Had this debate with a friend at work today. I think the ineptitude of the coaching staff and GM at that time would have ruined his career. He felt that Allen would have become a star on the Giants as well.
This is how simple minded you clowns are. The comparison does not matter. Let’s call him the love child of Ben Roethlisberger and Steve Young. Did people forget how shitty this roster has been and how terrible the team has been run?
We're simple minded because you made an embarrassingly bad comparison and everyone laughed at you?
That Jeff George comparison is a unique commitment to being wrong. Bravo.
Allen is markedly more durable, and has way more arm and leg talent than Jones. That alone is good enough reason to believe he'd have more success in the same situation.
Furthermore, drafting Allen at 2 or trading back and getting him a few picks later would have exhibited a savvy in scouting and team building the previous bag of arrogance didn't possess.
If the Giants were operated by a manager who picked Allen, it's easy to assume that guy would have done more smart things as well.
This is how simple minded you clowns are. The comparison does not matter. Let’s call him the love child of Ben Roethlisberger and Steve Young. Did people forget how shitty this roster has been and how terrible the team has been run?
And some of us believe Jones is part of all that, not an exception from it
Jones is actually this good QB or at the very least we don’t know because of the roster
So a 70 million dollar Golladay who doesn’t catch one TD all season. All season! You have a relatively high draft pick WR that doesn’t catch one TD all season!
This has nothing to do with the qb who he easily the worst starter in the league . Nothing whatsoever
Jones is actually this good QB or at the very least we don’t know because of the roster
So a 70 million dollar Golladay who doesn’t catch one TD all season. All season! You have a relatively high draft pick WR that doesn’t catch one TD all season!
This has nothing to do with the qb who he easily the worst starter in the league . Nothing whatsoever
Even the biggest DJ optimist would have to admit that the absolute best case scenario for him this year is peak Kirk Cousins. And if that happens they franchise him and are stuck in QB purgatory. I like the guy but some people have convinced themselves that Daboll is going to turn him into Josh Allen
That Jeff George comparison is a unique commitment to being wrong. Bravo.
Allen is markedly more durable, and has way more arm and leg talent than Jones. That alone is good enough reason to believe he'd have more success in the same situation.
Furthermore, drafting Allen at 2 or trading back and getting him a few picks later would have exhibited a savvy in scouting and team building the previous bag of arrogance didn't possess.
If the Giants were operated by a manager who picked Allen, it's easy to assume that guy would have done more smart things as well.
This is how simple minded you clowns are. The comparison does not matter. Let’s call him the love child of Ben Roethlisberger and Steve Young. Did people forget how shitty this roster has been and how terrible the team has been run?
Yeah we forgot. Us simpletons have been telling posters like you that very point for years, but you never really got it.
The Jeff George comparison is just another example...
Jones is actually this good QB or at the very least we don’t know because of the roster
So a 70 million dollar Golladay who doesn’t catch one TD all season. All season! You have a relatively high draft pick WR that doesn’t catch one TD all season!
This has nothing to do with the qb who he easily the worst starter in the league . Nothing whatsoever
(1) Daniel Jones is not the worst starter in the league. Bottom 10 yes, but not the worst.
(2) KG is not free from blame as there were plenty of times where he gave half-assed attempts at playing the ball. Toney had a 3rd Round grade by Sy and could not stay healthy. Many of the BBI faithful wanted Elijah Moore if we went for a WR.
1. We don't build around Eli.
2. We don't sign Solder but stick with Flowers for a year more.
3. We trade down somehow and if not we draft QB Josh Allen
Eli starts and struggles, of course, and perhaps we do worse by a game and have an earlier pick in 2019...
Point is we no know Josh Allen would have been best and building around Eli (try to win while rebuilding) was a bad ownership idea. Good intentions but terrible results.
1. We don't build around Eli.
2. We don't sign Solder but stick with Flowers for a year more.
3. We trade down somehow and if not we draft QB Josh Allen
Eli starts and struggles, of course, and perhaps we do worse by a game and have an earlier pick in 2019...
Point is we no know Josh Allen would have been best and building around Eli (try to win while rebuilding) was a bad ownership idea. Good intentions but terrible results.
we may not have known about Allen and what he would become in 2018, but many called out building around Eli as mistake in real time
1. We don't build around Eli.
2. We don't sign Solder but stick with Flowers for a year more.
3. We trade down somehow and if not we draft QB Josh Allen
Eli starts and struggles, of course, and perhaps we do worse by a game and have an earlier pick in 2019...
Point is we no know Josh Allen would have been best and building around Eli (try to win while rebuilding) was a bad ownership idea. Good intentions but terrible results.
we may not have known about Allen and what he would become in 2018, but many called out building around Eli as mistake in real time
Eli had the quick release and mind for the game but he could no longer sidestep the rush like he did 2012 and earlier.... truly a bad move based on MONEY and building on his legacy than football smarts.
DJ might not have been given the best tools to work with, but he's shown next to nothing that he's a franchise QB.
I don’t care about Daniel Jones. This thread should have nothing to do with Daniel Jones. This is about Josh Allen and how some think you can just cut and paste his Buffalo stats to the Giants and call it a day.
Josh Allen did not look good his first two years in the league, and that’s coming into a much better situation than the 2018 Giants.
Still developing but you could see clear consistent improvement in many parts of his game. He threw for 20 TDs, a 2 to 1 ratio on TDs to Ints, ran for a ton of yards and another 9 scores as well. He also had many 4th qtr comebacks and game winning drives leading his team to 10 wins and a playoff berth as noted in this thread earlier.
Josh Allen was progressively improving, and by year three was a bona fide MVP candidate.
His durability, arm, and legs would make all but maybe 3 or 4 teams immediately better at the position. Especially the Giants.
That Jeff George comment is filling up someone's Mt. Rushmore. I recall awesome gems like "don't sleep on the 2019 Giants," and Gettleman "systematically building a championship team."
... probably not likely because I think this team is still a ways off and we don't know what we have in the staff and scheme or OL yet.... but I will absolutely laugh my ass off at you phucqers if this team turns it around and Jones starts kicking ass. That will be hilarious... lol
... probably not likely because I think this team is still a ways off and we don't know what we have in the staff and scheme or OL yet.... but I will absolutely laugh my ass off at you phucqers if this team turns it around and Jones starts kicking ass. That will be hilarious... lol
So can we laugh at you now because Jones has been bad for three years?
I’ve shared this observation many times on BBI. I couldn’t stand Tom Coughlin. I didn’t like when he was hired. I thought he was phony and would never succeed. And I did everything in my power to be there and literally cried in the stands at his final game in January of 2016.
No one dislikes Daniel Jones. He’s just been really bad. No one will be upset if he has an improbable turn around.
For many of us — it doesn’t matter if it’s Daniel Jones or if it’s Donald Duck. There’s no personal attachment or favorite players. We just want the Giants to do well. And so far Daniel Jones hasn’t come close.
... probably not likely because I think this team is still a ways off and we don't know what we have in the staff and scheme or OL yet.... but I will absolutely laugh my ass off at you phucqers if this team turns it around and Jones starts kicking ass. That will be hilarious... lol
So can we laugh at you now because Jones has been bad for three years?
I’ve shared this observation many times on BBI. I couldn’t stand Tom Coughlin. I didn’t like when he was hired. I thought he was phony and would never succeed. And I did everything in my power to be there and literally cried in the stands at his final game in January of 2016.
No one dislikes Daniel Jones. He’s just been really bad. No one will be upset if he has an improbable turn around.
For many of us — it doesn’t matter if it’s Daniel Jones or if it’s Donald Duck. There’s no personal attachment or favorite players. We just want the Giants to do well. And so far Daniel Jones hasn’t come close.
There's nothing funny about watching the Giants these past few years. They've been an unwatchable disaster, and it's tough to understand why fans who supposedly care about wins and losses would lobby for any of the players that were a part of it.
There's nothing funny about watching the Giants these past few years. They've been an unwatchable disaster, and it's tough to understand why fans who supposedly care about wins and losses would lobby for any of the players that were a part of it.
I agree with it not being funny. To be fair, I don't lobby for anyone. He is the Giants QB. The best case scenario is for him to thrive and kick ass. If he doesn't we move on and I root for the next guy. But I want him to succeed and kick ass. Call me Crazy. What can I say.
I want Niko Lalos to become Lawrence Taylor. Why aren't you going around talking about how much you want that?
What we want as fans is distinct from what will happen in reality.
If we see a bus crash off a cliff into the ocean we want everyone inside to be ok. The reality is likely to be very different from that. We want Daniel Jones to lead this team to a title. The reality is he isn't any good.
What we want isn't interesting. We all want the same thing.
The Phil Simms analogies don't work in today's NFL. How do people not get this by now?
Why? I don't want to hear anecdotal evidence either.
I see posts saying less productive collegiate QBs not only never get drafted high but never end up doing anything in the NFL. This is flat out false. Simms is a real life example why this is false. Also, Alex Smith needed 5-6 years too. Are we not allowed to conjure up examples from that era too?
Even out own Eli Manning went from productive but enigmatic to legendary AFTER his FOURTH year? But now I have to listen to people say QBs can't go from bad to good in the same time frame?
All we have is history to go on. We can't use any prior examples? Why the hell not?
Strawman. You might a couple idiots on the site that say flat out "Can't" Pointing to outliers as any kind of evidence is the weakest kind of support.
Nearly, all of us want a light turn on and the kid to be great. We think that is about as likely as the next Kurt Warner is bagging groceries at my local Albertson's.
Going into each year, my take on what I want the Giants to do is based on the odds I think it will succeed.
I don’t put any more value on something improbable happening. I want the Giants to do the most high odds things, no matter what.
I think it’s very low odds Jones ever competes for a championship.
Solid.
Agreed, a fair take. My only argument with you guys really only has ever been that I think he has shown better than you do. And that comes down to how successful I think any QB would have been in this same situation as it has unfolded for the Giants since 2019. Which is to say, I don't think anyone would have been successful. It's not a great example but at least Glennon playing for the Bears *looked* like a not completely uncapable backup. On the Giants he looked like he shouldn't even be on a football field. When Jones went out the tent completely folded. I have seen enough of Jones to think he has the tools in the right (or even just decent) system on a team that at least has a competitive roster. And I agree with people like Chris and Phil Simms that see that in him as well.
And again I don't know how many times I can say, if we move on... Sayonara. I'll root for the next guy up. But I still think there's enough there to succeed and as a fan, I am rooting for that to happen. Nothing more, nothing less.
We're simple minded because you made an embarrassingly bad comparison and everyone laughed at you?
Quote:
That Jeff George comparison is a unique commitment to being wrong. Bravo.
Allen is markedly more durable, and has way more arm and leg talent than Jones. That alone is good enough reason to believe he'd have more success in the same situation.
Furthermore, drafting Allen at 2 or trading back and getting him a few picks later would have exhibited a savvy in scouting and team building the previous bag of arrogance didn't possess.
If the Giants were operated by a manager who picked Allen, it's easy to assume that guy would have done more smart things as well.
This is how simple minded you clowns are. The comparison does not matter. Let’s call him the love child of Ben Roethlisberger and Steve Young. Did people forget how shitty this roster has been and how terrible the team has been run?
And some of us believe Jones is part of all that, not an exception from it
So a 70 million dollar Golladay who doesn’t catch one TD all season. All season! You have a relatively high draft pick WR that doesn’t catch one TD all season!
This has nothing to do with the qb who he easily the worst starter in the league . Nothing whatsoever
So a 70 million dollar Golladay who doesn’t catch one TD all season. All season! You have a relatively high draft pick WR that doesn’t catch one TD all season!
This has nothing to do with the qb who he easily the worst starter in the league . Nothing whatsoever
Even the biggest DJ optimist would have to admit that the absolute best case scenario for him this year is peak Kirk Cousins. And if that happens they franchise him and are stuck in QB purgatory. I like the guy but some people have convinced themselves that Daboll is going to turn him into Josh Allen
Quote:
That Jeff George comparison is a unique commitment to being wrong. Bravo.
Allen is markedly more durable, and has way more arm and leg talent than Jones. That alone is good enough reason to believe he'd have more success in the same situation.
Furthermore, drafting Allen at 2 or trading back and getting him a few picks later would have exhibited a savvy in scouting and team building the previous bag of arrogance didn't possess.
If the Giants were operated by a manager who picked Allen, it's easy to assume that guy would have done more smart things as well.
This is how simple minded you clowns are. The comparison does not matter. Let’s call him the love child of Ben Roethlisberger and Steve Young. Did people forget how shitty this roster has been and how terrible the team has been run?
Yeah we forgot. Us simpletons have been telling posters like you that very point for years, but you never really got it.
The Jeff George comparison is just another example...
So a 70 million dollar Golladay who doesn’t catch one TD all season. All season! You have a relatively high draft pick WR that doesn’t catch one TD all season!
This has nothing to do with the qb who he easily the worst starter in the league . Nothing whatsoever
(1) Daniel Jones is not the worst starter in the league. Bottom 10 yes, but not the worst.
(2) KG is not free from blame as there were plenty of times where he gave half-assed attempts at playing the ball. Toney had a 3rd Round grade by Sy and could not stay healthy. Many of the BBI faithful wanted Elijah Moore if we went for a WR.
2. We don't sign Solder but stick with Flowers for a year more.
3. We trade down somehow and if not we draft QB Josh Allen
Eli starts and struggles, of course, and perhaps we do worse by a game and have an earlier pick in 2019...
Point is we no know Josh Allen would have been best and building around Eli (try to win while rebuilding) was a bad ownership idea. Good intentions but terrible results.
2. We don't sign Solder but stick with Flowers for a year more.
3. We trade down somehow and if not we draft QB Josh Allen
Eli starts and struggles, of course, and perhaps we do worse by a game and have an earlier pick in 2019...
Point is we no know Josh Allen would have been best and building around Eli (try to win while rebuilding) was a bad ownership idea. Good intentions but terrible results.
we may not have known about Allen and what he would become in 2018, but many called out building around Eli as mistake in real time
Quote:
1. We don't build around Eli.
2. We don't sign Solder but stick with Flowers for a year more.
3. We trade down somehow and if not we draft QB Josh Allen
Eli starts and struggles, of course, and perhaps we do worse by a game and have an earlier pick in 2019...
Point is we no know Josh Allen would have been best and building around Eli (try to win while rebuilding) was a bad ownership idea. Good intentions but terrible results.
we may not have known about Allen and what he would become in 2018, but many called out building around Eli as mistake in real time
I don’t care about Daniel Jones. This thread should have nothing to do with Daniel Jones. This is about Josh Allen and how some think you can just cut and paste his Buffalo stats to the Giants and call it a day.
Josh Allen did not look good his first two years in the league, and that’s coming into a much better situation than the 2018 Giants.
But of course he’s no Jeff George...
His durability, arm, and legs would make all but maybe 3 or 4 teams immediately better at the position. Especially the Giants.
That Jeff George comment is filling up someone's Mt. Rushmore. I recall awesome gems like "don't sleep on the 2019 Giants," and Gettleman "systematically building a championship team."
If the Giants do well, I bet the fans who were skeptical will be happy. That seems like a more healthy outcome.
So can we laugh at you now because Jones has been bad for three years?
No one dislikes Daniel Jones. He’s just been really bad. No one will be upset if he has an improbable turn around.
For many of us — it doesn’t matter if it’s Daniel Jones or if it’s Donald Duck. There’s no personal attachment or favorite players. We just want the Giants to do well. And so far Daniel Jones hasn’t come close.
Quote:
... probably not likely because I think this team is still a ways off and we don't know what we have in the staff and scheme or OL yet.... but I will absolutely laugh my ass off at you phucqers if this team turns it around and Jones starts kicking ass. That will be hilarious... lol
So can we laugh at you now because Jones has been bad for three years?
Ha, I'm sure you already do.
No one dislikes Daniel Jones. He’s just been really bad. No one will be upset if he has an improbable turn around.
For many of us — it doesn’t matter if it’s Daniel Jones or if it’s Donald Duck. There’s no personal attachment or favorite players. We just want the Giants to do well. And so far Daniel Jones hasn’t come close.
That's a fair take, Christian.
There was a guy on here that did something like that before...
I don’t put any more value on something improbable happening. I want the Giants to do the most high odds things, no matter what.
I think it’s very low odds Jones ever competes for a championship.
I agree with it not being funny. To be fair, I don't lobby for anyone. He is the Giants QB. The best case scenario is for him to thrive and kick ass. If he doesn't we move on and I root for the next guy. But I want him to succeed and kick ass. Call me Crazy. What can I say.
What we want as fans is distinct from what will happen in reality.
If we see a bus crash off a cliff into the ocean we want everyone inside to be ok. The reality is likely to be very different from that. We want Daniel Jones to lead this team to a title. The reality is he isn't any good.
What we want isn't interesting. We all want the same thing.
I don’t put any more value on something improbable happening. I want the Giants to do the most high odds things, no matter what.
I think it’s very low odds Jones ever competes for a championship.
Quote:
The Phil Simms analogies don't work in today's NFL. How do people not get this by now?
Why? I don't want to hear anecdotal evidence either.
I see posts saying less productive collegiate QBs not only never get drafted high but never end up doing anything in the NFL. This is flat out false. Simms is a real life example why this is false. Also, Alex Smith needed 5-6 years too. Are we not allowed to conjure up examples from that era too?
Even out own Eli Manning went from productive but enigmatic to legendary AFTER his FOURTH year? But now I have to listen to people say QBs can't go from bad to good in the same time frame?
All we have is history to go on. We can't use any prior examples? Why the hell not?
Nearly, all of us want a light turn on and the kid to be great. We think that is about as likely as the next Kurt Warner is bagging groceries at my local Albertson's.
Quote:
Going into each year, my take on what I want the Giants to do is based on the odds I think it will succeed.
I don’t put any more value on something improbable happening. I want the Giants to do the most high odds things, no matter what.
I think it’s very low odds Jones ever competes for a championship.
Solid.
Agreed, a fair take. My only argument with you guys really only has ever been that I think he has shown better than you do. And that comes down to how successful I think any QB would have been in this same situation as it has unfolded for the Giants since 2019. Which is to say, I don't think anyone would have been successful. It's not a great example but at least Glennon playing for the Bears *looked* like a not completely uncapable backup. On the Giants he looked like he shouldn't even be on a football field. When Jones went out the tent completely folded. I have seen enough of Jones to think he has the tools in the right (or even just decent) system on a team that at least has a competitive roster. And I agree with people like Chris and Phil Simms that see that in him as well.
And again I don't know how many times I can say, if we move on... Sayonara. I'll root for the next guy up. But I still think there's enough there to succeed and as a fan, I am rooting for that to happen. Nothing more, nothing less.