I’m pegging then as a 4-5 win team, with 6 being the result of MAJOR overachieving. This is going to be a learning year with a paper thin team (no depth anywhere) thanks to DG’s cap mess he left. They might get some good games in early, but with a roster this thin, by mid-season the inevitable injuries will drag the team down to a LONG run of losses to end the season.
RE: Over
Reale01 : 6:17 pm : link : reply
In comment 15730046 Ira said:
Quote:
1) Easier schedule
2) Injuries s/b better
3) Better o-line
4) Better pass rush
Agree w you Ira.
Also I think better coaching. HC, DC, and OC.
This. I agree with the over. Not sure it will be "easy" but I'll be very surprised if we don't win at least 5 of 17 games. I agree with whomever said above that an over-under at 7 makes it tough. 7-10 would not surprise me.
At 4.5 it's an easy over. Last year they had a decimated offensive line and Mike Glennon / Jake fromm combined started 6 games. The schedule was much harder too.
Just for reference vegas has the giants at 7.5. That line is set to get action on both sides.
At 4.5 it's an easy over. Last year they had a decimated offensive line and Mike Glennon / Jake fromm combined started 6 games. The schedule was much harder too.
Just for reference vegas has the giants at 7.5. That line is set to get action on both sides.
In a lot ways, I'm not interested in the Vegas line. I'm curious how much better people think we are over recent iterations of this franchise. Consensus seems to be, we should have a better season this year than has been average over the last five seasons, according to a lot of BBIers. But, I'm also curious if anyone would take the under and why or why not. So far no one is taking the under. I think that's telling of how optimistic people are of this new FO.
I’m pegging then as a 4-5 win team, with 6 being the result of MAJOR overachieving. This is going to be a learning year with a paper thin team (no depth anywhere) thanks to DG’s cap mess he left. They might get some good games in early, but with a roster this thin, by mid-season the inevitable injuries will drag the team down to a LONG run of losses to end the season.
Excellent post. I think the same. The over/under number seems too low. I see about 5 wins.
At 4.5 it's an easy over. Last year they had a decimated offensive line and Mike Glennon / Jake fromm combined started 6 games. The schedule was much harder too.
Just for reference vegas has the giants at 7.5. That line is set to get action on both sides.
I don’t know how Vegas books do it. Maybe a crystal ball, but like setting lines for games, it’s rare they’re not razor close . Don’t expect to win more then 5 games.
I don’t know how Vegas books do it. Maybe a crystal ball, but like setting lines for games, it’s rare they’re not razor close . Don’t expect to win more then 5 games.
I don’t know how Vegas books do it. Maybe a crystal ball, but like setting lines for games, it’s rare they’re not razor close . Don’t expect to win more then 5 games.
Vegas has it at 6.5
I think that's the right number to generate action.
People like the draft (which was VERY good), but forgot that the Giants had to dump most of their depth to comply with the cap. Each and every position on this team is exactly one quality player deep. A 17 game season will not only result in attrition but a LOT of losses.
It has nothing to do with the schedule, the coaching staff or even Jones.
It has EVERYTHING to do with the cap debacle that DG left this team in, forcing them to strip to the bone.
If people don’t adjust their thinking, this site will be an absolute shitshow come December.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't think it's an easy over
At 4.5 it's an easy over. Last year they had a decimated offensive line and Mike Glennon / Jake fromm combined started 6 games. The schedule was much harder too.
Just for reference vegas has the giants at 7.5. That line is set to get action on both sides.
In a lot ways, I'm not interested in the Vegas line. I'm curious how much better people think we are over recent iterations of this franchise. Consensus seems to be, we should have a better season this year than has been average over the last five seasons, according to a lot of BBIers. But, I'm also curious if anyone would take the under and why or why not. So far no one is taking the under. I think that's telling of how optimistic people are of this new FO.
Not really that as much as you set the number ridiculously low. Yes people like this front office but many also think they will suck this year.
4 or 5 is ridiculously low over under even if the giants did lose 12 games every year prior. And there are 17 games now which makes it’s even worse.
At 4.5 it's an easy over. Last year they had a decimated offensive line and Mike Glennon / Jake fromm combined started 6 games. The schedule was much harder too.
Just for reference vegas has the giants at 7.5. That line is set to get action on both sides.
In a lot ways, I'm not interested in the Vegas line. I'm curious how much better people think we are over recent iterations of this franchise. Consensus seems to be, we should have a better season this year than has been average over the last five seasons, according to a lot of BBIers. But, I'm also curious if anyone would take the under and why or why not. So far no one is taking the under. I think that's telling of how optimistic people are of this new FO.
Not really that as much as you set the number ridiculously low. Yes people like this front office but many also think they will suck this year.
4 or 5 is ridiculously low over under even if the giants did lose 12 games every year prior. And there are 17 games now which makes it’s even worse.
I disagree and that's the point of thread. rich hit the nail on the head. People are likely going to be very annoying by the end of the year. And it's going to feed the Terps and bw brigade.
Why?
We have a better OL,on paper, and Jones and Barkley should be healthy along with Galloday and Toney. My point is we have not been talented, or healthy or well coached of late and our record shows it. Just stay healthy and hope that we get those early wins that a new team usually always gives away with mental miscues and turnovers they fix as the season progresses.
I will say this: if the starting units can stay "above average healthy" meaning key players on both sides stay healthy we can win 9 games, yes 9 games, as the schedule is not as hard as it could be. But that means Jones, Barkley, Galloday, Toney, Thomas, Glowinski, Neal, Shepard stay healthy on offense and on defense guys like Martinez come back strong and near probowl level again. We need our DL to exhibit superior run defense and generate pressure.
Get healthy. Stay healthy. Practice thru camp. Play the pre-season games for God's sake. And win game 1!
Don’t understand how you can predict a worse record
Last year not only were we a team with no OL to begin with but became the worst injured team since 2009 and we had a tougher schedule. I don’t know what this year will bring but you can’t credibility predict a worse situation than last year. And I think this year we are probably a more talented team on paper.
better coaching and an easier schedule should allow for a modest six or seven win season.
This is a learning year for a lot of the young players,and, more importantly, for the rookie HC and his staff. I hope to see improvement in play, improvement in coaching and improvement in roster management. Wins and losses will not matter as much as the needle pointing in the right direction.
Now had you said 6.5...that would be a much more difficult decision.
This. 6.5 is the Vegas line now, someone said above. That to me is the hard one. I think we'll win at least 5 or 6, maybe 7 or 8 - but that's a big "maybe." My view is that both Daboll/Kafka on O and Wink on D swing for the fences more than the Judge staff. Some games it will work and we'll get some wins. Some games it won't work. And injuries are always a factor.
Now had you said 6.5...that would be a much more difficult decision.
This. 6.5 is the Vegas line now, someone said above. That to me is the hard one. I think we'll win at least 5 or 6, maybe 7 or 8 - but that's a big "maybe." My view is that both Daboll/Kafka on O and Wink on D swing for the fences more than the Judge staff. Some games it will work and we'll get some wins. Some games it won't work. And injuries are always a factor.
That is pretty much my take on this team as well. The question is whether we will see something more consistently like 4th Quarter and OT vs. New Orleans when the previous regime seemed to open the playbook or, at the first sign of trouble, do they turtle?
Seems like somewhere around 4-6 wins has been our sweet-spot
They won 4 last year with Jones missing nearly half the games, a worse coaching staff and a more difficult schedule.
I have serious doubts about Jones, BUT if Dexter doesn't go offside against WFT and Engram catches the ball against the Eagles, a dropped easy interception against Atlanta and the team is 7-4 with Jones at QB. If the system and offensive line was part of the problem you have to think a little improvement this year in the offense leads to a few more wins.
I don’t know how Vegas books do it. Maybe a crystal ball, but like setting lines for games, it’s rare they’re not razor close . Don’t expect to win more then 5 games.
They set lines based on betting flow. If they set it at 4.5 and a ton of early action bets the over it moves to 5.5. When the action starts flowing to the under it moves back down. It is not a crystal ball and is not based on game/team analysis. It is based on the flow of bets so that it incorporates thousands/millions of opinions.
Leading the nfl in games missed by starters then yeah, I could definitely see it. This is the Giants number one issue far and away…light years beyond your quarterback fears.
RE: If your prediction includes the Giants once again
Leading the nfl in games missed by starters then yeah, I could definitely see it. This is the Giants number one issue far and away…light years beyond your quarterback fears.
The QB problem is partially because he is on the games missed list every year.
will be a major leap forward. final chance for d.j. to prove himself as either a viable nfl starter, or a journeyman backup........and its all in regards to how they can coach him up and get 8 not only reading defenses, but being able to out think and execute them, show some deceptiveness and game time/pocket awareness.
will be a major leap forward. final chance for d.j. to prove himself as either a viable nfl starter, or a journeyman backup........and its all in regards to how they can coach him up and get 8 not only reading defenses, but being able to out think and execute them, show some deceptiveness and game time/pocket awareness.
And maybe get him to stop running down the field like he is a ram trying to establish his dominance.
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
Eventually- when the players he has chosen for the roster are purged and replaced with better ones.
Daboll's not a miracle worker. Four fucking years of Gettleman cannot be erased in one season. They need time to evaluate the roster and move forward.
If you won't give them this, I feel you're not thinking rationally.
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. Yes, Wink’s scheme creates confusion and takes adjustment periods to deal with. However, he’s not dealing with all-pro players out there. Martinez, Thibs and others weren’t even on the field- and they ran circles around the offense.
Yes, the offense was missing most of its wideouts, but even then, the reports were that the QBs would have taken multiple sacks regardless of who was out there. Sounding familiar?
The team has a number of better players, but not enough. Further, injuries can and will happen- Thibs is already limping. When these inevitable injuries happen, the team play will sink to lower and lower levels- there are not even replacement players behind them at many positions. The bottom half of the roster might not even make most teams in the league.
This is going to be a multi-year turnaround. There was no cap space for a “quick fix” infusion of vets and only so much can be expected of rookies. Stop feeding the delusions here and accept this is NOT going to be a good team.
There is very little talent, and even less depth on this roster. It's the least talented team in the division with the worst quarterback, and the receivers are extremely unreliable. I think scoring points is again going to be an issue.
Even if you love Daboll and choose to ignore he's never been a head coach and will need a learning curve, there just isn't much talent in this roster.
At first I was like, easy over because the Giants have one of the easiest schedules in the NFL.
But the defense seems poised to give up a lot of points, à la Winks high stakes scheme in Baltimore w/o good corners. I think Winks high risk, high reward defense requires an offense that can put points on the board. It also requires corners that can hold up in man coverage. So, we’re going get some hits on the other teams QB and that’s always positive but we’re gonna give up a lot of points too.
I guess the hope on offense is that first year HC Dabs can make Jones into something he’s never been? Possible? Sure. Likely? No. More likely is that the most important position in sports is again manned by an injury prone slow processing turn over machine that doesn’t score TDs. So, where do the points come from?
Even with the easy schedule this is a first year head coach with a bottom of the NFL QB1 and a roster decimated by Getty’s foolish last gasp. So, I’ll still take the over but I’m not sure the question was as nuts as I first thought.
In comment 15730701 rich in DC said:
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
The players are better than they were at the end of last year, except
Maybe the DBs, so unless you feel that this front office staff is worse than the last 2, and that the coaching staff is worse than the last 3, I would have to put the over/under at 6.5.
Has exactly one team at 4.5 o/u or worse and that is the Houston Texans at exactly 4.5. Giants are between 6.5 or 7 depending on where you look. I understand that everybody is tripping over themselves to bill themselves as realistic now but you would be a fool to bet that under. They could easily hit that over in a 17 game season and not be a good team which is the likely outcome.
In comment 15730701 rich in DC said:
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
No, its not. This site has been a DISASTER during the season lately because the fans on this site have built unrealistic expectations over the past several years. I see it happening again- and don’t really relish having to stay away from the toxicity that will take over the site when the team can’t meet those overinflated expectations.
In comment 15730701 rich in DC said:
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
No, its not. This site has been a DISASTER during the season lately because the fans on this site have built unrealistic expectations over the past several years. I see it happening again- and don’t really relish having to stay away from the toxicity that will take over the site when the team can’t meet those overinflated expectations.
.
Referencing a none contact session as support is not a good way to make that argument in my opinion
In comment 15730701 rich in DC said:
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
No, its not. This site has been a DISASTER during the season lately because the fans on this site have built unrealistic expectations over the past several years. I see it happening again- and don’t really relish having to stay away from the toxicity that will take over the site when the team can’t meet those overinflated expectations.
.
Referencing a none contact session as support is not a good way to make that argument in my opinion
Which is EXACTLY what many here have argued over the years- only to find the results were no different when the pads went on.
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. Yes, Wink’s scheme creates confusion and takes adjustment periods to deal with. However, he’s not dealing with all-pro players out there. Martinez, Thibs and others weren’t even on the field- and they ran circles around the offense.
Yes, the offense was missing most of its wideouts, but even then, the reports were that the QBs would have taken multiple sacks regardless of who was out there. Sounding familiar?
The team has a number of better players, but not enough. Further, injuries can and will happen- Thibs is already limping. When these inevitable injuries happen, the team play will sink to lower and lower levels- there are not even replacement players behind them at many positions. The bottom half of the roster might not even make most teams in the league.
This is going to be a multi-year turnaround. There was no cap space for a “quick fix” infusion of vets and only so much can be expected of rookies. Stop feeding the delusions here and accept this is NOT going to be a good team.
Evan Neal is an upgrade over solder. Glowinski is an upgrade over Hernandez. Tyrod Taylor is an upgrade over glennon / Fromm. You can talk all you want about rookie struggles. Sometimes there is addition by subtraction. Solder, Hernandez and Engram are those type of players. Last year we lost a lot of players to injuries and won 4 games. Daniel Jones missed 6. Do you not think we would have put up some offensive effort if Taylor was starting for Jones instead of fromm or Glennon?
Your view is the glass is half empty. Some views including mine is that the glass is half full. That's the beauty of the game. The results will reveal itself. I think the offensive line is improved. Is it completed? No, but improved?...without a doubt. Will they struggle at times? Yes. Will it be as bad as last year? Nope
We are talking about possibly 3 or 4 more wins over the disaster that last year was. I think the offense is going to be more diverse, more aggressive and dare I say....creative.
The defense will be aggressive. I'm sure it will result in blown coverages and easy scores, but it will also create havoc on an opposing offenses and create turnovers and big stops. Last year we got picked apart play by play.
Stop telling us what we should or should not think. You disagree, that is your opinion....not fact, because it has not happened yet.
Maybe the team is relatively healthy. Maybe Jones and Taylor both go down for the season and we're relying on Davis Webb to run the offense.
I'd say given the schedule, the over under is 5-6 games. There's still an overall lack of talent on the team, especially at the skill positions and the defensive backfield, but at least on paper it looks better than last year.
We're also putting a lot of hope in guys that might be really good a year or two from now, but have a rookie season to get through first.
In comment 15730701 rich in DC said:
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
No, its not. This site has been a DISASTER during the season lately because the fans on this site have built unrealistic expectations over the past several years. I see it happening again- and don’t really relish having to stay away from the toxicity that will take over the site when the team can’t meet those overinflated expectations.
.
Referencing a none contact session as support is not a good way to make that argument in my opinion
Which is EXACTLY what many here have argued over the years- only to find the results were no different when the pads went on.
"easy"
3 out of the last 5 years would be an under... just saying...
They won 4 last year with Jones missing nearly half the games, a worse coaching staff and a more difficult schedule.
Quote:
Especially with our QB situation
They won 4 last year with Jones missing nearly half the games, a worse coaching staff and a more difficult schedule.
So now Jones will be healthy and a winning player? We have two injury prone mediocre QBs. Not exactly a recipe for a playoff run.
2) Injuries s/b better
3) Better o-line
4) Better pass rush
2) Injuries s/b better
3) Better o-line
4) Better pass rush
Agree w you Ira.
Also I think better coaching. HC, DC, and OC.
Healthier Barkley in particular.
I think we play meaningful football into December.
Reale01 : 6:17 pm : link : reply
In comment 15730046 Ira said:
Quote:
1) Easier schedule
2) Injuries s/b better
3) Better o-line
4) Better pass rush
Agree w you Ira.
Also I think better coaching. HC, DC, and OC.
Healthier Barkley in particular.
I think we play meaningful football into December.
O will be light years better. So will D
Reale01 : 6:17 pm : link : reply
In comment 15730046 Ira said:
Quote:
1) Easier schedule
2) Injuries s/b better
3) Better o-line
4) Better pass rush
Agree w you Ira.
Also I think better coaching. HC, DC, and OC.
This. I agree with the over. Not sure it will be "easy" but I'll be very surprised if we don't win at least 5 of 17 games. I agree with whomever said above that an over-under at 7 makes it tough. 7-10 would not surprise me.
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In comment 15730035 adamg said:
Quote:
Especially with our QB situation
They won 4 last year with Jones missing nearly half the games, a worse coaching staff and a more difficult schedule.
So now Jones will be healthy and a winning player? We have two injury prone mediocre QBs. Not exactly a recipe for a playoff run.
He didn't say playoff run, he said easy over.
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In comment 15730039 Toth029 said:
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In comment 15730035 adamg said:
Quote:
Especially with our QB situation
They won 4 last year with Jones missing nearly half the games, a worse coaching staff and a more difficult schedule.
So now Jones will be healthy and a winning player? We have two injury prone mediocre QBs. Not exactly a recipe for a playoff run.
He didn't say playoff run, he said easy over.
He can speak for himself.
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In comment 15730040 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15730039 Toth029 said:
Quote:
In comment 15730035 adamg said:
Quote:
Especially with our QB situation
They won 4 last year with Jones missing nearly half the games, a worse coaching staff and a more difficult schedule.
So now Jones will be healthy and a winning player? We have two injury prone mediocre QBs. Not exactly a recipe for a playoff run.
He didn't say playoff run, he said easy over.
He can speak for himself.
Get the bug out of your butt.
Get the bug out of your butt.
Fuck off, asshole.
Now, 5.5 or 6.5 ehhhhh.....different story
Just for reference vegas has the giants at 7.5. That line is set to get action on both sides.
Just for reference vegas has the giants at 7.5. That line is set to get action on both sides.
In a lot ways, I'm not interested in the Vegas line. I'm curious how much better people think we are over recent iterations of this franchise. Consensus seems to be, we should have a better season this year than has been average over the last five seasons, according to a lot of BBIers. But, I'm also curious if anyone would take the under and why or why not. So far no one is taking the under. I think that's telling of how optimistic people are of this new FO.
Excellent post. I think the same. The over/under number seems too low. I see about 5 wins.
Just for reference vegas has the giants at 7.5. That line is set to get action on both sides.
Excellent analysis TrueBlue. Makes sense.
This.
Trust Vegas.
With some luck, the OL develops and the Wink defense 9 wins is possible......although unlikely.
All things equal I'd pick the under at 7.5, only because I think 7 is the right ceiling.
But that's dependent on Thomas, Barkley, and Jones not missing significant time. And I'd never bet a dollar on that outcome.
O line much improved. Bellinger, Allen at TE. Barkley healthy. Better coaching.
Every year I say this team will surprise to the upside. Eventually I will be right!
O line much improved. Bellinger, Allen at TE. Barkley healthy. Better coaching.
Every year I say this team will surprise to the upside. Eventually I will be right!
Haha. LFG big blue!
Vegas has it at 6.5
Quote:
I don’t know how Vegas books do it. Maybe a crystal ball, but like setting lines for games, it’s rare they’re not razor close . Don’t expect to win more then 5 games.
Vegas has it at 6.5
I think that's the right number to generate action.
People like the draft (which was VERY good), but forgot that the Giants had to dump most of their depth to comply with the cap. Each and every position on this team is exactly one quality player deep. A 17 game season will not only result in attrition but a LOT of losses.
It has nothing to do with the schedule, the coaching staff or even Jones.
It has EVERYTHING to do with the cap debacle that DG left this team in, forcing them to strip to the bone.
If people don’t adjust their thinking, this site will be an absolute shitshow come December.
Quote:
Get the bug out of your butt.
Fuck off, asshole.
My comment remains.
Quote:
At 4.5 it's an easy over. Last year they had a decimated offensive line and Mike Glennon / Jake fromm combined started 6 games. The schedule was much harder too.
Just for reference vegas has the giants at 7.5. That line is set to get action on both sides.
In a lot ways, I'm not interested in the Vegas line. I'm curious how much better people think we are over recent iterations of this franchise. Consensus seems to be, we should have a better season this year than has been average over the last five seasons, according to a lot of BBIers. But, I'm also curious if anyone would take the under and why or why not. So far no one is taking the under. I think that's telling of how optimistic people are of this new FO.
Not really that as much as you set the number ridiculously low. Yes people like this front office but many also think they will suck this year.
4 or 5 is ridiculously low over under even if the giants did lose 12 games every year prior. And there are 17 games now which makes it’s even worse.
Quote:
In comment 15730090 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
At 4.5 it's an easy over. Last year they had a decimated offensive line and Mike Glennon / Jake fromm combined started 6 games. The schedule was much harder too.
Just for reference vegas has the giants at 7.5. That line is set to get action on both sides.
In a lot ways, I'm not interested in the Vegas line. I'm curious how much better people think we are over recent iterations of this franchise. Consensus seems to be, we should have a better season this year than has been average over the last five seasons, according to a lot of BBIers. But, I'm also curious if anyone would take the under and why or why not. So far no one is taking the under. I think that's telling of how optimistic people are of this new FO.
Not really that as much as you set the number ridiculously low. Yes people like this front office but many also think they will suck this year.
4 or 5 is ridiculously low over under even if the giants did lose 12 games every year prior. And there are 17 games now which makes it’s even worse.
I disagree and that's the point of thread. rich hit the nail on the head. People are likely going to be very annoying by the end of the year. And it's going to feed the Terps and bw brigade.
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In comment 15730035 adamg said:
Quote:
Especially with our QB situation
They won 4 last year with Jones missing nearly half the games, a worse coaching staff and a more difficult schedule.
So now Jones will be healthy and a winning player? We have two injury prone mediocre QBs. Not exactly a recipe for a playoff run.
Tyrod Taylor could start the entire year and I still think we could go 6-11, 5-12 at worst.
We have a better OL,on paper, and Jones and Barkley should be healthy along with Galloday and Toney. My point is we have not been talented, or healthy or well coached of late and our record shows it. Just stay healthy and hope that we get those early wins that a new team usually always gives away with mental miscues and turnovers they fix as the season progresses.
I will say this: if the starting units can stay "above average healthy" meaning key players on both sides stay healthy we can win 9 games, yes 9 games, as the schedule is not as hard as it could be. But that means Jones, Barkley, Galloday, Toney, Thomas, Glowinski, Neal, Shepard stay healthy on offense and on defense guys like Martinez come back strong and near probowl level again. We need our DL to exhibit superior run defense and generate pressure.
Get healthy. Stay healthy. Practice thru camp. Play the pre-season games for God's sake. And win game 1!
This is a learning year for a lot of the young players,and, more importantly, for the rookie HC and his staff. I hope to see improvement in play, improvement in coaching and improvement in roster management. Wins and losses will not matter as much as the needle pointing in the right direction.
this is a 4-win team, unless Head Coach Brian Daboll somehow pulls a rabbit out of his hat.
This. 6.5 is the Vegas line now, someone said above. That to me is the hard one. I think we'll win at least 5 or 6, maybe 7 or 8 - but that's a big "maybe." My view is that both Daboll/Kafka on O and Wink on D swing for the fences more than the Judge staff. Some games it will work and we'll get some wins. Some games it won't work. And injuries are always a factor.
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Now had you said 6.5...that would be a much more difficult decision.
This. 6.5 is the Vegas line now, someone said above. That to me is the hard one. I think we'll win at least 5 or 6, maybe 7 or 8 - but that's a big "maybe." My view is that both Daboll/Kafka on O and Wink on D swing for the fences more than the Judge staff. Some games it will work and we'll get some wins. Some games it won't work. And injuries are always a factor.
That is pretty much my take on this team as well. The question is whether we will see something more consistently like 4th Quarter and OT vs. New Orleans when the previous regime seemed to open the playbook or, at the first sign of trouble, do they turtle?
They very well may play better this year but that may only translate into more competitive games, not wins. That’s a start...
Quote:
Especially with our QB situation
They won 4 last year with Jones missing nearly half the games, a worse coaching staff and a more difficult schedule.
They set lines based on betting flow. If they set it at 4.5 and a ton of early action bets the over it moves to 5.5. When the action starts flowing to the under it moves back down. It is not a crystal ball and is not based on game/team analysis. It is based on the flow of bets so that it incorporates thousands/millions of opinions.
The QB problem is partially because he is on the games missed list every year.
And maybe get him to stop running down the field like he is a ram trying to establish his dominance.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
Some of you are just used to this. 4-12 is not normal and rarely excusable.
3-12-1 — Parcells later admitted he did a bad job that first year.
Coughlin’s first year he goes 6-10 on the backs of one healthy player — Tiki and maybe Shockey.
2003 fassel goes 4-12. Fired with good reason.
Bad teams don’t even accept 4-12. It’s an awful record. It actually takes effort to be that bad. 4-13 is even worse.
Demand better.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
Eventually- when the players he has chosen for the roster are purged and replaced with better ones.
Daboll's not a miracle worker. Four fucking years of Gettleman cannot be erased in one season. They need time to evaluate the roster and move forward.
If you won't give them this, I feel you're not thinking rationally.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. Yes, Wink’s scheme creates confusion and takes adjustment periods to deal with. However, he’s not dealing with all-pro players out there. Martinez, Thibs and others weren’t even on the field- and they ran circles around the offense.
Yes, the offense was missing most of its wideouts, but even then, the reports were that the QBs would have taken multiple sacks regardless of who was out there. Sounding familiar?
The team has a number of better players, but not enough. Further, injuries can and will happen- Thibs is already limping. When these inevitable injuries happen, the team play will sink to lower and lower levels- there are not even replacement players behind them at many positions. The bottom half of the roster might not even make most teams in the league.
This is going to be a multi-year turnaround. There was no cap space for a “quick fix” infusion of vets and only so much can be expected of rookies. Stop feeding the delusions here and accept this is NOT going to be a good team.
Even if you love Daboll and choose to ignore he's never been a head coach and will need a learning curve, there just isn't much talent in this roster.
But the defense seems poised to give up a lot of points, à la Winks high stakes scheme in Baltimore w/o good corners. I think Winks high risk, high reward defense requires an offense that can put points on the board. It also requires corners that can hold up in man coverage. So, we’re going get some hits on the other teams QB and that’s always positive but we’re gonna give up a lot of points too.
I guess the hope on offense is that first year HC Dabs can make Jones into something he’s never been? Possible? Sure. Likely? No. More likely is that the most important position in sports is again manned by an injury prone slow processing turn over machine that doesn’t score TDs. So, where do the points come from?
Even with the easy schedule this is a first year head coach with a bottom of the NFL QB1 and a roster decimated by Getty’s foolish last gasp. So, I’ll still take the over but I’m not sure the question was as nuts as I first thought.
Before the 1982 season people didnt think 4-5 was possible. In the COVID era 10-6 is possible. 6-10 is more likely, 6-11 more likely still.
I see the schedule potential for 8-9 wins.
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
No, its not. This site has been a DISASTER during the season lately because the fans on this site have built unrealistic expectations over the past several years. I see it happening again- and don’t really relish having to stay away from the toxicity that will take over the site when the team can’t meet those overinflated expectations.
Quote:
In comment 15730701 rich in DC said:
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
No, its not. This site has been a DISASTER during the season lately because the fans on this site have built unrealistic expectations over the past several years. I see it happening again- and don’t really relish having to stay away from the toxicity that will take over the site when the team can’t meet those overinflated expectations.
Referencing a none contact session as support is not a good way to make that argument in my opinion
I picked the over myself. And yes, I'm yelling at everyone in the thread.
Quote:
In comment 15730877 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15730701 rich in DC said:
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
No, its not. This site has been a DISASTER during the season lately because the fans on this site have built unrealistic expectations over the past several years. I see it happening again- and don’t really relish having to stay away from the toxicity that will take over the site when the team can’t meet those overinflated expectations.
.
Referencing a none contact session as support is not a good way to make that argument in my opinion
Which is EXACTLY what many here have argued over the years- only to find the results were no different when the pads went on.
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. Yes, Wink’s scheme creates confusion and takes adjustment periods to deal with. However, he’s not dealing with all-pro players out there. Martinez, Thibs and others weren’t even on the field- and they ran circles around the offense.
Yes, the offense was missing most of its wideouts, but even then, the reports were that the QBs would have taken multiple sacks regardless of who was out there. Sounding familiar?
The team has a number of better players, but not enough. Further, injuries can and will happen- Thibs is already limping. When these inevitable injuries happen, the team play will sink to lower and lower levels- there are not even replacement players behind them at many positions. The bottom half of the roster might not even make most teams in the league.
This is going to be a multi-year turnaround. There was no cap space for a “quick fix” infusion of vets and only so much can be expected of rookies. Stop feeding the delusions here and accept this is NOT going to be a good team.
Evan Neal is an upgrade over solder. Glowinski is an upgrade over Hernandez. Tyrod Taylor is an upgrade over glennon / Fromm. You can talk all you want about rookie struggles. Sometimes there is addition by subtraction. Solder, Hernandez and Engram are those type of players. Last year we lost a lot of players to injuries and won 4 games. Daniel Jones missed 6. Do you not think we would have put up some offensive effort if Taylor was starting for Jones instead of fromm or Glennon?
Your view is the glass is half empty. Some views including mine is that the glass is half full. That's the beauty of the game. The results will reveal itself. I think the offensive line is improved. Is it completed? No, but improved?...without a doubt. Will they struggle at times? Yes. Will it be as bad as last year? Nope
We are talking about possibly 3 or 4 more wins over the disaster that last year was. I think the offense is going to be more diverse, more aggressive and dare I say....creative.
The defense will be aggressive. I'm sure it will result in blown coverages and easy scores, but it will also create havoc on an opposing offenses and create turnovers and big stops. Last year we got picked apart play by play.
Stop telling us what we should or should not think. You disagree, that is your opinion....not fact, because it has not happened yet.
I'd say given the schedule, the over under is 5-6 games. There's still an overall lack of talent on the team, especially at the skill positions and the defensive backfield, but at least on paper it looks better than last year.
We're also putting a lot of hope in guys that might be really good a year or two from now, but have a rookie season to get through first.
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In comment 15730971 rich in DC said:
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It was one session Rich, come on.
In comment 15730877 joeinpa said:
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In comment 15730701 rich in DC said:
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
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Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
No, its not. This site has been a DISASTER during the season lately because the fans on this site have built unrealistic expectations over the past several years. I see it happening again- and don’t really relish having to stay away from the toxicity that will take over the site when the team can’t meet those overinflated expectations.
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Referencing a none contact session as support is not a good way to make that argument in my opinion
Which is EXACTLY what many here have argued over the years- only to find the results were no different when the pads went on.