Perspective and tone on Daniel Jones. Much less harsh negativity and more in depth discussion. Fans are much less dug in with their opinions. Not saying there is not good content on BBI just more contentious posting. Just another perspective on Giants as a team.
I would say most of the board would rank him between 15-20 best starting QBs in the league. There are some who think he is top 10 and some that think in the 30s but those are the most vocal minority.
I would say most of the board would rank him between 15-20 best starting QBs in the league. There are some who think he is top 10 and some that think in the 30s but those are the most vocal minority.
I will gladly eat humble pie....I don't think he has what it takes, but if he shows me wrong I will admit not seeing it. I root like crazy for him......just what was the last Duke QB that made the play-offs?
I agree with this. Same with Facebook groups and all that other stuff. Take it way too personally and without any useful discussions.
BBI is better.
Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.
Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...
Jones is missing the most important thing.
"It"
Great guy, hard worker, good teammate and smart with NFL quality talents.
The Giants are down by 4, 3rd down and 11 on their own 30 yard line, 55 seconds and all 3 timeouts.
Daniel gets the snap, drops back to pass his first read is covered.
How do you feel?
Sick to my stomach, waiting for the failure.
In 3 years there were enough pass attempts from a clean pocket to judge Jones.
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and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.
We all said something like that last year.
Jones is missing the most important thing.
"It"
Great guy, hard worker, good teammate and smart with NFL quality talents.
The Giants are down by 4, 3rd down and 11 on their own 30 yard line, 55 seconds and all 3 timeouts.
Daniel gets the snap, drops back to pass his first read is covered.
How do you feel?
Sick to my stomach, waiting for the failure.
In 3 years there were enough pass attempts from a clean pocket to judge Jones.
I pretty much agree. Damn that first win against Tampa had a lot of us excited about the future too. Do I trust him to lead a game winning drive? Much like yourself, the answer is pretty much "No"
Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.
Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...
There you go. This was not about DJ but if his name is mentioned some of the same have people have got to make a negative comment.
But his number "with time" and when Barkley produces are pretty good overall.
I'm going out on a limb here and will say he has a shot at a very good season IF we can pull out early season wins when we are likely going to struggle with the new systems.
I think if he has an "average" OL and healthy wideouts and Barkley he will have a superb year. All are big ifs.
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you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.
Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.
Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...
There you go. This was not about DJ but if his name is mentioned some of the same have people have got to make a negative comment.
I wouldn't characterize my comments as negative. They are accurate, IMV.
You mentioned Jones in your post and how BBV posters, by and large, have more middle of the road POV on Jones. If you don't want to bring Jones into this, write a more generic comment of BBI v BBV.
I would say most of the board would rank him between 15-20 best starting QBs in the league. There are some who think he is top 10 and some that think in the 30s but those are the most vocal minority.
I would agree with this.
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In comment 15717474 bw in dc said:
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you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.
Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.
Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...
There you go. This was not about DJ but if his name is mentioned some of the same have people have got to make a negative comment.
I wouldn't characterize my comments as negative. They are accurate, IMV.
You mentioned Jones in your post and how BBV posters, by and large, have more middle of the road POV on Jones. If you don't want to bring Jones into this, write a more generic comment of BBI v BBV.
I think your earlier post here belies your statement about not being negative. Count his chances. Year 1 most people think he did well. Year 2 was bad-he showed poor pocket presence and fumbled too often. Year 3, he was not good, but he had a lousy online, decimated receiver corps, and lousy scheme/play calling. And missed 7 games. To me, and others, he deserves this year. But this is it. He needs to stay healthy, stop fumbling, and make the right reads. If not, sayonara
Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.
Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...
Elite speed? He ran 4.8 40
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and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.
We all said something like that last year.
Jones is missing the most important thing.
"It"
Great guy, hard worker, good teammate and smart with NFL quality talents.
The Giants are down by 4, 3rd down and 11 on their own 30 yard line, 55 seconds and all 3 timeouts.
Daniel gets the snap, drops back to pass his first read is covered.
How do you feel?
Sick to my stomach, waiting for the failure.
In 3 years there were enough pass attempts from a clean pocket to judge Jones.
Clean pocket we a rare commodity for Jones, add in the fact that his WR's were covered so tight you couldn't get a credit card between them and the DB! I am a fan of his and I believe he will do well, he has to other wise we are looking at another 3 or so years for a new qb to develop.
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you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.
Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.
Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...
I can absolutely say, with confidence, that Daniel Jones hasn’t gotten enough chances. The only actual chances he got was getting drafted and getting promoted to tackling dummy for opposing defenses. To call years 2 and 3 actual “chances” would be ridiculous. He had zero chance to succeed with the line “protecting” him and very few games with starting caliber weapons on the field with him. This year, we are actually setup to see what the kid can be. I’m not expecting elite. I’m expecting above average with elite potential. If that doesn’t happen? I will at least feel like he got a real chance and moving on would be in the team’s best interest at that point. Or maybe we keep him as a backup. But if it does? That would be awesome for us.
The surrounding talent for Jones certainly hasn't been best in the NFL.
But that doesn't mean Jones still can't be evaluated after his 37 starts. That's a lot of plays and data over that time. And we can look for specific traits to study.
The NFL isn't meant to be comfortable and easy. And the really talented players figure it out and flash enough to give you the confidence that the right decision has been made...
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you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.
Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.
Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...
I can absolutely say, with confidence, that Daniel Jones hasn’t gotten enough chances. The only actual chances he got was getting drafted and getting promoted to tackling dummy for opposing defenses. To call years 2 and 3 actual “chances” would be ridiculous. He had zero chance to succeed with the line “protecting” him and very few games with starting caliber weapons on the field with him. This year, we are actually setup to see what the kid can be. I’m not expecting elite. I’m expecting above average with elite potential. If that doesn’t happen? I will at least feel like he got a real chance and moving on would be in the team’s best interest at that point. Or maybe we keep him as a backup. But if it does? That would be awesome for us.
You're totally right dude. Could you imagine a young QB with a bad O-line having success and proving that they are a franchise QB? Impossible!
No, I haven't watched any Bengals or Chargers games that past 2 years, why do you ask?
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on Daniel Jones. The ones who are typically are the ones who post the most about him.
I would say most of the board would rank him between 15-20 best starting QBs in the league. There are some who think he is top 10 and some that think in the 30s but those are the most vocal minority.
I will gladly eat humble pie....I don't think he has what it takes, but if he shows me wrong I will admit not seeing it. I root like crazy for him......just what was the last Duke QB that made the play-offs?
Love this logic. Who was the last Ole Miss QB to make the playoffs before Eli? Who was the last Univ. Of Tenn. QB to make the playoffs before Peyton? Who was the last Georgia QB to make the playoffs before Stafford? How many here would take Stroud next year, but who was the last OSU qb to make the playoffs?
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In comment 15717485 OBJ_AllDay said:
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and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.
We all said something like that last year.
Jones is missing the most important thing.
"It"
Great guy, hard worker, good teammate and smart with NFL quality talents.
The Giants are down by 4, 3rd down and 11 on their own 30 yard line, 55 seconds and all 3 timeouts.
Daniel gets the snap, drops back to pass his first read is covered.
How do you feel?
Sick to my stomach, waiting for the failure.
In 3 years there were enough pass attempts from a clean pocket to judge Jones.
Clean pocket we a rare commodity for Jones, add in the fact that his WR's were covered so tight you couldn't get a credit card between them and the DB! I am a fan of his and I believe he will do well, he has to other wise we are looking at another 3 or so years for a new qb to develop.
We aren't waiting 3 years for another QB to develop. If JS and BD are good at their jobs the QB they draft is going to step right in, mayyyyyyybe sit 1 year at most like we've seen around the league recently.
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and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.
We all said something like that last year.
Jones is missing the most important thing.
"It"
Great guy, hard worker, good teammate and smart with NFL quality talents.
The Giants are down by 4, 3rd down and 11 on their own 30 yard line, 55 seconds and all 3 timeouts.
Daniel gets the snap, drops back to pass his first read is covered.
How do you feel?
Sick to my stomach, waiting for the failure.
In 3 years there were enough pass attempts from a clean pocket to judge Jones.
I feel like he's gonna get sacked because our offensive line suck
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In comment 15717474 bw in dc said:
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you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.
Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.
Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...
I can absolutely say, with confidence, that Daniel Jones hasn’t gotten enough chances. The only actual chances he got was getting drafted and getting promoted to tackling dummy for opposing defenses. To call years 2 and 3 actual “chances” would be ridiculous. He had zero chance to succeed with the line “protecting” him and very few games with starting caliber weapons on the field with him. This year, we are actually setup to see what the kid can be. I’m not expecting elite. I’m expecting above average with elite potential. If that doesn’t happen? I will at least feel like he got a real chance and moving on would be in the team’s best interest at that point. Or maybe we keep him as a backup. But if it does? That would be awesome for us.
You're totally right dude. Could you imagine a young QB with a bad O-line having success and proving that they are a franchise QB? Impossible!
No, I haven't watched any Bengals or Chargers games that past 2 years, why do you ask?
I haven't watched the Chargers enough but comparing the Giants to the Bengals is, well... dumb.
Yep. You are right. You got me. Joe Burrow on the 2021 Giants takes us to the big show.
Yeppers.
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That got their franchise QB put out for a torn ACL.
Yep. You are right. You got me. Joe Burrow on the 2021 Giants takes us to the big show.
Yeppers.
As long as we get Chase, Mixon, Higgins and Uzomah….
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In comment 15717474 bw in dc said:
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you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.
Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.
Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...
I can absolutely say, with confidence, that Daniel Jones hasn’t gotten enough chances. The only actual chances he got was getting drafted and getting promoted to tackling dummy for opposing defenses. To call years 2 and 3 actual “chances” would be ridiculous. He had zero chance to succeed with the line “protecting” him and very few games with starting caliber weapons on the field with him. This year, we are actually setup to see what the kid can be. I’m not expecting elite. I’m expecting above average with elite potential. If that doesn’t happen? I will at least feel like he got a real chance and moving on would be in the team’s best interest at that point. Or maybe we keep him as a backup. But if it does? That would be awesome for us.
You're totally right dude. Could you imagine a young QB with a bad O-line having success and proving that they are a franchise QB? Impossible!
No, I haven't watched any Bengals or Chargers games that past 2 years, why do you ask?
So, there are 2 sides to the coin when it comes to supporting cast. There’s the oline, then the weapons surrounding the QB. Giants problems have extended well beyond the line. It became the Barkley offense once we shipped Beckham. We replace Beckham with Golden Tate and Slayton. We essentially had an offense where Barkley was the threat…and basically jags beyond that. Thought this was one area that was going to be improved in 2021 as the season wore on..on paper it was. Then injuries took care of the rest. 2020 was the worst collection of offensive talent I’ve seen on Giants offense, and somehow with injuries taking players away left and right the Giants managed to score even less in 2021. Comparing Mike Williams, Keenan Allen, and Austin Ekler to what the Giants trotted out the past 2 years is downright fucking laughable. Echo those sentiments for any delusional Giants fans making Bengals comparisons. Their starting skill players would be starting in NY. If you are gonna compare quarterbacks, please do your homework.
Or Brady against Ny in the Superbowls when we had pass rush.
No quarterback is good when the O line stinks.
Name me the quarterback who is consistently good behind a shit o line?
I can't think of a single one.
This idea was brought up during KCs Super Bowl loss against Tampa. The initial idea was that KC lost because they lost Fisher in afc championship and were suddenly paper thin at OT against one of the batter pass rushing fronts in football. The other side to the argument was that teams can manage such pressure if they have enough targets on routes getting open. That a team usually handles this best when they have 3 strong receiving targets that can consistently win on their routes and make a play. That other teams can scheme enough to make it very difficult to get your top 2 options going so if you can get to that 3rd option and win you can still find success. KC was having Hill and Kelce locked up, and with Watkins banged up they could not make Tampa pay for cheating on those 2. Tampa was the polar opposite, they went very deep on targets, 4-5 viable threats Brady could get to, harder to cheat, and even with pressure there’s a good chance the QB can find the guy with the best matchup. A version of this scenario played out in 2011, when the Giants had their trifecta at WR and were able to threaten teams despite a sub par oline. Even in the Super Bowl with BB saying it’s still a Nicks and Cruz game on the sideline the Giants knew they had a matchup problem in their 3rd WR and that fact revealed itself on the highlight play of the game to Super Mario.
So yeah, you can win with a subpar oline and a bevy of weapons….neither Herbert or Burrow would be taking the Giants to the super bowl or playoffs in 2021 because the Giants had neither.
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That got their franchise QB put out for a torn ACL.
Yep. You are right. You got me. Joe Burrow on the 2021 Giants takes us to the big show.
Yeppers.
Half the country laughed at the Bengals for taking a WR over a lineman. I was one of them laughing. That Bengals team was atrocious until Burrow and Chase lifted them up. Mixon didn't fall out of the sky like an angel. He's been there since 2017. CJ Uzomah has been in the NFL since 2015. The team wasn't good. Burrow and Chase lifted them, as stars do.
they have two overwhelming talents on the offensive end to offset a terrible offensive line that couldnt keep the QB healthy. Now they're adding to the OL but it was awful. It cost their franchise QB a season and thankfully there was no long term damage.
There were more links to the Bengals than people care to admit. The difference is the Giants haven't hit on the rare franchise- altering player and the Bengals found two guys like that.
Some good qbs needed a lot of time before they took off and they all struggled early for more than one specific reason. No qb is created equal. No situation is the same.
Jones is getting another chance because the 3rd staff to coach him feels he’s worth the time and effort. That’s all that matters at this point.
Maybe the coaching is better and maybe the talent is better around Jones. Maybe he needed four years and maybe five years from now we’re all acknowledging that it took a lot of bad things to hinder things and a lot of good things to help Jones win.
Or maybe he washes out and is benched or hurt by November. I’m happy that this staff is focusing more on playmaking and less on mistakes. I feel like Jim fassel came in here with a similar feel and approach and it helped lead the giant out of the last dreadful phase they were in.
Gettleman fucked everything else up, but he got Jones right?
Jones is getting miles of leash while everyone else gets none. Never made sense.
He was unimpressive enough to high school for virtually all of D-I to ignore him, leading him to walk on at Duke. He never was any kind of star at Duke either, even allowing for an unimpressive roster around him. Now he's been mediocre at best as a pro.
you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.
...
The surrounding talent for Jones certainly hasn't been best in the NFL.
But that doesn't mean Jones still can't be evaluated after his 37 starts. That's a lot of plays and data over that time. And we can look for specific traits to study.
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The professionals feel otherwise. They specifically said he has not had an environment which would yeild an accurate evaluation. And to the point of professional evaluation on QBs, darnold, baker got 5th year extensions that are regrettable. Lamar and kylar have not been extended. so evaluating a pro qb can take more then 3 years.
If your point is that he has had enough chances after camp closes this year, then I agree with that. He has to stay healthy and produce this year. and this season will not be pristine conditions either. plenty of weak spots on the roster. the main difference, I hope, will be competent (or dare i hope talented) coaching and a modern offensive approach.
Not the case here
It’s mostly the rhetoric that is excessive on BBI. But the analysis is often cogent . The problem here is that a vocal few never talk about the team but spend all their time attacking other posters.
Gettleman fucked everything else up, but he got Jones right?
Jones is getting miles of leash while everyone else gets none. Never made sense.
I get that it is fashionable to say gettlemen did nothing right, but that is emotional and not true. That argument - to prove a point on Jones - is weak and lazy, besides.
He did a terrible job. no doubt, but there are plenty of pieces that will be here for a while.
Do you not think AT and x man have the look of cornerstone players? Pro bowl potential players? Azeez, Dex, and Leo are good players and def part of the solution. Love, Lemiux, and Gates(maybe health) are going to have a chance at 2nd contract this year. Those guys are winning players. pros.
and we will see what Toney, robinsen, smith, roche etc do ths year. they will have prominent roles
No one is saying DG was not terrible, but reactions to the idea that there are some good players left behind are pure hysteria.
The only thing you tend to be able to do well is describe yourselves when talking to people who are trying to help you understand.
As I said before, he can stay with the Giants. Just as a backup.
You're the party who has to persuade everyone of us to believe in Jones and you all have done none of that. Just a bottomless pit of excuses. Jones wouldn't make the Bengals better if he were their starting QB. He wouldn't make the Chargers better if he were their starting QB.
Yawn.
Thank God we have a GM/Coach that are reasonable in their judgment of talent. If the line didn’t suck why did they go out and rebuild it? Rather obvious.