Obviously this will provoke some very angry responses, like "click bait" and "yea, anonymous source"...."we don't know yet", etc etc....buuut does he have a point?
Is TJ Watt an athletic freak? Was Demarcus Ware an Athletic freak? Are either Bosa brothers athletic freaks? This is so stupid. He's not an athletic freak but he was the #1 recruit coming out of HS and was the projected #1 overall draft pick for a large part of the draft process but yeah what a reach, he shouldn't have been a first rounder I guess. So stupid.
the exec's comments were mostly fair imo. he said Thibodeaux shouldn't be expected to blow up the league like Von Miller or Jevon Kearse did - which is obvious. No rookie should reasonably walk in with the expectations of leading the league in sacks and being a day 1 all pro. Walker and Hutchinson are no different. The Bosas were both obviously very good right away and won ROY but weren't all pros/DPOY as rookies either. In fact I dont think either has made an all pro team yet.
the exec's comments were mostly fair imo. he said Thibodeaux shouldn't be expected to blow up the league like Von Miller or Jevon Kearse did - which is obvious. No rookie should reasonably walk in with the expectations of leading the league in sacks and being a day 1 all pro. Walker and Hutchinson are no different. The Bosas were both obviously very good right away and won ROY but weren't all pros/DPOY as rookies either. In fact I dont think either has made an all pro team yet.
This is why it drives me nuts when the secondary source deliberately or unintentionally takes the original source out of context or misreads the material. It happens all of the time. Also, headlines often don't match the article's content and people just go with the headline.
RE: RE: this is clickbait taking Dan Duggan's article yesterday out of context
the exec's comments were mostly fair imo. he said Thibodeaux shouldn't be expected to blow up the league like Von Miller or Jevon Kearse did - which is obvious. No rookie should reasonably walk in with the expectations of leading the league in sacks and being a day 1 all pro. Walker and Hutchinson are no different. The Bosas were both obviously very good right away and won ROY but weren't all pros/DPOY as rookies either. In fact I dont think either has made an all pro team yet.
This is why it drives me nuts when the secondary source deliberately or unintentionally takes the original source out of context or misreads the material. It happens all of the time. Also, headlines often don't match the article's content and people just go with the headline.
that's the world we live in - as long as secondary outlets can make $ on traffic it's going to happen all we can do is try to not take the bait and stick to reliable writers/outlets.
First off, I think the not a great athlete thing is BS...
...but also having a rookie that is a technician IS A GOOD THING.
Jevon Kearse was a shadow of himself after he got hurt after his 3rd season, and that's because he relied solely on his athleticism and didn't have good pass rush technique.
Similarly, it took JPP years to refine his pass rush moves to make up for his lack of athleticism after he hurt his back. And he still has had only three years of double digit sacks in his career.
Compare them to someone like Terrel Suggs, someone pegged as "not a great athlete" who was a force for over 15 years. Or Elvis Dumervil who had 105 sacks in 11 seasons.
So really not sure what the fuck this NFL executive is talking about. So dumb.
The sports science/trainer at Alabama said Neal's jumping power was the most impressive he had ever seen, and that's Alabama not Bumfuck Community College. Saying he's "not athletic" is simply an inaccurate statement. He doesn't truck people as often as Ekwonu did and he sometimes falls to the ground a little too often, but the man is a monster of an athlete.
I kind of get what he's saying about Thibs athletically, that he's not an A++ athlete like a Myles Garrett or Von Miller or Travon Walker. But he's still a very good athlete, and comparable to plenty of guys who rack up elite sack totals. His athleticism won't be what limits him to 6-8 sacks.
His general comments about how Thibs is a technician also seems to go against what I've read from most others. In particular, hand usage is something that he's been criticized for yet this guy says he does great there.
I'm going to ignore this anonymous scout because his opinions just seem dumb.
this might be a concern. But you're drafting based on their skills on the football field. It takes a lot more than being an elite athlete to be a great football player. Does it help? Sure. But is it necessary?
Mike Mamula was a great athlete. How'd he work out for the Eagles? There are lots of great athletes who never made an NFL roster after getting drafted.
Jerry Rice was most certainly not an elite athlete. Burress wasn't an elite athlete. Evans in Tampa Bay is not an elite athlete. Brady didn't even look like a football player when he was drafted. But they are all damn good football players, better than most every guy picked above them.
I'll also question his rationale on Neal. For a guy his size he is a phenomenal athlete. For a guy 6-4, 300, maybe he's a very good athlete. But he's not 6-4, 300 pounds. If he were we might have taken Cross instead.
Neal isn’t a “freak” athletes, I would like to know what his definition is. Just yesterday, they had a sprint race between ALL true OL, and Neal beat all their asses at 6-7 340. Some guys are just dumb asses and should keep their mouths shut. Plus, he’s analyzing KT’s athleticism from this past year when he played the whole season on a bad ankle. Just stupid, lazy analysis,
I think he’s just going to be a really steady six-to-eight-sack guy that’ll be a productive pass rusher in this league, primarily because of his hand use.
Re Neal:
Quote:
“He’s not this sudden, quick-footed, ballerina dancing bear type of a left tackle,” the executive said. “He’s more of a controlled athlete rather than a quick-twitch explosive athlete.
I think he’s just going to be a really steady six-to-eight-sack guy that’ll be a productive pass rusher in this league, primarily because of his hand use.
Re Neal:
Quote:
“He’s not this sudden, quick-footed, ballerina dancing bear type of a left tackle,” the executive said. “He’s more of a controlled athlete rather than a quick-twitch explosive athlete.
KT’s get off and ability to bend the corner are absolutely elite. Guys with that combination are extremely rare. Neal is absurdly athletic for a 6’7” 350 lb man. He dwarfs even NFL players and he’s talking about ballerinas. How do you not see through a guy obviously looking for something negative to say.
i think the criticism of neal that he's not a dancing bear is fair
the absolute best blue chip left tackles are almost always well balanced with exceptional footwork/movement - but that's usually the trade off with players who have elite size. Neal is a big guy who is an uncommonly good athlete for his size but not as fluid as David Bakhtiari (which is logical because he's almost 50 pounds heavier).
KT’s get off and ability to bend the corner are absolutely elite. Guys with that combination are extremely rare. Neal is absurdly athletic for a 6’7” 350 lb man. He dwarfs even NFL players and he’s talking about ballerinas. How do you not see through a guy obviously looking for something negative to say.
Yea I completely agree. What are more important athletic traits for a pass rusher than bend and get off?
I don’t think anyone can doubt that he was the best in the class for both of those traits. Also I think he’s a better athlete than Hutchinson, not sure if that means he’ll have a better career but it really seems weird to criticize KT’s athletic ability out of all things.
Its one persons opinion, he didnt or couldnt put his name to it. It doesnt really matter I see a football player. He could also say Robinson isnt very big and that would be true but he is also a football player.
Either way you look at it, they were both top players in the draft no matter how you rank them and as we have seen Dallas had them 1-2. Im sure some teams had them lower.
that are either as athletic or less athletic than Neal that have had great careers. I can also think of several great athletes that couldn't cut it in the NFL.
Is TJ Watt an athletic freak? Was Demarcus Ware an Athletic freak? Are either Bosa brothers athletic freaks? This is so stupid. He's not an athletic freak but he was the #1 recruit coming out of HS and was the projected #1 overall draft pick for a large part of the draft process but yeah what a reach, he shouldn't have been a first rounder I guess. So stupid.
Actually, every guy you mentioned are athletic freaks. Lmao.
Both guys are clear solid picks from a talent perspective
Especially with KT, said it yesterday his athletic profile matches up well with guys like Demarcus Ware and also Khalil Mack..both of who were 23 year old 4 year starters coming out..KT I will play the season at 21 years of age and yet his athletic profile matches up with the Wares and the Macks..that’s freaky enough for me..even if it’s a shade off the 9.99/10s put up by Von Miller and Kearse.
He was drafted by the Giants SOLEY because they recognized
his potential. When he got here, he was unstoppable. There are several here who disagree with me, but I stand firm on this - NOBODY has ver come around the edge with the lean JPP had, when he was healthy.
Injuries wrecked his career - the herniated back, the rotator cuff shoulder, and of course when he blew up his hand
Dallas-who have done a good job drafting lately-had
Look, I wanted CB Gardner but he was off the board.
Neal will be a superb RT in this league, a very dominant run blocker and perhaps average pass protector.
I see Thibs as a 10 sack type guy who may not necessarily need double teaming to stop but will certainly make his presence known.
Both players along with Robinson will be starters in this league for a long time.
Listen to the experts here. For one, how about Sy's evaluation? Floor is Kareem McKenzie. Floor.
I was also listenting to Chris Bisignano's podcast. CB was at Giants OTAs and said he's never seen a guy as big as Neal with those movement skills. Explodes out of his stance. Looks trim at 350. He absolutely has freakish movement skills for a guy 350 lbs. and he can probably play LT, too.
I am really glad DAL didn't get this guy because he's one of those dominant OLs they always seem to have.
I think the view that Thibs and Neal are not elite athletes is a view held by very few professional scouts.
Who is this executive?
His comments do not pass the smell test.
It sounds like someone with an axe to grind.
For one he would be at odds with the no just the Giants but with the Cowboys who had Thibodeaux and Neal one / two on their draft board.
Also it should be noted that Neal was number one on Feldman's freak list and scored off the charts with his power and explosion.
Evan Neal box jump - ( New Window )
This is why it drives me nuts when the secondary source deliberately or unintentionally takes the original source out of context or misreads the material. It happens all of the time. Also, headlines often don't match the article's content and people just go with the headline.
Quote:
the exec's comments were mostly fair imo. he said Thibodeaux shouldn't be expected to blow up the league like Von Miller or Jevon Kearse did - which is obvious. No rookie should reasonably walk in with the expectations of leading the league in sacks and being a day 1 all pro. Walker and Hutchinson are no different. The Bosas were both obviously very good right away and won ROY but weren't all pros/DPOY as rookies either. In fact I dont think either has made an all pro team yet.
This is why it drives me nuts when the secondary source deliberately or unintentionally takes the original source out of context or misreads the material. It happens all of the time. Also, headlines often don't match the article's content and people just go with the headline.
that's the world we live in - as long as secondary outlets can make $ on traffic it's going to happen all we can do is try to not take the bait and stick to reliable writers/outlets.
Jevon Kearse was a shadow of himself after he got hurt after his 3rd season, and that's because he relied solely on his athleticism and didn't have good pass rush technique.
Similarly, it took JPP years to refine his pass rush moves to make up for his lack of athleticism after he hurt his back. And he still has had only three years of double digit sacks in his career.
Compare them to someone like Terrel Suggs, someone pegged as "not a great athlete" who was a force for over 15 years. Or Elvis Dumervil who had 105 sacks in 11 seasons.
So really not sure what the fuck this NFL executive is talking about. So dumb.
I kind of get what he's saying about Thibs athletically, that he's not an A++ athlete like a Myles Garrett or Von Miller or Travon Walker. But he's still a very good athlete, and comparable to plenty of guys who rack up elite sack totals. His athleticism won't be what limits him to 6-8 sacks.
His general comments about how Thibs is a technician also seems to go against what I've read from most others. In particular, hand usage is something that he's been criticized for yet this guy says he does great there.
I'm going to ignore this anonymous scout because his opinions just seem dumb.
The Giants drafted 2 football players. I dont think this draft could have gone any better to fill their needs.
Mike Mamula was a great athlete. How'd he work out for the Eagles? There are lots of great athletes who never made an NFL roster after getting drafted.
Jerry Rice was most certainly not an elite athlete. Burress wasn't an elite athlete. Evans in Tampa Bay is not an elite athlete. Brady didn't even look like a football player when he was drafted. But they are all damn good football players, better than most every guy picked above them.
I'll also question his rationale on Neal. For a guy his size he is a phenomenal athlete. For a guy 6-4, 300, maybe he's a very good athlete. But he's not 6-4, 300 pounds. If he were we might have taken Cross instead.
The exec quotes in The Athletic said
Re Thibodeaux:
Re Neal:
The draft is filled with busts every year who were "Freak athletes."
Thibs and Neal can play.
Evan Engram was one.
Barkley was one.
Give me good players, let the other teams have the freaks.
Quote:
yesterday.
The exec quotes in The Athletic said
Re Thibodeaux:
Quote:
I think he’s just going to be a really steady six-to-eight-sack guy that’ll be a productive pass rusher in this league, primarily because of his hand use.
Re Neal:
Quote:
“He’s not this sudden, quick-footed, ballerina dancing bear type of a left tackle,” the executive said. “He’s more of a controlled athlete rather than a quick-twitch explosive athlete.
Good thing we drafted him to play right tackle.
But most men of any weight can't do this. He's an athlete.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11QBRirXSm4 - ( New Window )
In this case,I'd say he's half right.I think Thibodeaux is a good enough athlete,while Neal might end up at guard.
In this case,I'd say he's half right.I think Thibodeaux is a good enough athlete,while Neal might end up at guard.
He’ll never play a single snap at guard ever.
We'll find out. Not the first time I've read these types of statements
Quote:
He’ll never play a single snap at guard ever.
We'll find out. Not the first time I've read these types of statements
Same can be said about yours.
Yea I completely agree. What are more important athletic traits for a pass rusher than bend and get off?
I don’t think anyone can doubt that he was the best in the class for both of those traits. Also I think he’s a better athlete than Hutchinson, not sure if that means he’ll have a better career but it really seems weird to criticize KT’s athletic ability out of all things.
Either way you look at it, they were both top players in the draft no matter how you rank them and as we have seen Dallas had them 1-2. Im sure some teams had them lower.
Actually, every guy you mentioned are athletic freaks. Lmao.
But let’s not forget if Schoen had his way our two picks would have likely been Gardner and Ekwonu, with probably an Edge Rusher coming in Rd2.
As with every draft, will need to see how the guys all perform on the field of play before grading how we did...
Doesn't remember this back-flip exhibition -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4-1e6Faglw
He played one year at South Florida; his stats were by no means noteworthy ...
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jason-pierre-paul-1.html
He was drafted by the Giants SOLEY because they recognized
his potential. When he got here, he was unstoppable. There are several here who disagree with me, but I stand firm on this - NOBODY has ver come around the edge with the lean JPP had, when he was healthy.
Injuries wrecked his career - the herniated back, the rotator cuff shoulder, and of course when he blew up his hand
This was the comment I came to post but I guess I'm not the only genius around here.
Neal will be a superb RT in this league, a very dominant run blocker and perhaps average pass protector.
I see Thibs as a 10 sack type guy who may not necessarily need double teaming to stop but will certainly make his presence known.
Both players along with Robinson will be starters in this league for a long time.
I was also listenting to Chris Bisignano's podcast. CB was at Giants OTAs and said he's never seen a guy as big as Neal with those movement skills. Explodes out of his stance. Looks trim at 350. He absolutely has freakish movement skills for a guy 350 lbs. and he can probably play LT, too.
I am really glad DAL didn't get this guy because he's one of those dominant OLs they always seem to have.