I mean if your 5th wideout is as good as your first, either your first isn't very good or your team is built oddly. You find a role that the 5th receiver can do. Maybe his only job is to take the top off or put a defender in conflict by occupying a zone and you find a player that can play that role.
My favorite combo would be Barkley, Breida, Toney, Robinson and Golladay. Four guys you could line up anywhere and motion around, that can take any play to the house, and Golladay as the possession receiver who should thrive in single coverage.
Next fav would be substituting Bellinger for Breida on early downs to show more of a run look and play action to still send everyone out on routes.
Shepard, Slayton and the rest provide good depth at the “receiver” positions.
Far. They just want to spread the coverage. I suspect this offense will consist of Jones first read, maybe second read, then get rid of it to whoever you see with a blue helmet or run it.
Seals-Jones or Breida could also split out as the fifth receiver.
I mean if your 5th wideout is as good as your first, either your first isn't very good or your team is built oddly. You find a role that the 5th receiver can do. Maybe his only job is to take the top off or put a defender in conflict by occupying a zone and you find a player that can play that role.
You make a real good point. The question came to mind after reviewing BBI's roster page of wide receivers. The list looked very thin to me on overall quality. Very thin:
19 Kenny Golladay
86 Darius Slayton
89 Kadarius Toney
3 Sterling Shepard
17 Wan’Dale Robinson
18 C.J. Board WR
15 Collin Johnson
84 David Sills WR
81 Alex Bachman WR
13 Travis Toivonen
87 Austin Proehl
82 Robert Foster
80 Richie James WR
Joe Schoen's 2023 Year-2 Re-Build should probably include WR, not to mention D-Line, ILB and CB.
RE: It doesn’t matter who the 5th receiver is, Jones will never get that
Far. They just want to spread the coverage. I suspect this offense will consist of Jones first read, maybe second read, then get rid of it to whoever you see with a blue helmet or run it.
You could be right about that. I have a soft spot for Daniel Jones, but I'll be the first to admit that I don't think he has an intuitive feel of coverages once the play gets underway.
simplified their offenses for their young QB and had some success like Kingsbury, Shanahan, McVay, Pederson and Harbaugh.
Defenses can disguise so much nowadays I would not expect a young QB to have an 'intuitive' feel of coverage or diagnose everything pre-snap. Certainly trying to recreate Eli is a big blunder in general.
I mean if your 5th wideout is as good as your first, either your first isn't very good or your team is built oddly. You find a role that the 5th receiver can do. Maybe his only job is to take the top off or put a defender in conflict by occupying a zone and you find a player that can play that role.
You make a real good point. The question came to mind after reviewing BBI's roster page of wide receivers. The list looked very thin to me on overall quality. Very thin:
19 Kenny Golladay
86 Darius Slayton
89 Kadarius Toney
3 Sterling Shepard
17 Wan’Dale Robinson
18 C.J. Board WR
15 Collin Johnson
84 David Sills WR
81 Alex Bachman WR
13 Travis Toivonen
87 Austin Proehl
82 Robert Foster
80 Richie James WR
Joe Schoen's 2023 Year-2 Re-Build should probably include WR, not to mention D-Line, ILB and CB.
It's not a super strong group, but you still have a recent first/second rounder, a former Pro Bowl WR who would still be a #1 on a lot of teams, and if Shep and Slayton areyour 4th and 5th that really isn't a bad group. It's not top 10 in the league, but it's probably not bottom 10 either.
The year we won the Superbowl, 4, 5 and 6 were Derek Hagan, Ramses Barden and Hixon who tore his ACL.
I mean if your 5th wideout is as good as your first, either your first isn't very good or your team is built oddly. You find a role that the 5th receiver can do. Maybe his only job is to take the top off or put a defender in conflict by occupying a zone and you find a player that can play that role.
You make a real good point. The question came to mind after reviewing BBI's roster page of wide receivers. The list looked very thin to me on overall quality. Very thin:
19 Kenny Golladay
86 Darius Slayton
89 Kadarius Toney
3 Sterling Shepard
17 Wan’Dale Robinson
18 C.J. Board WR
15 Collin Johnson
84 David Sills WR
81 Alex Bachman WR
13 Travis Toivonen
87 Austin Proehl
82 Robert Foster
80 Richie James WR
Joe Schoen's 2023 Year-2 Re-Build should probably include WR, not to mention D-Line, ILB and CB.
It's not a super strong group, but you still have a recent first/second rounder, a former Pro Bowl WR who would still be a #1 on a lot of teams, and if Shep and Slayton areyour 4th and 5th that really isn't a bad group. It's not top 10 in the league, but it's probably not bottom 10 either.
The year we won the Superbowl, 4, 5 and 6 were Derek Hagan, Ramses Barden and Hixon who tore his ACL.
Basically this.
Maybe this is semantics, but I would actually argue the WR is not a 'thin' group at all. It's weak at the top - the Giants don't have that 'go to' stud who teams have to be afraid of. But you could tell me that any of Golladay, Toney, Robinson, or Shephard led the team in catches next year and I'd believe it's possible.
Have we even had 5 healthy WRs able to play at the same time
No, I think injuries have buried any chance for that year after year. Not that prior regimes were looking to go that route. I think 5 WR is a stretch, more common to go 4wr and motion back to empty set. True 5 WR sets seem pretty rare.
Far. They just want to spread the coverage. I suspect this offense will consist of Jones first read, maybe second read, then get rid of it to whoever you see with a blue helmet or run it.
This 100%. I expect Jones to just throw it underneath to whoever is closest and it either resulting in an immediate tackle short of the sticks or an incomplete pass because the closest guy was not really open.
used Hostetler as a WR. Actually a 4th--I don't remember them ever going 5 WR. I doubt this year's group will be thinner than that.
An in a 5 WR set, your 5th WR is not necessarily the QB's 5th read.
1986 Giants played in a complete different times. They had 2 great running back that could catch passes and a full back that could do the same and great Tight ends that could as well. You didn’t use shotgun unless you wrrr passing and defenses didn’t get called for every little thing. Did hos ever catch a pass ? Or was he out there as a decoy/ trick play?
who can process pre and post snap very quickly. That has not been the Giants in over a decade. I don't expect it will be the Giants in 2022. It would be great if I'm wrong.
RE: Empty backfield requires a very good OL and a QB
who can process pre and post snap very quickly. That has not been the Giants in over a decade. I don't expect it will be the Giants in 2022. It would be great if I'm wrong.
+1. One thing that doesn’t get discussed here is that Jones seems like a poor fit for the quick release offense Daboll is rumored to be building. I mean. we’ll see what actually emerges this season but it sure looks like a square peg round hole situation.
...can be accomplished in a number of ways.
You can start in 11 pers. and shift to empty. The Giants, with Toney and WoRob can start in 21 pers and shift to Empty.
It puts great pressure on the front 7 to be able to cover all of the front end zones which removes a pass rusher and puts a LB on a guy like WoRob or Toney.
I expect to see the Giants have success with this set.
You must be new here,
My favorite combo would be Barkley, Breida, Toney, Robinson and Golladay. Four guys you could line up anywhere and motion around, that can take any play to the house, and Golladay as the possession receiver who should thrive in single coverage.
Next fav would be substituting Bellinger for Breida on early downs to show more of a run look and play action to still send everyone out on routes.
Shepard, Slayton and the rest provide good depth at the “receiver” positions.
Toney
Slayton
Shepard
Robinson
You make a real good point. The question came to mind after reviewing BBI's roster page of wide receivers. The list looked very thin to me on overall quality. Very thin:
19 Kenny Golladay
86 Darius Slayton
89 Kadarius Toney
3 Sterling Shepard
17 Wan’Dale Robinson
18 C.J. Board WR
15 Collin Johnson
84 David Sills WR
81 Alex Bachman WR
13 Travis Toivonen
87 Austin Proehl
82 Robert Foster
80 Richie James WR
Joe Schoen's 2023 Year-2 Re-Build should probably include WR, not to mention D-Line, ILB and CB.
You could be right about that. I have a soft spot for Daniel Jones, but I'll be the first to admit that I don't think he has an intuitive feel of coverages once the play gets underway.
Defenses can disguise so much nowadays I would not expect a young QB to have an 'intuitive' feel of coverage or diagnose everything pre-snap. Certainly trying to recreate Eli is a big blunder in general.
Quote:
I mean if your 5th wideout is as good as your first, either your first isn't very good or your team is built oddly. You find a role that the 5th receiver can do. Maybe his only job is to take the top off or put a defender in conflict by occupying a zone and you find a player that can play that role.
You make a real good point. The question came to mind after reviewing BBI's roster page of wide receivers. The list looked very thin to me on overall quality. Very thin:
19 Kenny Golladay
86 Darius Slayton
89 Kadarius Toney
3 Sterling Shepard
17 Wan’Dale Robinson
18 C.J. Board WR
15 Collin Johnson
84 David Sills WR
81 Alex Bachman WR
13 Travis Toivonen
87 Austin Proehl
82 Robert Foster
80 Richie James WR
Joe Schoen's 2023 Year-2 Re-Build should probably include WR, not to mention D-Line, ILB and CB.
It's not a super strong group, but you still have a recent first/second rounder, a former Pro Bowl WR who would still be a #1 on a lot of teams, and if Shep and Slayton areyour 4th and 5th that really isn't a bad group. It's not top 10 in the league, but it's probably not bottom 10 either.
The year we won the Superbowl, 4, 5 and 6 were Derek Hagan, Ramses Barden and Hixon who tore his ACL.
Toney
Robinson
Slayton
Foster
Shep
Some combo of those 6, if they are healthy, works.
Toney
Shepard
Slayton
Robinson
Colin Johnson
Richie James
CJ Board
This is far from the Giants weakest position when healthy.
Quote:
In comment 15718935 Larry from WV said:
Quote:
I mean if your 5th wideout is as good as your first, either your first isn't very good or your team is built oddly. You find a role that the 5th receiver can do. Maybe his only job is to take the top off or put a defender in conflict by occupying a zone and you find a player that can play that role.
You make a real good point. The question came to mind after reviewing BBI's roster page of wide receivers. The list looked very thin to me on overall quality. Very thin:
19 Kenny Golladay
86 Darius Slayton
89 Kadarius Toney
3 Sterling Shepard
17 Wan’Dale Robinson
18 C.J. Board WR
15 Collin Johnson
84 David Sills WR
81 Alex Bachman WR
13 Travis Toivonen
87 Austin Proehl
82 Robert Foster
80 Richie James WR
Joe Schoen's 2023 Year-2 Re-Build should probably include WR, not to mention D-Line, ILB and CB.
It's not a super strong group, but you still have a recent first/second rounder, a former Pro Bowl WR who would still be a #1 on a lot of teams, and if Shep and Slayton areyour 4th and 5th that really isn't a bad group. It's not top 10 in the league, but it's probably not bottom 10 either.
The year we won the Superbowl, 4, 5 and 6 were Derek Hagan, Ramses Barden and Hixon who tore his ACL.
Basically this.
Maybe this is semantics, but I would actually argue the WR is not a 'thin' group at all. It's weak at the top - the Giants don't have that 'go to' stud who teams have to be afraid of. But you could tell me that any of Golladay, Toney, Robinson, or Shephard led the team in catches next year and I'd believe it's possible.
No, I think injuries have buried any chance for that year after year. Not that prior regimes were looking to go that route. I think 5 WR is a stretch, more common to go 4wr and motion back to empty set. True 5 WR sets seem pretty rare.
is not necessarily the fifth read on any individual play.
is not necessarily the fifth read on any individual play.
Yeah, the Giants often enjoy the luxury of a fifth read with their stellar QB and OL play...
This 100%. I expect Jones to just throw it underneath to whoever is closest and it either resulting in an immediate tackle short of the sticks or an incomplete pass because the closest guy was not really open.
An in a 5 WR set, your 5th WR is not necessarily the QB's 5th read.
😂
An in a 5 WR set, your 5th WR is not necessarily the QB's 5th read.
1986 Giants played in a complete different times. They had 2 great running back that could catch passes and a full back that could do the same and great Tight ends that could as well. You didn’t use shotgun unless you wrrr passing and defenses didn’t get called for every little thing. Did hos ever catch a pass ? Or was he out there as a decoy/ trick play?
+1. One thing that doesn’t get discussed here is that Jones seems like a poor fit for the quick release offense Daboll is rumored to be building. I mean. we’ll see what actually emerges this season but it sure looks like a square peg round hole situation.
You can start in 11 pers. and shift to empty. The Giants, with Toney and WoRob can start in 21 pers and shift to Empty.
It puts great pressure on the front 7 to be able to cover all of the front end zones which removes a pass rusher and puts a LB on a guy like WoRob or Toney.
I expect to see the Giants have success with this set.