For whatever it is worth, I tend to be a "glass is half full" type and fan of this team despite their overall terrible play since mid 2012 (post SB collapse). Drafting has been terrible and UFA signings costly and overpaid one year stop gaps.
I believe in Daniel Jones and I believe he will have his best season as a NYG; however, I also am sure he is not an"Elite 8" type of QB like Mahomes, Rodgers, Stafford and the like.
His rookie year he was #2 all through camp and got thrown into the fray as a starter and flourished EXCEPT for his record breaking fumbles. Remove those fumbles and he was solid. He has since improved greatly in this area.
His second season was with a new HC and Covid camp. How do you learn under those conditions and how do you play without an OL? He was two drops away from making the playoffs and that isn't his fault.
His third year, well, again the camp wasn't run like it should have been based on what I read and pre-season games needed to be taken more seriously. You got the sense that they knew they lacked talent and played scared and old school on offense even after Garret was fired.
This year, Jones has a clean slate and a new offense that Daboll will tailor to his strengths. I think Jones will have the best OL of his career in front of him and if Barkley can regain his rookie form well this offense will move the ball.
The Giants need their playmakers to stay healthy and the OL to work together in camp so there is some cohesion out the gates. I think we go Thomas-Glowinski-Feliciano-Lemiuex-Neal or something like that. Veterans and a rookie.
The defense has some potential pass rushers this year and an attack scheme. Only time will tell but if the young corners step up and the nickel backs stand up this defense could be good. Remember, the leader Martinez should be back and assuming he has regained his form our defense should be good enough.
I think we need to come out strong this year and not be a total shitshow out of the gates like the last two years. If we show well early with a cheap win or two and progress with the new systems we could be in meaningful games in December.
Jones, Barkley, Thomas, Galloday, Toney, Shepard if these guys can finally stay healthy this offense can click.
My prayer is 9 - 8 but realistically 7 wins is very possible.
On defense, Wink’s style should make for some exciting stretches, but our backfield is suspect and depth all around is thin.
I expect six wins and I will be OK with that. I want to see the needle pointing in the right direction.
On defense, Wink’s style should make for some exciting stretches, but our backfield is suspect and depth all around is thin.
I expect six wins and I will be OK with that. I want to see the needle pointing in the right direction.
The only way we get 9 wins with a new HC, system is if we win early and stay healthy. If we start 0-4 due to the "learning curve" well 6 wins is a good bet.
If the WRs get back on the field and do they job they were hired for instead of bringing headlines for wrong reasons, then I have more optimism.
If Daniel Jones starts figuring out how to get the ball in the end zone when they are inside the 20, then I have more optimism.
If the items above don't start happening early and often, the team will not be scoring enough points and then I have no optimism.
Where I will find joy is in seeing progress and development in some of these young guys. Wan’Dale and Aaron Robinson, McKinney, Thomas, Toney, Flott, Bellinger, possibly SB… if we can get these guys in a groove by the end of the season I’ll be excited about winning in 2023.
After that I hope to see some long term potential at the perimeter positions on both sides which I think they have a chance. More pieces still to be added.
In terms of the QB I never get into rankings. What good is a guy who ranks at number 10 but comes up short in big spots. You can win a solid QB who plays big when it counts. QB has always been a variable position based on the overall team. I don't think that Jones is the answer but I also believe that this teams biggest problem has not been the QB.
What we should want is the makings of a really good team (and coaching) that the next QB (with lots of potential) starting his rookie contract has 4-5 years to compete for a SB imv.
I think if Jones stays healthy and our Oline plays to potential we will see a competitive team.
The area of concern is how long its going to take for the team to get comfortable in the new systems on offense and defense, the new oline to gel, the rookies to adjust to NFL speed, the new HC and OC to start catching up on learning curve, etc.
For these reasons it would be a shot in the dark to put a number on wins and losses and won't be how I'll be evaluating this team either.
If the WRs get back on the field and do they job they were hired for instead of bringing headlines for wrong reasons, then I have more optimism.
If Daniel Jones starts figuring out how to get the ball in the end zone when they are inside the 20, then I have more optimism.
If the items above don't start happening early and often, the team will not be scoring enough points and then I have no optimism.
Think they will ease AT back in slowly in training camp and try to ramp him up for opening day. If he was still limping in early June I would give in a few xtra weeks to heal up after July 26. If it is chronic, he will practice less and managed. I hope it doesn’t impeded a 2nd contract. Anyone know what the real issue is? Ankle, foot etc.?
So to get on the plus side of wins and losses, the offense and defense both need to play a lot better. Give the offense more chances to score and get the defense off the field faster.
Not a chance jones sniffs elite 8. Be happy if he touch’s top 14.
I think his ceiling in slightly better than average. He does some things well, some ok, some crappy. Fast but not shifty or sudden. Throws well but doesn’t compute as fast as his duke brain would make u think.
Book smarts don’t equate to field anticipation.
If he is slightly better than average do we sign him to a 3 yr deal?
Cause it could be. A lot worse. Obviously, it could be better too.
Nothing really out of line with having this opinion, other than Glowinski is a bit better than a cast off. He was firmly entrenched as a starter on a playoff team's OL for three years.
Bredesen is a washout the Giants took a flier on to try to patch holes.
I also think Jones will be good if he stays healthy. I think he needs to break through and have a game winning drive. That will open up his confidence and could lead to some good things. I like what I am hearing about playing looser and attacking. The Giants have been in a shell on both sides of the ball under the past three coaches.
I want them to play meaningful football into December and will be disappointed with less than that. I don't see any dominant teams in the NFC. I think the Giants can contend for playoffs, but are not really a threat to get to the SB.
Golliday refuses to dive for balls, hes a complete Bust. Toney could give 2 fucks about being great, Saquon will be injured week 2 or 3. The O line is better but still just eh. the secondary is highly suspect, linebackers improved but not great. We do have the makings of a really good d line.
9 wins? 8 wins? cmon man..just please cmon. 6 wins and not having 7 of 8 games with digit losses to end the season will be positive. Why would anyone see 8 or 9 wins and for sakes alive why would anyone talk about daniel jones being 14th best QB. He is awful, he has never made a good pass on 3rd down. When it's a big spot , you can be sure that idiot will throw behind or too wide or too high.
He is a bottom 5 qb all day and 17x on sunday. He stinks and to even breathe that you think he can be top 14 ? Ill guaranty your a young kid. Top 14 my fucking ass, hes a piece of shit. Remember this post the next time we have 3rd down and we need that dave brown clone to make a decent throw. Daniel Jones 14th best lol. Then someone says do we sign him if hes only 14th best..dude. IF Daniel Jones is 14th best our horrendous owners will crap themselves and sign him to 5 years 170 million. 14th best is a good NFL qb, This has nothing to do with the bad o line and revolving door at wr and our awful TE room but when he has had time, on big downs he can not make a fucking throw.
I am the diehard of all diehards, I live and breath with this team. I would love nothing more to be proven wrong. The problems though is the Mara's and that's not going away. I have extremely low expectations.
Schoen tore down what he could and still maintain the illusion of competitiveness in 2022 for Mara and the blue glasses superfans, but that process isn't close to over.
The run game should much better suited to Barkley running style. More like how he was used at Penn State. The offense is going to look better. The bar Daniel has set is so low. Daniel needs to kill it. Better than last is nowhere close to good enough. Daniel needs to play so well that Terps would be willing to franchise him. That is how high a bar Daniel needs to hit. It isn't worth the risk other wise.
Even those of you that love him, can't deny the injuries. That alone is a Giant risk. None of his college or profession play deserves another contract. This year needs to be SO good for Daniel, it makes us forget the last 2.
If Schoen is a smart guy he's going to understand the following going into 2023:
- Drafting a QB is smarter than paying Jones. The 2023 franchise tag is expected to be around $31.5M...unthinkable. Even paying Jones half that makes less sense than drafting a guy.
- Paying running backs is foolish. They're isn't a team in the NFL that is happily paying to money for a back.
- These three 2023 cap hits make no sense:
Williams: $26.3
Golladay: $21.4
Jackson: $19.5
It's not a question of whether they can carry those cap numbers. It's a question of whether they should.
My "must practice & play" guys are Jones, Barkley (receiver, burst of speed scares D's), Thomas (big dropoff), Glowinski, Neal, Galloday (deep threat, redzone), Toney (jiggle, take it to house), Shepard (middle of the field 3rd downs) on offense and on defense I'll wait but Williams, Lawrence, Thibs, Martinez (leadership), Jackson (only proven CB), McKinney and Ojulari seem like our top guys.
The schedule bodes well if we come out of the gates with early wins, those "cheap" wins were you were maybe even outplayed but a 20-19 last second FG wins it. That means the team is healthy, playing hard and putting it together in just ennough spots.
Quote:
Not sure I disagree but 2 points. For one, it looks like it was a good draft. I know it’s early but in certain positions, even if the rookies are not special, they are definitely better, maybe a lot better than last year. Two, the Giants are already in a good CAP situation for next year. I agree about highly unlikely resigning Jones and Barkley but they won’t have to cut other big dollar guys unless they decide they want to. And, there are a few good QB prospects in the draft that even with an average record, close to or at 500, they might pick up a QB in the draft. Our hopes are that Schoen is the real thing.
If Schoen is a smart guy he's going to understand the following going into 2023:
- Drafting a QB is smarter than paying Jones. The 2023 franchise tag is expected to be around $31.5M...unthinkable. Even paying Jones half that makes less sense than drafting a guy.
- Paying running backs is foolish. They're isn't a team in the NFL that is happily paying to money for a back.
- These three 2023 cap hits make no sense:
Williams: $26.3
Golladay: $21.4
Jackson: $19.5
It's not a question of whether they can carry those cap numbers. It's a question of whether they should.
Link - ( New Window )
Lets say Daboll and Schoen decide to let Jones & Barkley "walk" via UFA and both land big deals netting us 3rd round supplemental picks. Lets say we cut big money guys to save money and only sign mid-level UFA's to fill gaps. We draft a QB round #1 and pray he is the next Rodgers, taken later in a draft but developing into a hall of famer...
I mean, the key is whether Jones is good enough to take you to the show. Jones is not elite 8 type but may be good enough and by mid season we should pretty much know his fate.
In summary: 1. Stay & Get Healthy, 2. Develop young players & assess veterans, 3. Keep the right guys and sign the right new guys 2023, 4. Draft like a champion. This year is all about learning what you got and if we somehow get lucky and eekk out 8 or more wins I'd be a happy camper.
If they can solidify those areas, they can INSTANTLY be much better than they've been. It doesn't have to be the long growing process people are making it out to be - they just need to be reasonable in those areas and we're in for a much improved season.
In summary: 1. Stay & Get Healthy, 2. Develop young players & assess veterans, 3. Keep the right guys and sign the right new guys 2023, 4. Draft like a champion. This year is all about learning what you got and if we somehow get lucky and eekk out 8 or more wins I'd be a happy camper.
Is that all?
You should have your own podcast. Call it The Big Blue Banality.
If they can solidify those areas, they can INSTANTLY be much better than they've been. It doesn't have to be the long growing process people are making it out to be - they just need to be reasonable in those areas and we're in for a much improved season.
Quote:
You can't change bad circumstances no matter how bad you want to win. The bottom line is this team has had the worst combination of front office, coaching, skill & OL talent and injury luck in the NFL.
If they can solidify those areas, they can INSTANTLY be much better than they've been. It doesn't have to be the long growing process people are making it out to be - they just need to be reasonable in those areas and we're in for a much improved season.
Exactly,we can rebound quickly if in fact these areas are solidified, even better than average perhaps? Many of our key guys are young and as long as Jones is very effective we should have a much better team. The rebuild is easier if in fact Jones is the answer and plays 17 games.
Agree, I don't know why so many think the Giants cannot be competitive. IMO - If Jones can ne good the team will be good. The only way they will be bad is if Jones is bad and I don't think he will be bad.
Quote:
In comment 15734527 mittenedman said:
Quote:
You can't change bad circumstances no matter how bad you want to win. The bottom line is this team has had the worst combination of front office, coaching, skill & OL talent and injury luck in the NFL.
If they can solidify those areas, they can INSTANTLY be much better than they've been. It doesn't have to be the long growing process people are making it out to be - they just need to be reasonable in those areas and we're in for a much improved season.
Exactly,we can rebound quickly if in fact these areas are solidified, even better than average perhaps? Many of our key guys are young and as long as Jones is very effective we should have a much better team. The rebuild is easier if in fact Jones is the answer and plays 17 games.
Agree, I don't know why so many think the Giants cannot be competitive. IMO - If Jones can ne good the team will be good. The only way they will be bad is if Jones is bad and I don't think he will be bad.
If this OL can run block and Barkley has returned to pre-ACL form perhaps Jones can manage the games just enough to pull out that 24-23 win instead of seeing a 23-21 loss! Or worse!
And if Thibs, Neal, Robinson and the 2nd year guys like Toney develop well this team could be a force late in the year. Lots of ifs.
That Buffalo team was not good at all, but they protected the ball on offense (other than Peterman’s infamous game against the Chargers), got some key interceptions, and outperformed expectations. The rebuild resumed in earnest the next year: Beane had to trade up to draft Allen because of the team’s unexpected success - IIRC moving up from an acquired spot, not Buffalo’s original one. The record dropped to 6-10, but Beane was continuing to do what was needed to build a real contender. That’s what they finally became in 2020, when Allen reached the top tier.
If Schoen has a blueprint, it probably resembles Beane’s. And, like Beane, Schoen will make contingency plans and adapt to circumstances. For example, the Bradberry situation did not go according to plan: cutting him outright was not what NYG envisioned, but keeping him would have involved straying even farther from the roadmap. Based on how Jones, Barkley, and many others perform, there will be more decisions to make, of varying difficulty. Schoen has already shown that he will make hard choices, as Beane did.
Where does the team stand after OTAs and mini-camp? Same place they stood before, basically. We know a bit more about the depth chart, and the players have started learning the playbooks. That’s it. The plethora of red jerseys might be a red flag, but most will be forgotten by September. There’s ample room for both optimism and pessimism, because so little is settled. Nobody is right or wrong at this early stage. The eventual results will seem to vindicate either the optimists or pessimists, but only in hindsight.
Unlike E.J. Manuel, Jones has a year left on his contract and isn’t a complete bust, so he gets a final chance to establish himself with the new regime. The ice is thin, though. Schoen inherits a worse team than Beane did. He won’t hesitate to jettison holdovers.
That Buffalo team was not good at all, but they protected the ball on offense (other than Peterman’s infamous game against the Chargers), got some key interceptions, and outperformed expectations. The rebuild resumed in earnest the next year: Beane had to trade up to draft Allen because of the team’s unexpected success - IIRC moving up from an acquired spot, not Buffalo’s original one. The record dropped to 6-10, but Beane was continuing to do what was needed to build a real contender. That’s what they finally became in 2020, when Allen reached the top tier.
If Schoen has a blueprint, it probably resembles Beane’s. And, like Beane, Schoen will make contingency plans and adapt to circumstances. For example, the Bradberry situation did not go according to plan: cutting him outright was not what NYG envisioned, but keeping him would have involved straying even farther from the roadmap. Based on how Jones, Barkley, and many others perform, there will be more decisions to make, of varying difficulty. Schoen has already shown that he will make hard choices, as Beane did.
Where does the team stand after OTAs and mini-camp? Same place they stood before, basically. We know a bit more about the depth chart, and the players have started learning the playbooks. That’s it. The plethora of red jerseys might be a red flag, but most will be forgotten by September. There’s ample room for both optimism and pessimism, because so little is settled. Nobody is right or wrong at this early stage. The eventual results will seem to vindicate either the optimists or pessimists, but only in hindsight.
For example, lets say both Jones and Barkley play 12 of 17 games very, very well and are the reason we win. Some team will way overpay them in UFA. We may let both walk IF we think we can draft and possibly sign players to fill those spots way cheaper.
We just don't know...yet.
I'm an optimist but the lack of "top end" talent concerns me. However, I also have hopes that Jones, Barkley, Thomas, Thibs and yes even Toney are "special" this year and guys like McKinney, Williams, Jackson, Ojulari, Lawrence are very, very good and keep us in games at least.