Fans know I've been hard on him for a variety of reasons, but it would have been very easy for him to stay away given that he is recovering from knee surgery.
But since skipping the first two weeks of the program, it appears he has been a regular since then. This is important for him to learn the playbook/system, build relationships with the new players, and rehab his injury under direct supervision of team trainers.
Whether the scare tactic was intentional or unintentional, it worked and he has responded.
I consider this one of the more positive developments of the offseason.
Q. What's been your impression of Kadarius Toney so far and what he can bring to your offense?
MIKE KAFKA: Yeah, he's been really attentive in meetings. He's doing all the right things on and off the field. I love his personality. He's one of those guys that brings a smile to the room. He has a bright personality. He's been great to work with.
The resemblance is uncanny, but let's face it, Jar Jar Trek blows.
When all your bosses show up. As well as most, if not all, of your peers show up, including many who have been at the company longer than you. All with the singular goal to be better employees...its time to go to work.
They are the same thing...
If the change was of his own volition, then perhaps a case can be made. However, if it had to be coerced...if he had to be pressured into it...if it was the result of a "scare tactic" on the team's part, then no, it can't.
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A change from a negative behavior to a positive behavior should be praised to an extent in my view. Of course this could be temporary, but perhaps praise of making a change can help solidify new, positive behavior.
If the change was of his own volition, then perhaps a case can be made. However, if it had to be coerced...if he had to be pressured into it...if it was the result of a "scare tactic" on the team's part, then no, it can't.
Are you certain there was a "scare" tactic? The rumors of shopping around were denied.
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A change from a negative behavior to a positive behavior should be praised to an extent in my view. Of course this could be temporary, but perhaps praise of making a change can help solidify new, positive behavior.
If the change was of his own volition, then perhaps a case can be made. However, if it had to be coerced...if he had to be pressured into it...if it was the result of a "scare tactic" on the team's part, then no, it can't.
I disagree, Toney still had a choice to not change his behavior. To each their own. 😊
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A change from a negative behavior to a positive behavior should be praised to an extent in my view. Of course this could be temporary, but perhaps praise of making a change can help solidify new, positive behavior.
If the change was of his own volition, then perhaps a case can be made. However, if it had to be coerced...if he had to be pressured into it...if it was the result of a "scare tactic" on the team's part, then no, it can't.
Toney showed up to give back the $100 bill that was taped to the last page of his playbook...
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In comment 15720768 ChrisRick said:
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A change from a negative behavior to a positive behavior should be praised to an extent in my view. Of course this could be temporary, but perhaps praise of making a change can help solidify new, positive behavior.
If the change was of his own volition, then perhaps a case can be made. However, if it had to be coerced...if he had to be pressured into it...if it was the result of a "scare tactic" on the team's part, then no, it can't.
Toney showed up to give back the $100 bill that was taped to the last page of his playbook...
Thought he showed up to collect that $100 bill?
If the change was of his own volition, then perhaps a case can be made. However, if it had to be coerced...if he had to be pressured into it...if it was the result of a "scare tactic" on the team's part, then no, it can't.
Are you certain there was a "scare" tactic? The rumors of shopping around were denied.
1. No, I'm not certain, but since it was in the OP it had to be addressed.
2. Of course it would be denied. It would have been stupid for Schoen to confirm it, and I don't think he's stupid.
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In comment 15720584 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
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Not showing up for a voluntary camp and "not showing up for work" aren't the same thing.
I wonder how these 'I've never missed a day of work' posters would react if their boss said, 'hey, we'd like you to show up for work the next four weekends. It's not required, you won't get paid any more, and we know it's in the middle of your time off, but we'd still like to see you in here.'
How many people here get from January until the end of July as their "time off?"
How many get one or no days off each week from July to January?
Add in that he doesn't live in the area, so he would actually have to pay to go to 'work', where he doesn't get paid. How would you feel if on those voluntary weekends you had to pay for a hotel and meals and didn't get paid.
The best comparison as far as time off is teachers. Should we expect them to voluntarily come to work for three weeks in the middle of the summer, without pay while having to pay for lodging and meals.
None of us know the details on why he wasn't there. Yet many jump to the conclusion he has a bad attitude.
And his bosses are there because it IS a mandatory part of their jobs.
If you know the rules, and youre relying on every player showing up to voluntary workouts for getting the system installed, then you’re already making bad decisions.
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Are in competition for a spot and playing time and have to learn a new offense. Especially important for a new player or when new coaching and offense is being installed that's why first year coaches are given extra days with the team. If I m taking a new job and I m told there are OTA type days especially making the money they make then I m gonna be there. They are voluntary (wink wink nod nod). Can they cut them for not being there or bench them? (Wink wink nod nod - NO not verbally) but I guarantee it means something to the staff. Their livelihood depends on you knowing the system and being the best you can be.
If you know the rules, and youre relying on every player showing up to voluntary workouts for getting the system installed, then you’re already making bad decisions.
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In comment 15720852 Blue21 said:
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Are in competition for a spot and playing time and have to learn a new offense. Especially important for a new player or when new coaching and offense is being installed that's why first year coaches are given extra days with the team. If I m taking a new job and I m told there are OTA type days especially making the money they make then I m gonna be there. They are voluntary (wink wink nod nod). Can they cut them for not being there or bench them? (Wink wink nod nod - NO not verbally) but I guarantee it means something to the staff. Their livelihood depends on you knowing the system and being the best you can be.
If you know the rules, and youre relying on every player showing up to voluntary workouts for getting the system installed, then you’re already making bad decisions.
We'll suppose none of them showed up?
Exactly.
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In comment 15720712 k2tampa said:
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In comment 15720584 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
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Not showing up for a voluntary camp and "not showing up for work" aren't the same thing.
I wonder how these 'I've never missed a day of work' posters would react if their boss said, 'hey, we'd like you to show up for work the next four weekends. It's not required, you won't get paid any more, and we know it's in the middle of your time off, but we'd still like to see you in here.'
How many people here get from January until the end of July as their "time off?"
How many get one or no days off each week from July to January?
Add in that he doesn't live in the area, so he would actually have to pay to go to 'work', where he doesn't get paid. How would you feel if on those voluntary weekends you had to pay for a hotel and meals and didn't get paid.
The best comparison as far as time off is teachers. Should we expect them to voluntarily come to work for three weeks in the middle of the summer, without pay while having to pay for lodging and meals.
How many teachers do you know that make five million dollars a year?
Toney is in favor with the coach and apparently doing his job and posters want to criticize him for that.
For all of you out there who never missed a day of work, there are probably many other people that can do your job. None of you can do what Toney does and have the revenue generating potential he does. Once you are able to do that, you can probably get some leeway as far as working off site. Im in Sales and Business Development and as long as I ptoduce, I can make my own hours. Once I stop producing and hitting my numbers that is a different story. Coach is happy with Toney. I wouldnt give two shits what any of you thought about my work habits so long as my boss was happy.
Some of you need to lighten up.
Actually, if you read the thread, there are several people criticizing that he is getting lauded for being at voluntary mini camps. How is it any different? And why do you end every post with an ellipsis as if you had something to add to you point out of curiosity?
See, I can end things with just a period too. Multi-talented.
See, I can end things with just a period too. Multi-talented.
Lol, ok....was just something I noticed.
I absolutely am on the side of the player who exercises their right to voluntary appearances. Remember years ago before the CBA protection when Shockey would work out at U of Miami and come back in better shape than he did in previous cps? I view this as the same thing...I get the impression Daboll probably had a phone call with Toney just to let him know how much he would love to meet and work with him and while he didnt have tosay yes, something about him made him turn the page from appearing disinterested into being their and possibly buying in. I think that certainly think that deserves an Atta Boy.
To put it in perspective, my boss would like me in the office occasionally but the way I am when I take calls and meetings (I stand up, I ptoject, lots of gesturing, elastic bands/stress toys) I would be quite a distracting figure to others who arent doing what I do. So as long as I hit my KPI and am engaging with the company, they are fine with me working from home. Sure, I dont need encouragement for that, but when they change my work flow that adds another step, it feels good when they say that they appreciate me adopting the change without any push back, and it DOES feel good that my falling in line is noticed even if its part of my job.
Yea, I guess you're just one of those guys. I dont even know why you and others bother posting on a fan site.
Enjoy being a miserable poster.
Yea, I guess you're just one of those guys. I dont even know why you and others bother posting on a fan site.
Enjoy being a miserable poster.
Am I glad Toney's here? Yes, I've made that clear. Do I think he deserves to be singled out for praise? No, since he isn't doing anything more than the rest of his teammates are doing.
The average career for an NFL WR is 2.81 years. For all positions combined it's 3.5 years. The average retirement age is 27. K-Tone is 23.
He came into the league without a defined position and was handed $13.7M. Guaranteed. And he has a side gig that he has appeared more interested in to many.
Not too much to ask him to earn his buckaroos that finance his other life, is it? You can see why some people might be a little tight in the shorts, right?
The kid has a bunch of talent. Hate to see it go to waste.
But that's exactly what the OP says. "Kudos to Kadarious Toney," not "Kudos to everyone who showed up."
Fine, but you could also say that about everyone else, too.
Sorry if what I perceived was off. Also, if you honestly thought I was comparing my job to that of a 2nd year NFL WR, I don't think I can help you.
The thread OP was giving credit to Toney and I saw it as posters were trying to discredit that compliment despite the kid's commitment to the team being criticized the entire offseason.
My bad if I was off, carry on.
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For 20, 21 and 22 year olds to have all their shit together, say everything perfectly and never make a mistake is astounding.
I am more impressed with how so many of these players do handle the spot light and present themselves.
Some of you are that age, some of you have children this age, and most of you were that age at one point and I bet did some really stupid shit that would have not played well if you had media tracking every move.
It doesn’t mean some of these players fuck up and are a mess and never pull it together, but maybe we give them a chance with the right mentorship that they excel on the field and as people.
Give me a f**king break!
Who said that Toney had to have all his shit together and never make a mistake? All he had to do was show up for work and he couldn't even do that.
I never had an issue showing up for work at ANY job since my first job at 17.
Let's not pretend we're holding these players up to some ridiculous standard that most of us couldn't adhere to at 20/21.
If it's so hard for a young man to show up for work, how come none of the other players had that problem?
You had to work pretty hard to mess up such a good point. But you succeeded. I'm not on KT's side, but I have to call out BS. These camps are VOLUNTARY.
So when you go off on your annoying, self righteous BS about your work attendance since you were 17, let me hear about all the company Christmas Parties, and how you NEVER skipped so much as a single voluntary company event/gathering in your entire adult career.....
Then he showed up, while he was rehabbing.
When was he being selfish/me first/bad teammate/immature/showing poor work ethic...etc?
All the while, the coaches said it was fine and that they were in contact with him.
Then when he showed up, the coaches stated that he was engaged and participating.
Seems much adoo.
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I'm surprised by some of the reactions on this thread.
He's doing the right thing now and it's still not good enough.
Tough crowd.
Doing the right thing is fine, but are we really supposed to heap praise on a guy who's only doing it as the result of a "scare tactic" (your words, not mine) used by his team to get him here? If anyone deserves kudos, it's Schoen, for getting Toney to show up. Toney isn't doing anything more than the rest of his teammates, none of whom had to be "scared" into showing up. For that he deserves kudos? Sorry, but I don't think so.
I don't want to knock Toney. I think he's immensely talented and if he stays healthy I figure he'll be a big part of the Giants offense. I don't care if he has outside interests. Lots of players do. I wouldn't knock him for being a rapper any more than I'd knock Amani Toomer for practicing Kung Fu, or Tiki Barber for working on TV and radio while still an active player.
I'll root like hell for Toney. I'll root like hell for everyone wearing the Giant colors. But I'll save my kudos for the guys who do a lot more than "the right thing," for the guys who exceed expectations and make the Giants a much better team. If, by season's end, one of those guys happens to be Kadarious Toney, then he'll have earned them, and he'll get them from me.
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I'm surprised by some of the reactions on this thread.
He's doing the right thing now and it's still not good enough.
Tough crowd.
Doing the right thing is fine, but are we really supposed to heap praise on a guy who's only doing it as the result of a "scare tactic" (your words, not mine) used by his team to get him here? If anyone deserves kudos, it's Schoen, for getting Toney to show up. Toney isn't doing anything more than the rest of his teammates, none of whom had to be "scared" into showing up. For that he deserves kudos? Sorry, but I don't think so.
I don't want to knock Toney. I think he's immensely talented and if he stays healthy I figure he'll be a big part of the Giants offense. I don't care if he has outside interests. Lots of players do. I wouldn't knock him for being a rapper any more than I'd knock Amani Toomer for practicing Kung Fu, or Tiki Barber for working on TV and radio while still an active player.
I'll root like hell for Toney. I'll root like hell for everyone wearing the Giant colors. But I'll save my kudos for the guys who do a lot more than "the right thing," for the guys who exceed expectations and make the Giants a much better team. If, by season's end, one of those guys happens to be Kadarious Toney, then he'll have earned them, and he'll get them from me.
That might be a low bar, but it’s the only one we have. There’s no serious contact, and no real competition. So far, Toney and nearly every other Giant is doing great. The team is undefeated and looking good in shorts. I’ll enjoy it while I can, with no illusions about the prospects for September and beyond.
Unfortunately, success WITH a deal could also distract him or cause us to lose him to a short football career.
In comment 15720303 SGMen said:
However, if his head is one right he does have serious skills which can be utilized to cause defenses major matchup problems. And if Robinson is NFL ready the both of them can juke it down the field. They should be fun to watch.
If our early picks from the last few years do pan out we will be in great shape: Barkley, Jones, Lawrence, Toney, Thomas, Neal, Thibs, McKinney and robinson are key.
In comment 15720835 k2tampa said:
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In comment 15720712 k2tampa said:
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In comment 15720584 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
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Not showing up for a voluntary camp and "not showing up for work" aren't the same thing.
I wonder how these 'I've never missed a day of work' posters would react if their boss said, 'hey, we'd like you to show up for work the next four weekends. It's not required, you won't get paid any more, and we know it's in the middle of your time off, but we'd still like to see you in here.'
How many people here get from January until the end of July as their "time off?"
How many get one or no days off each week from July to January?
Add in that he doesn't live in the area, so he would actually have to pay to go to 'work', where he doesn't get paid. How would you feel if on those voluntary weekends you had to pay for a hotel and meals and didn't get paid.
The best comparison as far as time off is teachers. Should we expect them to voluntarily come to work for three weeks in the middle of the summer, without pay while having to pay for lodging and meals.
None of us know the details on why he wasn't there. Yet many jump to the conclusion he has a bad attitude.
And his bosses are there because it IS a mandatory part of their jobs.
"Giants wide receiver Kadarius Toney had a minor arthroscopic knee procedure, sources say, which is why he’s been in a red jersey on the side at spring OTA practices. But he is expected to be fine and ready for training camp."
He is clearly in an intermediate stage of rehabbing, after a minor procedure.
Before that, he would have just been sitting on the sidelines in voluntary practices. How is that helpful or essential?
All I know about him for now is that he has the talent to be a Pro Bowl quality receiver, but it comes with a problematic history of injuries. He has an immature, "flaky" personality, but it's too early to know if that will be a problem or not. There's a long history of immature, flaky, and/or selfish, narcissistic, egotistical wide receivers who've had hugely successful, Hall of Fame-type careers (Terrell Owens, Antonio Brown, etc.). That could be Toney or he could be one of a long list of very talented receivers who never realized anything close to their potential because they lacked focus and didn't put in the work. It's too early and we're too uninformed to know where Toney will land on the spectrum of possibilities.
As of now, I'm more worried about the injuries than I am about his work ethic and dedication. I'm not at all worried about his talent. He's the real deal.
Daboll press conference from april 4
Q: To jump off that, for guys that don't show up since you're installing a new program, will they fall behind the eight ball by not being there? Do you view it as a negative if they're not here today?
A: No, I view it as it's voluntary. The guys that are here, we're going to work with, with the time allowed that we can work with them. When the other players are able to come in, you know, there's a variety of reasons here – we're on April 4th – but we'll work with them and catch them up as best we can.
Daboll has not voluntarily disclosed any injuries to players or offseason medical procedures done. His quote was there is a variety of reasons here (why they aren't there) and he doesn't have to disclose those reasons.
Not too much to ask him to earn his buckaroos that finance his other life, is it? You can see why some people might be a little tight in the shorts, right?
But unless you're a coach, you don't actually know what's going on, as has been well demonstrated this offseason while everyone was quick to think he was goofing off.