Dan Duggan ✔ @DDuggan21
Been a while since the last Giants' salary cap update, but the NFLPA database is finally caught up: The Giants currently have $6.6M in cap space.
That's the same amount as before the James Bradberry release, as those savings mostly went toward signing the draft class.
Second-round pick Wan'Dale Robinson, fourth-round pick Daniel Bellinger and fourth-round pick Dane Belton are the only picks who haven't signed. Those signings will cost ~$815K on the cap.
All of the post-draft veteran signings have either been VSBs (DE Jalyn Holmes, CB Maurice Canady) or straight minimum deals (CB Khalil Dorsey, CB Michael Jacquet, S Henry Black). No/negligible cap impact.
You’re not getting this. $6.6m soon to be $5.8m is barely enough to pay the 53 man cap amount plus the PS salaries and have enough for in-season injury replacements.
You want another edge rusher in addition to Thibodeaux, Ojulari, Smith, Roche? On a rebuilding team too?
then a vet corner.
this is 1-2 million dollar signins they wont add much to the cap at all. ridiculous. a 2nd legit vet corner can be a huge booon to this team.
3rd biggest would be a pass rusher - yeah its too young of a room.
i
+1
I'm still pretty confident they will ship out Slayton and add a year on for Gates once it's confirmed he's not ready, and either of those moves would give them another couple million of breathing room any way.
then a vet corner.
this is 1-2 million dollar signins they wont add much to the cap at all. ridiculous. a 2nd legit vet corner can be a huge booon to this team.
3rd biggest would be a pass rusher - yeah its too young of a room.
i
They have a vet running back. Breida.
they are likely VSB or bust from here out and i would guess the players unsigned are unsigned because they aren't yet willing to settle for that.
the only spending i think they'd do is chuck clark who just changed agents but may be trying to work things out with BAL before forcing the issue elsewhere. but that would probably be more of a salary swap with slayton.
It's a 51-man number. When the Giants add the 52/53rd roster spots, subtract another 1.8M.
Then subtract a potential 1.8M if Ryan wins his grievance.
Then subtract 815K incremental for the remaining offsets for rookies.
There's an outcome where the Giants have 4.4M less.
It's a 51-man number. When the Giants add the 52/53rd roster spots, subtract another 1.8M.
Then subtract a potential 1.8M if Ryan wins his grievance.
Then subtract 815K incremental for the remaining offsets for rookies.
There's an outcome where the Giants have 4.4M less.
I believe Ryan is already pulled
Or maybe they’re waiting to further evaluate what they have in their rookies and young players to see if they want to feed them playing time in this rebuilding year.
I like Chuck Clark if the price is right, and as a short term mentor to a very young DB room, but he would certainly take snaps away from players that might be here longer term, McKinney, Love, Belton and maybe even Corker?
Overall though, I’m good not spending more this year to marginally increase our chances of winning another game or two.
I don't think 33-year old Jimmy Smith wants to play on a vet minimum deal for a team that isn't winning the Super Bowl
Darius Slayton is the obvious choice. I believe he saves $2.5Million if cut
The Giants had to put aside 1.2M of the possible 3M. If they lose the grievance, they'll lose another 1.8M. I think that NFLPA number only accounts for the 1.2M.
again, knowing it's probably more likely than not that they are sellers at the deadline I don't think there's any major need to create an abundance of space beyond the moves that make sense for the future. they aren't a team likely to be taking on any big contracts in season, more likely they are shedding.
trading slayton, cutting ximines, and tacking on a year for Gates are 3 such moves.
https://overthecap.com/nfl-cap-update-for-september-1/ - ( New Window )
This. They aren’t spending anything for vet players. That would require contract renegotiations and pushing money into next year. Not happening.
If in the top 35 or so , it means 1M+ Net savings minimum. Our roster is pretty fluid, especially with a new HC and mgmt, so I’m betting on it being ‘somebodies’.
I do not like a nose tackle who looks out of shape and has a nickname of jelly. Maybe he can play. Maybe they move Dexter Lawrence inside but stopping the run is still important
If in the top 35 or so , it means 1M+ Net savings minimum. Our roster is pretty fluid, especially with a new HC and mgmt, so I’m betting on it being ‘somebodies’.
Robinson, Bellinger and Belton will push the bottom three off the top 51. The difference between their cap hit and the offset is the +800K the OP is referencing.
@AlexWilsonESM
·
7h
The Giants currently have $6.2 million in salary space and are projected to have $53.35 million in 2023.
If they wanted to add another $27 million, they could cut Leonard Williams and Adoree Jackson (but obviously lose two big players).
Much healthier situation in 2023.
I do not like a nose tackle who looks out of shape and has a nickname of jelly. Maybe he can play. Maybe they move Dexter Lawrence inside but stopping the run is still important
Gettleman always said "you gotta' stop the run..."
Schoen has clearly operated to keep the 2023 sheet as clean as possible.
The thing that makes that number drop significantly? Paying Daniel Jones 31.5M.
Quote:
Much healthier situation in 2023.
Schoen has clearly operated to keep the 2023 sheet as clean as possible.
The thing that makes that number drop significantly? Paying Daniel Jones 31.5M.
If they keep him it will probably be a multi year deal. Doubt the hit will be that high.
@AlexWilsonESM
.
If they wanted to add another $27 million, they could cut Leonard Williams and Adoree Jackson (but obviously lose two big players).
WTF! Cut Leo and Jackson. Why bother to even field a team. Cut ‘em all
It's unlikely they're shopping for any notable additions. This is the best time for evaluating and getting the young guys the attention they need. Save the money for camp injuries.. Those are inevitable.
Quote:
Alex Wilson
@AlexWilsonESM
.
If they wanted to add another $27 million, they could cut Leonard Williams and Adoree Jackson (but obviously lose two big players).
WTF! Cut Leo and Jackson. Why bother to even field a team. Cut ‘em all
That's the cost of resetting after the disaster of the last four years.
I doubt it happens, but I'd be happy with it.
Some of you really need to lower your expectations for the season. 8-8 should be our ceiling.
He qualifies for a performance escalator.
Link - ( New Window )
@AlexWilsonESM
·
7h
The Giants currently have $6.2 million in salary space and are projected to have $53.35 million in 2023.
If they wanted to add another $27 million, they could cut Leonard Williams and Adoree Jackson (but obviously lose two big players).
Much healthier situation in 2023.
Just a silly take by this guy. Can we see how Leo and Jackson play in the new defense before we talk about cutting them for cap space that isn't needed? JFC with some of this shit.
The thing that makes that number drop significantly? Paying Daniel Jones 31.5M.
If they keep him it will probably be a multi year deal. Doubt the hit will be that high.
That's the franchise tender amount. There's definitely a set of circumstances where the Giants will consider tagging Jones.
-A very competitive season.
-Jones putting up big numbers which leads to significant offensive production.
-Jones staying healthy for the entire year.
Aside from Mara’s silly rant about how the Giants have screwed up Jones, the actions have said otherwise.
Quote:
Schoen has clearly operated to keep the 2023 sheet as clean as possible.
The thing that makes that number drop significantly? Paying Daniel Jones 31.5M.
If they keep him it will probably be a multi year deal. Doubt the hit will be that high.
That's the franchise tender amount. There's definitely a set of circumstances where the Giants will consider tagging Jones.
I guess. Seems to me he either shows he’s worth a longer term investment or doesn’t. A tag would seem like another “show me” year. I don’t know. Possible I guess.
Adding any vets to 2022's ledger needs to be smart and short.
Quote:
In comment 15726423 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Alex Wilson
@AlexWilsonESM
.
If they wanted to add another $27 million, they could cut Leonard Williams and Adoree Jackson (but obviously lose two big players).
WTF! Cut Leo and Jackson. Why bother to even field a team. Cut ‘em all
That's the cost of resetting after the disaster of the last four years.
I doubt it happens, but I'd be happy with it.
I think it does happen. Williams and Jackson don't have any ties to the current front office and coaching staff.\
Williams I think more so than Jackson.
I am of the opinion that Jackson was our best corner after week 4 last year.
Amongst many things to watch this season, it will be interesting to see the effort Leo puts out there to manage that next contract. Particularly as to sacks...
then a vet corner.
this is 1-2 million dollar signins they wont add much to the cap at all. ridiculous. a 2nd legit vet corner can be a huge booon to this team.
3rd biggest would be a pass rusher - yeah its too young of a room.
i
It's ok if you don't understand the cap; just don't lecture those that do.
The effective cap space once the remainder of the draftees are signed will be $5.8M. And that's just for the top 51. Once the roster is finalized, that'll be another ~$1.8M that evaporates to go from top 51 to final 53. So that leaves $4M in implied cap space for the season.
That $4M would need to cover the practice squad AND any in-season moves that occur (including injury replacements and potential dead money due to roster churn). That alone is already not enough.
The Giants still need to create cap room for this season, not spend the little bit that they do have right now.
If he wins, the Giants go into the season with a very lean buffer.
In that case the Giants in all likelihood need to restructure a deal to operate.
again, knowing it's probably more likely than not that they are sellers at the deadline I don't think there's any major need to create an abundance of space beyond the moves that make sense for the future. they aren't a team likely to be taking on any big contracts in season, more likely they are shedding.
trading slayton, cutting ximines, and tacking on a year for Gates are 3 such moves. https://overthecap.com/nfl-cap-update-for-september-1/ - ( New Window )
Right, but they won't be at $6.6M heading into the season. They still have to sign the remaining draftees, account for the 52nd and 53rd spots on the roster, and fill a practice squad, plus they're likely to have a couple of players who are on PUP or IR to start the year.
Where would <$2M going into the season have ranked them last year? 27th at best?
clearing out slayton and Ximines save about 3.5m, which gets them to about $5m.
and i expect them to creatively add on a year with gates too because that will be in the best interest of both sides if he's not ready to compete yet.
Quote:
Schoen has clearly operated to keep the 2023 sheet as clean as possible.
The thing that makes that number drop significantly? Paying Daniel Jones 31.5M.
If they keep him it will probably be a multi year deal. Doubt the hit will be that high.
That's the franchise tender amount. There's definitely a set of circumstances where the Giants will consider tagging Jones.
I think Jones gets tagged and if he is healthy off-season perhaps a long-term deal is worked out.
I guess the tag is possible in this scenario but we'd still be working with the same problem - not being good enough. Why would we pay $31.5m for that?
I can only see him getting tagged if the offense kicks ass and we are a playoff team.
Quote:
In comment 15726436 BillT said:
Quote:
Schoen has clearly operated to keep the 2023 sheet as clean as possible.
The thing that makes that number drop significantly? Paying Daniel Jones 31.5M.
If they keep him it will probably be a multi year deal. Doubt the hit will be that high.
That's the franchise tender amount. There's definitely a set of circumstances where the Giants will consider tagging Jones.
Lets say Jones plays 17 games and executes the offense really well. We finish say 8-9 or thereabouts so we don't have a top 7 pick again. You have to tag Jones even if you draft a QB in round #1 cause he'll likely be more of a "developmental" QB, a guy with talent who has a higher ceiling perhaps?
I think Jones gets tagged and if he is healthy off-season perhaps a long-term deal is worked out.
Don't "have to" do anything of the sort.
First of all, would like to think the bar can be set a bit higher than tagging or extending a QB that still produces a losing record in the saddle.
And no reason why the NYG can't at least try to navigate their ultimate 2023 draft spot by making deals/trades if there are some QB targets worth moving up for. And even if they just stayed in the middle of the Rd 1 somewhere, it's not like they still can't take the 3rd or 4th best QB prospect on the board if the evaluation still makes sense.
This mindset that we are beholden to stick with Jones at QB if he happens to play 17 games of decent ball in 2022 is eye-rolling to say the least...
If Daniel Jones has a relatively healthy, relatively good year -- I believe the Giants would consider a prove it approach.
If Jones plays 15 games, has 25 TDs and 15 TOs and the Giants win 7 or 8 games -- I certainly wouldn't expect them to offer a 30M+ AAV long-term deal.
The other issue is the franchise tender has to be applied before the draft, and before pro days are over. So you have to make a decision on him before you have the full details on the draft prospects.
doesn't change the fact that they separately need to evaluate whether or not there's an upgrade available elsewhere - as they did with Tyrod/Allen in BUF.
if there's a better option elsewhere they will do it. if there's not they won't. the financial aspect is secondary.
But it's not immaterial, and the Giants (as Schoen has both said and done) need to operate in a financially sound manner to build a path toward a championship team.
The most recent experience the Giants had applying the franchise tag was 100% rooted in setting the floor as a prove it year, and the ceiling as a reasonable extension.
No reason to believe this won't be a possibility with Jones.
There aren't a ton of candidates for that sort of maneuvering. For one thing, you can't extend draftees until after their third season, so that removes all players drafted in 2020, 2021, and 2022 (there are 27 players who fall into this category; not all of them will make the final roster anyway).
Then you have the remaining 2019 draftees who are in the final year of their contracts and would need to be extended in order to be kept - you can eliminate Jones and Lawrence there as well, because of the team's respective 5th year option decisions. That leaves Ximines, Love, and Slayton. X is not likely to be extended (and might not even make the roster). Love and Slayton would not represent much savings even if they were extended.
The only players drafted earlier than 2019 are Barkley and Shepard. Barkley would require an extension to modify his cap number, and that's not likely to happen. Shepard already had his contract restructured this year. We can include Nick Gates here as well, and while he could potentially be extended to create some 2022 cap room, I suspect Schoen would prefer to avoid that unless he was confident that Gates would return in 2023.
UDFA don't make enough money to represent latent cap space, so we can eliminate them.
That brings us to players who were acquired via UFA. Right off the top, you can remove all the players who were signed this offseason, as they already have favorable Y1 cap situations or were only signed for one year to begin with. So we can turn to UFA that were signed by the previous regime:
Martinez, Gano, and Jackson were already restructured. So we're down to two players who could be restructured to make room this year: Williams and Golladay. The latter is unlikely to have his 2022 cap number modified unless absolutely necessary because doing so would just make his contract more painful to ditch in the future.
That leaves one player who could realistically be restructured to add cap space this year: Leonard Williams.
There isn't much else left that can be moved around to make space. Any other cap room the front office wants to create will most likely have to come via trade or release.
any amount they advance him as bonus $ this year comes with a 50% discount on that cap charge with the other 50% divided over his final year next year.
so to create 1m of room this year they write him a 2m check, which kicks $1m to next year's cap hit.
2m of cap room = 4m check, 2m to next year's cap hit.
and on and on.
if they move on from Slayton and Ximines I don't think they will need to use it unless they have another crazy IR season.
"Kind of rebuilding" every year for years now is getting old...