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Took a break from BBI and reading BBV has different

joe48 : 5/24/2022 3:04 pm
Perspective and tone on Daniel Jones. Much less harsh negativity and more in depth discussion. Fans are much less dug in with their opinions. Not saying there is not good content on BBI just more contentious posting. Just another perspective on Giants as a team.
And highest level of expertise there is what, on a scale of 1-10?  
Racer : 5/24/2022 3:06 pm : link
There's some serious football knowledge around here, its just a matter of filtering through the noise.
There are not that many people here who are 'dug in'  
Mike from Ohio : 5/24/2022 3:37 pm : link
on Daniel Jones. The ones who are typically are the ones who post the most about him.

I would say most of the board would rank him between 15-20 best starting QBs in the league. There are some who think he is top 10 and some that think in the 30s but those are the most vocal minority.
RE: There are not that many people here who are 'dug in'  
HewlettGiant : 5/24/2022 3:54 pm : link
In comment 15717424 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
on Daniel Jones. The ones who are typically are the ones who post the most about him.

I would say most of the board would rank him between 15-20 best starting QBs in the league. There are some who think he is top 10 and some that think in the 30s but those are the most vocal minority.


I will gladly eat humble pie....I don't think he has what it takes, but if he shows me wrong I will admit not seeing it. I root like crazy for him......just what was the last Duke QB that made the play-offs?

I say meh on BBV  
give66 : 5/24/2022 3:56 pm : link
Too many homers on there.
If you can remove  
mittenedman : 5/24/2022 3:57 pm : link
yourself from BBI and look at credible football analysts, most believe an evaluation of Jones is near impossible due to dysfunctional circumstances.
RE: I say meh on BBV  
Route 9 : 5/24/2022 4:02 pm : link
In comment 15717442 give66 said:
Quote:
Too many homers on there.


I agree with this. Same with Facebook groups and all that other stuff. Take it way too personally and without any useful discussions.
I stick with BBI because  
JonC : 5/24/2022 4:06 pm : link
of the relative lack of homers. It's far noisier here than it needs to be, and some are long overdue to take a break from the site. But, the positivity for the sake of it, or positivity while arguing you can't see the future is really blue-colored annoying regardless of which site.
Tried BBV and BigBlueHuddle  
Thegratefulhead : 5/24/2022 4:23 pm : link
I actually post a little at the huddle. There are a couple of people there I do respect quite a bit. It has one mega homer admin though that gets very tiresome, but there are some good people there too.

BBI is better.
Whatever you think about Jones...  
bw in dc : 5/24/2022 4:26 pm : link
you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.

Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.

Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...
Jones has flaws  
OBJ_AllDay : 5/24/2022 4:33 pm : link
and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.
RE: Jones has flaws  
Thegratefulhead : 5/24/2022 4:46 pm : link
In comment 15717485 OBJ_AllDay said:
Quote:
and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.
We all said something like that last year.

Jones is missing the most important thing.

"It"

Great guy, hard worker, good teammate and smart with NFL quality talents.

The Giants are down by 4, 3rd down and 11 on their own 30 yard line, 55 seconds and all 3 timeouts.

Daniel gets the snap, drops back to pass his first read is covered.

How do you feel?

Sick to my stomach, waiting for the failure.

In 3 years there were enough pass attempts from a clean pocket to judge Jones.

RE: RE: Jones has flaws  
OBJ_AllDay : 5/24/2022 4:48 pm : link
In comment 15717490 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 15717485 OBJ_AllDay said:


Quote:


and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.

We all said something like that last year.

Jones is missing the most important thing.

"It"

Great guy, hard worker, good teammate and smart with NFL quality talents.

The Giants are down by 4, 3rd down and 11 on their own 30 yard line, 55 seconds and all 3 timeouts.

Daniel gets the snap, drops back to pass his first read is covered.

How do you feel?

Sick to my stomach, waiting for the failure.

In 3 years there were enough pass attempts from a clean pocket to judge Jones.


I pretty much agree. Damn that first win against Tampa had a lot of us excited about the future too. Do I trust him to lead a game winning drive? Much like yourself, the answer is pretty much "No"
RE: Whatever you think about Jones...  
joe48 : 5/24/2022 4:59 pm : link
In comment 15717474 bw in dc said:
Quote:
you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.

Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.

Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...

There you go. This was not about DJ but if his name is mentioned some of the same have people have got to make a negative comment.
Daniel Jones is likely not an "Elite 8" QB type  
SGMen : 5/24/2022 5:09 pm : link
But how do you truly evaluate him behind this coaching and this OL of the past few years? The injuries around him and to him make it very hard.

But his number "with time" and when Barkley produces are pretty good overall.

I'm going out on a limb here and will say he has a shot at a very good season IF we can pull out early season wins when we are likely going to struggle with the new systems.

I think if he has an "average" OL and healthy wideouts and Barkley he will have a superb year. All are big ifs.
RE: RE: Whatever you think about Jones...  
bw in dc : 5/24/2022 5:29 pm : link
In comment 15717496 joe48 said:
Quote:
In comment 15717474 bw in dc said:


Quote:


you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.

Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.

Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...


There you go. This was not about DJ but if his name is mentioned some of the same have people have got to make a negative comment.


I wouldn't characterize my comments as negative. They are accurate, IMV.

You mentioned Jones in your post and how BBV posters, by and large, have more middle of the road POV on Jones. If you don't want to bring Jones into this, write a more generic comment of BBI v BBV.
RE: There are not that many people here who are 'dug in'  
BSIMatt : 5/24/2022 6:17 pm : link
In comment 15717424 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
on Daniel Jones. The ones who are typically are the ones who post the most about him.

I would say most of the board would rank him between 15-20 best starting QBs in the league. There are some who think he is top 10 and some that think in the 30s but those are the most vocal minority.


I would agree with this.
RE: RE: RE: Whatever you think about Jones...  
Bill in UT : 5/24/2022 6:22 pm : link
In comment 15717509 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15717496 joe48 said:


Quote:


In comment 15717474 bw in dc said:


Quote:


you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.

Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.

Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...


There you go. This was not about DJ but if his name is mentioned some of the same have people have got to make a negative comment.



I wouldn't characterize my comments as negative. They are accurate, IMV.

You mentioned Jones in your post and how BBV posters, by and large, have more middle of the road POV on Jones. If you don't want to bring Jones into this, write a more generic comment of BBI v BBV.

I think your earlier post here belies your statement about not being negative. Count his chances. Year 1 most people think he did well. Year 2 was bad-he showed poor pocket presence and fumbled too often. Year 3, he was not good, but he had a lousy online, decimated receiver corps, and lousy scheme/play calling. And missed 7 games. To me, and others, he deserves this year. But this is it. He needs to stay healthy, stop fumbling, and make the right reads. If not, sayonara
RE: Whatever you think about Jones...  
ZoneXDOA : 5/24/2022 6:39 pm : link
In comment 15717474 bw in dc said:
Quote:
you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.

Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.

Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...
I can absolutely say, with confidence, that Daniel Jones hasn’t gotten enough chances. The only actual chances he got was getting drafted and getting promoted to tackling dummy for opposing defenses. To call years 2 and 3 actual “chances” would be ridiculous. He had zero chance to succeed with the line “protecting” him and very few games with starting caliber weapons on the field with him. This year, we are actually setup to see what the kid can be. I’m not expecting elite. I’m expecting above average with elite potential. If that doesn’t happen? I will at least feel like he got a real chance and moving on would be in the team’s best interest at that point. Or maybe we keep him as a backup. But if it does? That would be awesome for us.
no thanks  
RasputinPrime : 5/24/2022 6:39 pm : link
you can't pay for loyalty but you can give it.
To paraphrase Patrick Henry when it comes to Giants fan websites...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/24/2022 6:53 pm : link
Give me BBI or give me death!
RE: Jones has flaws  
uther99 : 5/24/2022 6:54 pm : link
In comment 15717485 OBJ_AllDay said:
Quote:
and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.


Elite speed? He ran 4.8 40
RE: RE: Jones has flaws  
Jack Stroud : 5/24/2022 6:56 pm : link
In comment 15717490 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 15717485 OBJ_AllDay said:


Quote:


and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.

We all said something like that last year.

Jones is missing the most important thing.

"It"

Great guy, hard worker, good teammate and smart with NFL quality talents.

The Giants are down by 4, 3rd down and 11 on their own 30 yard line, 55 seconds and all 3 timeouts.

Daniel gets the snap, drops back to pass his first read is covered.

How do you feel?

Sick to my stomach, waiting for the failure.

In 3 years there were enough pass attempts from a clean pocket to judge Jones.


Clean pocket we a rare commodity for Jones, add in the fact that his WR's were covered so tight you couldn't get a credit card between them and the DB! I am a fan of his and I believe he will do well, he has to other wise we are looking at another 3 or so years for a new qb to develop.
......  
Route 9 : 5/24/2022 6:56 pm : link
I never take breaks from BBI
I probably fit more into the negative crowd  
Ned In Atlanta : 5/24/2022 7:07 pm : link
I consider myself a homer in recovery. Haven’t missed a game in over twenty years. Love this site. But 3-4 years ago I realized that no amount of optimism can change the reality that the team has sucked for 10 years. I like that there are like minded people who have been beaten down by this team. I disagree with the homers, but I was one in the past so I get it. The mostly civil dialogue on this site is refreshing.
RE: RE: Whatever you think about Jones...  
bw in dc : 5/24/2022 7:10 pm : link
In comment 15717548 ZoneXDOA said:
Quote:
In comment 15717474 bw in dc said:


Quote:


you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.

Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.

Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...

I can absolutely say, with confidence, that Daniel Jones hasn’t gotten enough chances. The only actual chances he got was getting drafted and getting promoted to tackling dummy for opposing defenses. To call years 2 and 3 actual “chances” would be ridiculous. He had zero chance to succeed with the line “protecting” him and very few games with starting caliber weapons on the field with him. This year, we are actually setup to see what the kid can be. I’m not expecting elite. I’m expecting above average with elite potential. If that doesn’t happen? I will at least feel like he got a real chance and moving on would be in the team’s best interest at that point. Or maybe we keep him as a backup. But if it does? That would be awesome for us.


The surrounding talent for Jones certainly hasn't been best in the NFL.

But that doesn't mean Jones still can't be evaluated after his 37 starts. That's a lot of plays and data over that time. And we can look for specific traits to study.

The NFL isn't meant to be comfortable and easy. And the really talented players figure it out and flash enough to give you the confidence that the right decision has been made...
RE: RE: Whatever you think about Jones...  
Blue The Dog : 5/24/2022 7:16 pm : link
In comment 15717548 ZoneXDOA said:
Quote:
In comment 15717474 bw in dc said:


Quote:


you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.

Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.

Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...

I can absolutely say, with confidence, that Daniel Jones hasn’t gotten enough chances. The only actual chances he got was getting drafted and getting promoted to tackling dummy for opposing defenses. To call years 2 and 3 actual “chances” would be ridiculous. He had zero chance to succeed with the line “protecting” him and very few games with starting caliber weapons on the field with him. This year, we are actually setup to see what the kid can be. I’m not expecting elite. I’m expecting above average with elite potential. If that doesn’t happen? I will at least feel like he got a real chance and moving on would be in the team’s best interest at that point. Or maybe we keep him as a backup. But if it does? That would be awesome for us.


You're totally right dude. Could you imagine a young QB with a bad O-line having success and proving that they are a franchise QB? Impossible!

No, I haven't watched any Bengals or Chargers games that past 2 years, why do you ask?
RE: RE: There are not that many people here who are 'dug in'  
k2tampa : 5/24/2022 7:17 pm : link
In comment 15717440 HewlettGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 15717424 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


on Daniel Jones. The ones who are typically are the ones who post the most about him.

I would say most of the board would rank him between 15-20 best starting QBs in the league. There are some who think he is top 10 and some that think in the 30s but those are the most vocal minority.



I will gladly eat humble pie....I don't think he has what it takes, but if he shows me wrong I will admit not seeing it. I root like crazy for him......just what was the last Duke QB that made the play-offs?


Love this logic. Who was the last Ole Miss QB to make the playoffs before Eli? Who was the last Univ. Of Tenn. QB to make the playoffs before Peyton? Who was the last Georgia QB to make the playoffs before Stafford? How many here would take Stroud next year, but who was the last OSU qb to make the playoffs?
RE: RE: RE: Jones has flaws  
Scooter185 : 5/24/2022 7:19 pm : link
In comment 15717569 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
In comment 15717490 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


In comment 15717485 OBJ_AllDay said:


Quote:


and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.

We all said something like that last year.

Jones is missing the most important thing.

"It"

Great guy, hard worker, good teammate and smart with NFL quality talents.

The Giants are down by 4, 3rd down and 11 on their own 30 yard line, 55 seconds and all 3 timeouts.

Daniel gets the snap, drops back to pass his first read is covered.

How do you feel?

Sick to my stomach, waiting for the failure.

In 3 years there were enough pass attempts from a clean pocket to judge Jones.




Clean pocket we a rare commodity for Jones, add in the fact that his WR's were covered so tight you couldn't get a credit card between them and the DB! I am a fan of his and I believe he will do well, he has to other wise we are looking at another 3 or so years for a new qb to develop.


We aren't waiting 3 years for another QB to develop. If JS and BD are good at their jobs the QB they draft is going to step right in, mayyyyyyybe sit 1 year at most like we've seen around the league recently.
RE: RE: Jones has flaws  
kinard : 5/24/2022 8:15 pm : link
In comment 15717490 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 15717485 OBJ_AllDay said:


Quote:


and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.

We all said something like that last year.

Jones is missing the most important thing.

"It"

Great guy, hard worker, good teammate and smart with NFL quality talents.

The Giants are down by 4, 3rd down and 11 on their own 30 yard line, 55 seconds and all 3 timeouts.

Daniel gets the snap, drops back to pass his first read is covered.

How do you feel?

Sick to my stomach, waiting for the failure.

In 3 years there were enough pass attempts from a clean pocket to judge Jones.


I feel like he's gonna get sacked because our offensive line suck
RE: RE: RE: Whatever you think about Jones...  
Johnny5 : 5/24/2022 8:27 pm : link
In comment 15717586 Blue The Dog said:
Quote:
In comment 15717548 ZoneXDOA said:


Quote:


In comment 15717474 bw in dc said:


Quote:


you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.

Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.

Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...

I can absolutely say, with confidence, that Daniel Jones hasn’t gotten enough chances. The only actual chances he got was getting drafted and getting promoted to tackling dummy for opposing defenses. To call years 2 and 3 actual “chances” would be ridiculous. He had zero chance to succeed with the line “protecting” him and very few games with starting caliber weapons on the field with him. This year, we are actually setup to see what the kid can be. I’m not expecting elite. I’m expecting above average with elite potential. If that doesn’t happen? I will at least feel like he got a real chance and moving on would be in the team’s best interest at that point. Or maybe we keep him as a backup. But if it does? That would be awesome for us.



You're totally right dude. Could you imagine a young QB with a bad O-line having success and proving that they are a franchise QB? Impossible!

No, I haven't watched any Bengals or Chargers games that past 2 years, why do you ask?

I haven't watched the Chargers enough but comparing the Giants to the Bengals is, well... dumb.
It wasn't that dumb when they had the worst OL in football  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/24/2022 8:58 pm : link
That got their franchise QB put out for a torn ACL.

RE: It wasn't that dumb when they had the worst OL in football  
Johnny5 : 5/24/2022 9:00 pm : link
In comment 15717662 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
That got their franchise QB put out for a torn ACL.

Yep. You are right. You got me. Joe Burrow on the 2021 Giants takes us to the big show.

Yeppers.
Wait a secin’  
trueblueinpw : 5/24/2022 9:02 pm : link
There’s another website for Giants fans?
RE: RE: It wasn't that dumb when they had the worst OL in football  
BSIMatt : 5/24/2022 9:32 pm : link
In comment 15717664 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 15717662 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


That got their franchise QB put out for a torn ACL.



Yep. You are right. You got me. Joe Burrow on the 2021 Giants takes us to the big show.

Yeppers.


As long as we get Chase, Mixon, Higgins and Uzomah….
RE: RE: RE: Whatever you think about Jones...  
BSIMatt : 5/24/2022 9:46 pm : link
In comment 15717586 Blue The Dog said:
Quote:
In comment 15717548 ZoneXDOA said:


Quote:


In comment 15717474 bw in dc said:


Quote:


you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.

Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.

Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...

I can absolutely say, with confidence, that Daniel Jones hasn’t gotten enough chances. The only actual chances he got was getting drafted and getting promoted to tackling dummy for opposing defenses. To call years 2 and 3 actual “chances” would be ridiculous. He had zero chance to succeed with the line “protecting” him and very few games with starting caliber weapons on the field with him. This year, we are actually setup to see what the kid can be. I’m not expecting elite. I’m expecting above average with elite potential. If that doesn’t happen? I will at least feel like he got a real chance and moving on would be in the team’s best interest at that point. Or maybe we keep him as a backup. But if it does? That would be awesome for us.



You're totally right dude. Could you imagine a young QB with a bad O-line having success and proving that they are a franchise QB? Impossible!

No, I haven't watched any Bengals or Chargers games that past 2 years, why do you ask?


So, there are 2 sides to the coin when it comes to supporting cast. There’s the oline, then the weapons surrounding the QB. Giants problems have extended well beyond the line. It became the Barkley offense once we shipped Beckham. We replace Beckham with Golden Tate and Slayton. We essentially had an offense where Barkley was the threat…and basically jags beyond that. Thought this was one area that was going to be improved in 2021 as the season wore on..on paper it was. Then injuries took care of the rest. 2020 was the worst collection of offensive talent I’ve seen on Giants offense, and somehow with injuries taking players away left and right the Giants managed to score even less in 2021. Comparing Mike Williams, Keenan Allen, and Austin Ekler to what the Giants trotted out the past 2 years is downright fucking laughable. Echo those sentiments for any delusional Giants fans making Bengals comparisons. Their starting skill players would be starting in NY. If you are gonna compare quarterbacks, please do your homework.
How well did Mahomes play against Tampa  
kelly : 5/24/2022 9:48 pm : link
When his line stunk.

Or Brady against Ny in the Superbowls when we had pass rush.

No quarterback is good when the O line stinks.

Name me the quarterback who is consistently good behind a shit o line?

I can't think of a single one.
The point of that  
BSIMatt : 5/24/2022 10:02 pm : link
Is yes, you don’t need a brick wall fortress of an offensive line to win in playoffs, or even make the playoffs. You can win with an offensive line that has some issues..provided you have a group of 3 skill players who can repeated win early.

This idea was brought up during KCs Super Bowl loss against Tampa. The initial idea was that KC lost because they lost Fisher in afc championship and were suddenly paper thin at OT against one of the batter pass rushing fronts in football. The other side to the argument was that teams can manage such pressure if they have enough targets on routes getting open. That a team usually handles this best when they have 3 strong receiving targets that can consistently win on their routes and make a play. That other teams can scheme enough to make it very difficult to get your top 2 options going so if you can get to that 3rd option and win you can still find success. KC was having Hill and Kelce locked up, and with Watkins banged up they could not make Tampa pay for cheating on those 2. Tampa was the polar opposite, they went very deep on targets, 4-5 viable threats Brady could get to, harder to cheat, and even with pressure there’s a good chance the QB can find the guy with the best matchup. A version of this scenario played out in 2011, when the Giants had their trifecta at WR and were able to threaten teams despite a sub par oline. Even in the Super Bowl with BB saying it’s still a Nicks and Cruz game on the sideline the Giants knew they had a matchup problem in their 3rd WR and that fact revealed itself on the highlight play of the game to Super Mario.

So yeah, you can win with a subpar oline and a bevy of weapons….neither Herbert or Burrow would be taking the Giants to the super bowl or playoffs in 2021 because the Giants had neither.
RE: RE: It wasn't that dumb when they had the worst OL in football  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/24/2022 10:33 pm : link
In comment 15717664 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 15717662 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


That got their franchise QB put out for a torn ACL.



Yep. You are right. You got me. Joe Burrow on the 2021 Giants takes us to the big show.

Yeppers.

Half the country laughed at the Bengals for taking a WR over a lineman. I was one of them laughing. That Bengals team was atrocious until Burrow and Chase lifted them up. Mixon didn't fall out of the sky like an angel. He's been there since 2017. CJ Uzomah has been in the NFL since 2015. The team wasn't good. Burrow and Chase lifted them, as stars do.

they have two overwhelming talents on the offensive end to offset a terrible offensive line that couldnt keep the QB healthy. Now they're adding to the OL but it was awful. It cost their franchise QB a season and thankfully there was no long term damage.

There were more links to the Bengals than people care to admit. The difference is the Giants haven't hit on the rare franchise- altering player and the Bengals found two guys like that.

Who cares whether jones has or hasn’t  
djm : 5/24/2022 11:12 pm : link
Gotten enough chances? Point is he’s getting another one.

Some good qbs needed a lot of time before they took off and they all struggled early for more than one specific reason. No qb is created equal. No situation is the same.

Jones is getting another chance because the 3rd staff to coach him feels he’s worth the time and effort. That’s all that matters at this point.

Maybe the coaching is better and maybe the talent is better around Jones. Maybe he needed four years and maybe five years from now we’re all acknowledging that it took a lot of bad things to hinder things and a lot of good things to help Jones win.

Or maybe he washes out and is benched or hurt by November. I’m happy that this staff is focusing more on playmaking and less on mistakes. I feel like Jim fassel came in here with a similar feel and approach and it helped lead the giant out of the last dreadful phase they were in.
People say you can't evaluate Jones with this OL  
Go Terps : 5/24/2022 11:17 pm : link
How can you evaluate the OL when they're blocking for a QB as good as Jones? People are comfortable evaluating Evan Engram; how can you evaluate him when Jones was his QB?

Gettleman fucked everything else up, but he got Jones right?

Jones is getting miles of leash while everyone else gets none. Never made sense.
As has been pointed out repeatedly....  
Greg from LI : 5/24/2022 11:19 pm : link
Expecting Daniel Jones to magically blossom in year 4 ignores his career going back to high school.

He was unimpressive enough to high school for virtually all of D-I to ignore him, leading him to walk on at Duke. He never was any kind of star at Duke either, even allowing for an unimpressive roster around him. Now he's been mediocre at best as a pro.
RE: RE: RE: Whatever you think about Jones...  
dancing blue bear : 5/24/2022 11:22 pm : link

you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.

...

The surrounding talent for Jones certainly hasn't been best in the NFL.

But that doesn't mean Jones still can't be evaluated after his 37 starts. That's a lot of plays and data over that time. And we can look for specific traits to study.

[/quote]

The professionals feel otherwise. They specifically said he has not had an environment which would yeild an accurate evaluation. And to the point of professional evaluation on QBs, darnold, baker got 5th year extensions that are regrettable. Lamar and kylar have not been extended. so evaluating a pro qb can take more then 3 years.

If your point is that he has had enough chances after camp closes this year, then I agree with that. He has to stay healthy and produce this year. and this season will not be pristine conditions either. plenty of weak spots on the roster. the main difference, I hope, will be competent (or dare i hope talented) coaching and a modern offensive approach.
I would say BBI is very accurate taken as a whole  
Vanzetti : 5/24/2022 11:29 pm : link
Most fans are blindly loyal to their own players.

Not the case here

It’s mostly the rhetoric that is excessive on BBI. But the analysis is often cogent . The problem here is that a vocal few never talk about the team but spend all their time attacking other posters.
Phil Simms says he is the best Giant.  
Carl in CT : 5/24/2022 11:35 pm : link
He knows a little about being a QB. Until that changes you would be nuts to move on. The goods are there. Will he be the best in the league. Nope!,,, can you win with him with talent around him (like an Eli)? Yup.
RE: People say you can't evaluate Jones with this OL  
dancing blue bear : 5/24/2022 11:41 pm : link
In comment 15717777 Go Terps said:
Quote:
How can you evaluate the OL when they're blocking for a QB as good as Jones? People are comfortable evaluating Evan Engram; how can you evaluate him when Jones was his QB?

Gettleman fucked everything else up, but he got Jones right?

Jones is getting miles of leash while everyone else gets none. Never made sense.


I get that it is fashionable to say gettlemen did nothing right, but that is emotional and not true. That argument - to prove a point on Jones - is weak and lazy, besides.

He did a terrible job. no doubt, but there are plenty of pieces that will be here for a while.
I wouldn't be sure of this  
Go Terps : 5/24/2022 11:50 pm : link
"He did a terrible job. no doubt, but there are plenty of pieces that will be here for a while."
Plenty of pieces that will be here for a while?  
Jimmy Googs : 5/25/2022 12:41 am : link
You had better hope neither is true...
Should we cut promising young players on  
dancing blue bear : 5/25/2022 1:58 am : link
rookie contracts because they were selected by Gettlemen? they have his stink on them. Or because he selected them they cannot turn out to be good? Will you only be satisfied when the team has been sanitized?

Do you not think AT and x man have the look of cornerstone players? Pro bowl potential players? Azeez, Dex, and Leo are good players and def part of the solution. Love, Lemiux, and Gates(maybe health) are going to have a chance at 2nd contract this year. Those guys are winning players. pros.
and we will see what Toney, robinsen, smith, roche etc do ths year. they will have prominent roles

No one is saying DG was not terrible, but reactions to the idea that there are some good players left behind are pure hysteria.
......  
Route 9 : 5/25/2022 2:40 am : link
How have you guys watched Jones for 3 years and at the same time still convinced Jones should be the starting QB of the Giants?

The only thing you tend to be able to do well is describe yourselves when talking to people who are trying to help you understand.

As I said before, he can stay with the Giants. Just as a backup.

You're the party who has to persuade everyone of us to believe in Jones and you all have done none of that. Just a bottomless pit of excuses. Jones wouldn't make the Bengals better if he were their starting QB. He wouldn't make the Chargers better if he were their starting QB.

Yawn.
I will go with Simms opinion any day.  
Giant John : 5/25/2022 6:06 am : link
Some of the comments in this thread are just ignorant. Jones has not played for a team that has had a chance in hell of being a winning team. Just look at what happened when he went down last year. There was your oline evaluation Terps.
Thank God we have a GM/Coach that are reasonable in their judgment of talent. If the line didn’t suck why did they go out and rebuild it? Rather obvious.
Aside  
TommyWiseau : 5/25/2022 8:04 am : link
from his pretty good rookie year (except for the fumbles) he has been pretty bad. How anyone can look at his body of work and consider him a top 20 starter is mindboggling. He has a lot of work to do and a short time to do it.
...  
ATL_Giants : 5/25/2022 8:35 am : link
Must admit  
Harvest Blend : 5/25/2022 9:36 am : link
I didn't expect this to turn into yet another Jones thread. Guess I'm gullible.
Whether another message board is more measured  
Mike from Ohio : 5/25/2022 9:52 am : link
or reasonable is completely dependent on your own perspective. If you believe Jones will become a legit starting QB this year, you see other people who hold the same view as smart and reasonable. It says nothing about those fans and their level of discourse.

In a society that is largely coagulating into tribes, the people in your tribe will always seem like the smartest and best of the bunch. It's called conformational bias.
A BBI major flaw  
5BowlsSoon : 5/25/2022 9:59 am : link
REDUNDANCY!

So many threads say the same thing albeit with slightly different words.

The best threads are the ones that are fact driven, not just someone’s opinions.

One thing I do like a lot about BBI- the thread titles. I can pretty much weed out the threads that i know i won’t get much out of….and of course, on the opposite end of the spectrum someone who wants to share their opinion on another thread about how DJones is not good enough, can use these thread titles to pile on……again and again and again……..
A BBI major flaw  
5BowlsSoon : 5/25/2022 9:59 am : link
REDUNDANCY!

So many threads say the same thing albeit with slightly different words.

The best threads are the ones that are fact driven, not just someone’s opinions.

One thing I do like a lot about BBI- the thread titles. I can pretty much weed out the threads that i know i won’t get much out of….and of course, on the opposite end of the spectrum someone who wants to share their opinion on another thread about how DJones is not good enough, can use these thread titles to pile on……again and again and again……..
It is a bit odd  
Mike from Ohio : 5/25/2022 10:08 am : link
how many people get upset when there is a lot of conversation about the most important position on the team we all root for who is, by all measures, at a make-or-break point in his career. Their answer? Nobody should say anything other than "let's wait and see!"

There are 100 threads on the Oline also. Has that been discussed to death? Should we not talk about it because threads have already been posted about it?

If you don't want to read about Daniel Jones anymore I get it. But it is really simple to avoid those discussions so I don't understand why people get upset just because they exist.
That's an epic  
Scooter185 : 5/25/2022 10:08 am : link
Double post, 5Bowls
RE: RE: RE: RE: Whatever you think about Jones...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/25/2022 10:37 am : link
In comment 15717780 dancing blue bear said:
Quote:

you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.

...

The surrounding talent for Jones certainly hasn't been best in the NFL.

But that doesn't mean Jones still can't be evaluated after his 37 starts. That's a lot of plays and data over that time. And we can look for specific traits to study.



The professionals feel otherwise. They specifically said he has not had an environment which would yeild an accurate evaluation. . [/quote]

A question: why is it okay to evaluate a player at the college level in poor environments and decide to draft them, but it you can't accurately evaluate a player in your own building that you see every day in poor environments?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Whatever you think about Jones...  
Mike from Ohio : 5/25/2022 10:53 am : link
In comment 15717951 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15717780 dancing blue bear said:


Quote:



you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.

...

The surrounding talent for Jones certainly hasn't been best in the NFL.

But that doesn't mean Jones still can't be evaluated after his 37 starts. That's a lot of plays and data over that time. And we can look for specific traits to study.





The professionals feel otherwise. They specifically said he has not had an environment which would yeild an accurate evaluation. .


A question: why is it okay to evaluate a player at the college level in poor environments and decide to draft them, but it you can't accurately evaluate a player in your own building that you see every day in poor environments? [/quote]

People who believe 37 NFL starts provide literally no information to evaluate about Daniel Jones are simply making excuses. They are also typically the ones who are saying "I'm glad they didn't draft Justin Fields because he sucks" after 12 starts.
RE: A BBI major flaw  
Jimmy Googs : 5/25/2022 11:01 am : link
In comment 15717917 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
REDUNDANCY!

So many threads say the same thing albeit with slightly different words.

The best threads are the ones that are fact driven, not just someone’s opinions.

One thing I do like a lot about BBI- the thread titles. I can pretty much weed out the threads that i know i won’t get much out of….and of course, on the opposite end of the spectrum someone who wants to share their opinion on another thread about how DJones is not good enough, can use these thread titles to pile on……again and again and again……..


pure comic relief that this got double-posted...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Whatever you think about Jones...  
dancing blue bear : 5/25/2022 11:49 am : link
In comment 15717951 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15717780 dancing blue bear said:


Quote:



you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.

...

The surrounding talent for Jones certainly hasn't been best in the NFL.

But that doesn't mean Jones still can't be evaluated after his 37 starts. That's a lot of plays and data over that time. And we can look for specific traits to study.





The professionals feel otherwise. They specifically said he has not had an environment which would yeild an accurate evaluation. .


A question: why is it okay to evaluate a player at the college level in poor environments and decide to draft them, but it you can't accurately evaluate a player in your own building that you see every day in poor environments? [/quote]

For starters, the draft is not a science. You collect what info you can and hope for the best. You have no other choice. A lot of it is projection and they get it wrong plenty. And it’s not just a translation to a different league that causes busts, it’s sometimes money, fame, complacency, inability to grasp the mental side, difficulty in being a professional

In terms of evaluating guys in your own building. None other f the players have been “in the building” with the coaches. Daboll said evaluation of practice is a big part of evaluating players. That and when any outsider watches film it is tough to evaluate because we don’t know what was supposed to happen on a play or how it was coached. So the results don’t tell the whole story.

But the main point is that we have a professional front office and coaches that feel that A. Jones eval is incomplete and B. As of May Jones gives the team the best chance to win.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Whatever you think about Jones...  
dancing blue bear : 5/25/2022 11:56 am : link
In comment [url=index.php?mode=2&thread=622789&show_all=1#15717969]15717969[/[/quote]

People who believe 37 NFL starts provide literally no information to evaluate about Daniel Jones are simply making excuses. They are also typically the ones who are saying "I'm glad they didn't draft Justin Fields because he sucks" after 12 starts. [/quote]

“Literally” no information? I’m gonna assume you mean that figuratively because no one has even come close to implying anything like that.

qb is hard to evaluate. Look at darnold, baker, Murray, Jackson. They all have more the 37 starts and they either got a tag that the team regretted (missed eval) or have not been extended (incomplete)
RE: Who cares whether jones has or hasn’t  
HomerJones45 : 5/25/2022 11:57 am : link
In comment 15717774 djm said:
Quote:
Gotten enough chances? Point is he’s getting another one.

Some good qbs needed a lot of time before they took off and they all struggled early for more than one specific reason. No qb is created equal. No situation is the same.

Jones is getting another chance because the 3rd staff to coach him feels he’s worth the time and effort. That’s all that matters at this point.

Maybe the coaching is better and maybe the talent is better around Jones. Maybe he needed four years and maybe five years from now we’re all acknowledging that it took a lot of bad things to hinder things and a lot of good things to help Jones win.

Or maybe he washes out and is benched or hurt by November. I’m happy that this staff is focusing more on playmaking and less on mistakes. I feel like Jim fassel came in here with a similar feel and approach and it helped lead the giant out of the last dreadful phase they were in.
Jones is getting another chance because he is still on his rookie contract with a cap-strapped team. The staff and team told you all about his worth in time and effort when it refused to pick up his option year.

The same rationales are being offered now that were offered for Jones at Duke- it's the receivers, it's the o-line, it's the scheme yada, yada, yada. Maybe it's Jones- zero star recruit, limited qb who got as far as he did with professional-level college coaching and his passing resemblance to a Manning. We are not moving on this year for financial and draft scarcity reasons, unless he stinks or gets hurt in which case Taylor will Wally Pipp Jones and that will be that.
I prefer bbi's  
Spiciest Memelord : 5/25/2022 12:00 pm : link
vicious little sewing circle scamps.
I am a Jones supporter  
Rudy5757 : 5/25/2022 12:16 pm : link
Here is why I think Jones will be better this season.

Under Shurmur he looked really good his 1st year. If you look at our last 3 coaches prior to Daboll the offense was by far the best under Shurmur and by far the worst under Judge.

Our WR talent pretty much bottom 3rd

Our OL talent definitely bottom 3rd

RB situation probably bottom 3rd last 2 years

Offensive scheme bottom 3rd under Judge and may have been the worst in the league

I think the OL looks much improved, the WRs if healthy will be put in position to succeed, Barkley should be healthy and the RBs overall have a different look.

The offensive scheme should have a dramatic effect on DJ and the entire offense. I think DJ will thrive in an offense like KC and Buffalo and his skills as a runner will be utilized to open things up as well.

I dont think many QBs could have been successful in the situation the last 2 seasons and if you look at what happened after Jones went down the offense fell of a cliff. Usually you see some dropoff in play with a backup but our offense was non existent after he went down. I think Jones can slide into the top part of the 2nd tier QBs, thats probably his ceiling. So I would say in the 10 - 20 range of QBs which you can win with. Our talent on this team overall was bottom 5 last year, its still bad but its getting better.
Just saw this thread from yesterday  
Dave on the UWS : 5/25/2022 12:56 pm : link
I would have bet 3 paychecks they as soon as Jones was mentioned, both BW and Terps would be pounding the keyboard.
Out resident experts- on nothing.
Would anyone here really say ANY player on this roster can be truly evaluated just from the last two years? Thomas and McKinney, yes, but not much else.
So if you remove these two waste of time years (which the naysayers will not- doesn’t fit their narrative), you have essentially on promising rookie season for Jones. THAT’s what Schoen and Daboll are looking at to see if that can be a jumping off point for Jones to grow from. Not the last two years.
Some people here think elite QBs grow on trees. Just keep dumping one after another, pick a new one every year until you get it right. (Terps idea). Salary cap doesn’t work like that, first order of business is to find a QB that you “could” win with. As with all positions, you are constantly looking for an upgrade.
With a proper, functional system, Jones is probably a middle of the pack starter, top 10’in a career year (not unlike Eli). For a start, management would take that.
RE: People say you can't evaluate Jones with this OL  
joe48 : 5/25/2022 1:14 pm : link
In comment 15717777 Go Terps said:
Quote:
How can you evaluate the OL when they're blocking for a QB as good as Jones? People are comfortable evaluating Evan Engram; how can you evaluate him when Jones was his QB?

Gettleman fucked everything else up, but he got Jones right?

Jones is getting miles of leash while everyone else gets none. Never made sense.

You said their was not one player you would keep on this team. So now you change your tune. Whatever fits your DJ sucks agenda.
RE: Just saw this thread from yesterday  
Scooter185 : 5/25/2022 1:25 pm : link
In comment 15718108 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
I would have bet 3 paychecks they as soon as Jones was mentioned, both BW and Terps would be pounding the keyboard.
Out resident experts- on nothing.
Would anyone here really say ANY player on this roster can be truly evaluated just from the last two years? Thomas and McKinney, yes, but not much else.
So if you remove these two waste of time years (which the naysayers will not- doesn’t fit their narrative), you have essentially on promising rookie season for Jones. THAT’s what Schoen and Daboll are looking at to see if that can be a jumping off point for Jones to grow from. Not the last two years.
Some people here think elite QBs grow on trees. Just keep dumping one after another, pick a new one every year until you get it right. (Terps idea). Salary cap doesn’t work like that, first order of business is to find a QB that you “could” win with. As with all positions, you are constantly looking for an upgrade.
With a proper, functional system, Jones is probably a middle of the pack starter, top 10’in a career year (not unlike Eli). For a start, management would take that.


Lol, ignoring two years worth of information is creating a narrative. BW, GT, etc are using 7+ years of information to form their opinion on.

You don't just get to say "these years don't really count"
You can evaluate Jones  
Thegratefulhead : 5/25/2022 1:26 pm : link
The people whining that you can't evaluate him clearly have an agenda. They have an opinion on Jones they want to be correct about.

That is all it is. The "experts" saying this are guilty of the same offense. You folks don't even want people with opinions different than your own to type on fan board. Let's be honest, all of this whining,

"Terps and BW have to come and complain about Jones everywhere but see no problems when people post about their undeserved faith in Jones. That faith is undeserved, it isn't a debate. He has not succeeded anywhere. a light might go off, sure, but how likely is that?

Confirmation Bias

The confirmation bias is the tendency to listen more often to information that confirms our existing beliefs. Through this bias, people tend to favor information that reinforces the things they already think or believe.

Examples include:

Only paying attention to information that confirms your beliefs about issues such as gun control and global warming

Only following people on social media who share your viewpoints

Choosing news sources that present stories that support your views

Refusing to listen to the opposing side

Not considering all of the facts in a logical and rational manner

There are a few reasons why this happens. One is that only seeking to confirm existing opinions helps limit mental resources we need to use to make decisions. It also helps protect self-esteem by making people feel that their beliefs are accurate.

People on two sides of an issue can listen to the same story and walk away with different interpretations that they feel validates their existing point of view. This is often indicative that the confirmation bias is working to "bias" their opinions.

The problem with this is that it can lead to poor choices, an inability to listen to opposing views, or even contribute to othering people who hold different opinions.

BBI encapsulated.
RE: RE: Jones has flaws  
Keyser : 5/25/2022 1:51 pm : link
In comment 15717566 uther99 said:
Quote:
In comment 15717485 OBJ_AllDay said:


Quote:


and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.



Elite speed? He ran 4.8 40


On the Jones face plant run vs the Eagles, his top speed was 21.23 mph, higher than any qb since 2018, and that includes Lamar Jackson. Thats more indicative of elite speed than a 40 time at a combine.
Daniel Jones speed - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: Jones has flaws  
uther99 : 5/25/2022 2:04 pm : link
In comment 15718143 Keyser said:
Quote:
In comment 15717566 uther99 said:


Quote:


In comment 15717485 OBJ_AllDay said:


Quote:


and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.



Elite speed? He ran 4.8 40



On the Jones face plant run vs the Eagles, his top speed was 21.23 mph, higher than any qb since 2018, and that includes Lamar Jackson. Thats more indicative of elite speed than a 40 time at a combine. Daniel Jones speed - ( New Window )


Sure, that's one play. I don't anyone thinks of Jones as a running QB like Jackson. Jones only threat when he runs is to himself
DJ routinely outruns DBs  
Spiciest Memelord : 5/25/2022 2:30 pm : link
since his days at Duke. He's a long strider like Usain Bolt.

Good to see him practicing scrambling drills, in theory he has as much (or little) short area quickness as Josh Allen, but Allen seems to be able to escape and punish a D.
RE: You can evaluate Jones  
Producer : 5/25/2022 2:49 pm : link
In comment 15718133 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
The people whining that you can't evaluate him clearly have an agenda. They have an opinion on Jones they want to be correct about.

That is all it is. The "experts" saying this are guilty of the same offense. You folks don't even want people with opinions different than your own to type on fan board. Let's be honest, all of this whining,

"Terps and BW have to come and complain about Jones everywhere but see no problems when people post about their undeserved faith in Jones. That faith is undeserved, it isn't a debate. He has not succeeded anywhere. a light might go off, sure, but how likely is that?

Confirmation Bias

The confirmation bias is the tendency to listen more often to information that confirms our existing beliefs. Through this bias, people tend to favor information that reinforces the things they already think or believe.

Examples include:

Only paying attention to information that confirms your beliefs about issues such as gun control and global warming

Only following people on social media who share your viewpoints

Choosing news sources that present stories that support your views

Refusing to listen to the opposing side

Not considering all of the facts in a logical and rational manner

There are a few reasons why this happens. One is that only seeking to confirm existing opinions helps limit mental resources we need to use to make decisions. It also helps protect self-esteem by making people feel that their beliefs are accurate.

People on two sides of an issue can listen to the same story and walk away with different interpretations that they feel validates their existing point of view. This is often indicative that the confirmation bias is working to "bias" their opinions.

The problem with this is that it can lead to poor choices, an inability to listen to opposing views, or even contribute to othering people who hold different opinions.

BBI encapsulated.


yep.. confirmation bias rules here at BBI.
......  
Route 9 : 5/25/2022 2:52 pm : link
What am I, chopped liver?

I probably think less of Jones than Terps and bw do. I can't understand why (and it drives me crazy) why we are still bothering with Jones heading into 2022.
RE: ......  
Producer : 5/25/2022 2:55 pm : link
In comment 15718186 Route 9 said:
Quote:
What am I, chopped liver?

I probably think less of Jones than Terps and bw do. I can't understand why (and it drives me crazy) why we are still bothering with Jones heading into 2022.


We have to *evaluate* him, Route.
RE: ......  
GNewGiants : 5/25/2022 2:57 pm : link
In comment 15718186 Route 9 said:
Quote:
What am I, chopped liver?

I probably think less of Jones than Terps and bw do. I can't understand why (and it drives me crazy) why we are still bothering with Jones heading into 2022.


Well if we want a chance at Stroud or another top QB - isn’t Jones are best option?
RE: RE: People say you can't evaluate Jones with this OL  
Go Terps : 5/25/2022 3:13 pm : link
In comment 15718124 joe48 said:
Quote:
In comment 15717777 Go Terps said:


Quote:


How can you evaluate the OL when they're blocking for a QB as good as Jones? People are comfortable evaluating Evan Engram; how can you evaluate him when Jones was his QB?

Gettleman fucked everything else up, but he got Jones right?

Jones is getting miles of leash while everyone else gets none. Never made sense.


You said their was not one player you would keep on this team. So now you change your tune. Whatever fits your DJ sucks agenda.


I'm not changing my tune. Just pointing out the inconsistency in the argument blaming everyone else for Jones's inarguable lack of performance.

I have to say it's the first time I've seen the argument for a failed first round QB made with such frequency. I don't recall reading that Jake Locker was a victim of his offensive line, or Christian Ponder was a good player but had no receivers, or Blaine Gabbert was the victim of his poor coaches. Everyone was pretty comfortable just saying they weren't good.

But with Jones it's been very different here. Wonder why.
yes  
djm : 5/25/2022 3:18 pm : link
let's just bring up DG and how much we hate him and let that narrative drive the DJ discussion. Because that makes all the sense in the world.

Some of the worst GMs of all time drafted HOF players.

He's getting this year. Wait it out.
and for the record  
djm : 5/25/2022 3:21 pm : link
gun to my head? I think Jones won't be the QB by December. I think he gets hurt again, finds the bench and isn't re-signed in the offseason and becomes another team's problem in 2023.

But I am looking forward to seeing how things unfold anything is possible, especially when it comes to QB development.

RE: and for the record  
Route 9 : 5/25/2022 3:31 pm : link
In comment 15718214 djm said:
Quote:
gun to my head? I think Jones won't be the QB by December. I think he gets hurt again, finds the bench and isn't re-signed in the offseason and becomes another team's problem in 2023.

But I am looking forward to seeing how things unfold anything is possible, especially when it comes to QB development.


I don't even think he makes it to December.

I do have him getting benched in early October. He'll probably find his way to the field again and then get hurt very quickly.
I just don't understand  
djm : 5/25/2022 3:32 pm : link
why there needs to be an explanation or "acceptable excuse" for Jones. What if he just sucked on his own and what if he simply improves in year 4 thanks to a fresh start under good coaching? That can happen. Jones could have been the main catalyst for the offensive failures here...FULL STOP. And he could still turn into a viable solid QB here despite the bad start to his career.

It's happened before. If it didn't happen before GMs and HCs wouldn't go down with the ship time and time again. Not an exact science.
RE: RE: RE: People say you can't evaluate Jones with this OL  
Johnny5 : 5/25/2022 3:35 pm : link
In comment 15718205 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15718124 joe48 said:


Quote:


In comment 15717777 Go Terps said:


Quote:


How can you evaluate the OL when they're blocking for a QB as good as Jones? People are comfortable evaluating Evan Engram; how can you evaluate him when Jones was his QB?

Gettleman fucked everything else up, but he got Jones right?

Jones is getting miles of leash while everyone else gets none. Never made sense.


You said their was not one player you would keep on this team. So now you change your tune. Whatever fits your DJ sucks agenda.



I'm not changing my tune. Just pointing out the inconsistency in the argument blaming everyone else for Jones's inarguable lack of performance.

I have to say it's the first time I've seen the argument for a failed first round QB made with such frequency. I don't recall reading that Jake Locker was a victim of his offensive line, or Christian Ponder was a good player but had no receivers, or Blaine Gabbert was the victim of his poor coaches. Everyone was pretty comfortable just saying they weren't good.

But with Jones it's been very different here. Wonder why.

Wonder Why?

A) The frequency with which a few of you post your know it all opinions in your typical condescending manner, On almost every BBI thread created on a daily basis, about how obvious it is to you armchair GMs / QB whisperers that you have the inside track on who is and who isn't a bonafide NFL QB.

B) The fact that no one else on the planet is putting him on the level of Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, or Blaine Gabbert. You know except for you.

I don't know why I allow myself to get sucked into these threads again... and again... lol. I won't be torn up if Schoen/Daboll move on from him. I'd like to see him thrive in a good system with better teammates. If he doesn't, oh well. I'll root for the next QB up to do well and win games. But the level of obsessiveness some of you have in pointing out how much he sucks and that you know for a fact that your opinion trumps all others on this site... in thousands of posts in thousands of threads, over and over and over and ove.....

It's just absurd, really, at this point. Not sure why so many people get triggered over the fact that other people on this site would like the guy to succeed. I don't know that he ever becomes more than a middle of the road starter in this league, but as I've said probably 1000x now I want him to kick ass and chew bubblegum just so you fellas might realize the absolutes you throw around are... well, silly.

RE: RE: RE: RE: Jones has flaws  
Keyser : 5/25/2022 3:37 pm : link
In comment 15718150 uther99 said:
Quote:
In comment 15718143 Keyser said:


Quote:


In comment 15717566 uther99 said:


Quote:


In comment 15717485 OBJ_AllDay said:


Quote:


and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.



Elite speed? He ran 4.8 40



On the Jones face plant run vs the Eagles, his top speed was 21.23 mph, higher than any qb since 2018, and that includes Lamar Jackson. Thats more indicative of elite speed than a 40 time at a combine. Daniel Jones speed - ( New Window )



Sure, that's one play. I don't anyone thinks of Jones as a running QB like Jackson. Jones only threat when he runs is to himself


Thats one play that almost any other qb couldn't do because they don't have Jones speed.

If you think that Jones is not a true threat to run, then I don't know what team you were watching the past 3 years but it definitely wasn't the Giants.
RE: ......  
djm : 5/25/2022 3:38 pm : link
In comment 15718186 Route 9 said:
Quote:
What am I, chopped liver?

I probably think less of Jones than Terps and bw do. I can't understand why (and it drives me crazy) why we are still bothering with Jones heading into 2022.


Because the draft was QB weak at the top based on our GM's perceptions. We didn't want Russel Wilson (LOL) and Jones is the best QB on the roster. And he was already signed.

This happened before with Dave Brown. If Jones falls again you won't have DJ to kick around anymore. It's shit or get off the pot time.
RE: RE: and for the record  
djm : 5/25/2022 3:46 pm : link
In comment 15718223 Route 9 said:
Quote:
In comment 15718214 djm said:


Quote:


gun to my head? I think Jones won't be the QB by December. I think he gets hurt again, finds the bench and isn't re-signed in the offseason and becomes another team's problem in 2023.

But I am looking forward to seeing how things unfold anything is possible, especially when it comes to QB development.




I don't even think he makes it to December.

I do have him getting benched in early October. He'll probably find his way to the field again and then get hurt very quickly.


Yea it's certainly possible. He's going to have to make plays out there and that means more aggressiveness. That could be trouble--but I am excited to see how things unfold. I hated how he played in 2021 much more so than how he played 2019, turnovers and all.


It's not like the Giants went out of the way to acquire Jones this offseason. They didn't sign him this offseason to a longer deal. They already had him. He's got one more year. It makes sense to give him the first few weeks and see where it goes.
and saying Jones got more of a leash than anyone else  
djm : 5/25/2022 3:53 pm : link


The Giants have historically been painstakingly patient with first round draft picks, especially QBs. Sometimes to a fault. Sometimes not.

Look at guys like Ereck Flowers if you don't believe me. Guy got chance after chance here. And he was more un-coachable than Jones ever was.


Johnny5  
Go Terps : 5/25/2022 3:58 pm : link
I want him to be MVP and lead the Giants to a title this year. I also want Niko Lalos to be better than Lawrence Taylor.

Who gives a shit what we want?

Terps to be fair  
Johnny5 : 5/25/2022 4:14 pm : link
I'm 1000% ALL IN on a young Angie Dickinson
I'm shocked that anyone on BBI  
NoGainDayne : 5/25/2022 5:08 pm : link
would go somewhere else for Giants news. I spend too much time here as is
RE: RE: Whatever you think about Jones...  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/25/2022 5:09 pm : link
In comment 15717496 joe48 said:
Quote:
In comment 15717474 bw in dc said:


Quote:


you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.

Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.

Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...


There you go. This was not about DJ but if his name is mentioned some of the same have people have got to make a negative comment.

Where was the negative comment in this post?
RE: RE: RE: Jones has flaws  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/25/2022 5:26 pm : link
In comment 15718143 Keyser said:
Quote:
In comment 15717566 uther99 said:


Quote:


In comment 15717485 OBJ_AllDay said:


Quote:


and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.



Elite speed? He ran 4.8 40



On the Jones face plant run vs the Eagles, his top speed was 21.23 mph, higher than any qb since 2018, and that includes Lamar Jackson. Thats more indicative of elite speed than a 40 time at a combine. Daniel Jones speed - ( New Window )

It's really not, unless you know DJ's acceleration rate and what his speed was at several intervals along the way.

Running 21.23mph means almost nothing if it took DJ 50 yards to reach that velocity, because he will so rarely have enough runway to achieve that speed in the normal course of the game.

A jumbo jet can go a hell of a lot faster than a Ferrari at top speed, but I'd bet on the latter in a 100-yard race from a cold start.
RE: How well did Mahomes play against Tampa  
TheMick7 : 5/26/2022 6:10 am : link
In comment 15717719 kelly said:
Quote:
When his line stunk.

Or Brady against Ny in the Superbowls when we had pass rush.

No quarterback is good when the O line stinks.

Name me the quarterback who is consistently good behind a shit o line?

I can't think of a single one.


Eli NFC Championship @SF He was mugged the entire game,yet got us to the Super Bowl
RE: RE: How well did Mahomes play against Tampa  
Johnny5 : 5/26/2022 7:12 pm : link
In comment 15718535 TheMick7 said:
Quote:
In comment 15717719 kelly said:


Quote:


When his line stunk.

Or Brady against Ny in the Superbowls when we had pass rush.

No quarterback is good when the O line stinks.

Name me the quarterback who is consistently good behind a shit o line?

I can't think of a single one.



Eli NFC Championship @SF He was mugged the entire game,yet got us to the Super Bowl

lol

You are going to compare the team that played in the 2011 NFC title game to last years Giants.

And against a world class defensive team.

L
O
Fucking L

and

HOLY
SHIT
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