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NFT: Aaron Judge on pace to win a Triple Crown

MartyNJ1969 : 6/14/2022 12:16 pm
24 HR, 71 Hits, 48 RBI's, through 60 games. This forecast out to 68 HR, 203 hits, 147 RBI's. The overall numbers would make it the best triple crown numbers ever. I tried researching with Baseball-reference and could not find a better number for a player. Gehrig comes close. I left out AVG but the forecast indicates he will be above 320 for average over that time.

Based on the schedule, I think he can do this so long as he stays healthy.
Sounds like a great year  
JayBinQueens : 6/14/2022 12:19 pm : link
To have on a contract year
I'm on pace to win the triple crown too.  
Mike in Long Beach : 6/14/2022 12:22 pm : link
Just have to exclude home runs and RBIs like you excluded batting average for Judge.
Hits are not part of a triple crown season  
Pego61 : 6/14/2022 12:25 pm : link
so while he's having an amazing season, he's not on pace to win a triple crown. Even if you swapped in average for hits, he's nowhere near the average leaders. He's 44 points behind Arraez, 29 points behind J.D. Martinez.

Again, phenomenal year but not a triple crown year. MVP, you bet.
Marty  
DanMetroMan : 6/14/2022 12:26 pm : link
the triple crown is a specific "stat". It's HR's, Batting average and RBI. Judge is having an incredible season, he is not on pace to win a triple crown. Arraez is hitting .362, Judge .318. Judge is 6th in the AL in BA, 2nd in RBI (Ramirez).
Judge  
DanMetroMan : 6/14/2022 12:28 pm : link
should be the favorite for AL MVP. Leads in fWAR on the best team in baseball. Jose Ramirez is probably 2nd.
So the triple crown  
Mike from Ohio : 6/14/2022 12:29 pm : link
is no longer HR, Avg and RBIs, but whatever three stats someone likes?

What an odd post.
Yankees gambled and lost....  
Kmed6000 : 6/14/2022 12:31 pm : link
or at least they are losing big time. This may turn into a 10 year 400 million dollar contract if they want to keep him. Brutal job trying to lowball Judge.
Considering  
DanMetroMan : 6/14/2022 12:35 pm : link
the way the game is played now (launch angle, strikeouts etc) Arraez is truly incredible. Career .322 hitter, more walks than strikeouts. The other guy who stands out is Tim Anderson. Since 2019 (335 games) he's hitting .326. You just don't see guys like that in today's game.
RE: Yankees gambled and lost....  
UConn4523 : 6/14/2022 12:39 pm : link
In comment 15732326 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
or at least they are losing big time. This may turn into a 10 year 400 million dollar contract if they want to keep him. Brutal job trying to lowball Judge.


I think he has a chance of being the first half billion contract in US sports. Not a big chance, but a chance (he probably does if he's a couple years younger). He should get more than Trout though, IMO.
I  
DanMetroMan : 6/14/2022 12:42 pm : link
can't recommend "Rickey" by Howard Bryant any more highly for Yankee fans. I'm about 75% through the book and it's really a great read. I mentioned this the other day but Sandy Alderson didn't trust the A's scouting department so his asking price from the Yankees came via Baseball America's top 10 list lol. Also (and maybe this is well known by Yankee fans)

1. Steinbrenner didn't want Henderson, Billy Martin had to talk him into it

2. Mattingly to Texas was very close to happening
I don't see him getting 1/2 billion  
Kmed6000 : 6/14/2022 12:42 pm : link
because like you said, he will be 31, but he will def be pushing $40 million per, the big question will be who will give him that 10th year? I think someone may.
''Of all the dramatic things!''  
sb from NYT Forum : 6/14/2022 12:43 pm : link
[checks notes... Judge 10th in batting average]

Well, that's baseball Susan
RE: Yankees gambled and lost....  
MNP70 : 6/14/2022 12:50 pm : link
In comment 15732326 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
or at least they are losing big time. This may turn into a 10 year 400 million dollar contract if they want to keep him. Brutal job trying to lowball Judge.


Cashman finally reached out to Judge's agent last week. Hadn't spoken since spring training.
RE: I don't see him getting 1/2 billion  
UConn4523 : 6/14/2022 12:55 pm : link
In comment 15732338 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
because like you said, he will be 31, but he will def be pushing $40 million per, the big question will be who will give him that 10th year? I think someone may.


I agree, the age will prevent it.
Wait till he gets to the Belmont  
mort christenson : 6/14/2022 1:13 pm : link
then we will see if he has a shot.
RE: I'm on pace to win the triple crown too.  
MartyNJ1969 : 6/14/2022 1:23 pm : link
In comment 15732314 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
Just have to exclude home runs and RBIs like you excluded batting average for Judge.


True, I left out average but he is leading in three major Categories right now. Call it a revised triple Crown but for him to put up these numbers they are pretty awesome. He still has outside shot of getting avg up.
Judge is going to get insane $$$ this offseason  
MartyNJ1969 : 6/14/2022 1:28 pm : link
These numbers except for average are better than Mickey Mantle's 1956 season. Mantle hit 353 and its possible judge could get to that average if he cuts down on strikeouts.
RE: Yankees gambled and lost....  
Strahan91 : 6/14/2022 1:32 pm : link
In comment 15732326 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
or at least they are losing big time. This may turn into a 10 year 400 million dollar contract if they want to keep him. Brutal job trying to lowball Judge.

I bet he gets something in line with what he was asking for anyways. The Yankees made a fair offer at the time and Judge wanted more than anyone would've pegged his value at before this season. As long as he stays healthy he'll likely get what he initially was looking for, but I can't see him blowing past $35M AAV for 8-9 years.
RE: RE: I'm on pace to win the triple crown too.  
Mad Mike : 6/14/2022 1:32 pm : link
In comment 15732379 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
True, I left out average but he is leading in three major Categories right now. Call it a revised triple Crown but for him to put up these numbers they are pretty awesome. He still has outside shot of getting avg up.

Well actually you left out not only average but rbi's too, since he's not on pace to lead the league in that either. If your "revised" triple crown is HR's, runs, and ops, then you're right on. I wonder if mlb will have a ceremony to celebrate that trifecta.
RE: RE: I'm on pace to win the triple crown too.  
MartyNJ1969 : 6/14/2022 1:33 pm : link
In comment 15732379 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
In comment 15732314 Mike in Long Beach said:


Quote:


Just have to exclude home runs and RBIs like you excluded batting average for Judge.



True, I left out average but he is leading in three major Categories right now. Call it a revised triple Crown but for him to put up these numbers they are pretty awesome. He still has outside shot of getting avg up.


I wouldn't hang the hat on the average stat so long as Judge stays above 320, he is going to way outpace Mantle in Hits and RBI's compared to 1956 season if he keeps this up because he is going to have 1/4 more At bats this season because this team is going through the lineup 5-6 times a game ver the usual 3-4 for normal teams.
And calling it a lowball offer is a joke.  
Strahan91 : 6/14/2022 1:33 pm : link
It would have been the highest AAV contract for an Outfielder sans Mike Trout who is an all-time great and signed his deal at 27.
RE: RE: RE: I'm on pace to win the triple crown too.  
MartyNJ1969 : 6/14/2022 1:40 pm : link
In comment 15732391 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 15732379 MartyNJ1969 said:


Quote:


True, I left out average but he is leading in three major Categories right now. Call it a revised triple Crown but for him to put up these numbers they are pretty awesome. He still has outside shot of getting avg up.


Well actually you left out not only average but rbi's too, since he's not on pace to lead the league in that either. If your "revised" triple crown is HR's, runs, and ops, then you're right on. I wonder if mlb will have a ceremony to celebrate that trifecta.



If you look at the last 25 games, Judge is trending to surpass Jose Ramirez and Pete Alonzo in RBI's. that is if he keeps his average above 320
RE: And calling it a lowball offer is a joke.  
MartyNJ1969 : 6/14/2022 1:41 pm : link
In comment 15732393 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
It would have been the highest AAV contract for an Outfielder sans Mike Trout who is an all-time great and signed his deal at 27.


and he plays a great CF too. He might win a gold glove to boot.
Over  
DanMetroMan : 6/14/2022 1:43 pm : link
the last 30 days Paul Goldschmidt leads baseball in RBI (triple crown is league specific but because you mentioned Alonso). The AL Leader in RBI over the last 30 days is Jose Ramirez (27) Judge has 21, or 6th in the AL) over that time.
RE: Marty  
MartyNJ1969 : 6/14/2022 1:43 pm : link
In comment 15732319 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
the triple crown is a specific "stat". It's HR's, Batting average and RBI. Judge is having an incredible season, he is not on pace to win a triple crown. Arraez is hitting .362, Judge .318. Judge is 6th in the AL in BA, 2nd in RBI (Ramirez).


Dan, Project out the number of At bats Judge is going to have with this team vs those players you mentioned. He won't get the average but he will pass Alonzo and Ramirez in RBI's and hits.
RE: RE: Marty  
DanMetroMan : 6/14/2022 1:49 pm : link
In comment 15732406 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
In comment 15732319 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


the triple crown is a specific "stat". It's HR's, Batting average and RBI. Judge is having an incredible season, he is not on pace to win a triple crown. Arraez is hitting .362, Judge .318. Judge is 6th in the AL in BA, 2nd in RBI (Ramirez).



Dan, Project out the number of At bats Judge is going to have with this team vs those players you mentioned. He won't get the average but he will pass Alonzo and Ramirez in RBI's and hits.


0% snark, no idea what this means.

He's nowhere near a triple crown. Alonso has no impact on Judge winning triple crown, Arraez's 42 point advantage on average does.
I  
DanMetroMan : 6/14/2022 1:52 pm : link
don't understand "trending toward" means here. Ramirez has more RBI than Judge over the last 30 days, what is this "trend"? Ramirez 27, Judge 21
Right  
DanMetroMan : 6/14/2022 1:55 pm : link
now I'd go leaders-


AL MVP Judge with Ramirez on his tail and Devers third
NL MVP Too close to call between Betts/Goldschmidt/Machado
RE: I  
MartyNJ1969 : 6/14/2022 2:00 pm : link
In comment 15732414 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
don't understand "trending toward" means here. Ramirez has more RBI than Judge over the last 30 days, what is this "trend"? Ramirez 27, Judge 21


The trend is Judge is going to have way more at bats then Ramirez going forward with the 4th weakest schedule. He is going to get 5 to 6 at bats per game for at least 70 of the remaining games. Ramirez is not. The ore at bats gives judge the opportunity for more RBI's
RE: Yankees gambled and lost....  
Matt M. : 6/14/2022 2:04 pm : link
In comment 15732326 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
or at least they are losing big time. This may turn into a 10 year 400 million dollar contract if they want to keep him. Brutal job trying to lowball Judge.
I don't think they gambled and lost. I think they made a more than fair offer. Judge gambled on himself and, so far, he's won.
In any event, the numbers Judge is pacing to put up is staggering  
MartyNJ1969 : 6/14/2022 2:05 pm : link
Don't think I have seen this in my lifetime and I am 53.
RE: I  
Matt M. : 6/14/2022 2:06 pm : link
In comment 15732334 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
can't recommend "Rickey" by Howard Bryant any more highly for Yankee fans. I'm about 75% through the book and it's really a great read. I mentioned this the other day but Sandy Alderson didn't trust the A's scouting department so his asking price from the Yankees came via Baseball America's top 10 list lol. Also (and maybe this is well known by Yankee fans)

1. Steinbrenner didn't want Henderson, Billy Martin had to talk him into it

2. Mattingly to Texas was very close to happening
#1 I recall. #2 I don't remember ever hearing. What are the details around that?
RE: RE: Yankees gambled and lost....  
MartyNJ1969 : 6/14/2022 2:07 pm : link
In comment 15732423 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 15732326 Kmed6000 said:


Quote:


or at least they are losing big time. This may turn into a 10 year 400 million dollar contract if they want to keep him. Brutal job trying to lowball Judge.

I don't think they gambled and lost. I think they made a more than fair offer. Judge gambled on himself and, so far, he's won.


Judge deserves every penny what's coming to him. Just astounding what he is doing right now.
RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 6/14/2022 2:09 pm : link
In comment 15732425 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 15732334 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


can't recommend "Rickey" by Howard Bryant any more highly for Yankee fans. I'm about 75% through the book and it's really a great read. I mentioned this the other day but Sandy Alderson didn't trust the A's scouting department so his asking price from the Yankees came via Baseball America's top 10 list lol. Also (and maybe this is well known by Yankee fans)

1. Steinbrenner didn't want Henderson, Billy Martin had to talk him into it

2. Mattingly to Texas was very close to happening

#1 I recall. #2 I don't remember ever hearing. What are the details around that?


Per Bryant, Mattingly was fed up with Steinbrenner and said something suggesting that while The Boss paid him, it was like pulling teeth and he wasn't shown "respect" so Thrift was engaged in talks with Texas before they landed Palmeiro instead.
RE: RE: RE: Marty  
MartyNJ1969 : 6/14/2022 2:10 pm : link
In comment 15732413 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15732406 MartyNJ1969 said:


Quote:


In comment 15732319 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


the triple crown is a specific "stat". It's HR's, Batting average and RBI. Judge is having an incredible season, he is not on pace to win a triple crown. Arraez is hitting .362, Judge .318. Judge is 6th in the AL in BA, 2nd in RBI (Ramirez).



Dan, Project out the number of At bats Judge is going to have with this team vs those players you mentioned. He won't get the average but he will pass Alonzo and Ramirez in RBI's and hits.



0% snark, no idea what this means.

He's nowhere near a triple crown. Alonso has no impact on Judge winning triple crown, Arraez's 42 point advantage on average does.


I really don't think Arraez will keep up that average. He is going to cool off after all star break with that schedule he has to play.
RE: RE: I  
Section331 : 6/14/2022 2:10 pm : link
In comment 15732421 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
In comment 15732414 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


don't understand "trending toward" means here. Ramirez has more RBI than Judge over the last 30 days, what is this "trend"? Ramirez 27, Judge 21



The trend is Judge is going to have way more at bats then Ramirez going forward with the 4th weakest schedule. He is going to get 5 to 6 at bats per game for at least 70 of the remaining games. Ramirez is not. The ore at bats gives judge the opportunity for more RBI's


PA leaders typically average around 4.5 per game, and those are the leaders. How the hell is Judge going to average "5 or 6" AB's (or PA's)? You're just making up numbers.
RE: RE: RE: I  
MartyNJ1969 : 6/14/2022 2:13 pm : link
In comment 15732427 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15732425 Matt M. said:


Quote:


In comment 15732334 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


can't recommend "Rickey" by Howard Bryant any more highly for Yankee fans. I'm about 75% through the book and it's really a great read. I mentioned this the other day but Sandy Alderson didn't trust the A's scouting department so his asking price from the Yankees came via Baseball America's top 10 list lol. Also (and maybe this is well known by Yankee fans)

1. Steinbrenner didn't want Henderson, Billy Martin had to talk him into it

2. Mattingly to Texas was very close to happening

#1 I recall. #2 I don't remember ever hearing. What are the details around that?



Per Bryant, Mattingly was fed up with Steinbrenner and said something suggesting that while The Boss paid him, it was like pulling teeth and he wasn't shown "respect" so Thrift was engaged in talks with Texas before they landed Palmeiro instead.


The 1980's was a very frustrating decade for the yankees and mattingly. I still say moving Righetti to closer was a wrong move to this day. The pitching staff never recovered from having a true Ace.
RE: RE: RE: I  
MartyNJ1969 : 6/14/2022 2:17 pm : link
In comment 15732432 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15732421 MartyNJ1969 said:


Quote:


In comment 15732414 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


don't understand "trending toward" means here. Ramirez has more RBI than Judge over the last 30 days, what is this "trend"? Ramirez 27, Judge 21



The trend is Judge is going to have way more at bats then Ramirez going forward with the 4th weakest schedule. He is going to get 5 to 6 at bats per game for at least 70 of the remaining games. Ramirez is not. The ore at bats gives judge the opportunity for more RBI's



PA leaders typically average around 4.5 per game, and those are the leaders. How the hell is Judge going to average "5 or 6" AB's (or PA's)? You're just making up numbers.


Dan, The team is putting up double digit runs like nobody's business and the schedule overall is weak going forward. Judge is going to get to 5 at bats average over rest of season..this is what i see. There's the Yankees Lineup rotation and then there is everyone else.
Marty  
DanMetroMan : 6/14/2022 2:20 pm : link
all due respect, I think this has run it's course. I don't want anybody to get the impression I'm knocking Judge. He's been truly absurdly good and if the season ended today he'd likely be AL MVP.
The MLB Mattingly doc touched on Mattingly almost getting traded  
Greg from LI : 6/14/2022 2:30 pm : link
I don't think it mentioned Texas specifically but Donnie talked about having a standoff with Steinbrenner over "respect" and that Steinbrenner told him they were going to deal him.
RE: RE: And calling it a lowball offer is a joke.  
Kmed6000 : 6/14/2022 2:40 pm : link
In comment 15732402 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
In comment 15732393 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


It would have been the highest AAV contract for an Outfielder sans Mike Trout who is an all-time great and signed his deal at 27.



and he plays a great CF too. He might win a gold glove to boot.


Is it? is it a joke champ? It was a joke. They didn't even rip up his arbitration year, they were looking to tack on teh new deal after the arbitration year. It was a massive lowball. They were about $75 million apart and Judge knew his value. Say it with me....LOWBALL.
By the way,  
Kmed6000 : 6/14/2022 2:42 pm : link
I said it at the time too. The Yankees tried to play games and now they are going to pay for it. Either by losing a top 3 position player or paying him $100M more than what they would have if they were being fair.
RE: I  
Stu11 : 6/14/2022 2:46 pm : link
In comment 15732334 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
can't recommend "Rickey" by Howard Bryant any more highly for Yankee fans. I'm about 75% through the book and it's really a great read. I mentioned this the other day but Sandy Alderson didn't trust the A's scouting department so his asking price from the Yankees came via Baseball America's top 10 list lol. Also (and maybe this is well known by Yankee fans)

1. Steinbrenner didn't want Henderson, Billy Martin had to talk him into it

2. Mattingly to Texas was very close to happening

Michael Kay had the author on for a long interview last week. It does sound really interesting. Ricky definitely was a character.
It looks to me like they tried getting him to bite  
UConn4523 : 6/14/2022 2:46 pm : link
on a discount and it didn’t work. I also don’t think “splitting the difference” would have worked. Judge wanted his asking price and then bet on himself to get it. As long as he doesn’t get injured, he will get it (and then some).
I wonder if the Yankees  
Kmed6000 : 6/14/2022 2:47 pm : link
offered Judge what he was asking before the season, if he'd even accept at this point.
RE: I wonder if the Yankees  
RasputinPrime : 6/14/2022 2:55 pm : link
In comment 15732466 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
offered Judge what he was asking before the season, if he'd even accept at this point.


Judge is a leader and he is going to put it all in the middle. It's great to watch.
RE: Considering  
Victor in CT : 6/14/2022 3:02 pm : link
In comment 15732327 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
the way the game is played now (launch angle, strikeouts etc) Arraez is truly incredible. Career .322 hitter, more walks than strikeouts. The other guy who stands out is Tim Anderson. Since 2019 (335 games) he's hitting .326. You just don't see guys like that in today's game.


which to me is sad. nothing more boring then HR, K, BB except maybe NBA 3 pt. launching
RE: And calling it a lowball offer is a joke.  
djm : 6/14/2022 3:13 pm : link
In comment 15732393 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
It would have been the highest AAV contract for an Outfielder sans Mike Trout who is an all-time great and signed his deal at 27.


Fans gotta blame someone or bitch about something.

Meanwhile, in the real world, a good chunk of fans here and everywhere were questioning Judge's long term and even present potential and staying power. I remember laughing at threads...literally.

So now the Yanks blew it...that's rich.

He will be signed by the Yanks and then you can worry about the contract and bitch when Judge misses a month due to some typical injury that nearly every player endures.

Enjoy the season. Don't sweat the money.
RE: By the way,  
djm : 6/14/2022 3:16 pm : link
In comment 15732460 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
I said it at the time too. The Yankees tried to play games and now they are going to pay for it. Either by losing a top 3 position player or paying him $100M more than what they would have if they were being fair.


Really?
RE: RE: And calling it a lowball offer is a joke.  
Kmed6000 : 6/14/2022 3:19 pm : link
In comment 15732492 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15732393 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


It would have been the highest AAV contract for an Outfielder sans Mike Trout who is an all-time great and signed his deal at 27.



Fans gotta blame someone or bitch about something.

Meanwhile, in the real world, a good chunk of fans here and everywhere were questioning Judge's long term and even present potential and staying power. I remember laughing at threads...literally.

So now the Yanks blew it...that's rich.

He will be signed by the Yanks and then you can worry about the contract and bitch when Judge misses a month due to some typical injury that nearly every player endures.

Enjoy the season. Don't sweat the money.


Lol so because you were wrong(you usually are), that means I'm bitching? Judge was always a top 3 MLB position player and contracts are out of control. You don't draw the line with Judge pal.
Someones value will always be what someone  
Kmed6000 : 6/14/2022 3:21 pm : link
is willing to pay. If Judge was a FA going into this year, do you believe someone wouldn't have offered what Judge wanted? That's his value and the Yankees lowballed him. Not so much in AAV, but in years and by not ripping up his arbitration year. They gambled and they are losing.
RE: RE: I  
Mad Mike : 6/14/2022 3:27 pm : link
In comment 15732421 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
The trend is Judge is going to have way more at bats then Ramirez going forward with the 4th weakest schedule. He is going to get 5 to 6 at bats per game for at least 70 of the remaining games. Ramirez is not. The ore at bats gives judge the opportunity for more RBI's

Judge has averaged 3.84 ab's per game on the season. He has averaged 3.92 ab's per game in the past month. He has averaged 4 ab's per game in the past two weeks, and 4.17 in the past week. He has had 5 ab's or more 14 times in 60 games, 24% of the time. This notion of 5+ at bats in at least 70 remaining games, 69% of the remainder of the season, is wildly unrealistic.

Will he get more at-bats than Ramirez? Barring a Bonds-like run of being pitched around (or missed time), almost certainly. And yet... he already has more at-bats than Ramirez, and fewer rbi's. On pace is a fairly straightforward term, and Ramirez is on pace for more rbi's than Judge is, despite having fewer at-bats. Will that trend continue? Probably not. Judge averages more rbi's per at-bat over his career than Ramirez, and hits in a more potent lineup (though the Indians have an awfully good offense too). But Judge catching Ramirez in rbi's will depend on a change in the trend. As of now, Ramirez is trending for more rbi's than Judge.
Name the price and I'll bet  
Kmed6000 : 6/14/2022 3:29 pm : link
that Judge does NOT win the triple crown.
RE: RE: RE: And calling it a lowball offer is a joke.  
section125 : 6/14/2022 3:30 pm : link
In comment 15732457 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
In comment 15732402 MartyNJ1969 said:


Quote:


In comment 15732393 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


It would have been the highest AAV contract for an Outfielder sans Mike Trout who is an all-time great and signed his deal at 27.



and he plays a great CF too. He might win a gold glove to boot.



Is it? is it a joke champ? It was a joke. They didn't even rip up his arbitration year, they were looking to tack on teh new deal after the arbitration year. It was a massive lowball. They were about $75 million apart and Judge knew his value. Say it with me....LOWBALL.


No, it is you that should say, it was not a lowball offer. It wasn't. It was a very fair offer based on all aspects, including injury days. Problem is, they are both approaching stupid money. And you should not be going by total $$ anyway as Judge wants more years. They should not give him 10 years. 6 or 7, yes.
Over $31 mill per year is not a lowball offer.
section, I agree completely,  
Kmed6000 : 6/14/2022 3:32 pm : link
they should not have lowballed Judge. They should have ripped up his arbitration year and paid him $300M.
players hold a lot of cards still  
djm : 6/14/2022 3:35 pm : link

Judge bet on himself. In my opinion the only way he was gonna sign early was if the Yanks offered him a contract that fell in line with money for the best player in baseball. They would have had to pay him under the assumption that 2022 already happened.

Judge bet on himself. The Yanks and fans will reap the rewards with Judge putting together a legendary season. The Yanks will pay.

It's the Yankees. I think we can afford them some leeway when it comes to player and market evaluation. They rarely if ever let the wrong player walk or let a guy like Judge get away. Cano is the only one that comes to mind...and thanks to hindsight it looks like the Yanks knew what they were doing.

If the Yanks signed Judge early and he's on the 30 day DL people would be losing their minds around here.

I'll kill the Yanks if they lose Judge. Until then I think blaming them here is kind of ridiculous, especially since we don't even know what actually went down or what was offered.
RE: RE: RE: And calling it a lowball offer is a joke.  
djm : 6/14/2022 3:40 pm : link
In comment 15732500 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
In comment 15732492 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 15732393 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


It would have been the highest AAV contract for an Outfielder sans Mike Trout who is an all-time great and signed his deal at 27.



Fans gotta blame someone or bitch about something.

Meanwhile, in the real world, a good chunk of fans here and everywhere were questioning Judge's long term and even present potential and staying power. I remember laughing at threads...literally.

So now the Yanks blew it...that's rich.

He will be signed by the Yanks and then you can worry about the contract and bitch when Judge misses a month due to some typical injury that nearly every player endures.

Enjoy the season. Don't sweat the money.



Lol so because you were wrong(you usually are), that means I'm bitching? Judge was always a top 3 MLB position player and contracts are out of control. You don't draw the line with Judge pal.


What was I wrong about? Please enlighten me. And maybe remove the bug from your ass...i was merely disagreeing with you.

I said Judge was a great player that needed a long term contract while many here questioned that. Now I am wrong?

I also said the Stanton deal was a good one for the Yanks while EVERYONE here said otherwise. Who's wrong there? He's only one of the best right handed power hitters in the game and we aren't even paying his full salary here...

Clown.



Hold on let me rub some bleach on my skin to fix this rash...
by the way  
djm : 6/14/2022 3:43 pm : link
the "you can bitch about the contract" was not specifically aimed at you or anyone in particular that was directed at BBI in general.

Not that it matters you can unleash hell and win this debate. Blame Cashman blame the Yanks. Feel better.
Wow,  
Kmed6000 : 6/14/2022 3:50 pm : link
you're just a mean person. Very hurtful.
BTW,  
Kmed6000 : 6/14/2022 3:53 pm : link
you are wrong with everything regarding contracts. You always have been. You hate the money aspect of sports and downplay the importance of it. That is all.
RE: BTW,  
djm : 6/14/2022 3:57 pm : link
In comment 15732531 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
you are wrong with everything regarding contracts. You always have been. You hate the money aspect of sports and downplay the importance of it. That is all.


I don't downplay it as much as I don't obsess over it or insist that there isn't nuance to the discussion.

I never said this Judge contract would be easy but I did say right here last year that Judge should get a monster long term deal. I just don't profess to know the details of any negotiation process or blast the team when they don't sign the guy to an early bargain type deal.

I always admit or cop to being wrong.

Was only kidding about the bleach shit, but it is dangerous to apply to the skin. Wasn't personal.

Its not really obsessing  
Kmed6000 : 6/14/2022 3:58 pm : link
as it is a major part of professional sports and you've never been able to acknowledge that.
If you truly think  
djm : 6/14/2022 3:59 pm : link
the Yanks low balled Judge or offered him a deal that wouldn't pay him ELITE money I guess we just agree to disagree. Yanks aren't dumb. They aren't going to insult a home grown stud like Judge.

Judge bet on himself and it looks like he's going to win that bet. No one has to be blamed here is all I am saying.

Just win the fucking WS and I don't care.
Yes, we will have to agree to disagree.  
Kmed6000 : 6/14/2022 4:01 pm : link
I would once again like to point out that this isn't monday morning QB'ing. I said it at the time. The biggest issue was not ripping up Judge's arbitration year(18M) and starting the 7 year extension after that. Maybe lowball isn't the best word(even though I believe it), but they tried getting judge on a hometown discount and it didn't work.
RE: Its not really obsessing  
djm : 6/14/2022 4:06 pm : link
In comment 15732540 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
as it is a major part of professional sports and you've never been able to acknowledge that.


Ok believe what you want. There's a difference between thinking the NFL cap can be manipulated or worked around or that teams can cheat the cap at times and thinking it doesn't exist.

This is why internet debates suck. Allow for some nuance...!
RE: Yes, we will have to agree to disagree.  
djm : 6/14/2022 4:07 pm : link
In comment 15732547 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
I would once again like to point out that this isn't monday morning QB'ing. I said it at the time. The biggest issue was not ripping up Judge's arbitration year(18M) and starting the 7 year extension after that. Maybe lowball isn't the best word(even though I believe it), but they tried getting judge on a hometown discount and it didn't work.


fair enough.

Right now  
k2tampa : 6/14/2022 4:14 pm : link
Daniel Jones is on pace to lead the league in TD passes, yards passing, and most handoffs. Man, the Giants should have exercised his fifth year option. See how silly you sound.

But a couple of points:

First, your initial premise is wrong. Cabrera beats him in two of the three categories you listed because your math is wrong. The Yankees have played 60 games, so multiply everything by 2.7 to project it to 162 games. His 24 HRs projects to 64.8, not 68. His 48 RBIs projects to 129.6 not 148 (9 or 10 fewer than Cabrera). And his 71 hits projects to 191.7 (13 or 14 fewer than Cabrera). He is also on pace to strike out 172.8 times, which would be his second highest number.

Also, please explain how Judge's numbers project to "well above" a .320 batting average when he's hitting .318 right now? His numbers project to exactly .318.

Judge won't play every game the rest of the year. I'll bet the house he gets more than 5.4 games off the rest of the way (2 times 2.7).

Hitters' numbers usually drop in the dog days of the season as the heat and grind take it's toll. Bonds had 17 home runs in May. 11 in June. 6 in July. 12 in August. And 12 in September. Add in that the Yankees have 40 games left against the Rays, Blue Jay, Astros and Mets, 13 against the Red Sox, who have rebounded, and three against the Guardians. Those teams are 2 through 6 in AL in pitching and the Mets are 6th in the NL.




Kmed  
djm : 6/14/2022 4:18 pm : link
if it sounded like i zeroed in on you it wasn't my intention but looking back at my first few posts it may have come off that way. Was more a general retort but if it came off worse my apologies.
Judge will win the "Triple Crown"  
Semipro Lineman : 6/14/2022 4:21 pm : link
this season

RE: Right now  
Mad Mike : 6/14/2022 4:27 pm : link
In comment 15732556 k2tampa said:
Quote:
Also, please explain how Judge's numbers project to "well above" a .320 batting average when he's hitting .318 right now? His numbers project to exactly .318.

The concepts of pace and trend have taken a beating in this thread.
What is really going to make folks  
cjd2404 : 6/14/2022 4:30 pm : link
go crazy is when Cohen pays Judge everything he wants and more, then Walker asks some crazy amount to give up #99.

After all these years suffering under the Mets old ownership, it's nice to know we have an owner that could actually make this happen.
RE: Kmed  
Kmed6000 : 6/14/2022 4:33 pm : link
In comment 15732564 djm said:
Quote:
if it sounded like i zeroed in on you it wasn't my intention but looking back at my first few posts it may have come off that way. Was more a general retort but if it came off worse my apologies.


I appreciate that djm, but not necessary. We can rib each other and not take it personally. All good my friend.
I don't think Judge goes to the Mets.  
Kmed6000 : 6/14/2022 4:35 pm : link
I think there will be multiple teams willing to give Judge a crazy contract and I don't see Judge as the kind of guy that wants have the city hating him. If he goes to SF, he won't be the target of hatred because he will be in another world(NL, plus west coast).

I think it will be Yankees vs some west coast team(s) for Judge.
RE: By the way,  
Matt M. : 6/14/2022 4:41 pm : link
In comment 15732460 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
I said it at the time too. The Yankees tried to play games and now they are going to pay for it. Either by losing a top 3 position player or paying him $100M more than what they would have if they were being fair.
How were they not being fair? They offered him over $30M per year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I  
Matt M. : 6/14/2022 4:44 pm : link
In comment 15732434 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
In comment 15732427 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 15732425 Matt M. said:


Quote:


In comment 15732334 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


can't recommend "Rickey" by Howard Bryant any more highly for Yankee fans. I'm about 75% through the book and it's really a great read. I mentioned this the other day but Sandy Alderson didn't trust the A's scouting department so his asking price from the Yankees came via Baseball America's top 10 list lol. Also (and maybe this is well known by Yankee fans)

1. Steinbrenner didn't want Henderson, Billy Martin had to talk him into it

2. Mattingly to Texas was very close to happening

#1 I recall. #2 I don't remember ever hearing. What are the details around that?



Per Bryant, Mattingly was fed up with Steinbrenner and said something suggesting that while The Boss paid him, it was like pulling teeth and he wasn't shown "respect" so Thrift was engaged in talks with Texas before they landed Palmeiro instead.



The 1980's was a very frustrating decade for the yankees and mattingly. I still say moving Righetti to closer was a wrong move to this day. The pitching staff never recovered from having a true Ace.
100%. While Righetti was a very good closer, he was a better starter. Guidry was on his last legs and hurt. Righetti was the legit ace. You don't just move an ace to the bullpen unless he's hurt, like the Braves did with Smoltz. There was no reason to make that move and it is one they didn't recover from for about a decade because they were forever in pursuit of top of the rotation pitchers.
There is no denying Judge is having an absolute monster year  
Matt M. : 6/14/2022 4:50 pm : link
That said, I don't think the Yankees were wrong for not wanting to go more than 7 years. It will look like he deserves every penny of a monster deal for a while. But, the latter half of a 10 year deal is likely to look like an albatross. The Yankees offer was fair. They offered over $30M per for 7 seasons. He wanted way more in terms of $ and years. Given his injury history, the Yankees were correct not to jump at his counter.

Now, his bet on himself looks great...if he stays healthy. One nagging injury that last more than a few days and this narrative shifts. Don't forget, he will turn 31 next year. A contract taking him into his 40s is not wise, in my opinion.
RE: RE: RE: I  
Matt M. : 6/14/2022 4:51 pm : link
In comment 15732427 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15732425 Matt M. said:


Quote:


In comment 15732334 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


can't recommend "Rickey" by Howard Bryant any more highly for Yankee fans. I'm about 75% through the book and it's really a great read. I mentioned this the other day but Sandy Alderson didn't trust the A's scouting department so his asking price from the Yankees came via Baseball America's top 10 list lol. Also (and maybe this is well known by Yankee fans)

1. Steinbrenner didn't want Henderson, Billy Martin had to talk him into it

2. Mattingly to Texas was very close to happening

#1 I recall. #2 I don't remember ever hearing. What are the details around that?



Per Bryant, Mattingly was fed up with Steinbrenner and said something suggesting that while The Boss paid him, it was like pulling teeth and he wasn't shown "respect" so Thrift was engaged in talks with Texas before they landed Palmeiro instead.
I do recall him unhappiness with Steinbrenner and how the team was run. I do not seem to recall the potential trade.
RE: The MLB Mattingly doc touched on Mattingly almost getting traded  
Matt M. : 6/14/2022 4:59 pm : link
In comment 15732446 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I don't think it mentioned Texas specifically but Donnie talked about having a standoff with Steinbrenner over "respect" and that Steinbrenner told him they were going to deal him.
Unfortunately, I don't think I have access to that programming, which is why I haven't yet watched it. I would like very much to watch it.
RE: I don't think Judge goes to the Mets.  
81_Great_Dane : 6/14/2022 6:14 pm : link
In comment 15732575 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
I think there will be multiple teams willing to give Judge a crazy contract and I don't see Judge as the kind of guy that wants have the city hating him. If he goes to SF, he won't be the target of hatred because he will be in another world(NL, plus west coast).

I think it will be Yankees vs some west coast team(s) for Judge.
Why would New York City hate him if he signs with a New York team?

Yankee fans will hate him. Mets fans will love him. Yankees-Mets would become more of a rivalry, maybe. Maybe.

Judge to the Mets seems unlikely to me but it's possible. The Mets' owner has the deep pockets for once. Depends on how much Judge likes NYC and his relationship with the Yankees. If he wants to stay in NYC, the Yankees make more sense. Unless the Mets throw crazy money at him.
First off, you're saying win 'a' Triple Crown make up of home runs,  
Ira : 6/14/2022 6:55 pm : link
hits and rbi's. The Triple Crown involves batting average and not hits. Judge is not on a pace to win the batting title.

Second, I don't think the Yankees were wrong to limit the years on their offer given Judge's age. Also, he's only been healthy for most of the season twice in his 6 year mlb career before now.
I'm no baseball whiz...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/14/2022 7:00 pm : link
But doesn't the Triple Crown also count batting average?
10 year deal  
k2tampa : 6/14/2022 7:36 pm : link
At age 30? Two words. Robinson Cano.
If the Yankees  
JoeyBigBlue : 6/14/2022 7:52 pm : link
I’m don’t care about the annual salary, but I’m not going past 7 years. It’s it’s 7 years @ 45 mill per year, so be it. But there’s no way I’m handing him a 10 year contract.
RE: RE: The MLB Mattingly doc touched on Mattingly almost getting traded  
Matt M. : 6/15/2022 12:54 am : link
In comment 15732598 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 15732446 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


I don't think it mentioned Texas specifically but Donnie talked about having a standoff with Steinbrenner over "respect" and that Steinbrenner told him they were going to deal him.

Unfortunately, I don't think I have access to that programming, which is why I haven't yet watched it. I would like very much to watch it.
I just finished watching it and loved every single second. Watching it, I did remember the battles in the papers with Steinbrenner and the rumors. The Mattingly for Clark rumor pissed me off. I couldn't understand how anyone could say a bad word about Mattingly.

The thing that killed me was near the end when it is pointed out that it has been more than 25 years since he last swung a bat for the Yankees. Holy cow! How is that possible? I swear I remember 1995 like yesterday. I miss Don Mattingly.
RE: 10 year deal  
Kmed6000 : 6/15/2022 11:22 am : link
In comment 15732712 k2tampa said:
Quote:
At age 30? Two words. Robinson Cano.


Robinson Cano isn't in the same league as Judge. One guy is a perfect MLB specimen. If you were building a player on MLB the Show, you are building Judge. I understand 10 years is extremely risky and usually doesn't work out, but thats probably what it will take.
RE: RE: I don't think Judge goes to the Mets.  
Kmed6000 : 6/15/2022 11:23 am : link
In comment 15732650 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
In comment 15732575 Kmed6000 said:


Quote:


I think there will be multiple teams willing to give Judge a crazy contract and I don't see Judge as the kind of guy that wants have the city hating him. If he goes to SF, he won't be the target of hatred because he will be in another world(NL, plus west coast).

I think it will be Yankees vs some west coast team(s) for Judge.

Why would New York City hate him if he signs with a New York team?

Yankee fans will hate him. Mets fans will love him. Yankees-Mets would become more of a rivalry, maybe. Maybe.

Judge to the Mets seems unlikely to me but it's possible. The Mets' owner has the deep pockets for once. Depends on how much Judge likes NYC and his relationship with the Yankees. If he wants to stay in NYC, the Yankees make more sense. Unless the Mets throw crazy money at him.


It was a typo. Should say...half the city will hate him.
if Judge goes to the Mets  
djm : 6/15/2022 11:33 am : link
it might incite a 10 year riot in this area. I'd lead the charge.
RE: RE: 10 year deal  
k2tampa : 6/15/2022 11:12 pm : link
In comment 15733081 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
In comment 15732712 k2tampa said:


Quote:


At age 30? Two words. Robinson Cano.



Robinson Cano isn't in the same league as Judge. One guy is a perfect MLB specimen. If you were building a player on MLB the Show, you are building Judge. I understand 10 years is extremely risky and usually doesn't work out, but thats probably what it will take.


Do you think Judge is going to be worth $30-plus million at 40? 39? 38? Do you think his body, at his size, will hold up? I don't. I've seen enough Yankee teams have no chance because they were filled with aging players. Stanton has seven more years. Imagine how much the Yankees will have tied up in those two when Judge is 37 and Stanton is 39. Then add in the $36 million for a 38 year old Cole the same year.
RE: RE: RE: 10 year deal  
The Dude : 6/15/2022 11:43 pm : link
In comment 15733617 k2tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 15733081 Kmed6000 said:


Quote:


In comment 15732712 k2tampa said:


Quote:


At age 30? Two words. Robinson Cano.



Robinson Cano isn't in the same league as Judge. One guy is a perfect MLB specimen. If you were building a player on MLB the Show, you are building Judge. I understand 10 years is extremely risky and usually doesn't work out, but thats probably what it will take.



Do you think Judge is going to be worth $30-plus million at 40? 39? 38? Do you think his body, at his size, will hold up? I don't. I've seen enough Yankee teams have no chance because they were filled with aging players. Stanton has seven more years. Imagine how much the Yankees will have tied up in those two when Judge is 37 and Stanton is 39. Then add in the $36 million for a 38 year old Cole the same year.


I doubt you'll find someone that believes he'll still be mashing and play every night at 37.....I understand what you're saying, but not necessarily the point you're making....of course they'll be paying old guys. that's the nature of the beast that is MLB superstars.

This is baseball. You're paying to have them in their "prime" and swallowing that they're paid through the end of their career basically. It's how this works. If NY doesnt SF or NYM will.
RE: RE: RE: RE: 10 year deal  
Matt M. : 6/16/2022 2:19 pm : link
In comment 15733623 The Dude said:
Quote:
In comment 15733617 k2tampa said:


Quote:


In comment 15733081 Kmed6000 said:


Quote:


In comment 15732712 k2tampa said:


Quote:


At age 30? Two words. Robinson Cano.



Robinson Cano isn't in the same league as Judge. One guy is a perfect MLB specimen. If you were building a player on MLB the Show, you are building Judge. I understand 10 years is extremely risky and usually doesn't work out, but thats probably what it will take.



Do you think Judge is going to be worth $30-plus million at 40? 39? 38? Do you think his body, at his size, will hold up? I don't. I've seen enough Yankee teams have no chance because they were filled with aging players. Stanton has seven more years. Imagine how much the Yankees will have tied up in those two when Judge is 37 and Stanton is 39. Then add in the $36 million for a 38 year old Cole the same year.



I doubt you'll find someone that believes he'll still be mashing and play every night at 37.....I understand what you're saying, but not necessarily the point you're making....of course they'll be paying old guys. that's the nature of the beast that is MLB superstars.

This is baseball. You're paying to have them in their "prime" and swallowing that they're paid through the end of their career basically. It's how this works. If NY doesnt SF or NYM will.
Factor in the universal DH rule now and it expands the market for these types of players. A NL team doesn't have to worry about what to do with him if he can't play the OF later in his career.
RE: if Judge goes to the Mets  
Matt M. : 6/16/2022 2:20 pm : link
In comment 15733100 djm said:
Quote:
it might incite a 10 year riot in this area. I'd lead the charge.
To me, it doesn't matter. It's a loss if he isn't a Yankee. Unless it is a division rival, there's no difference to me if it's the Mets or Dodgers or whoever else.
RE: RE: RE: 10 year deal  
Kmed6000 : 6/16/2022 3:49 pm : link
In comment 15733617 k2tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 15733081 Kmed6000 said:


Quote:


In comment 15732712 k2tampa said:


Quote:


At age 30? Two words. Robinson Cano.



Robinson Cano isn't in the same league as Judge. One guy is a perfect MLB specimen. If you were building a player on MLB the Show, you are building Judge. I understand 10 years is extremely risky and usually doesn't work out, but thats probably what it will take.



Do you think Judge is going to be worth $30-plus million at 40? 39? 38? Do you think his body, at his size, will hold up? I don't. I've seen enough Yankee teams have no chance because they were filled with aging players. Stanton has seven more years. Imagine how much the Yankees will have tied up in those two when Judge is 37 and Stanton is 39. Then add in the $36 million for a 38 year old Cole the same year.


Where did this train of thought come from that with his body and size, he won't hold up. Please show me examples of this being true. He's not an NFL player and he's built unlike anyone else I've seen in MLB. Why are people so convinced that his size will be a detriment to him playing late into his 30's?
Also,  
Kmed6000 : 6/16/2022 3:50 pm : link
I'm not passing on signing Judge because you have Stanton tied up long term. That's a terrible strategy.
Last point...  
Kmed6000 : 6/16/2022 3:52 pm : link
30M/40M now is not what it will be 7/8 years from now. Inflation is at like 30% lol. There will atleast be another 2 years of outrageous inflation. 30M will be a bargain in 2030 lol
People talk about his size all the time  
Greg from LI : 6/16/2022 3:54 pm : link
About how guys that big don't last, but there is almost no one ever who was his size. There have been 6'7" position players, but almost all of them were built much differently. The closest in size to Judge I've ever heard of was Hondo Howard, who was 6'7" 260. He played in a league with no DH, rarely missed games, and had his best seasons in his 30s, retiring at 36.

I honestly didn't realize how good Frank Howard was from 1967-71. He put up some monster seasons.
Exactly.  
Kmed6000 : 6/16/2022 4:07 pm : link
I can't recall anyone that was built like Judge. Richie Sexson and Adam Dunn were tall, but not built like Judge and I don't remember their bodies failing them, I just remember them not being good enough. Maybe Frank Thomas, but even Thomas wasn't built like Judge and Thomas was playing full seasons into his late 30's.

Please show me examples of how big guys break down more and let me know if any of them were built like Judge.
RE: People talk about his size all the time  
DanMetroMan : 6/16/2022 4:11 pm : link
In comment 15734020 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
About how guys that big don't last, but there is almost no one ever who was his size. There have been 6'7" position players, but almost all of them were built much differently. The closest in size to Judge I've ever heard of was Hondo Howard, who was 6'7" 260. He played in a league with no DH, rarely missed games, and had his best seasons in his 30s, retiring at 36.

I honestly didn't realize how good Frank Howard was from 1967-71. He put up some monster seasons.


Met Frank Howard in the mid-90's when he was a Mets coach and he was absolutely MASSIVE, tall, broad shoulders, the whole 9
Frank Thomas was a big built dude  
Greg from LI : 6/16/2022 4:19 pm : link
Yet 2 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter than Judge.

Judge is basically the same size as Julius Peppers. Same height and maybe 10 pounds lighter.
RE: Frank Thomas was a big built dude  
Kmed6000 : 6/16/2022 4:21 pm : link
In comment 15734047 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Yet 2 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter than Judge.

Judge is basically the same size as Julius Peppers. Same height and maybe 10 pounds lighter.


Thats insane to think about because Frank Thomas was massive lol
Frank Thomas was listed  
Kmed6000 : 6/16/2022 4:25 pm : link
as 6'5" and 275.

Judge is listed at 6'7" and 282. Don't know how accurate that is, but I don't think Judge is 40 lbs heavier. I would however think that Judge's BMI is way lower.
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