tubby's players, that's Daboll's success.
Some people saw it happening in real time and were treated like outcasts and told they were bad fans and know-nothing for not hopping on board the bandwagon.
When did anyone ever defend this GM?
1) Believers in 37-year-old Eli Manning;
2) Subscribers to hog-molly theories of old-time football;
3) Admirers of tough talk;
4) Reese-haters, especially those who thought Coughlin had been scapegoated.
I’m 0-for-4, so no honeymoon here. And there were other issues too.
I’m 0-for-4, so no honeymoon here. And there were other issues too.
All ears over here on the other issues. I'll never tire of anti-Gettleman material.
It's one thing to be incompetent, but he struck me as a genuinely bad person.
1) Believers in 37-year-old Eli Manning;
2) Subscribers to hog-molly theories of old-time football;
3) Admirers of tough talk;
4) Reese-haters, especially those who thought Coughlin had been scapegoated.
I’m 0-for-4, so no honeymoon here. And there were other issues too.
BBB - I was just being sarcastic.
Yes, there was a silly group of DG defenders on here that a handful of us would go head-to-head with on numerous threads each year. Those chuckleheads are either gone now or tend to innocently type posts from time to time and suggest "Can't we move on at this point, Getts is no longer here...".
Gettleman actually inherited a great cap situation, the no. 2 overall pick, and got to hire the head coach in 2018. And then had a similar second chance at it in 2020.
He revamped the scouting, and revamped the operations. Hired the computer guys and built the analytics department.
And he literally never spent a single day as GM with a winning record.
If Daboll can salvage a few of Tubby's players, that's Daboll's success.
All of this amounted to shuffling deck chairs on the Titantic.
As I explained above, DG had NO idea what the schemes his coaches were trying to implement and they couldn’t explain it either. Thus, no matter how hard you try to defend DG’s actions (computer guys, analytics, scouting hires, etc.), the fact that undermined and made ALL of that irrelevant is that he had NO idea what he was drafting for.
To summarize my earlier post, DG assembled a roster from the Island of Misfit Toys who were and are unable to be used in a single cohesive scheme. Instead, they are a hodgepodge of players drafted solely on their perceived talent level.
What he SHOULD have been doing was drafting Voltron- a group of players whose skills complemented the other players and who when playing in the team’s offensive/defensive scheme, would be a cohesive unit that is stronger than the sum of its parts.
The things you listed are useless and irrelevant without a plan or scheme. Once again, arranging deck chairs on the Titantic.
Understood. If you are willing to type more, my email is terps1978@hotmail.com. If not, no worries. Always enjoy your contributions here.