They won 4 last year with Jones missing nearly half the games, a worse coaching staff and a more difficult schedule.
I have serious doubts about Jones, BUT if Dexter doesn't go offside against WFT and Engram catches the ball against the Eagles, a dropped easy interception against Atlanta and the team is 7-4 with Jones at QB. If the system and offensive line was part of the problem you have to think a little improvement this year in the offense leads to a few more wins.
I don’t know how Vegas books do it. Maybe a crystal ball, but like setting lines for games, it’s rare they’re not razor close . Don’t expect to win more then 5 games.
They set lines based on betting flow. If they set it at 4.5 and a ton of early action bets the over it moves to 5.5. When the action starts flowing to the under it moves back down. It is not a crystal ball and is not based on game/team analysis. It is based on the flow of bets so that it incorporates thousands/millions of opinions.
Leading the nfl in games missed by starters then yeah, I could definitely see it. This is the Giants number one issue far and away…light years beyond your quarterback fears.
RE: If your prediction includes the Giants once again
Leading the nfl in games missed by starters then yeah, I could definitely see it. This is the Giants number one issue far and away…light years beyond your quarterback fears.
The QB problem is partially because he is on the games missed list every year.
will be a major leap forward. final chance for d.j. to prove himself as either a viable nfl starter, or a journeyman backup........and its all in regards to how they can coach him up and get 8 not only reading defenses, but being able to out think and execute them, show some deceptiveness and game time/pocket awareness.
will be a major leap forward. final chance for d.j. to prove himself as either a viable nfl starter, or a journeyman backup........and its all in regards to how they can coach him up and get 8 not only reading defenses, but being able to out think and execute them, show some deceptiveness and game time/pocket awareness.
And maybe get him to stop running down the field like he is a ram trying to establish his dominance.
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
Eventually- when the players he has chosen for the roster are purged and replaced with better ones.
Daboll's not a miracle worker. Four fucking years of Gettleman cannot be erased in one season. They need time to evaluate the roster and move forward.
If you won't give them this, I feel you're not thinking rationally.
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. Yes, Wink’s scheme creates confusion and takes adjustment periods to deal with. However, he’s not dealing with all-pro players out there. Martinez, Thibs and others weren’t even on the field- and they ran circles around the offense.
Yes, the offense was missing most of its wideouts, but even then, the reports were that the QBs would have taken multiple sacks regardless of who was out there. Sounding familiar?
The team has a number of better players, but not enough. Further, injuries can and will happen- Thibs is already limping. When these inevitable injuries happen, the team play will sink to lower and lower levels- there are not even replacement players behind them at many positions. The bottom half of the roster might not even make most teams in the league.
This is going to be a multi-year turnaround. There was no cap space for a “quick fix” infusion of vets and only so much can be expected of rookies. Stop feeding the delusions here and accept this is NOT going to be a good team.
There is very little talent, and even less depth on this roster. It's the least talented team in the division with the worst quarterback, and the receivers are extremely unreliable. I think scoring points is again going to be an issue.
Even if you love Daboll and choose to ignore he's never been a head coach and will need a learning curve, there just isn't much talent in this roster.
At first I was like, easy over because the Giants have one of the easiest schedules in the NFL.
But the defense seems poised to give up a lot of points, à la Winks high stakes scheme in Baltimore w/o good corners. I think Winks high risk, high reward defense requires an offense that can put points on the board. It also requires corners that can hold up in man coverage. So, we’re going get some hits on the other teams QB and that’s always positive but we’re gonna give up a lot of points too.
I guess the hope on offense is that first year HC Dabs can make Jones into something he’s never been? Possible? Sure. Likely? No. More likely is that the most important position in sports is again manned by an injury prone slow processing turn over machine that doesn’t score TDs. So, where do the points come from?
Even with the easy schedule this is a first year head coach with a bottom of the NFL QB1 and a roster decimated by Getty’s foolish last gasp. So, I’ll still take the over but I’m not sure the question was as nuts as I first thought.
In comment 15730701 rich in DC said:
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
The players are better than they were at the end of last year, except
Maybe the DBs, so unless you feel that this front office staff is worse than the last 2, and that the coaching staff is worse than the last 3, I would have to put the over/under at 6.5.
Has exactly one team at 4.5 o/u or worse and that is the Houston Texans at exactly 4.5. Giants are between 6.5 or 7 depending on where you look. I understand that everybody is tripping over themselves to bill themselves as realistic now but you would be a fool to bet that under. They could easily hit that over in a 17 game season and not be a good team which is the likely outcome.
In comment 15730701 rich in DC said:
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
No, its not. This site has been a DISASTER during the season lately because the fans on this site have built unrealistic expectations over the past several years. I see it happening again- and don’t really relish having to stay away from the toxicity that will take over the site when the team can’t meet those overinflated expectations.
In comment 15730701 rich in DC said:
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
No, its not. This site has been a DISASTER during the season lately because the fans on this site have built unrealistic expectations over the past several years. I see it happening again- and don’t really relish having to stay away from the toxicity that will take over the site when the team can’t meet those overinflated expectations.
.
Referencing a none contact session as support is not a good way to make that argument in my opinion
In comment 15730701 rich in DC said:
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
No, its not. This site has been a DISASTER during the season lately because the fans on this site have built unrealistic expectations over the past several years. I see it happening again- and don’t really relish having to stay away from the toxicity that will take over the site when the team can’t meet those overinflated expectations.
.
Referencing a none contact session as support is not a good way to make that argument in my opinion
Which is EXACTLY what many here have argued over the years- only to find the results were no different when the pads went on.
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. Yes, Wink’s scheme creates confusion and takes adjustment periods to deal with. However, he’s not dealing with all-pro players out there. Martinez, Thibs and others weren’t even on the field- and they ran circles around the offense.
Yes, the offense was missing most of its wideouts, but even then, the reports were that the QBs would have taken multiple sacks regardless of who was out there. Sounding familiar?
The team has a number of better players, but not enough. Further, injuries can and will happen- Thibs is already limping. When these inevitable injuries happen, the team play will sink to lower and lower levels- there are not even replacement players behind them at many positions. The bottom half of the roster might not even make most teams in the league.
This is going to be a multi-year turnaround. There was no cap space for a “quick fix” infusion of vets and only so much can be expected of rookies. Stop feeding the delusions here and accept this is NOT going to be a good team.
Evan Neal is an upgrade over solder. Glowinski is an upgrade over Hernandez. Tyrod Taylor is an upgrade over glennon / Fromm. You can talk all you want about rookie struggles. Sometimes there is addition by subtraction. Solder, Hernandez and Engram are those type of players. Last year we lost a lot of players to injuries and won 4 games. Daniel Jones missed 6. Do you not think we would have put up some offensive effort if Taylor was starting for Jones instead of fromm or Glennon?
Your view is the glass is half empty. Some views including mine is that the glass is half full. That's the beauty of the game. The results will reveal itself. I think the offensive line is improved. Is it completed? No, but improved?...without a doubt. Will they struggle at times? Yes. Will it be as bad as last year? Nope
We are talking about possibly 3 or 4 more wins over the disaster that last year was. I think the offense is going to be more diverse, more aggressive and dare I say....creative.
The defense will be aggressive. I'm sure it will result in blown coverages and easy scores, but it will also create havoc on an opposing offenses and create turnovers and big stops. Last year we got picked apart play by play.
Stop telling us what we should or should not think. You disagree, that is your opinion....not fact, because it has not happened yet.
Maybe the team is relatively healthy. Maybe Jones and Taylor both go down for the season and we're relying on Davis Webb to run the offense.
I'd say given the schedule, the over under is 5-6 games. There's still an overall lack of talent on the team, especially at the skill positions and the defensive backfield, but at least on paper it looks better than last year.
We're also putting a lot of hope in guys that might be really good a year or two from now, but have a rookie season to get through first.
In comment 15730701 rich in DC said:
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
No, its not. This site has been a DISASTER during the season lately because the fans on this site have built unrealistic expectations over the past several years. I see it happening again- and don’t really relish having to stay away from the toxicity that will take over the site when the team can’t meet those overinflated expectations.
.
Referencing a none contact session as support is not a good way to make that argument in my opinion
Which is EXACTLY what many here have argued over the years- only to find the results were no different when the pads went on.
They very well may play better this year but that may only translate into more competitive games, not wins. That’s a start...
Quote:
Especially with our QB situation
They won 4 last year with Jones missing nearly half the games, a worse coaching staff and a more difficult schedule.
They set lines based on betting flow. If they set it at 4.5 and a ton of early action bets the over it moves to 5.5. When the action starts flowing to the under it moves back down. It is not a crystal ball and is not based on game/team analysis. It is based on the flow of bets so that it incorporates thousands/millions of opinions.
The QB problem is partially because he is on the games missed list every year.
And maybe get him to stop running down the field like he is a ram trying to establish his dominance.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
Some of you are just used to this. 4-12 is not normal and rarely excusable.
3-12-1 — Parcells later admitted he did a bad job that first year.
Coughlin’s first year he goes 6-10 on the backs of one healthy player — Tiki and maybe Shockey.
2003 fassel goes 4-12. Fired with good reason.
Bad teams don’t even accept 4-12. It’s an awful record. It actually takes effort to be that bad. 4-13 is even worse.
Demand better.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
Eventually- when the players he has chosen for the roster are purged and replaced with better ones.
Daboll's not a miracle worker. Four fucking years of Gettleman cannot be erased in one season. They need time to evaluate the roster and move forward.
If you won't give them this, I feel you're not thinking rationally.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. Yes, Wink’s scheme creates confusion and takes adjustment periods to deal with. However, he’s not dealing with all-pro players out there. Martinez, Thibs and others weren’t even on the field- and they ran circles around the offense.
Yes, the offense was missing most of its wideouts, but even then, the reports were that the QBs would have taken multiple sacks regardless of who was out there. Sounding familiar?
The team has a number of better players, but not enough. Further, injuries can and will happen- Thibs is already limping. When these inevitable injuries happen, the team play will sink to lower and lower levels- there are not even replacement players behind them at many positions. The bottom half of the roster might not even make most teams in the league.
This is going to be a multi-year turnaround. There was no cap space for a “quick fix” infusion of vets and only so much can be expected of rookies. Stop feeding the delusions here and accept this is NOT going to be a good team.
Even if you love Daboll and choose to ignore he's never been a head coach and will need a learning curve, there just isn't much talent in this roster.
But the defense seems poised to give up a lot of points, à la Winks high stakes scheme in Baltimore w/o good corners. I think Winks high risk, high reward defense requires an offense that can put points on the board. It also requires corners that can hold up in man coverage. So, we’re going get some hits on the other teams QB and that’s always positive but we’re gonna give up a lot of points too.
I guess the hope on offense is that first year HC Dabs can make Jones into something he’s never been? Possible? Sure. Likely? No. More likely is that the most important position in sports is again manned by an injury prone slow processing turn over machine that doesn’t score TDs. So, where do the points come from?
Even with the easy schedule this is a first year head coach with a bottom of the NFL QB1 and a roster decimated by Getty’s foolish last gasp. So, I’ll still take the over but I’m not sure the question was as nuts as I first thought.
Before the 1982 season people didnt think 4-5 was possible. In the COVID era 10-6 is possible. 6-10 is more likely, 6-11 more likely still.
I see the schedule potential for 8-9 wins.
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
No, its not. This site has been a DISASTER during the season lately because the fans on this site have built unrealistic expectations over the past several years. I see it happening again- and don’t really relish having to stay away from the toxicity that will take over the site when the team can’t meet those overinflated expectations.
Quote:
In comment 15730701 rich in DC said:
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
No, its not. This site has been a DISASTER during the season lately because the fans on this site have built unrealistic expectations over the past several years. I see it happening again- and don’t really relish having to stay away from the toxicity that will take over the site when the team can’t meet those overinflated expectations.
Referencing a none contact session as support is not a good way to make that argument in my opinion
I picked the over myself. And yes, I'm yelling at everyone in the thread.
Quote:
In comment 15730877 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15730701 rich in DC said:
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
No, its not. This site has been a DISASTER during the season lately because the fans on this site have built unrealistic expectations over the past several years. I see it happening again- and don’t really relish having to stay away from the toxicity that will take over the site when the team can’t meet those overinflated expectations.
.
Referencing a none contact session as support is not a good way to make that argument in my opinion
Which is EXACTLY what many here have argued over the years- only to find the results were no different when the pads went on.
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. Yes, Wink’s scheme creates confusion and takes adjustment periods to deal with. However, he’s not dealing with all-pro players out there. Martinez, Thibs and others weren’t even on the field- and they ran circles around the offense.
Yes, the offense was missing most of its wideouts, but even then, the reports were that the QBs would have taken multiple sacks regardless of who was out there. Sounding familiar?
The team has a number of better players, but not enough. Further, injuries can and will happen- Thibs is already limping. When these inevitable injuries happen, the team play will sink to lower and lower levels- there are not even replacement players behind them at many positions. The bottom half of the roster might not even make most teams in the league.
This is going to be a multi-year turnaround. There was no cap space for a “quick fix” infusion of vets and only so much can be expected of rookies. Stop feeding the delusions here and accept this is NOT going to be a good team.
Evan Neal is an upgrade over solder. Glowinski is an upgrade over Hernandez. Tyrod Taylor is an upgrade over glennon / Fromm. You can talk all you want about rookie struggles. Sometimes there is addition by subtraction. Solder, Hernandez and Engram are those type of players. Last year we lost a lot of players to injuries and won 4 games. Daniel Jones missed 6. Do you not think we would have put up some offensive effort if Taylor was starting for Jones instead of fromm or Glennon?
Your view is the glass is half empty. Some views including mine is that the glass is half full. That's the beauty of the game. The results will reveal itself. I think the offensive line is improved. Is it completed? No, but improved?...without a doubt. Will they struggle at times? Yes. Will it be as bad as last year? Nope
We are talking about possibly 3 or 4 more wins over the disaster that last year was. I think the offense is going to be more diverse, more aggressive and dare I say....creative.
The defense will be aggressive. I'm sure it will result in blown coverages and easy scores, but it will also create havoc on an opposing offenses and create turnovers and big stops. Last year we got picked apart play by play.
Stop telling us what we should or should not think. You disagree, that is your opinion....not fact, because it has not happened yet.
I'd say given the schedule, the over under is 5-6 games. There's still an overall lack of talent on the team, especially at the skill positions and the defensive backfield, but at least on paper it looks better than last year.
We're also putting a lot of hope in guys that might be really good a year or two from now, but have a rookie season to get through first.
Quote:
In comment 15730971 rich in DC said:
Quote:
It was one session Rich, come on.
In comment 15730877 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15730701 rich in DC said:
[quote] In comment 15730664 djm said:
Quote:
Any team that goes 4-13 is poorly coached with maybe a few exceptions.
If the giants are turning things around we will see it manifest this season. If they are 4-13 again it’s a huge red flag, especially in regards to Daboll.
That’s the scary truth that many here won’t agree with. Eventually you won’t have the big bad wolf to blame anymore in DG.
I think they win over 4.5 games because I have to. I can’t even begin to process another year like 2021 or 2017 or 2003.
4-13 would be a disaster unless the entire team was injured by late October.
This just ignores reality on SO many levels, its amazing.
After reading through the dozens of posts attempting to justify how this will be a 6-9 win team here, I see the same delusions about last year’s team echoing here that its scary.
The players are better, the schedule is easier, new coaches, OL improved, etc. etc. etc.
In fact, all of the above can be true- and the team still is a 4-5 win team.
People act like its all about the coaching. A complete an utter falsehood. Bottom line is that it is and always has been about the talent and scheme to use the talent.
This team has an offensive and defensive identity and scheme now. The schemes will likely work, but the results won’t be good. The problem is the same as last year, the year before that and so on- there simply is not enough talent for this to be a good team. Choose ANY player at ANY position- doesn’t even matter who it is- and tell me that the team will be successful with their backup. You can’t do it because what is behind them is moot even replacement level.
Furthermore, MANY here are creating this mental expectation that the rookies will come in and produce from day 1. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve- how quickly were forget Thomas’ struggles early. Unlike vets who know their roles and what is expected, rookie simply take longer to figure it out. Teams will scheme and take advantage of those weaknesses.
If I were a fan, even though there was limited contact and limited knowledge of playbooks, I would be VERY concerned about how much the defense dominated the offense. quote]
Kind of over the top?
No, its not. This site has been a DISASTER during the season lately because the fans on this site have built unrealistic expectations over the past several years. I see it happening again- and don’t really relish having to stay away from the toxicity that will take over the site when the team can’t meet those overinflated expectations.
.
Referencing a none contact session as support is not a good way to make that argument in my opinion
Which is EXACTLY what many here have argued over the years- only to find the results were no different when the pads went on.