Maybe skewed more to the passing stats.
Tiki Barber had 2095 all purpose yds, 15 TDs 1518 rushing and 578 in the air
Let's say Saquon has 1,200 passing tds and 800 rushing yds with 12 Tds.
And that he stays on the field for the whole season(for arguments sake).
Does he become worthy of a big contract if he's more of a passing threat than a running threat and has pro bowl numbers like Tiki in 2004 and 2005 (which by the way exceed Golladays pro-bowl numbers in 2019... 1190yds/11Tds)?
Certainly sounds like he is going to be used more like he was in college with regards to getting him in space and out from behind the qb more often. This i like.
Fingers crossed we have this 'dilema' at the end of the year.
Why not just scout and draft another RB that fits that type of scheme if it's what you want to run? He would be younger, presumably last longer and be paid a lot less...
Even if he rushes for 1200 and catches 800 yards, I still don’t think he’s worth a mega-deal. Not at the RB position. You can get similar production for a much lesser cost and spend your money elsewhere to have a better shot at sustained success.
If he stays healthy then yes, he should be able to get 2k total yds
No, it wasn't
No. I don't think there's a scenario where paying Barkley makes sense. Look around the league - who's happy to be paying a running back big money? Nobody. If he had a big year and sometime else is dumb enough to pay him, fine.
And personally I don't think Barkley is anywhere close to Tiki as a player. Not close at all.
Is there an example of a big second contract to a RB that worked out? I doubt the cowboys are happy with Zeke at a 16 mil cap hit this year. I know I wouldn't want to be committed to giving Kamara 40 million over the next 3 years. Even if you look at a true receiving threat in CMC is going to be an albatross contract in the next few years as he's owed nearly 50 million over the next 3 years, and can't stay healthy.
Saquon has been injured, including very major injuries, and has been a top 6 cap hit at his position for every year. To give him even more money, and extend him into his late 20s (he'll be 26 this time next year) just doesn't make sense in almost any situation.
The absolute best case scenario for Saquon is to be able to move him sometime between now and the trade deadline for a 3rd rounder and change, or a maybe a 2nd rounder if we are truly lucky.
But just as a RB? Regardless of his numbers, no way.
Saquons Rookie year was not better than Tiki's 2004-2005 years
Saquon 1,307 Rushing, 721 Rec, Total 2028 yards, Total TDs 15
2004 Tiki 1,518 Rushing, 578 Rec, Total 2096, Total TDs 15 TDs
2005 Tiki 1,860 Rushing, 530 Rec, Total 2,390, Total TDs 11
Tiki could also block and lost a lot of TDs to Brandon Jacobs near the goal line. Jacobs only ran for 99 yards total in 2005 and scored 7 TDs and ran for 423 yards in 2006 and scored 9 TDs. Wayne Gallman only had 1 TD in 2018 with Saquon.
To the original post, If he puts up his rookie numbers again he will earn a 2nd contract here. He is the face of the franchise and is a good kid. If he remains healthy he will dominate in this O because he will be out in space. Running between the tackles on a regular basis he is an average player. If you look at the Coughlin effect on Tiki and the increase in productivity I am hoping for a similar outlook for Saquon. Saquons rookie year was with Shurmur, the last 2 years with Garrett everyone underperformed. You can hear the O players mentioning it. Its going to be a different wide open O that puts up big numbers.
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Does he become worthy of a big contract if he's more of a passing threat than a running threat and has pro bowl numbers like Tiki in 2004 and 2005 (which by the way exceed Golladays pro-bowl numbers in 2019... 1190yds/11Tds)?
No. I don't think there's a scenario where paying Barkley makes sense. Look around the league - who's happy to be paying a running back big money? Nobody. If he had a big year and sometime else is dumb enough to pay him, fine.
And personally I don't think Barkley is anywhere close to Tiki as a player. Not close at all.
"Not close at all"... you have to stop hating so hard on players on the team you "love".... After Tiki Barber's first 4/5 years in the NFL, by your own logic, you would argue against paying him but looking back at Tiki's career, he is exactly the type of RB that would have 10000000% warranted a 2nd contract because he did most of his damage on the back 9 of his career, Barkley could very well do the same. If he has a big, big year as he is absolutely capable of then I would hope NYG does what's right and locks him up for the next 4 to 5 years... not close to Tiki as a player at all... lol come on, now your being ridiculous, Saquon is the best/most talented RB we have had since Tiki and his skill set is absolutely comparable, did you forget Saquon had 2000 yards in his first season?
Even still, I do expect him to put more than 800 yards on a 17 game season. And I also think you are vastly overrating him as a receiver. There is no way he comes close to sniffing 1200 yards. Maybe 800, depending on how the offense is constructed.
Reading these all or nothing posts is mind numbing.
They have little to do with the player he is today and what he will be over his next contract period.
Here’s the problem: Barkley isn’t that player, and probably never will be. He lacks the vision or - despite the extra thirty pounds of muscle - the toughness. He can’t block and (with obvious caveats about the terrible line) doesn’t move the chains. Granted, nobody anticipated Barber becoming that player either, when he was Barkley’s age. But that’s because it’s so rare for a RB to elevate his game so far into his career. There’s little reason to think Barkley will be the next Tiki / Faulk.
One important edge Barkley has over mid-career Tiki: ball security. So, if Saquon approaches Tiki’s 2005 level in his many areas of deficiency, he will be a nearly perfect player, and well worth retaining. Also, if Barkley has to carry Jones the way Tiki carried Eli for most of three years, the team will move on from DJ to Taylor and a rookie, making the new, improved, imaginary Barkley more affordable.
I really believe this is a case of recency bias.
Why not just scout and draft another RB that fits that type of scheme if it's what you want to run? He would be younger, presumably last longer and be paid a lot less...
ARe we sure about that? If Barkley shows he's healthy and dangerous this season, he would be entering his 2nd contract 2 years removed from that injury and (theoretically) coming off a big season. How many career touches? LEt's be fair and give him 350 touches in 2022 which is a lot, but for the sake of debate why not...
Barkley would be at around 900 rushes (giving him 260 or so in 22) and about 350 receiving targets.
Again, HUGE if that he rumbles fully healthy all year but if he did, are we sure Barkley would be entering a diminishing returns phase of his career? I'm not, but only if he has a big healthy 2022.
It's not like the guy would be rounding into 2000 touches.
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Does he become worthy of a big contract if he's more of a passing threat than a running threat and has pro bowl numbers like Tiki in 2004 and 2005 (which by the way exceed Golladays pro-bowl numbers in 2019... 1190yds/11Tds)?
No. I don't think there's a scenario where paying Barkley makes sense. Look around the league - who's happy to be paying a running back big money? Nobody. If he had a big year and sometime else is dumb enough to pay him, fine.
And personally I don't think Barkley is anywhere close to Tiki as a player. Not close at all.
"Not close at all"... you have to stop hating so hard on players on the team you "love".... After Tiki Barber's first 4/5 years in the NFL, by your own logic, you would argue against paying him but looking back at Tiki's career, he is exactly the type of RB that would have 10000000% warranted a 2nd contract because he did most of his damage on the back 9 of his career, Barkley could very well do the same. If he has a big, big year as he is absolutely capable of then I would hope NYG does what's right and locks him up for the next 4 to 5 years... not close to Tiki as a player at all... lol come on, now your being ridiculous, Saquon is the best/most talented RB we have had since Tiki and his skill set is absolutely comparable, did you forget Saquon had 2000 yards in his first season?
Did you forget the offense sucked anyway that year?
It took almost 400 plays to get Barkley those 2000 yards. And a big portion of that was 6 yard check downs on 3rd and 9.
Running an offense through the running back is inefficient. Paying running backs is inefficient. Paying running backs with injury histories is worse than inefficient; it's foolish.
Schoen had publicly indicates his awareness of positional value in the modern NFL. Even if Barkley is converted full time to a slot receiver (seems unlikely with Toney, Shepard, Robinson, and James on the roster) it still won't make sense to pay him: slot receiver isn't a premium position.
There just aren't realistic avenues to Barkley being paid here.
Injuries will occur on Superbowl contending rosters. I'm hoping for a big first half from Barkley to be able to then trade him to a contender who will need a RB.
Not sure about comparing him to Tiki. He has not been on anything close to a winning team here which is the most important metric.
I hope he has a monster season because it helps the team win and I would like to see him succeed because he seems like a good guy. But there is no scenario I would entertain than ends in giving him a huge contract based on his rookie season and current season and ignores the three years in-between which were all huge disappointments.
As mentioned above, what team has ever signed a RB to a huge contract and the deal aged well for them? Asked another way, if Barkley has a poor year and he moves on, what RB would you hope hits the free agent market that you would love to see the Giants offer a huge contract?
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Does he become worthy of a big contract if he's more of a passing threat than a running threat and has pro bowl numbers like Tiki in 2004 and 2005 (which by the way exceed Golladays pro-bowl numbers in 2019... 1190yds/11Tds)?
No. I don't think there's a scenario where paying Barkley makes sense. Look around the league - who's happy to be paying a running back big money? Nobody. If he had a big year and sometime else is dumb enough to pay him, fine.
And personally I don't think Barkley is anywhere close to Tiki as a player. Not close at all.
"Not close at all"... you have to stop hating so hard on players on the team you "love".... After Tiki Barber's first 4/5 years in the NFL, by your own logic, you would argue against paying him but looking back at Tiki's career, he is exactly the type of RB that would have 10000000% warranted a 2nd contract because he did most of his damage on the back 9 of his career, Barkley could very well do the same. If he has a big, big year as he is absolutely capable of then I would hope NYG does what's right and locks him up for the next 4 to 5 years... not close to Tiki as a player at all... lol come on, now your being ridiculous, Saquon is the best/most talented RB we have had since Tiki and his skill set is absolutely comparable, did you forget Saquon had 2000 yards in his first
season?
That s actually a good pt about Tiki that I had not considered. It gives one pause for reflection where a second contract for Saquon is concerned should he have a really good season
After he left in 2007 Giants 135/game. 4.6 aver. In 2008 they led the league at 159 yards/game.
Giants should focus on building the OL where just solid backs can succeed.
I agree with those saying do not entertain signing SB to a long term contract. Based on how he does and where the cap is I'd consider the tag.
SB was drafted to carry the load his first contract. That time has passed imv.
Reading these all or nothing posts is mind numbing.
Barkley was very good in 2018. He was also very bad in 2019, 2020 and 2021, mostly due to injuries and a clear difference in how he runs.
I think too many people on this site are picking one or the other to project 2022 when the actual will probably be somewhere in between (assuming he stays healthy which is a huge assumption).
To the OP's question, I don't know why you would ever consider offering a RB with one huge year, 3 disappointing years, and one bounce back year a huge contract in free agency. If he was not already a Giant nobody would even consider signing him to that. You can't overvalue your own players based on "he's a great guy!"
If Wan Dale Robinson put up those kind of numbers with a combination skewed to the pass - most of you guys would be all for a second contract.
I don't know if Saquon will last through the season -- but if he has more passes caught than runs he is really a hybrid and nod not really a RB - as a hybrid WR he may be a different animal -- but one would think that as a hybrid WR he would be worth a second contract if he puts up pro-bowl numbers comparable to Tiki Barber
And how many of those ended with him gingerly stepping out of bounds short of the marker?
I want to see him start playing with some heart this year. Watching him try and avoid contact on every touch (and every pass pro) is frustrating as hell.
I think the worst thing that could happen is they give him the 6yr/$90m Zeke Elliot type deal.
Don't think of Barkley as a workhorse, or short yardage or receiving back although he does all well and probably better than 98% of the backs in the league. He was most valuable as your "1st and 10 back who can break an 80 yard TD with any touch" back.
Allen of course would have been another good option, especially since Eli was done. Thinking that we could still compete with Eli at that point was a huge mistake by the FO, but Nelson would have helped him a lot more than SB. The Giants instead drafted Lauletta, who had no chance of succeeding Eli, and did so a year after drafting Webb.
Allen of course would have been another good option, especially since Eli was done. Thinking that we could still compete with Eli at that point was a huge mistake by the FO, but Nelson would have helped him a lot more than SB. The Giants instead drafted Lauletta, who had no chance of succeeding Eli, and did so a year after drafting Webb.
How many years have gone by now since Eli was benched? And what is the most amount of games the Giants have won in a single season since his benching? And how many of these years when they should moved on from him did he only put up garbage stats like 11 TDs a season?
I wonder how many more years will go by before people realize "maybe Eli was not the problem with this team".