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Eli picks his all-time dream lineup

bigblue5611 : 6/13/2022 8:56 pm
from his playing days while talking to Cam Newton.

The premise is Eli has the ball at his own 20, down by four with 3:15 left.

WR 1 - Plax
WR 2 - OBJ
Slot WR - Cruz
TE - Boss
RB - Tiki

Also explains Tiki helped save his (Eli's) career in those early years.
Link - ( New Window )
Hard to argue with that  
David B. : 6/13/2022 9:02 pm : link
He never played with Bavaro.
Boss a bit of a surprise  
mattlawson : 6/13/2022 9:03 pm : link
But cest le vie
think i'd go Nicks over Plax  
Eric on Li : 6/13/2022 9:05 pm : link
Plax was sort of matchup dependent.
Maybe this will help thaw Barber to  
Ben in Tampa : 6/13/2022 9:07 pm : link
The Giants faithful
Boss over Shockey is a surprise  
GNewGiants : 6/13/2022 9:09 pm : link
I guess the rumors and suggestions that Shockey messed up on some routes has some truth behind it.
RE: Boss a bit of a surprise  
j_rud : 6/13/2022 9:19 pm : link
In comment 15731983 mattlawson said:
Quote:
But cest le vie


I actually would've been surprised if he didn't say Boss. Reliable and played in high pressure situations with him.
RE: Maybe this will help thaw Barber to  
bluefin : 6/13/2022 9:22 pm : link
In comment 15731987 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
The Giants faithful

warms me up even more to Eli, for being a big man
RE: Boss over Shockey is a surprise  
JerseyCityJoe : 6/13/2022 9:39 pm : link
In comment 15731989 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
I guess the rumors and suggestions that Shockey messed up on some routes has some truth behind it.

Eli hated Shockey's guts.
RE: think i'd go Nicks over Plax  
ChrisRick : 6/13/2022 10:18 pm : link
In comment 15731985 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Plax was sort of matchup dependent.


With all things created equal in regard to athletic ability, Burress still was 6’5 with a great wingspan with above average ball skills
RE: RE: Boss over Shockey is a surprise  
ElitoCanton : 6/13/2022 10:25 pm : link
With good reason. Shockey was a selfish ass.

In comment 15732014 JerseyCityJoe said:
Quote:
In comment 15731989 GNewGiants said:


Quote:


I guess the rumors and suggestions that Shockey messed up on some routes has some truth behind it.


Eli hated Shockey's guts.
I think he deep down would take  
fanoftheteam : 6/13/2022 10:48 pm : link
Hakeem over obj but would of gotten blasted if he said that
Hmm  
DC Gmen Fan : 6/13/2022 10:49 pm : link
No Toomer. Interesting.
Speaks to his longevity...  
moze1021 : 6/13/2022 11:16 pm : link
And success across so many personnel groups that he could name others without it being too shocking.
OBJ could take a routine slant to the endzone,  
CT Charlie : 6/13/2022 11:17 pm : link
which Hakeem and Amani seldom did.
I like the Giant's odds with that line-up.  
short lease : 6/14/2022 1:52 am : link
Was a little surprised that he didn't go with Shockey but, I thought I read somewhere that they did not get along very well?. Wasn't Eli a rookie very close to the end of Shockey's career? I thought I read that Shockey was a bit of a "bully" in the huddle and acted like the Giants were his team and he wasn't going to take a subordinate role to the rookie QB?

And, Boss was no slouch. Loved his toughness.
RE: OBJ could take a routine slant to the endzone,  
Toth029 : 6/14/2022 2:56 am : link
In comment 15732067 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
which Hakeem and Amani seldom did.


Hakeem took two plays to the house with a lot of YAC... in the playoffs.
RE: RE: OBJ could take a routine slant to the endzone,  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 6/14/2022 7:06 am : link
In comment 15732101 Toth029 said:
Quote:
In comment 15732067 CT Charlie said:


Quote:


which Hakeem and Amani seldom did.



Hakeem took two plays to the house with a lot of YAC... in the playoffs.


And OBJ did it a dozen times.
RE: RE: RE: OBJ could take a routine slant to the endzone,  
Thunderstruck27 : 6/14/2022 7:28 am : link
In comment 15732114 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
In comment 15732101 Toth029 said:


Quote:


In comment 15732067 CT Charlie said:


Quote:


which Hakeem and Amani seldom did.



Hakeem took two plays to the house with a lot of YAC... in the playoffs.



And OBJ did it a dozen times.


not in the playoffs he didn't
RE: RE: RE: OBJ could take a routine slant to the endzone,  
jvm52106 : 6/14/2022 8:07 am : link
In comment 15732114 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
In comment 15732101 Toth029 said:


Quote:


In comment 15732067 CT Charlie said:


Quote:


which Hakeem and Amani seldom did.



Hakeem took two plays to the house with a lot of YAC... in the playoffs.



And OBJ did it a dozen times.


Umm, not exactly in the playoffs. In fact Nicks showed up in 2011 post season like nobody before. If OBJ in 2016 playoffs produced even a tad of what Nicks did in the 2011 playoffs who knows where the Gmen go. Instead he flat out sucked and we were bounced quickly- and haven't recovered yet.
Beckham, not in his elite form  
UConn4523 : 6/14/2022 8:24 am : link
just showed his ability in the playoffs. Sucks it wasn't for us but I don't understand pretending like he wouldn't have eventually produced if he played more than 1 game for us. Absolutely love Nicks, but no problem whatsoever with Eli giving Beckham the nod.
RE: OBJ could take a routine slant to the endzone,  
BigBlue7 : 6/14/2022 8:27 am : link
In comment 15732067 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
which Hakeem and Amani seldom did.


Tell me you forget how good Hakeem Nicks was without directly saying it...
Reading into this a bit..  
Andy in Halifax : 6/14/2022 8:37 am : link
But I always thought Eli loved having a reliable TE and I think this kinda supports that. Most are surprised he didn't take Shockey at TE but I think the bigger surprise is that he didn't pick 10 personnel.

Burress, OBJ and Cruz are the right picks for 11 but you also have Nicks and Toomer... and he chose Boss over them. Eli wants a TE in that situation.

Not getting Eli his TE was a crime imo. Some was bad luck (Boss), but I think we should have done better at that position over the years.
No love for Leapin' Larry Donnell??  
Jimmy Googs : 6/14/2022 8:42 am : link
.
RE: Reading into this a bit..  
ChrisRick : 6/14/2022 8:46 am : link
In comment 15732153 Andy in Halifax said:
Quote:
But I always thought Eli loved having a reliable TE and I think this kinda supports that. Most are surprised he didn't take Shockey at TE but I think the bigger surprise is that he didn't pick 10 personnel.

Burress, OBJ and Cruz are the right picks for 11 but you also have Nicks and Toomer... and he chose Boss over them. Eli wants a TE in that situation.

Not getting Eli his TE was a crime imo. Some was bad luck (Boss), but I think we should have done better at that position over the years.


Yeah, reliability is key. More so in an offensive system in which the receivers have a responsibility to read the defense both pre and post snap to change their routes to attack a specific weakness of the coverage, each route working together. Definitely a high risk, high reward offense.
It was interesting  
Andrew in Austin : 6/14/2022 9:49 am : link
to hear how smart Cruz was and how many options they could give him off the off the same play. Probably even more impressive to me is how Eli & Cruz would be on the same page even with all the variables . . .
RE: Speaks to his longevity...  
JOrthman : 6/14/2022 10:11 am : link
In comment 15732066 moze1021 said:
Quote:
And success across so many personnel groups that he could name others without it being too shocking.


More of a testament to how many of our WR's careers were cut short by injury.
If Plax doesn't shoot himself in 2008...  
Klaatu : 6/14/2022 10:19 am : link
Do we draft Nicks in 2009?
RE: If Plax doesn't shoot himself in 2008...  
chick310 : 6/14/2022 10:22 am : link
In comment 15732232 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Do we draft Nicks in 2009?


Yes because Toomer was done.
RE: RE: Speaks to his longevity...  
moze1021 : 6/14/2022 10:26 am : link
In comment 15732223 JOrthman said:
Quote:
In comment 15732066 moze1021 said:


Quote:


And success across so many personnel groups that he could name others without it being too shocking.



More of a testament to how many of our WR's careers were cut short by injury.


Both.. I mean the guy had Tiki, Bradshaw/Jacobs, Saquon as his RBs... thats pretty nuts..

Also a testament how he kept making WRs very successful. None were as successful before or after Giants careers as they were with Eli (yes, I know injury also a major factor there, but it's still pretty incredible to think about)
RE: It was interesting  
moze1021 : 6/14/2022 10:28 am : link
In comment 15732203 Andrew in Austin said:
Quote:
to hear how smart Cruz was and how many options they could give him off the off the same play. Probably even more impressive to me is how Eli & Cruz would be on the same page even with all the variables . . .


Yeah that was a huge thing w/ the Gilbride offense... it's why Steve Smith was so good too, and why Randle never lived up to his athletic potential.. the amount of prep that Eli put in with those receivers to perfect was incredible... and when all was clicking, really really hard offense to stop.
RE: If Plax doesn't shoot himself in 2008...  
Eric on Li : 6/14/2022 10:32 am : link
In comment 15732232 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Do we draft Nicks in 2009?


i'd guess yes, Manningham was going into year 2 but he hardly played at all as a rookie. in addition to nicks they took barden. they weren't just replacing Plax but also Toomer and Shockey. So it was a big need and Nicks was a popular bpa choice.

OBJ is clearly WR1 in the eli era but still think plax gets a little overrated. he had his dominant games and he was a unicorn in terms of talent, but he wasn't nearly as well rounded as nicks was. Nicks did everything well, never had miscommunications, and he was also arguably more explosive. he definitely had more 40+ yard explosives. he was davante adams-esque on back shoulder throws.

Plax bullied smaller defenders and dominated certain matchups but also had a tendency to misplay balls and give up on certain routes. That's why his catch% is way lower than just about any other top WR. Almost 10% lower than Nicks despite the same YPC.
Was Boss that much better than Ballard?  
NINEster : 6/14/2022 12:08 pm : link
Asking as an outsider.
RE: Was Boss that much better than Ballard?  
ChrisRick : 6/14/2022 12:12 pm : link
In comment 15732303 NINEster said:
Quote:
Asking as an outsider.


Athletically, yes. Boss to me was Shockey lite in regard to athletic ability. Ballard knew how to find holes in the zone, and use his size and decent ball skills and to locate the ball before the defender.
To continue  
ChrisRick : 6/14/2022 12:13 pm : link
Boss had Ballard’s awareness, but with much better athletic ability.
RE: Boss over Shockey is a surprise  
Dr. D : 6/14/2022 12:42 pm : link
In comment 15731989 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
I guess the rumors and suggestions that Shockey messed up on some routes has some truth behind it.

I don't think it's a surprise at all. Besides running wrong routes, Shockey was a distraction (with his throw me the ball shit) and acted like a pain in Eli's ass.

Eli's play (probably his concentration and confidence) improved when Shockey went down. It was addition by subtraction (kind of like Engram).

If I was Eli, I'd much rather play with Boss than Shockey.
RE: RE: OBJ could take a routine slant to the endzone,  
upnyg : 6/14/2022 1:12 pm : link
In comment 15732146 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
In comment 15732067 CT Charlie said:


Quote:


which Hakeem and Amani seldom did.

That was the only surprise to me. Hakeem was the man for a period of time.



Tell me you forget how good Hakeem Nicks was without directly saying it...
RE: RE: If Plax doesn't shoot himself in 2008...  
JOrthman : 6/14/2022 1:15 pm : link
In comment 15732245 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15732232 Klaatu said:


Quote:


Do we draft Nicks in 2009?



i'd guess yes, Manningham was going into year 2 but he hardly played at all as a rookie. in addition to nicks they took barden. they weren't just replacing Plax but also Toomer and Shockey. So it was a big need and Nicks was a popular bpa choice.

OBJ is clearly WR1 in the eli era but still think plax gets a little overrated. he had his dominant games and he was a unicorn in terms of talent, but he wasn't nearly as well rounded as nicks was. Nicks did everything well, never had miscommunications, and he was also arguably more explosive. he definitely had more 40+ yard explosives. he was davante adams-esque on back shoulder throws.

Plax bullied smaller defenders and dominated certain matchups but also had a tendency to misplay balls and give up on certain routes. That's why his catch% is way lower than just about any other top WR. Almost 10% lower than Nicks despite the same YPC.


I was at a game once and saw Plax give up on a route. The corner covering him kept running and nearly picked it off.
RE: If Plax doesn't shoot himself in 2008...  
Go Terps : 6/14/2022 2:00 pm : link
In comment 15732232 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Do we draft Nicks in 2009?


Plax had checked out well before he shot himself. He had a big first two weeks, but got himself suspended for week 4. After that he didn't catch more than 4 balls in a game. He exceeded 40 yards twice in those last seven games. Then he thought it would be a good idea to wear a gun in his sweat pants.

I'm confident there was a lot of shit going on behind the scenes during 2007 too. Steve Smith said he never saw him at practice, and Plax almost missed the Super Bowl because he "slipped in the shower" the night before.
Eli certainly prefers  
ChrisRick : 6/14/2022 2:13 pm : link
Burress. In the Coughlin\Gilbride offense players making the incorrect reads sometimes would look like a player gave up on a route or make the Qb look like he had no idea how to play qb. They all missed reads from time to time.

Steve Smith also said Burress knew the offense inside and out, Smith would often ask Burress what he was supposed to do on any given down.
RE: To continue  
NINEster : 6/14/2022 2:20 pm : link
In comment 15732307 ChrisRick said:
Quote:
Boss had Ballard’s awareness, but with much better athletic ability.


I remember Boss being good and wondering why he was replaced.

Probably right before 2011 season if I recall correctly.
RE: RE: To continue  
Klaatu : 6/14/2022 2:39 pm : link
In comment 15732439 NINEster said:
Quote:
In comment 15732307 ChrisRick said:


Quote:


Boss had Ballard’s awareness, but with much better athletic ability.



I remember Boss being good and wondering why he was replaced.

Probably right before 2011 season if I recall correctly.


He was a free agent, and the Raiders offered him a lot more than the Giants were going to.
Boss  
ChrisRick : 6/14/2022 3:59 pm : link
Already had at least a couple of concussions at that point too.
RE: RE: RE: OBJ could take a routine slant to the endzone,  
Victor in CT : 6/14/2022 4:14 pm : link
In comment 15732114 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
In comment 15732101 Toth029 said:


Quote:


In comment 15732067 CT Charlie said:


Quote:


which Hakeem and Amani seldom did.



Hakeem took two plays to the house with a lot of YAC... in the playoffs.



And OBJ did it a dozen times.


so. I don't recall him doing anything at GB in the playoffs
RE: I think he deep down would take  
Ivan15 : 6/14/2022 5:21 pm : link
In comment 15732049 fanoftheteam said:
Quote:
Hakeem over obj but would of gotten blasted if he said that


Given the premise, I too would have thought Eli might have been more confident being able to go 80 yards in 3+ minutes with Toomer than with OBJ. He did it many times with Toomer, infrequently with OBJ.
Of all the names being thrown around, only Toomer and maybe Shockey  
Ivan15 : 6/14/2022 5:27 pm : link
Didn’t have a career ending injury. Jury is out on Beckham.

Really a rough sport.
RE: Of all the names being thrown around, only Toomer and maybe Shockey  
Ivan15 : 6/14/2022 5:30 pm : link
In comment 15732616 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
Didn’t have a career ending injury. Jury is out on Beckham.

Really a rough sport.


I forgot Tiki. He was the one player who could have kept playing productively but I was thinking RECEIVERS.
Glad to see Boss on there  
McNally's_Nuts : 6/14/2022 5:42 pm : link
especially so since I thought Eli got the poor guy killed against the Cardinals in that awful 2009 SNF game.
Kevin Boss now  
ChrisRick : 6/14/2022 5:45 pm : link
.
Boss Sports Performance - ( New Window )
RE: RE: If Plax doesn't shoot himself in 2008...  
McNally's_Nuts : 6/14/2022 5:49 pm : link
In comment 15732420 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15732232 Klaatu said:


Quote:


Do we draft Nicks in 2009?



Plax had checked out well before he shot himself. He had a big first two weeks, but got himself suspended for week 4. After that he didn't catch more than 4 balls in a game. He exceeded 40 yards twice in those last seven games. Then he thought it would be a good idea to wear a gun in his sweat pants.

I'm confident there was a lot of shit going on behind the scenes during 2007 too. Steve Smith said he never saw him at practice, and Plax almost missed the Super Bowl because he "slipped in the shower" the night before.


I feel like it was well documented that he was playing w/ torn ligaments in his ankle for pretty much the whole season. That's why he rarely practiced. Probably why he played so well in Green Bay, he couldn't feel anything.

It was communicated by many people that he did infact slip in the shower and sprained a knee ligament. He said he had a hard time cutting to his right, I think he even says this in a video the Giants put out.

He said "if my knee goes, it goes"

Shitty teammate? Yes. But Giants don't win without him in 2007.

I still say the 2008 demise wasn't due to Plax, it was due to the fact the defensive line was beat up due to injuries and ineffective backups. The Osi injury really put them in a bind because Kiwanuka was forced to go back to DE after spending all off season training as a LB and losing weight.

Giants ran the ball for 4.5 yards a clip against the Eagles, they couldn't stop it despite knowing it was coming. Giants lost due to the offense, not the defense. Oh and John Carney having an awful game didn't help either.
Oh and Eli  
McNally's_Nuts : 6/14/2022 5:50 pm : link
had a shit game, too.
RE: Oh and Eli  
Jimmy Googs : 6/14/2022 5:59 pm : link
In comment 15732632 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
had a shit game, too.


Outside of that Panther game where they ran for like 500 yards, Eli and offense were struggling to some degree scoring TDs at the end of the year.

The Philly playoff game was too many FGs as well...
RE: RE: Oh and Eli  
McNally's_Nuts : 6/14/2022 6:01 pm : link
In comment 15732639 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15732632 McNally's_Nuts said:


Quote:


had a shit game, too.



Outside of that Panther game where they ran for like 500 yards, Eli and offense were struggling to some degree scoring TDs at the end of the year.

The Philly playoff game was too many FGs as well...


I remember them having an issue in the redzone, too. Sure enough Bradshaw takes the opening kick off about 65-70 yards and Giants only get 3.

That was the coldest game I've ever went too. The Panthers couldn't stop our run game and we couldn't stop theirs. I believe DeAngelo Williams scored 4 TDs.
I didn't go to that Panther game but remember it was bitter cold  
Jimmy Googs : 6/14/2022 6:11 pm : link
and at night no less AND went overtime. Must have been brutal. Big win that was an empty victory we found out later.

Coldest most miserable game I ever went to was the Buffalo game at home in the Superbowl year of 1990. Cold, windy and freezing rain. Simms went down and we lost...but they redeemed themselves :-)
I think both Nicks & Odell-  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/14/2022 6:54 pm : link
if blessed with good health-had Canton potential.
RE: I didn't go to that Panther game but remember it was bitter cold  
McNally's_Nuts : 6/14/2022 7:13 pm : link
In comment 15732648 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and at night no less AND went overtime. Must have been brutal. Big win that was an empty victory we found out later.

Coldest most miserable game I ever went to was the Buffalo game at home in the Superbowl year of 1990. Cold, windy and freezing rain. Simms went down and we lost...but they redeemed themselves :-)


There was also a snowstorm the day before that turned everything into ice. Just awful. Glad they won but 3 weeks later they lost.

Funny thing is that game was for home field advantage and even the Panthers lost to the Cardinals the day before.
What? No Bear Pascoe??  
MeanBunny : 6/14/2022 8:26 pm : link
Actually, I think Amani Toomer is way fucking more clutch and better than OBJ...He was big and he had hands and he would run over you. Nothing cute, just a badass
Cam and Eli  
Spiciest Memelord : 6/15/2022 11:19 am : link
should do more shows together. Maybe a buddy cop show.
...  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/15/2022 11:29 am : link
“Shockey was there for a little bit, but he was kind of all over the place,” Manning said.

That quote says a lot coming from Eli.

Shockey was fun to watch, especially with the physical YAC stuff, but he definitely had his warts.

I feel bad that Nicks wasn't mentioned. I think Plax/Nicks is a toss-up, Plax had the size but Nicks was the more complete and reliable player. Odell at his best is by far the best Giants WR I've seen, but he obviously had his issues and it's hard to forget his GB playoff no-show in contrast with what Plax and Nicks did in similar situations in GB. Still, I feel like you'd have to take Odell here.
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