Perspective and tone on Daniel Jones. Much less harsh negativity and more in depth discussion. Fans are much less dug in with their opinions. Not saying there is not good content on BBI just more contentious posting. Just another perspective on Giants as a team.
In a society that is largely coagulating into tribes, the people in your tribe will always seem like the smartest and best of the bunch. It's called conformational bias.
So many threads say the same thing albeit with slightly different words.
The best threads are the ones that are fact driven, not just someone’s opinions.
One thing I do like a lot about BBI- the thread titles. I can pretty much weed out the threads that i know i won’t get much out of….and of course, on the opposite end of the spectrum someone who wants to share their opinion on another thread about how DJones is not good enough, can use these thread titles to pile on……again and again and again……..
So many threads say the same thing albeit with slightly different words.
The best threads are the ones that are fact driven, not just someone’s opinions.
One thing I do like a lot about BBI- the thread titles. I can pretty much weed out the threads that i know i won’t get much out of….and of course, on the opposite end of the spectrum someone who wants to share their opinion on another thread about how DJones is not good enough, can use these thread titles to pile on……again and again and again……..
There are 100 threads on the Oline also. Has that been discussed to death? Should we not talk about it because threads have already been posted about it?
If you don't want to read about Daniel Jones anymore I get it. But it is really simple to avoid those discussions so I don't understand why people get upset just because they exist.
you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.
...
The surrounding talent for Jones certainly hasn't been best in the NFL.
But that doesn't mean Jones still can't be evaluated after his 37 starts. That's a lot of plays and data over that time. And we can look for specific traits to study.
The professionals feel otherwise. They specifically said he has not had an environment which would yeild an accurate evaluation. . [/quote]
A question: why is it okay to evaluate a player at the college level in poor environments and decide to draft them, but it you can't accurately evaluate a player in your own building that you see every day in poor environments?
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you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.
...
The surrounding talent for Jones certainly hasn't been best in the NFL.
But that doesn't mean Jones still can't be evaluated after his 37 starts. That's a lot of plays and data over that time. And we can look for specific traits to study.
The professionals feel otherwise. They specifically said he has not had an environment which would yeild an accurate evaluation. .
A question: why is it okay to evaluate a player at the college level in poor environments and decide to draft them, but it you can't accurately evaluate a player in your own building that you see every day in poor environments? [/quote]
People who believe 37 NFL starts provide literally no information to evaluate about Daniel Jones are simply making excuses. They are also typically the ones who are saying "I'm glad they didn't draft Justin Fields because he sucks" after 12 starts.
So many threads say the same thing albeit with slightly different words.
The best threads are the ones that are fact driven, not just someone’s opinions.
One thing I do like a lot about BBI- the thread titles. I can pretty much weed out the threads that i know i won’t get much out of….and of course, on the opposite end of the spectrum someone who wants to share their opinion on another thread about how DJones is not good enough, can use these thread titles to pile on……again and again and again……..
pure comic relief that this got double-posted...
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you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.
...
The surrounding talent for Jones certainly hasn't been best in the NFL.
But that doesn't mean Jones still can't be evaluated after his 37 starts. That's a lot of plays and data over that time. And we can look for specific traits to study.
The professionals feel otherwise. They specifically said he has not had an environment which would yeild an accurate evaluation. .
A question: why is it okay to evaluate a player at the college level in poor environments and decide to draft them, but it you can't accurately evaluate a player in your own building that you see every day in poor environments? [/quote]
For starters, the draft is not a science. You collect what info you can and hope for the best. You have no other choice. A lot of it is projection and they get it wrong plenty. And it’s not just a translation to a different league that causes busts, it’s sometimes money, fame, complacency, inability to grasp the mental side, difficulty in being a professional
In terms of evaluating guys in your own building. None other f the players have been “in the building” with the coaches. Daboll said evaluation of practice is a big part of evaluating players. That and when any outsider watches film it is tough to evaluate because we don’t know what was supposed to happen on a play or how it was coached. So the results don’t tell the whole story.
But the main point is that we have a professional front office and coaches that feel that A. Jones eval is incomplete and B. As of May Jones gives the team the best chance to win.
People who believe 37 NFL starts provide literally no information to evaluate about Daniel Jones are simply making excuses. They are also typically the ones who are saying "I'm glad they didn't draft Justin Fields because he sucks" after 12 starts. [/quote]
“Literally” no information? I’m gonna assume you mean that figuratively because no one has even come close to implying anything like that.
qb is hard to evaluate. Look at darnold, baker, Murray, Jackson. They all have more the 37 starts and they either got a tag that the team regretted (missed eval) or have not been extended (incomplete)
Some good qbs needed a lot of time before they took off and they all struggled early for more than one specific reason. No qb is created equal. No situation is the same.
Jones is getting another chance because the 3rd staff to coach him feels he’s worth the time and effort. That’s all that matters at this point.
Maybe the coaching is better and maybe the talent is better around Jones. Maybe he needed four years and maybe five years from now we’re all acknowledging that it took a lot of bad things to hinder things and a lot of good things to help Jones win.
Or maybe he washes out and is benched or hurt by November. I’m happy that this staff is focusing more on playmaking and less on mistakes. I feel like Jim fassel came in here with a similar feel and approach and it helped lead the giant out of the last dreadful phase they were in.
The same rationales are being offered now that were offered for Jones at Duke- it's the receivers, it's the o-line, it's the scheme yada, yada, yada. Maybe it's Jones- zero star recruit, limited qb who got as far as he did with professional-level college coaching and his passing resemblance to a Manning. We are not moving on this year for financial and draft scarcity reasons, unless he stinks or gets hurt in which case Taylor will Wally Pipp Jones and that will be that.
Under Shurmur he looked really good his 1st year. If you look at our last 3 coaches prior to Daboll the offense was by far the best under Shurmur and by far the worst under Judge.
Our WR talent pretty much bottom 3rd
Our OL talent definitely bottom 3rd
RB situation probably bottom 3rd last 2 years
Offensive scheme bottom 3rd under Judge and may have been the worst in the league
I think the OL looks much improved, the WRs if healthy will be put in position to succeed, Barkley should be healthy and the RBs overall have a different look.
The offensive scheme should have a dramatic effect on DJ and the entire offense. I think DJ will thrive in an offense like KC and Buffalo and his skills as a runner will be utilized to open things up as well.
I dont think many QBs could have been successful in the situation the last 2 seasons and if you look at what happened after Jones went down the offense fell of a cliff. Usually you see some dropoff in play with a backup but our offense was non existent after he went down. I think Jones can slide into the top part of the 2nd tier QBs, thats probably his ceiling. So I would say in the 10 - 20 range of QBs which you can win with. Our talent on this team overall was bottom 5 last year, its still bad but its getting better.
Out resident experts- on nothing.
Would anyone here really say ANY player on this roster can be truly evaluated just from the last two years? Thomas and McKinney, yes, but not much else.
So if you remove these two waste of time years (which the naysayers will not- doesn’t fit their narrative), you have essentially on promising rookie season for Jones. THAT’s what Schoen and Daboll are looking at to see if that can be a jumping off point for Jones to grow from. Not the last two years.
Some people here think elite QBs grow on trees. Just keep dumping one after another, pick a new one every year until you get it right. (Terps idea). Salary cap doesn’t work like that, first order of business is to find a QB that you “could” win with. As with all positions, you are constantly looking for an upgrade.
With a proper, functional system, Jones is probably a middle of the pack starter, top 10’in a career year (not unlike Eli). For a start, management would take that.
Gettleman fucked everything else up, but he got Jones right?
Jones is getting miles of leash while everyone else gets none. Never made sense.
You said their was not one player you would keep on this team. So now you change your tune. Whatever fits your DJ sucks agenda.
Out resident experts- on nothing.
Would anyone here really say ANY player on this roster can be truly evaluated just from the last two years? Thomas and McKinney, yes, but not much else.
So if you remove these two waste of time years (which the naysayers will not- doesn’t fit their narrative), you have essentially on promising rookie season for Jones. THAT’s what Schoen and Daboll are looking at to see if that can be a jumping off point for Jones to grow from. Not the last two years.
Some people here think elite QBs grow on trees. Just keep dumping one after another, pick a new one every year until you get it right. (Terps idea). Salary cap doesn’t work like that, first order of business is to find a QB that you “could” win with. As with all positions, you are constantly looking for an upgrade.
With a proper, functional system, Jones is probably a middle of the pack starter, top 10’in a career year (not unlike Eli). For a start, management would take that.
Lol, ignoring two years worth of information is creating a narrative. BW, GT, etc are using 7+ years of information to form their opinion on.
You don't just get to say "these years don't really count"
That is all it is. The "experts" saying this are guilty of the same offense. You folks don't even want people with opinions different than your own to type on fan board. Let's be honest, all of this whining,
"Terps and BW have to come and complain about Jones everywhere but see no problems when people post about their undeserved faith in Jones. That faith is undeserved, it isn't a debate. He has not succeeded anywhere. a light might go off, sure, but how likely is that?
Confirmation Bias
The confirmation bias is the tendency to listen more often to information that confirms our existing beliefs. Through this bias, people tend to favor information that reinforces the things they already think or believe.
Examples include:
Only paying attention to information that confirms your beliefs about issues such as gun control and global warming
Only following people on social media who share your viewpoints
Choosing news sources that present stories that support your views
Refusing to listen to the opposing side
Not considering all of the facts in a logical and rational manner
There are a few reasons why this happens. One is that only seeking to confirm existing opinions helps limit mental resources we need to use to make decisions. It also helps protect self-esteem by making people feel that their beliefs are accurate.
People on two sides of an issue can listen to the same story and walk away with different interpretations that they feel validates their existing point of view. This is often indicative that the confirmation bias is working to "bias" their opinions.
The problem with this is that it can lead to poor choices, an inability to listen to opposing views, or even contribute to othering people who hold different opinions.
BBI encapsulated.
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and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.
Elite speed? He ran 4.8 40
On the Jones face plant run vs the Eagles, his top speed was 21.23 mph, higher than any qb since 2018, and that includes Lamar Jackson. Thats more indicative of elite speed than a 40 time at a combine.
Daniel Jones speed - ( New Window )
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In comment 15717485 OBJ_AllDay said:
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and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.
Elite speed? He ran 4.8 40
On the Jones face plant run vs the Eagles, his top speed was 21.23 mph, higher than any qb since 2018, and that includes Lamar Jackson. Thats more indicative of elite speed than a 40 time at a combine. Daniel Jones speed - ( New Window )
Sure, that's one play. I don't anyone thinks of Jones as a running QB like Jackson. Jones only threat when he runs is to himself
Good to see him practicing scrambling drills, in theory he has as much (or little) short area quickness as Josh Allen, but Allen seems to be able to escape and punish a D.
That is all it is. The "experts" saying this are guilty of the same offense. You folks don't even want people with opinions different than your own to type on fan board. Let's be honest, all of this whining,
"Terps and BW have to come and complain about Jones everywhere but see no problems when people post about their undeserved faith in Jones. That faith is undeserved, it isn't a debate. He has not succeeded anywhere. a light might go off, sure, but how likely is that?
Confirmation Bias
The confirmation bias is the tendency to listen more often to information that confirms our existing beliefs. Through this bias, people tend to favor information that reinforces the things they already think or believe.
Examples include:
Only paying attention to information that confirms your beliefs about issues such as gun control and global warming
Only following people on social media who share your viewpoints
Choosing news sources that present stories that support your views
Refusing to listen to the opposing side
Not considering all of the facts in a logical and rational manner
There are a few reasons why this happens. One is that only seeking to confirm existing opinions helps limit mental resources we need to use to make decisions. It also helps protect self-esteem by making people feel that their beliefs are accurate.
People on two sides of an issue can listen to the same story and walk away with different interpretations that they feel validates their existing point of view. This is often indicative that the confirmation bias is working to "bias" their opinions.
The problem with this is that it can lead to poor choices, an inability to listen to opposing views, or even contribute to othering people who hold different opinions.
BBI encapsulated.
yep.. confirmation bias rules here at BBI.
I probably think less of Jones than Terps and bw do. I can't understand why (and it drives me crazy) why we are still bothering with Jones heading into 2022.
I probably think less of Jones than Terps and bw do. I can't understand why (and it drives me crazy) why we are still bothering with Jones heading into 2022.
We have to *evaluate* him, Route.
I probably think less of Jones than Terps and bw do. I can't understand why (and it drives me crazy) why we are still bothering with Jones heading into 2022.
Well if we want a chance at Stroud or another top QB - isn’t Jones are best option?
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How can you evaluate the OL when they're blocking for a QB as good as Jones? People are comfortable evaluating Evan Engram; how can you evaluate him when Jones was his QB?
Gettleman fucked everything else up, but he got Jones right?
Jones is getting miles of leash while everyone else gets none. Never made sense.
You said their was not one player you would keep on this team. So now you change your tune. Whatever fits your DJ sucks agenda.
I'm not changing my tune. Just pointing out the inconsistency in the argument blaming everyone else for Jones's inarguable lack of performance.
I have to say it's the first time I've seen the argument for a failed first round QB made with such frequency. I don't recall reading that Jake Locker was a victim of his offensive line, or Christian Ponder was a good player but had no receivers, or Blaine Gabbert was the victim of his poor coaches. Everyone was pretty comfortable just saying they weren't good.
But with Jones it's been very different here. Wonder why.
Some of the worst GMs of all time drafted HOF players.
He's getting this year. Wait it out.
But I am looking forward to seeing how things unfold anything is possible, especially when it comes to QB development.
But I am looking forward to seeing how things unfold anything is possible, especially when it comes to QB development.
I don't even think he makes it to December.
I do have him getting benched in early October. He'll probably find his way to the field again and then get hurt very quickly.
It's happened before. If it didn't happen before GMs and HCs wouldn't go down with the ship time and time again. Not an exact science.
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In comment 15717777 Go Terps said:
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How can you evaluate the OL when they're blocking for a QB as good as Jones? People are comfortable evaluating Evan Engram; how can you evaluate him when Jones was his QB?
Gettleman fucked everything else up, but he got Jones right?
Jones is getting miles of leash while everyone else gets none. Never made sense.
You said their was not one player you would keep on this team. So now you change your tune. Whatever fits your DJ sucks agenda.
I'm not changing my tune. Just pointing out the inconsistency in the argument blaming everyone else for Jones's inarguable lack of performance.
I have to say it's the first time I've seen the argument for a failed first round QB made with such frequency. I don't recall reading that Jake Locker was a victim of his offensive line, or Christian Ponder was a good player but had no receivers, or Blaine Gabbert was the victim of his poor coaches. Everyone was pretty comfortable just saying they weren't good.
But with Jones it's been very different here. Wonder why.
Wonder Why?
A) The frequency with which a few of you post your know it all opinions in your typical condescending manner, On almost every BBI thread created on a daily basis, about how obvious it is to you armchair GMs / QB whisperers that you have the inside track on who is and who isn't a bonafide NFL QB.
B) The fact that no one else on the planet is putting him on the level of Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, or Blaine Gabbert. You know except for you.
I don't know why I allow myself to get sucked into these threads again... and again... lol. I won't be torn up if Schoen/Daboll move on from him. I'd like to see him thrive in a good system with better teammates. If he doesn't, oh well. I'll root for the next QB up to do well and win games. But the level of obsessiveness some of you have in pointing out how much he sucks and that you know for a fact that your opinion trumps all others on this site... in thousands of posts in thousands of threads, over and over and over and ove.....
It's just absurd, really, at this point. Not sure why so many people get triggered over the fact that other people on this site would like the guy to succeed. I don't know that he ever becomes more than a middle of the road starter in this league, but as I've said probably 1000x now I want him to kick ass and chew bubblegum just so you fellas might realize the absolutes you throw around are... well, silly.
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In comment 15717566 uther99 said:
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In comment 15717485 OBJ_AllDay said:
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and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.
Elite speed? He ran 4.8 40
On the Jones face plant run vs the Eagles, his top speed was 21.23 mph, higher than any qb since 2018, and that includes Lamar Jackson. Thats more indicative of elite speed than a 40 time at a combine. Daniel Jones speed - ( New Window )
Sure, that's one play. I don't anyone thinks of Jones as a running QB like Jackson. Jones only threat when he runs is to himself
Thats one play that almost any other qb couldn't do because they don't have Jones speed.
If you think that Jones is not a true threat to run, then I don't know what team you were watching the past 3 years but it definitely wasn't the Giants.
I probably think less of Jones than Terps and bw do. I can't understand why (and it drives me crazy) why we are still bothering with Jones heading into 2022.
Because the draft was QB weak at the top based on our GM's perceptions. We didn't want Russel Wilson (LOL) and Jones is the best QB on the roster. And he was already signed.
This happened before with Dave Brown. If Jones falls again you won't have DJ to kick around anymore. It's shit or get off the pot time.
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gun to my head? I think Jones won't be the QB by December. I think he gets hurt again, finds the bench and isn't re-signed in the offseason and becomes another team's problem in 2023.
But I am looking forward to seeing how things unfold anything is possible, especially when it comes to QB development.
I don't even think he makes it to December.
I do have him getting benched in early October. He'll probably find his way to the field again and then get hurt very quickly.
Yea it's certainly possible. He's going to have to make plays out there and that means more aggressiveness. That could be trouble--but I am excited to see how things unfold. I hated how he played in 2021 much more so than how he played 2019, turnovers and all.
It's not like the Giants went out of the way to acquire Jones this offseason. They didn't sign him this offseason to a longer deal. They already had him. He's got one more year. It makes sense to give him the first few weeks and see where it goes.
The Giants have historically been painstakingly patient with first round draft picks, especially QBs. Sometimes to a fault. Sometimes not.
Look at guys like Ereck Flowers if you don't believe me. Guy got chance after chance here. And he was more un-coachable than Jones ever was.
Who gives a shit what we want?
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you can't say the guy hasn't been given enough chances.
Getting a fourth chance to show something in today's game, where economic forces dictate shorter and shorter timelines to prove ability, is very generous.
Look, Jones plays the most vital position in the game as a high investment. With that should come the scrutiny we have at BBI. I think it's healthy debate if you don't get it personally, which too many do...
There you go. This was not about DJ but if his name is mentioned some of the same have people have got to make a negative comment.
Where was the negative comment in this post?
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In comment 15717485 OBJ_AllDay said:
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and might be shell shocked. But he has 2 things hard to find in a qb. Elite speed and a great deep ball. He needs to perform this year. No excuses.
Elite speed? He ran 4.8 40
On the Jones face plant run vs the Eagles, his top speed was 21.23 mph, higher than any qb since 2018, and that includes Lamar Jackson. Thats more indicative of elite speed than a 40 time at a combine. Daniel Jones speed - ( New Window )
It's really not, unless you know DJ's acceleration rate and what his speed was at several intervals along the way.
Running 21.23mph means almost nothing if it took DJ 50 yards to reach that velocity, because he will so rarely have enough runway to achieve that speed in the normal course of the game.
A jumbo jet can go a hell of a lot faster than a Ferrari at top speed, but I'd bet on the latter in a 100-yard race from a cold start.
Or Brady against Ny in the Superbowls when we had pass rush.
No quarterback is good when the O line stinks.
Name me the quarterback who is consistently good behind a shit o line?
I can't think of a single one.
Eli NFC Championship @SF He was mugged the entire game,yet got us to the Super Bowl
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When his line stunk.
Or Brady against Ny in the Superbowls when we had pass rush.
No quarterback is good when the O line stinks.
Name me the quarterback who is consistently good behind a shit o line?
I can't think of a single one.
Eli NFC Championship @SF He was mugged the entire game,yet got us to the Super Bowl
lol
You are going to compare the team that played in the 2011 NFC title game to last years Giants.
And against a world class defensive team.
L
O
Fucking L
and
HOLY
SHIT