I think it’s getting worse. The action scenes are so boring and clumsy. Story is not compelling. No humor. I think it’s really bad. Huge miss by Filoni.
By that I mean new characters with no history. But, the story they have steps all over the toes of A New Hope. The acting is also in line with most Star Wars films...bad, outside of Ewan McGregor.
This is also the first of their TV projects that looks like a TV project. For example, when the 2 speeders attacked the base to save them, it looked terrible. You could tell they were models, which is unheard of for Star Wars. It's not just that it's on the small screen. It's that it is a small screen production, if that makes sense.
In the rescue, the speeders looked bad. A lot of the "gritty" gets lost in a production that is heavily cgi, or enhanced backgrounds after. Boba Fett looked awful many times on tattoine because it looked too shiny, too colorful on sand covered planet.
I enjoyed the latest episode though the battle portions were not done well. An Obi Wan vs Vader showdown will be nice.
You know that the main characters all survive because in about 10yrs they will all be in A New Hope. So any of the (poorly written-IMO) scenes that depict a threat to Leia or Ben, even Vader are ho hum since you know that nothing is really going to happen to them. As for the new characters who can die, ok but we have only known them for about 10mins.
Also the PG, sanitized violence of the show takes away any sizzle. I know it's Disney but they won't even show half the grit of say the Mandalorian. For me the young Leia (baby Leia) character is a mistake, insufferable and a play to the younger viewer.
Leia’s storyline should have been finished episodes ago. They keep dragging it out. Should have probably never brought her into it in the first place. Could have gotten Obi Wan into the fold by imprisoning maybe one of his old war buddies (Quinlan Vos?). I think it is just poorly written and hopefully spells the end of Kathleen Kennedy
You know that the main characters all survive because in about 10yrs they will all be in A New Hope. So any of the (poorly written-IMO) scenes that depict a threat to Leia or Ben, even Vader are ho hum since you know that nothing is really going to happen to them. As for the new characters who can die, ok but we have only known them for about 10mins.
Also the PG, sanitized violence of the show takes away any sizzle. I know it's Disney but they won't even show half the grit of say the Mandalorian. For me the young Leia (baby Leia) character is a mistake, insufferable and a play to the younger viewer.
Young female viewer. It's a continued mistake. They aren't gaining much of a new generation because the new characters and stories they introduce suck. In doing so, they are losing some long time fans.
if it didn't directly spit in the face of A New Hope. It's like they brought Leia into it for fan service but didn't realize how much the fans would hate it.
I don't mind an arc where Ben Kenobi starts broken and then finds peace and his ways again - transformation from broken war loser to wise old sage we see in ANH. But this was just poorly executed. I think his hair should have been greyer too - a symbol of what the war did to him.
I did dig the Vader fight in the most recent episode though. He's a badass and I'm here for it. I'm an Anakin fanboy so I liked the flashback as well. Thought they would do far far more of that. Should have.
Years ago you served my father in the clone wars....
Oh...and I almost forgot...you rescued me over the course of several weeks and multiple planets!
It's not just that. Vader hadn't seen Obi-wan since their battle on Mustafar. Now he's already confronted him twice. Next week is highly anti-climactic because we know Vader isn't discovering Luke. So, not only do we know Luke survives, but there is little suspense for any side stories. It will be either Obi-wan outright destroys Riva or she has a redemption scene and sacrifices herself to save Luke from the fate or other younglings. I can't think of any other outcomes.
Sadly, it seems we will not be getting the rumored final battle with Darth Maul.
if it didn't directly spit in the face of A New Hope. It's like they brought Leia into it for fan service but didn't realize how much the fans would hate it.
I don't mind an arc where Ben Kenobi starts broken and then finds peace and his ways again - transformation from broken war loser to wise old sage we see in ANH. But this was just poorly executed. I think his hair should have been greyer too - a symbol of what the war did to him.
I did dig the Vader fight in the most recent episode though. He's a badass and I'm here for it. I'm an Anakin fanboy so I liked the flashback as well. Thought they would do far far more of that. Should have.
Exactry what I was just about to write about Leia. They expected that to be a big reveal that would be wildly popular. They didn't realize so many real fans would hate how that destroys A New Hope. How do they constantly miscalculated so badly? It's as if Kennedy hates Star Wars and hates being placed in charge of it. I can't figure why Disney bought the franchise to shit all over it. If it keeps up, their cash cow will dry up before they are in the black.
As for Obi-wan, I've said it many times now...there is plenty of material about him. He wasn't a broken old man on Tatpoine. He was still training and preparing for Luke. His struggle was more a moral dilemma as he wanted to intervene to help others, and often had to show restraint or do so from a distance.
There was a while book about it called the Oni-wan Chronicles, I believe. That was popular with my boys, as it went back and forth from Obi-wan to Luke (between ESB and ROTJ). Good read and great for young readers. Better than the annoying Leia drivel.
I think its just poor writing and poor direction. No actor can save that. I dont think the director knows how to stage action scenes or she's overwhelmed with other parts to really make them fun. Think about Luke in Mando, that 30 seconds of him overcoming droids is better than Obi vs Vader. That's nuts.
They just missed with the story. Filoni has cache and can get past this but Obi Wan had the potential to be so immense.
Just to play devil’s advocate to some of the comments. Maybe Obi-wan hasn’t used his powers in a while and this set a catalyst that has him up his training over the course of the next 10 yrs.
Perhaps they wipe Leia’s memory of this and that’s why she brings up the Clone Wars. Of course, people will have a problem with that, but are fine with the Father wiping out Anakin’s memory on Mortis after the Son showed him what he would become.
There is a lot that can happen over the next 10 yrs, use your own imagination to fill in the blanks. A lot of us were kids when the OT came out. Everything was bigger and more magical when you’re a kid. Nostalgia must be more powerful than we can possibly imagine.
episodes were good showing Obi-Wan living a humble life. Leah shouldn't be in it at all. He should be saving Luke from dangerous situations without Luke realizing. There is already a bunch of EU material to use for storylines.
Vader can be in it but should be more behind the scenes. It made sense for Ben to learn that Anakin survived but Vader doesn't know that Ben is alive in ANH. He's somewhat surprised to "feel" him on the Death Star in ANH. I did enjoy the flashback parts and how it helped Obi calculate Vader's attack strategy.
The Reva a character is so contrived IMO. I know they thought, "How can we have a sassy, tough black woman be a main character?" There were already numerous Inquisitors to choose from, most are aliens. The others in the show are all from the EU, Reva is a completely new character created for the series.
Just to play devil’s advocate to some of the comments. Maybe Obi-wan hasn’t used his powers in a while and this set a catalyst that has him up his training over the course of the next 10 yrs.
Perhaps they wipe Leia’s memory of this and that’s why she brings up the Clone Wars. Of course, people will have a problem with that, but are fine with the Father wiping out Anakin’s memory on Mortis after the Son showed him what he would become.
There is a lot that can happen over the next 10 yrs, use your own imagination to fill in the blanks. A lot of us were kids when the OT came out. Everything was bigger and more magical when you’re a kid. Nostalgia must be more powerful than we can possibly imagine.
SW target audience shifted with RotJ (hello ewoks). I see this with Pokemon games as well, where 30-40 year olds feel like the new games should be created with them in mind instead of kids; they fail to realize that kids have always been the target audience and they've just aged out.
With SW sure, some of the hardcore fans may be upset just like they were with EP1...and 2...3 not so much that was well received... but the ST and D+ shows are just continuing the cycle of certain segments complaining about SW being ruined.
I think we're at the ''admit it, it sucks'' point...
We have one excellent movie (Empire), two great ones (ANH and Rogue 1) and one good one (ROTJ). And one good series - Mandalorian.
The other 7 movies, Boba Fett and Obi Wan are bad or worse.
Maybe the animated kids' shows are good, I don't know, I haven't watched them and don't see myself doing that. There's too much actual good TV to watch elsewhere.
Just to play devil’s advocate to some of the comments. Maybe Obi-wan hasn’t used his powers in a while and this set a catalyst that has him up his training over the course of the next 10 yrs.
Perhaps they wipe Leia’s memory of this and that’s why she brings up the Clone Wars. Of course, people will have a problem with that, but are fine with the Father wiping out Anakin’s memory on Mortis after the Son showed him what he would become.
There is a lot that can happen over the next 10 yrs, use your own imagination to fill in the blanks. A lot of us were kids when the OT came out. Everything was bigger and more magical when you’re a kid. Nostalgia must be more powerful than we can possibly imagine.
I can use my own imagination and come up with something sure better than what we are seeing here. This isn't just the contradictions to SW cannon or a want for nostalgia, this is plain and simple bad writing.
purpose in life at this point is to watch over Luke so if they had to create something that forced him away, I suppose Leah would be the only thing.
I could see a plot where another Jedi finds Obi through the Force people locater app and tells him about the Inquisitors and needing to save Force-sensitive children, says Obi is the only Jedi strong enough to help. Obi at first says no but finally agrees but insists the other stays Jedi behind to watch over Luke. We could get to know some of the children he will save, maybe a young Ezra thrown in, battles with Inquisitors, etc. Vader pulling the strings but is shocked when they manage to escape, his rage blinding him from feeling Obi-Wan's presence.
yeah, I just dont think Star Wars is meant for the small screen
Like - I don’t want to see this much Vader - it was best that so much of his history and terror was left to the imagination. Now we’re getting scenes basically of ‘Darth Vader, Dark-Side Administrator’
They don’t have the budget to make everything look as good as it should - and you can’t help but become completely aware that the target audience is people who wouldnt yet notice - diluting the quality of the thing in the first place.
Ill kee watching, admittedly, but it’s more like just watching some shitty, pulpy, piece of mindless entertainment. As has been mentioned, there are no real stakes.
We have one excellent movie (Empire), two great ones (ANH and Rogue 1) and one good one (ROTJ). And one good series - Mandalorian.
The other 7 movies, Boba Fett and Obi Wan are bad or worse.
Maybe the animated kids' shows are good, I don't know, I haven't watched them and don't see myself doing that. There's too much actual good TV to watch elsewhere.
Pretty much, yeah. The animated Rebels series is pretty good too, but I agree that most everything done since the original trilogy is crap.
RE: I think we're at the ''admit it, it sucks'' point...
We have one excellent movie (Empire), two great ones (ANH and Rogue 1) and one good one (ROTJ). And one good series - Mandalorian.
The other 7 movies, Boba Fett and Obi Wan are bad or worse.
Maybe the animated kids' shows are good, I don't know, I haven't watched them and don't see myself doing that. There's too much actual good TV to watch elsewhere.
Clone Wars and Rebels are some of the best Star Wars content made. Def worth watching.
I've been watching it with my Star Wars-obsessed 4 yr old son
and we've made an event out of it on Thursday nights since he doesn't go to daycare Fridays, and it's been the highlight of our weeks.
If I'm being critical, Disney certainly missed by hyping this up for years and then delivering only six ~35 minute episodes. It's also clear that they probably made the right business decision by using the first of the new trilogy to go all-in on fan service, because clearly fans don't have any patience for a story to develop when it involves the Skywalker characters.
On the Leia/Obi-Wan thing: If you ask me, it's as easy to jump to the conclusion that in a New Hope she makes it clear she knows him more than she is letting on by using both his names. You can also tell by his reaction to her message that he is struck by more than the content of the message while the message is playing. They're trying to save the galaxy and she was sending a message like the one we just saw in Episode 5 get intercepted, what did we think she'd do? Stop to give us backstory and rat on a guy who is still in hiding? Did we need her to stop Luke in the middle of their adventures saving the galaxy to fill him in on the details of her and Obi-Wan's past?
Still, the writers are on record saying they obviously thoroughly debated this and considered canon.
Quote:
"We talked about it a lot," Harold shared with Entertainment Weekly in regards to the sequence. "And we're looking forward to the show airing in its entirety so that hopefully all questions are answered fully. So it's tricky to field some of those questions mid-process. But yes, all I can say is we're very cognizant of that, and of canon. And it's a massive team, Lucasfilm, so we're all very aware of all the choices that are being made."
animated series was good too, it just has a lot of episodes. The final scene was really good when newly-suited Vader finds the wreckage of the ship Ashoka was on. He finds her lightsaber on the ground in the snow, a bird flies overhead, and you can tell how sad he is.
Like others here, it screws up a lot of what is known/said in "A New Hope". Maybe mentioning Vader so Obi Wan knew he was still alive but not casting him in this series would have been better? The "When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master" line from Vader now carries no meaning. You always got the sense that Ben never left Tatooine once he brought Luke there after he was born. Now I didn't expect to see him making sand castles with Luke in this series, I would have thought it would have been more Luke/Ben centered and you'd also see some communication between him and Qui-Gon (Liam Neeson) and perhaps Yoda.
RE: I think we're at the ''admit it, it sucks'' point...
We have one excellent movie (Empire), two great ones (ANH and Rogue 1) and one good one (ROTJ). And one good series - Mandalorian.
The other 7 movies, Boba Fett and Obi Wan are bad or worse.
Maybe the animated kids' shows are good, I don't know, I haven't watched them and don't see myself doing that. There's too much actual good TV to watch elsewhere.
Yep. I think Mandalorian gave everyone false hope. Disney got excited at the prospect of having a Star Wars thing that didn't suck and just blew their load early with more poorly thought out crap.
where the only thing that mattered was "the Message", because that's all she cares about. Story, script, acting, characters, editing, set design, don't matter. Until Disney cleanes themselves of politics, and realizes their business is "entertainment", not fixing society's problems, they will continue to put out garbage.
You would think the fact that their corporate stock has fallen 36.3% over 6 months would tell them something. Nope, deaf ears.
We have one excellent movie (Empire), two great ones (ANH and Rogue 1) and one good one (ROTJ). And one good series - Mandalorian.
The other 7 movies, Boba Fett and Obi Wan are bad or worse.
Maybe the animated kids' shows are good, I don't know, I haven't watched them and don't see myself doing that. There's too much actual good TV to watch elsewhere.
Clone Wars and Rebels both kind of start off with "kid's gloves", and look a little clunky, but quickly turn into EXCELLENT Star Wars lore. Great storylines, great action, and engaging enough for older fans (as long as you don't mind watching animation). Both stories would have made much better filmic or live action tv versions than what we've gotten so far (not including The Mandalorian).
Each week just gets dumber than the last, which has been the only surprise factor for me.
It goes from straight up lore contradiction to asking us to believe some really dumb stuff (the hat and the trench coat disguise, anybody? REALLY?)...the whole first confrontation with Vader (TERRIBLY DUMB and he did NOT "let Obi Wan go to eff with him"...I quote Plaxico Burress: "get that sh*t outta here")
I can't even keep up with the dumb on this one. It out-dumbs Book of Boba Fett, which is saying alot (although I really enjoyed the two Mando episodes). It rivals the prequels and sequels for dumbitude.
The last 4 episodes of the Clone Wars was incredible (as good as the original trilogy imo), better than the prequels by a lot. Ahsoka, Bo Katan, Maul, Rex and the Clones, you felt something at the end of it.
Mandolorian was great, tell me you didn't get emotional when Mando and Grogu parted. Plus the action was well choreographed and fun. Ahsoka as a jedi whooped that ass, as did Luke. But the story, writing and acting was all well done.
Obi Wan has enormous potential, everyone loves this character already. But watching this, I don't laugh, I don't get misty eyed, the action is boring, there are a few fan service moments which feel cheap and flat after inital shock.
I dunno. I just thought it would be excellent after Mando.
where the only thing that mattered was "the Message", because that's all she cares about. Story, script, acting, characters, editing, set design, don't matter. Until Disney cleanes themselves of politics, and realizes their business is "entertainment", not fixing society's problems, they will continue to put out garbage.
You would think the fact that their corporate stock has fallen 36.3% over 6 months would tell them something. Nope, deaf ears.
And they surprisingly canned the head TV exec. The blame game was already underway. RIP Lucasfilm.
RE: STar Wars can be good, in fact it can be fantastic
The last 4 episodes of the Clone Wars was incredible (as good as the original trilogy imo), better than the prequels by a lot. Ahsoka, Bo Katan, Maul, Rex and the Clones, you felt something at the end of it.
Mandolorian was great, tell me you didn't get emotional when Mando and Grogu parted. Plus the action was well choreographed and fun. Ahsoka as a jedi whooped that ass, as did Luke. But the story, writing and acting was all well done.
Obi Wan has enormous potential, everyone loves this character already. But watching this, I don't laugh, I don't get misty eyed, the action is boring, there are a few fan service moments which feel cheap and flat after inital shock.
I dunno. I just thought it would be excellent after Mando.
I definitely understand the contrast and criticism here. TCW created new characters and spanned 7 seasons, Mando again mostly new characters and we have no idea what the end will be...ObiWan is much more constrained, in terms of characters, episodes, and knowing what the end result has to be because of IV.
I believe Andor will be good because it can explore other characters and places, and doesn't have quite the same constraints on the end game.
Bail Organa has worked so hard to protect Leia and her secret lineage from anyone which is why she has never left her planet until she was kidnapped. Then he sends a message to Obi-Wan fearing something happened to him and gives up everything including Luke and he somehow mentions Owen which makes no sense either. If he is concerned that something happened to Obi-Wan why the hell would he send a message that will then be intercepted by the empire providing them with both of Vader's children?
after the second episode, but for your enjoyment... YouTuber Robot Head's take from June 7th....
Lucasfilm Hates Everything To Do With The Jedi - ( New Window )
Robot Head is awesome. Thank for sharing this. It's the usual top quality.
Watched a lot of the animated stuff on Disney + during the pandemic and the new series.
I enjoy the show. I don't expect too much from it. Unlike others I think it adds more to ANH, so the next time I watch it I can see it from another perspective, which I think is cool. How often does that happen with 40+ year old movies.
They are in a no win situation with most of the star wars stuff because people are going to be hypercritical, particularly with characters from the original trilogy.I bet Ahsoka & Andor will do better with fans
RE: The fight scene between Vader and Riva was so bad
Everything about it was just ridiculous and corny looking.
Thank you. It looked like a fight scene from one of those spoof movies that would have been made about this series. Someone needs to just shoot Kathleen Kennedy.
Watched a lot of the animated stuff on Disney + during the pandemic and the new series.
I enjoy the show. I don't expect too much from it. Unlike others I think it adds more to ANH, so the next time I watch it I can see it from another perspective, which I think is cool. How often does that happen with 40+ year old movies.
They are in a no win situation with most of the star wars stuff because people are going to be hypercritical, particularly with characters from the original trilogy.I bet Ahsoka & Andor will do better with fans
I disagree. There is a lot they could have done with this show and character without pissing off a lot of fans, while at the same time not pandering to them as well. They just produced a real shit burger here.
People are nitpicking. It's actually a very good series.
I don't really see any continuity issues - everything that takes place seems reasonable about 10 years prior to the events of New Hope.
If anything, the series is held back by the fact that it is so closely tied to the first two trilogies - character look, action sequences, and dialogue has to remain somewhat consistent. There's an attempt to try to get these episodes to fit in seamlessly with films that were made 20 and 40 years ago, so of course it's going to suffer a bit creatively and visually.
But it still manages, rather impressively in my opinion, to provide a pretty fresh take on characters whom everyone has become very familiar with over the years. I agree that the new characters, including Reva, leave a lot to be desired but they're just vehicles to move the plot - they're not all that important to the story being told. Regardless, I'm looking forward to the finale.
RE: People are nitpicking. It's actually a very good series.
I don't really see any continuity issues - everything that takes place seems reasonable about 10 years prior to the events of New Hope.
If anything, the series is held back by the fact that it is so closely tied to the first two trilogies - character look, action sequences, and dialogue has to remain somewhat consistent. There's an attempt to try to get these episodes to fit in seamlessly with films that were made 20 and 40 years ago, so of course it's going to suffer a bit creatively and visually.
But it still manages, rather impressively in my opinion, to provide a pretty fresh take on characters whom everyone has become very familiar with over the years. I agree that the new characters, including Reva, leave a lot to be desired but they're just vehicles to move the plot - they're not all that important to the story being told. Regardless, I'm looking forward to the finale.
I don't think it's nitpicking at all. There are big issues with this show. It's not a fresh take; it's a dismantling of known characters. If Kennedy and Disney don't like the original Star Wars, but like the brand, then they need to focus solely on new stuff instead of shredding all the known entities and stories.
Watched a lot of the animated stuff on Disney + during the pandemic and the new series.
I enjoy the show. I don't expect too much from it. Unlike others I think it adds more to ANH, so the next time I watch it I can see it from another perspective, which I think is cool. How often does that happen with 40+ year old movies.
They are in a no win situation with most of the star wars stuff because people are going to be hypercritical, particularly with characters from the original trilogy.I bet Ahsoka & Andor will do better with fans
I disagree. There is a lot they could have done with this show and character without pissing off a lot of fans, while at the same time not pandering to them as well. They just produced a real shit burger here.
So they set out to piss off and pander to their fans? I agree there is more they could have done with this show, but no matter what they did it was going to be met with a lot of criticism. Star Wars fans have known many of these characters for years and developed a connection to them and the original storyline.
Mando and rogue one characters/storyline did not have the same connection I don't think it is a coincidence that they were much better received by fans. The safe thing would be to keep expanding the SW universe I think the challenge lies in trying to weave it all together.
Watched a lot of the animated stuff on Disney + during the pandemic and the new series.
I enjoy the show. I don't expect too much from it. Unlike others I think it adds more to ANH, so the next time I watch it I can see it from another perspective, which I think is cool. How often does that happen with 40+ year old movies.
They are in a no win situation with most of the star wars stuff because people are going to be hypercritical, particularly with characters from the original trilogy.I bet Ahsoka & Andor will do better with fans
I disagree. There is a lot they could have done with this show and character without pissing off a lot of fans, while at the same time not pandering to them as well. They just produced a real shit burger here.
So they set out to piss off and pander to their fans? I agree there is more they could have done with this show, but no matter what they did it was going to be met with a lot of criticism. Star Wars fans have known many of these characters for years and developed a connection to them and the original storyline.
Mando and rogue one characters/storyline did not have the same connection I don't think it is a coincidence that they were much better received by fans. The safe thing would be to keep expanding the SW universe I think the challenge lies in trying to weave it all together.
Rogue One had a direct connection to the original story. It literally ends where A New Hope begins and a CGI Leia is in it.
Disney thinks having a strong connection to the original stories is pandering, which they don't want to do. They aren't interested in the original fans; they are too old and Disney assumes they will watch regardless. They aren't completely wrong in that regard. But, by spitting in the face of the original, they alienate those fans. It makes no sense and the story they came up with is drivel.
It didn't need to be a direct connection to the original/canon material. But, it should not have completely disconnected to the point of the story now making no sense either.
Rogue One had a direct connection to the original story. It literally ends where A New Hope begins and a CGI Leia is in it.
Disney thinks having a strong connection to the original stories is pandering, which they don't want to do. They aren't interested in the original fans; they are too old and Disney assumes they will watch regardless. They aren't completely wrong in that regard. But, by spitting in the face of the original, they alienate those fans. It makes no sense and the story they came up with is drivel.
It didn't need to be a direct connection to the original/canon material. But, it should not have completely disconnected to the point of the story now making no sense either.
Obviously Rogue One connected to the storyline, but the story itself was almost completely independent and just provided a backstory of how they got there. Which is basically what they are trying to do with Kenobi, but the story can't be independent as they are tasked with tying to the prequels and to the original trilogy. Plus they are using characters that people already know and have a connection with. They had a lot more freedom with Rogue One to do what they wanted without alienating fans.
Personally I am not as offended by a backstory providing context which may change my thoughts about A New Hope but I can see why others would be.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Always was a big Star Wars fan
Rogue One had a direct connection to the original story. It literally ends where A New Hope begins and a CGI Leia is in it.
Disney thinks having a strong connection to the original stories is pandering, which they don't want to do. They aren't interested in the original fans; they are too old and Disney assumes they will watch regardless. They aren't completely wrong in that regard. But, by spitting in the face of the original, they alienate those fans. It makes no sense and the story they came up with is drivel.
It didn't need to be a direct connection to the original/canon material. But, it should not have completely disconnected to the point of the story now making no sense either.
Obviously Rogue One connected to the storyline, but the story itself was almost completely independent and just provided a backstory of how they got there. Which is basically what they are trying to do with Kenobi, but the story can't be independent as they are tasked with tying to the prequels and to the original trilogy. Plus they are using characters that people already know and have a connection with. They had a lot more freedom with Rogue One to do what they wanted without alienating fans.
Personally I am not as offended by a backstory providing context which may change my thoughts about A New Hope but I can see why others would be.
It's not about changing thoughts. This completely changes A New Hope or makes its story invalid. The whole point is that story started on a leap of faith out of desperation. Rogue One tied to that. At the end, the Rebellion ultimately put everything they had into getting those plans. They were about to lose them.
Leia took a leap of faith and so did every other character basically, based on that message. This changes the whole narrative. There was plenty to do here with backstory that didn't involve completely ruining the Star Wars story.
Again, if they don't like the origin characters and story, then don't use them at all. Instead they shit all over them. For example, there is enough material out there where Ob-wan was not wallowing in self-pity and doubt, but training and preparing for Luke, and trying to still act like a Jedi without revealing himself. He didn't leave the planet, which is a major plot point. He didn't reveal if he was alive or dead. He disappeared for nearly 20 years.
is inconsistent with the events of New Hope. Sure, 10 year-old Leia is somewhat an annoying character because she's sassy and rebellious - but that's clearly by design because the 19 year old version of her is sassy and rebellious. You can argue that it was a poor creative choice to do that with her child version, but her character is the same.
Also, Leia's R2 message to Obi Wan still makes sense because she's not pleading for him to help her personally, but to help the rebellion. Obviously Obi Wan would be hesitant to leave Luke (again) and get involved with that - her calling back to his service as a general in the clone wars makes the better case than her calling back to the time he got a lot of innocent people killed while trying to rescue her from capture when she was 10.
And important to note that New Hope isn't for another 9 years in this timeline. It seems reasonable to expect that the events of this series are what spurs Obi Wan to sharpen his skills as a Jedi to be a better protector of Luke and to ultimately train him (we should have a better picture of whether that will be the case the final episode airs). Either way, 9 years is a long time.
I suppose you can nitpick at the line in New Hope where Vader tells Obi Wan when last they met he was the learner and now he's the master. We know now that the last time they met Vader was dragging Obi Wan across a fire as he was attempting to flee. But it doesn't change at all the main point of that line, which was to establish that Vader was once his pupil. It's nitpicking to expect purity between projects that are 40 years apart.
is inconsistent with the events of New Hope. Sure, 10 year-old Leia is somewhat an annoying character because she's sassy and rebellious - but that's clearly by design because the 19 year old version of her is sassy and rebellious. You can argue that it was a poor creative choice to do that with her child version, but her character is the same.
Also, Leia's R2 message to Obi Wan still makes sense because she's not pleading for him to help her personally, but to help the rebellion. Obviously Obi Wan would be hesitant to leave Luke (again) and get involved with that - her calling back to his service as a general in the clone wars makes the better case than her calling back to the time he got a lot of innocent people killed while trying to rescue her from capture when she was 10.
And important to note that New Hope isn't for another 9 years in this timeline. It seems reasonable to expect that the events of this series are what spurs Obi Wan to sharpen his skills as a Jedi to be a better protector of Luke and to ultimately train him (we should have a better picture of whether that will be the case the final episode airs). Either way, 9 years is a long time.
I suppose you can nitpick at the line in New Hope where Vader tells Obi Wan when last they met he was the learner and now he's the master. We know now that the last time they met Vader was dragging Obi Wan across a fire as he was attempting to flee. But it doesn't change at all the main point of that line, which was to establish that Vader was once his pupil. It's nitpicking to expect purity between projects that are 40 years apart.
There's inconsistency between GLs own stories. It's not exactly like SW has ever had a rock solid canon. ObiWan's "from a certain point of view" was fixing a plot hole GL created. Tarkin saying "surely he's dead by now" was because originally the PT events happened much longer before EpIV.
is inconsistent with the events of New Hope. Sure, 10 year-old Leia is somewhat an annoying character because she's sassy and rebellious - but that's clearly by design because the 19 year old version of her is sassy and rebellious. You can argue that it was a poor creative choice to do that with her child version, but her character is the same.
Also, Leia's R2 message to Obi Wan still makes sense because she's not pleading for him to help her personally, but to help the rebellion. Obviously Obi Wan would be hesitant to leave Luke (again) and get involved with that - her calling back to his service as a general in the clone wars makes the better case than her calling back to the time he got a lot of innocent people killed while trying to rescue her from capture when she was 10.
And important to note that New Hope isn't for another 9 years in this timeline. It seems reasonable to expect that the events of this series are what spurs Obi Wan to sharpen his skills as a Jedi to be a better protector of Luke and to ultimately train him (we should have a better picture of whether that will be the case the final episode airs). Either way, 9 years is a long time.
I suppose you can nitpick at the line in New Hope where Vader tells Obi Wan when last they met he was the learner and now he's the master. We know now that the last time they met Vader was dragging Obi Wan across a fire as he was attempting to flee. But it doesn't change at all the main point of that line, which was to establish that Vader was once his pupil. It's nitpicking to expect purity between projects that are 40 years apart.
I actually think the casting and portrayal of Leia is good. The story is not.
is inconsistent with the events of New Hope. Sure, 10 year-old Leia is somewhat an annoying character because she's sassy and rebellious - but that's clearly by design because the 19 year old version of her is sassy and rebellious. You can argue that it was a poor creative choice to do that with her child version, but her character is the same.
Also, Leia's R2 message to Obi Wan still makes sense because she's not pleading for him to help her personally, but to help the rebellion. Obviously Obi Wan would be hesitant to leave Luke (again) and get involved with that - her calling back to his service as a general in the clone wars makes the better case than her calling back to the time he got a lot of innocent people killed while trying to rescue her from capture when she was 10.
And important to note that New Hope isn't for another 9 years in this timeline. It seems reasonable to expect that the events of this series are what spurs Obi Wan to sharpen his skills as a Jedi to be a better protector of Luke and to ultimately train him (we should have a better picture of whether that will be the case the final episode airs). Either way, 9 years is a long time.
I suppose you can nitpick at the line in New Hope where Vader tells Obi Wan when last they met he was the learner and now he's the master. We know now that the last time they met Vader was dragging Obi Wan across a fire as he was attempting to flee. But it doesn't change at all the main point of that line, which was to establish that Vader was once his pupil. It's nitpicking to expect purity between projects that are 40 years apart.
Obi-wan was training the entire time on Tatooine. That has been long established. It's one thing not to use the EU, but quite another to completely trash stuff like that. Yoda gave him training before he went into hiding. Plus, he was preparing materials for Luke to train. And he was helping creatures on Tatooine without revealing he was a Jedi. It created a big dilemma for him. He had to intervene without noticeably intervening, which actually required him to actively use the Force throughout.
RE: RE: Still not seeing why anyone thinks this show
is inconsistent with the events of New Hope. Sure, 10 year-old Leia is somewhat an annoying character because she's sassy and rebellious - but that's clearly by design because the 19 year old version of her is sassy and rebellious. You can argue that it was a poor creative choice to do that with her child version, but her character is the same.
Also, Leia's R2 message to Obi Wan still makes sense because she's not pleading for him to help her personally, but to help the rebellion. Obviously Obi Wan would be hesitant to leave Luke (again) and get involved with that - her calling back to his service as a general in the clone wars makes the better case than her calling back to the time he got a lot of innocent people killed while trying to rescue her from capture when she was 10.
And important to note that New Hope isn't for another 9 years in this timeline. It seems reasonable to expect that the events of this series are what spurs Obi Wan to sharpen his skills as a Jedi to be a better protector of Luke and to ultimately train him (we should have a better picture of whether that will be the case the final episode airs). Either way, 9 years is a long time.
I suppose you can nitpick at the line in New Hope where Vader tells Obi Wan when last they met he was the learner and now he's the master. We know now that the last time they met Vader was dragging Obi Wan across a fire as he was attempting to flee. But it doesn't change at all the main point of that line, which was to establish that Vader was once his pupil. It's nitpicking to expect purity between projects that are 40 years apart.
There's inconsistency between GLs own stories. It's not exactly like SW has ever had a rock solid canon. ObiWan's "from a certain point of view" was fixing a plot hole GL created. Tarkin saying "surely he's dead by now" was because originally the PT events happened much longer before EpIV.
A valid criticism of the prequels was that they also created plot holes or problems. This is because Lucas deviated from his original back story to pander to kids. It's a big reason the films were not wildly popular. For example, Anakin on Tatooine was not his original story.
where the only thing that mattered was "the Message", because that's all she cares about. Story, script, acting, characters, editing, set design, don't matter. Until Disney cleanes themselves of politics, and realizes their business is "entertainment", not fixing society's problems, they will continue to put out garbage.
You would think the fact that their corporate stock has fallen 36.3% over 6 months would tell them something. Nope, deaf ears.
If you think that this is the problem and not the actual poor acting, directing, and writing then I would say that you have a more of an agenda than Disney does.
The person said they had changed the character and this spoiled the original Star Wars story. I now have forgotten who that was.
I told that person that there would be a redemption arc that the character had to go through and in the end, it would make sense. After the finale, I think my prediction was spot on.
People are getting tied up in knots because Obi-wan entered this series as a weak broken man who had fallen away from his Jedi past. If he were a military guy, we would say he was suffering from PTSD and needed to find his reason to go on after the significant trauma of losing his entire way of life, having the Jedi order decimated and his best friend turn into a Sith Lord who betrayed them all. That would crush the spirit of almost anyone.
I think they did an excellent job of having Obi-wan learn that the galaxy didn’t need the Jedi to fight on- but they did need protection from the Empire. Through that journey, he found his reason to go on and rediscover who he was and what his purpose was.
At the end, we see the powerful Jedi Master again emerge- and I won’t spoil the rest for those who have not seen it. But the ending and dialogue brought the story full circle.
There were some silly moments- like Obi-wan getting chased by a Star Destroyer in a shuttle to a planet- but when he leaves the planet- the Star Destroyer is gone. Doesn’t make sense in light of what occurred on the planet, but it doesn’t break the story.
In fact, the finale probably sets the stage for what will come in Ashoka and other related stories from the time period. The rebellion is forming and now Obi-wan knows his role in the galaxy and his purpose.
have said something like “still not a master” bc Anakin never achieved that as a Jedi.
I thought it was better that for the first time, Obi-wan realized that this wasn’t Anakin anymore- and simply called him “Darth.” Seeing Vader’s temper tantrum afterwards showed that one stung, as Obi-wan was effectively saying he no longer cared and Vader’s taunts couldn’t hurt Obi-wan anymore.
RE: I had a discussion with someone in a different Obi-wan thread
The person said they had changed the character and this spoiled the original Star Wars story. I now have forgotten who that was.
I told that person that there would be a redemption arc that the character had to go through and in the end, it would make sense. After the finale, I think my prediction was spot on.
People are getting tied up in knots because Obi-wan entered this series as a weak broken man who had fallen away from his Jedi past. If he were a military guy, we would say he was suffering from PTSD and needed to find his reason to go on after the significant trauma of losing his entire way of life, having the Jedi order decimated and his best friend turn into a Sith Lord who betrayed them all. That would crush the spirit of almost anyone.
I think they did an excellent job of having Obi-wan learn that the galaxy didn’t need the Jedi to fight on- but they did need protection from the Empire. Through that journey, he found his reason to go on and rediscover who he was and what his purpose was.
At the end, we see the powerful Jedi Master again emerge- and I won’t spoil the rest for those who have not seen it. But the ending and dialogue brought the story full circle.
There were some silly moments- like Obi-wan getting chased by a Star Destroyer in a shuttle to a planet- but when he leaves the planet- the Star Destroyer is gone. Doesn’t make sense in light of what occurred on the planet, but it doesn’t break the story.
In fact, the finale probably sets the stage for what will come in Ashoka and other related stories from the time period. The rebellion is forming and now Obi-wan knows his role in the galaxy and his purpose.
That was me and I stand by it. If this was stand alone show/story with no connections to the story we already know, it was good. But, Obi-wan wasn't weak and wallowing for all that time. He never met Leia. He never met Vader again until ANH. Nobody discovered the true identity of Luke.
I will reiterate that if this was a stand alone story
it was pretty good. I also saw the true redemption being Reva, which I think was a bit overdone. But, overall, a decent story. I just would have enjoyed it more if I hadn't known more of what cam next and before.
RE: I think we're at the ''admit it, it sucks'' point...
We have one excellent movie (Empire), two great ones (ANH and Rogue 1) and one good one (ROTJ). And one good series - Mandalorian.
The other 7 movies, Boba Fett and Obi Wan are bad or worse.
Maybe the animated kids' shows are good, I don't know, I haven't watched them and don't see myself doing that. There's too much actual good TV to watch elsewhere.
That's precisely how I see it. I maintain to this day that watching The Phantom Menace was the worst experience I've ever had in a theater. I've seen worse movies I'm sure, but not ones that I expected more from or anticipated more.
I never dared watch the other two prequels in their entirety but I've seen various scenes. Maybe it's true that they're not as bad as PM but only by a matter of degrees. From what I saw they have no personality or charisma... their attempts to introduce any just come across as insultingly silly. If they were standalone films and not prequels to some of the most popular films in history, they'd be unanimously shit upon.
The 7th and 8th episodes whose titles I'm not going to bother to remember were an improvement over the prequels, but that's hardly an accomplishment worth celebrating. They certainly weren't as wooden and they had some decent moments, but they still didn't convey the spirit of the originals. I'm only assuming the same is true of the 9th -- why shouldn't I?
This is also the first of their TV projects that looks like a TV project. For example, when the 2 speeders attacked the base to save them, it looked terrible. You could tell they were models, which is unheard of for Star Wars. It's not just that it's on the small screen. It's that it is a small screen production, if that makes sense.
I enjoyed the latest episode though the battle portions were not done well. An Obi Wan vs Vader showdown will be nice.
Also the PG, sanitized violence of the show takes away any sizzle. I know it's Disney but they won't even show half the grit of say the Mandalorian. For me the young Leia (baby Leia) character is a mistake, insufferable and a play to the younger viewer.
Oh...and I almost forgot...you rescued me over the course of several weeks and multiple planets!
Oh...and I almost forgot...you rescued me over the course of several weeks and multiple planets!
Exactly…
I have a variety of feedback on it, little of it good. But I won't keep piling on.
Also the PG, sanitized violence of the show takes away any sizzle. I know it's Disney but they won't even show half the grit of say the Mandalorian. For me the young Leia (baby Leia) character is a mistake, insufferable and a play to the younger viewer.
I don't mind an arc where Ben Kenobi starts broken and then finds peace and his ways again - transformation from broken war loser to wise old sage we see in ANH. But this was just poorly executed. I think his hair should have been greyer too - a symbol of what the war did to him.
I did dig the Vader fight in the most recent episode though. He's a badass and I'm here for it. I'm an Anakin fanboy so I liked the flashback as well. Thought they would do far far more of that. Should have.
Oh...and I almost forgot...you rescued me over the course of several weeks and multiple planets!
Sadly, it seems we will not be getting the rumored final battle with Darth Maul.
I don't mind an arc where Ben Kenobi starts broken and then finds peace and his ways again - transformation from broken war loser to wise old sage we see in ANH. But this was just poorly executed. I think his hair should have been greyer too - a symbol of what the war did to him.
I did dig the Vader fight in the most recent episode though. He's a badass and I'm here for it. I'm an Anakin fanboy so I liked the flashback as well. Thought they would do far far more of that. Should have.
As for Obi-wan, I've said it many times now...there is plenty of material about him. He wasn't a broken old man on Tatpoine. He was still training and preparing for Luke. His struggle was more a moral dilemma as he wanted to intervene to help others, and often had to show restraint or do so from a distance.
There was a while book about it called the Oni-wan Chronicles, I believe. That was popular with my boys, as it went back and forth from Obi-wan to Luke (between ESB and ROTJ). Good read and great for young readers. Better than the annoying Leia drivel.
They just missed with the story. Filoni has cache and can get past this but Obi Wan had the potential to be so immense.
And why is the CGI so friggin bad.
Perhaps they wipe Leia’s memory of this and that’s why she brings up the Clone Wars. Of course, people will have a problem with that, but are fine with the Father wiping out Anakin’s memory on Mortis after the Son showed him what he would become.
There is a lot that can happen over the next 10 yrs, use your own imagination to fill in the blanks. A lot of us were kids when the OT came out. Everything was bigger and more magical when you’re a kid. Nostalgia must be more powerful than we can possibly imagine.
Vader can be in it but should be more behind the scenes. It made sense for Ben to learn that Anakin survived but Vader doesn't know that Ben is alive in ANH. He's somewhat surprised to "feel" him on the Death Star in ANH. I did enjoy the flashback parts and how it helped Obi calculate Vader's attack strategy.
The Reva a character is so contrived IMO. I know they thought, "How can we have a sassy, tough black woman be a main character?" There were already numerous Inquisitors to choose from, most are aliens. The others in the show are all from the EU, Reva is a completely new character created for the series.
Perhaps they wipe Leia’s memory of this and that’s why she brings up the Clone Wars. Of course, people will have a problem with that, but are fine with the Father wiping out Anakin’s memory on Mortis after the Son showed him what he would become.
There is a lot that can happen over the next 10 yrs, use your own imagination to fill in the blanks. A lot of us were kids when the OT came out. Everything was bigger and more magical when you’re a kid. Nostalgia must be more powerful than we can possibly imagine.
SW target audience shifted with RotJ (hello ewoks). I see this with Pokemon games as well, where 30-40 year olds feel like the new games should be created with them in mind instead of kids; they fail to realize that kids have always been the target audience and they've just aged out.
With SW sure, some of the hardcore fans may be upset just like they were with EP1...and 2...3 not so much that was well received... but the ST and D+ shows are just continuing the cycle of certain segments complaining about SW being ruined.
We have one excellent movie (Empire), two great ones (ANH and Rogue 1) and one good one (ROTJ). And one good series - Mandalorian.
The other 7 movies, Boba Fett and Obi Wan are bad or worse.
Maybe the animated kids' shows are good, I don't know, I haven't watched them and don't see myself doing that. There's too much actual good TV to watch elsewhere.
Perhaps they wipe Leia’s memory of this and that’s why she brings up the Clone Wars. Of course, people will have a problem with that, but are fine with the Father wiping out Anakin’s memory on Mortis after the Son showed him what he would become.
There is a lot that can happen over the next 10 yrs, use your own imagination to fill in the blanks. A lot of us were kids when the OT came out. Everything was bigger and more magical when you’re a kid. Nostalgia must be more powerful than we can possibly imagine.
I can use my own imagination and come up with something sure better than what we are seeing here. This isn't just the contradictions to SW cannon or a want for nostalgia, this is plain and simple bad writing.
I could see a plot where another Jedi finds Obi through the Force people locater app and tells him about the Inquisitors and needing to save Force-sensitive children, says Obi is the only Jedi strong enough to help. Obi at first says no but finally agrees but insists the other stays Jedi behind to watch over Luke. We could get to know some of the children he will save, maybe a young Ezra thrown in, battles with Inquisitors, etc. Vader pulling the strings but is shocked when they manage to escape, his rage blinding him from feeling Obi-Wan's presence.
They don’t have the budget to make everything look as good as it should - and you can’t help but become completely aware that the target audience is people who wouldnt yet notice - diluting the quality of the thing in the first place.
Ill kee watching, admittedly, but it’s more like just watching some shitty, pulpy, piece of mindless entertainment. As has been mentioned, there are no real stakes.
Feels like a lot of blown potential, that’s all
I mean the show sucks. Nitpicking infers its good.
Other than that, great show!
We have one excellent movie (Empire), two great ones (ANH and Rogue 1) and one good one (ROTJ). And one good series - Mandalorian.
The other 7 movies, Boba Fett and Obi Wan are bad or worse.
Maybe the animated kids' shows are good, I don't know, I haven't watched them and don't see myself doing that. There's too much actual good TV to watch elsewhere.
Pretty much, yeah. The animated Rebels series is pretty good too, but I agree that most everything done since the original trilogy is crap.
We have one excellent movie (Empire), two great ones (ANH and Rogue 1) and one good one (ROTJ). And one good series - Mandalorian.
The other 7 movies, Boba Fett and Obi Wan are bad or worse.
Maybe the animated kids' shows are good, I don't know, I haven't watched them and don't see myself doing that. There's too much actual good TV to watch elsewhere.
Clone Wars and Rebels are some of the best Star Wars content made. Def worth watching.
If I'm being critical, Disney certainly missed by hyping this up for years and then delivering only six ~35 minute episodes. It's also clear that they probably made the right business decision by using the first of the new trilogy to go all-in on fan service, because clearly fans don't have any patience for a story to develop when it involves the Skywalker characters.
On the Leia/Obi-Wan thing: If you ask me, it's as easy to jump to the conclusion that in a New Hope she makes it clear she knows him more than she is letting on by using both his names. You can also tell by his reaction to her message that he is struck by more than the content of the message while the message is playing. They're trying to save the galaxy and she was sending a message like the one we just saw in Episode 5 get intercepted, what did we think she'd do? Stop to give us backstory and rat on a guy who is still in hiding? Did we need her to stop Luke in the middle of their adventures saving the galaxy to fill him in on the details of her and Obi-Wan's past?
Still, the writers are on record saying they obviously thoroughly debated this and considered canon.
At the end of the day, haters are going to hate. But I'd rather have these 6 episodes than none at all. Star Wars is fun.
Star Wars: Obi-Wan Kenobi Writer Addresses Series' Impact on Leia's Original Hologram Message - ( New Window )
We have one excellent movie (Empire), two great ones (ANH and Rogue 1) and one good one (ROTJ). And one good series - Mandalorian.
The other 7 movies, Boba Fett and Obi Wan are bad or worse.
Maybe the animated kids' shows are good, I don't know, I haven't watched them and don't see myself doing that. There's too much actual good TV to watch elsewhere.
Yep. I think Mandalorian gave everyone false hope. Disney got excited at the prospect of having a Star Wars thing that didn't suck and just blew their load early with more poorly thought out crap.
You would think the fact that their corporate stock has fallen 36.3% over 6 months would tell them something. Nope, deaf ears.
We have one excellent movie (Empire), two great ones (ANH and Rogue 1) and one good one (ROTJ). And one good series - Mandalorian.
The other 7 movies, Boba Fett and Obi Wan are bad or worse.
Maybe the animated kids' shows are good, I don't know, I haven't watched them and don't see myself doing that. There's too much actual good TV to watch elsewhere.
Clone Wars and Rebels both kind of start off with "kid's gloves", and look a little clunky, but quickly turn into EXCELLENT Star Wars lore. Great storylines, great action, and engaging enough for older fans (as long as you don't mind watching animation). Both stories would have made much better filmic or live action tv versions than what we've gotten so far (not including The Mandalorian).
Each week just gets dumber than the last, which has been the only surprise factor for me.
It goes from straight up lore contradiction to asking us to believe some really dumb stuff (the hat and the trench coat disguise, anybody? REALLY?)...the whole first confrontation with Vader (TERRIBLY DUMB and he did NOT "let Obi Wan go to eff with him"...I quote Plaxico Burress: "get that sh*t outta here")
I can't even keep up with the dumb on this one. It out-dumbs Book of Boba Fett, which is saying alot (although I really enjoyed the two Mando episodes). It rivals the prequels and sequels for dumbitude.
Lucasfilm Hates Everything To Do With The Jedi - ( New Window )
Mandolorian was great, tell me you didn't get emotional when Mando and Grogu parted. Plus the action was well choreographed and fun. Ahsoka as a jedi whooped that ass, as did Luke. But the story, writing and acting was all well done.
Obi Wan has enormous potential, everyone loves this character already. But watching this, I don't laugh, I don't get misty eyed, the action is boring, there are a few fan service moments which feel cheap and flat after inital shock.
I dunno. I just thought it would be excellent after Mando.
Link - ( New Window )
You would think the fact that their corporate stock has fallen 36.3% over 6 months would tell them something. Nope, deaf ears.
And they surprisingly canned the head TV exec. The blame game was already underway. RIP Lucasfilm.
Mandolorian was great, tell me you didn't get emotional when Mando and Grogu parted. Plus the action was well choreographed and fun. Ahsoka as a jedi whooped that ass, as did Luke. But the story, writing and acting was all well done.
Obi Wan has enormous potential, everyone loves this character already. But watching this, I don't laugh, I don't get misty eyed, the action is boring, there are a few fan service moments which feel cheap and flat after inital shock.
I dunno. I just thought it would be excellent after Mando.
I definitely understand the contrast and criticism here. TCW created new characters and spanned 7 seasons, Mando again mostly new characters and we have no idea what the end will be...ObiWan is much more constrained, in terms of characters, episodes, and knowing what the end result has to be because of IV.
I believe Andor will be good because it can explore other characters and places, and doesn't have quite the same constraints on the end game.
Lucasfilm Hates Everything To Do With The Jedi - ( New Window )
I enjoy the show. I don't expect too much from it. Unlike others I think it adds more to ANH, so the next time I watch it I can see it from another perspective, which I think is cool. How often does that happen with 40+ year old movies.
They are in a no win situation with most of the star wars stuff because people are going to be hypercritical, particularly with characters from the original trilogy.I bet Ahsoka & Andor will do better with fans
I enjoy the show. I don't expect too much from it. Unlike others I think it adds more to ANH, so the next time I watch it I can see it from another perspective, which I think is cool. How often does that happen with 40+ year old movies.
They are in a no win situation with most of the star wars stuff because people are going to be hypercritical, particularly with characters from the original trilogy.I bet Ahsoka & Andor will do better with fans
If anything, the series is held back by the fact that it is so closely tied to the first two trilogies - character look, action sequences, and dialogue has to remain somewhat consistent. There's an attempt to try to get these episodes to fit in seamlessly with films that were made 20 and 40 years ago, so of course it's going to suffer a bit creatively and visually.
But it still manages, rather impressively in my opinion, to provide a pretty fresh take on characters whom everyone has become very familiar with over the years. I agree that the new characters, including Reva, leave a lot to be desired but they're just vehicles to move the plot - they're not all that important to the story being told. Regardless, I'm looking forward to the finale.
If anything, the series is held back by the fact that it is so closely tied to the first two trilogies - character look, action sequences, and dialogue has to remain somewhat consistent. There's an attempt to try to get these episodes to fit in seamlessly with films that were made 20 and 40 years ago, so of course it's going to suffer a bit creatively and visually.
But it still manages, rather impressively in my opinion, to provide a pretty fresh take on characters whom everyone has become very familiar with over the years. I agree that the new characters, including Reva, leave a lot to be desired but they're just vehicles to move the plot - they're not all that important to the story being told. Regardless, I'm looking forward to the finale.
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Watched a lot of the animated stuff on Disney + during the pandemic and the new series.
I enjoy the show. I don't expect too much from it. Unlike others I think it adds more to ANH, so the next time I watch it I can see it from another perspective, which I think is cool. How often does that happen with 40+ year old movies.
They are in a no win situation with most of the star wars stuff because people are going to be hypercritical, particularly with characters from the original trilogy.I bet Ahsoka & Andor will do better with fans
I disagree. There is a lot they could have done with this show and character without pissing off a lot of fans, while at the same time not pandering to them as well. They just produced a real shit burger here.
So they set out to piss off and pander to their fans? I agree there is more they could have done with this show, but no matter what they did it was going to be met with a lot of criticism. Star Wars fans have known many of these characters for years and developed a connection to them and the original storyline.
Mando and rogue one characters/storyline did not have the same connection I don't think it is a coincidence that they were much better received by fans. The safe thing would be to keep expanding the SW universe I think the challenge lies in trying to weave it all together.
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In comment 15735427 Chocco said:
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Watched a lot of the animated stuff on Disney + during the pandemic and the new series.
I enjoy the show. I don't expect too much from it. Unlike others I think it adds more to ANH, so the next time I watch it I can see it from another perspective, which I think is cool. How often does that happen with 40+ year old movies.
They are in a no win situation with most of the star wars stuff because people are going to be hypercritical, particularly with characters from the original trilogy.I bet Ahsoka & Andor will do better with fans
I disagree. There is a lot they could have done with this show and character without pissing off a lot of fans, while at the same time not pandering to them as well. They just produced a real shit burger here.
So they set out to piss off and pander to their fans? I agree there is more they could have done with this show, but no matter what they did it was going to be met with a lot of criticism. Star Wars fans have known many of these characters for years and developed a connection to them and the original storyline.
Mando and rogue one characters/storyline did not have the same connection I don't think it is a coincidence that they were much better received by fans. The safe thing would be to keep expanding the SW universe I think the challenge lies in trying to weave it all together.
Disney thinks having a strong connection to the original stories is pandering, which they don't want to do. They aren't interested in the original fans; they are too old and Disney assumes they will watch regardless. They aren't completely wrong in that regard. But, by spitting in the face of the original, they alienate those fans. It makes no sense and the story they came up with is drivel.
It didn't need to be a direct connection to the original/canon material. But, it should not have completely disconnected to the point of the story now making no sense either.
Rogue One had a direct connection to the original story. It literally ends where A New Hope begins and a CGI Leia is in it.
Disney thinks having a strong connection to the original stories is pandering, which they don't want to do. They aren't interested in the original fans; they are too old and Disney assumes they will watch regardless. They aren't completely wrong in that regard. But, by spitting in the face of the original, they alienate those fans. It makes no sense and the story they came up with is drivel.
It didn't need to be a direct connection to the original/canon material. But, it should not have completely disconnected to the point of the story now making no sense either.
Obviously Rogue One connected to the storyline, but the story itself was almost completely independent and just provided a backstory of how they got there. Which is basically what they are trying to do with Kenobi, but the story can't be independent as they are tasked with tying to the prequels and to the original trilogy. Plus they are using characters that people already know and have a connection with. They had a lot more freedom with Rogue One to do what they wanted without alienating fans.
Personally I am not as offended by a backstory providing context which may change my thoughts about A New Hope but I can see why others would be.
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Rogue One had a direct connection to the original story. It literally ends where A New Hope begins and a CGI Leia is in it.
Disney thinks having a strong connection to the original stories is pandering, which they don't want to do. They aren't interested in the original fans; they are too old and Disney assumes they will watch regardless. They aren't completely wrong in that regard. But, by spitting in the face of the original, they alienate those fans. It makes no sense and the story they came up with is drivel.
It didn't need to be a direct connection to the original/canon material. But, it should not have completely disconnected to the point of the story now making no sense either.
Obviously Rogue One connected to the storyline, but the story itself was almost completely independent and just provided a backstory of how they got there. Which is basically what they are trying to do with Kenobi, but the story can't be independent as they are tasked with tying to the prequels and to the original trilogy. Plus they are using characters that people already know and have a connection with. They had a lot more freedom with Rogue One to do what they wanted without alienating fans.
Personally I am not as offended by a backstory providing context which may change my thoughts about A New Hope but I can see why others would be.
Leia took a leap of faith and so did every other character basically, based on that message. This changes the whole narrative. There was plenty to do here with backstory that didn't involve completely ruining the Star Wars story.
Again, if they don't like the origin characters and story, then don't use them at all. Instead they shit all over them. For example, there is enough material out there where Ob-wan was not wallowing in self-pity and doubt, but training and preparing for Luke, and trying to still act like a Jedi without revealing himself. He didn't leave the planet, which is a major plot point. He didn't reveal if he was alive or dead. He disappeared for nearly 20 years.
Also, Leia's R2 message to Obi Wan still makes sense because she's not pleading for him to help her personally, but to help the rebellion. Obviously Obi Wan would be hesitant to leave Luke (again) and get involved with that - her calling back to his service as a general in the clone wars makes the better case than her calling back to the time he got a lot of innocent people killed while trying to rescue her from capture when she was 10.
And important to note that New Hope isn't for another 9 years in this timeline. It seems reasonable to expect that the events of this series are what spurs Obi Wan to sharpen his skills as a Jedi to be a better protector of Luke and to ultimately train him (we should have a better picture of whether that will be the case the final episode airs). Either way, 9 years is a long time.
I suppose you can nitpick at the line in New Hope where Vader tells Obi Wan when last they met he was the learner and now he's the master. We know now that the last time they met Vader was dragging Obi Wan across a fire as he was attempting to flee. But it doesn't change at all the main point of that line, which was to establish that Vader was once his pupil. It's nitpicking to expect purity between projects that are 40 years apart.
Also, Leia's R2 message to Obi Wan still makes sense because she's not pleading for him to help her personally, but to help the rebellion. Obviously Obi Wan would be hesitant to leave Luke (again) and get involved with that - her calling back to his service as a general in the clone wars makes the better case than her calling back to the time he got a lot of innocent people killed while trying to rescue her from capture when she was 10.
And important to note that New Hope isn't for another 9 years in this timeline. It seems reasonable to expect that the events of this series are what spurs Obi Wan to sharpen his skills as a Jedi to be a better protector of Luke and to ultimately train him (we should have a better picture of whether that will be the case the final episode airs). Either way, 9 years is a long time.
I suppose you can nitpick at the line in New Hope where Vader tells Obi Wan when last they met he was the learner and now he's the master. We know now that the last time they met Vader was dragging Obi Wan across a fire as he was attempting to flee. But it doesn't change at all the main point of that line, which was to establish that Vader was once his pupil. It's nitpicking to expect purity between projects that are 40 years apart.
There's inconsistency between GLs own stories. It's not exactly like SW has ever had a rock solid canon. ObiWan's "from a certain point of view" was fixing a plot hole GL created. Tarkin saying "surely he's dead by now" was because originally the PT events happened much longer before EpIV.
Also, Leia's R2 message to Obi Wan still makes sense because she's not pleading for him to help her personally, but to help the rebellion. Obviously Obi Wan would be hesitant to leave Luke (again) and get involved with that - her calling back to his service as a general in the clone wars makes the better case than her calling back to the time he got a lot of innocent people killed while trying to rescue her from capture when she was 10.
And important to note that New Hope isn't for another 9 years in this timeline. It seems reasonable to expect that the events of this series are what spurs Obi Wan to sharpen his skills as a Jedi to be a better protector of Luke and to ultimately train him (we should have a better picture of whether that will be the case the final episode airs). Either way, 9 years is a long time.
I suppose you can nitpick at the line in New Hope where Vader tells Obi Wan when last they met he was the learner and now he's the master. We know now that the last time they met Vader was dragging Obi Wan across a fire as he was attempting to flee. But it doesn't change at all the main point of that line, which was to establish that Vader was once his pupil. It's nitpicking to expect purity between projects that are 40 years apart.
Also, Leia's R2 message to Obi Wan still makes sense because she's not pleading for him to help her personally, but to help the rebellion. Obviously Obi Wan would be hesitant to leave Luke (again) and get involved with that - her calling back to his service as a general in the clone wars makes the better case than her calling back to the time he got a lot of innocent people killed while trying to rescue her from capture when she was 10.
And important to note that New Hope isn't for another 9 years in this timeline. It seems reasonable to expect that the events of this series are what spurs Obi Wan to sharpen his skills as a Jedi to be a better protector of Luke and to ultimately train him (we should have a better picture of whether that will be the case the final episode airs). Either way, 9 years is a long time.
I suppose you can nitpick at the line in New Hope where Vader tells Obi Wan when last they met he was the learner and now he's the master. We know now that the last time they met Vader was dragging Obi Wan across a fire as he was attempting to flee. But it doesn't change at all the main point of that line, which was to establish that Vader was once his pupil. It's nitpicking to expect purity between projects that are 40 years apart.
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is inconsistent with the events of New Hope. Sure, 10 year-old Leia is somewhat an annoying character because she's sassy and rebellious - but that's clearly by design because the 19 year old version of her is sassy and rebellious. You can argue that it was a poor creative choice to do that with her child version, but her character is the same.
Also, Leia's R2 message to Obi Wan still makes sense because she's not pleading for him to help her personally, but to help the rebellion. Obviously Obi Wan would be hesitant to leave Luke (again) and get involved with that - her calling back to his service as a general in the clone wars makes the better case than her calling back to the time he got a lot of innocent people killed while trying to rescue her from capture when she was 10.
And important to note that New Hope isn't for another 9 years in this timeline. It seems reasonable to expect that the events of this series are what spurs Obi Wan to sharpen his skills as a Jedi to be a better protector of Luke and to ultimately train him (we should have a better picture of whether that will be the case the final episode airs). Either way, 9 years is a long time.
I suppose you can nitpick at the line in New Hope where Vader tells Obi Wan when last they met he was the learner and now he's the master. We know now that the last time they met Vader was dragging Obi Wan across a fire as he was attempting to flee. But it doesn't change at all the main point of that line, which was to establish that Vader was once his pupil. It's nitpicking to expect purity between projects that are 40 years apart.
There's inconsistency between GLs own stories. It's not exactly like SW has ever had a rock solid canon. ObiWan's "from a certain point of view" was fixing a plot hole GL created. Tarkin saying "surely he's dead by now" was because originally the PT events happened much longer before EpIV.
It's a story hamstrung by a known future.
What the hell do you want from them?
Either enjoy it for what it is or just stop watching.
I think it's great. So I'll keep right on enjoying it.
All the hand wringing is just plain stupid.
You would think the fact that their corporate stock has fallen 36.3% over 6 months would tell them something. Nope, deaf ears.
If you think that this is the problem and not the actual poor acting, directing, and writing then I would say that you have a more of an agenda than Disney does.
I told that person that there would be a redemption arc that the character had to go through and in the end, it would make sense. After the finale, I think my prediction was spot on.
People are getting tied up in knots because Obi-wan entered this series as a weak broken man who had fallen away from his Jedi past. If he were a military guy, we would say he was suffering from PTSD and needed to find his reason to go on after the significant trauma of losing his entire way of life, having the Jedi order decimated and his best friend turn into a Sith Lord who betrayed them all. That would crush the spirit of almost anyone.
I think they did an excellent job of having Obi-wan learn that the galaxy didn’t need the Jedi to fight on- but they did need protection from the Empire. Through that journey, he found his reason to go on and rediscover who he was and what his purpose was.
At the end, we see the powerful Jedi Master again emerge- and I won’t spoil the rest for those who have not seen it. But the ending and dialogue brought the story full circle.
There were some silly moments- like Obi-wan getting chased by a Star Destroyer in a shuttle to a planet- but when he leaves the planet- the Star Destroyer is gone. Doesn’t make sense in light of what occurred on the planet, but it doesn’t break the story.
In fact, the finale probably sets the stage for what will come in Ashoka and other related stories from the time period. The rebellion is forming and now Obi-wan knows his role in the galaxy and his purpose.
I thought it was better that for the first time, Obi-wan realized that this wasn’t Anakin anymore- and simply called him “Darth.” Seeing Vader’s temper tantrum afterwards showed that one stung, as Obi-wan was effectively saying he no longer cared and Vader’s taunts couldn’t hurt Obi-wan anymore.
I told that person that there would be a redemption arc that the character had to go through and in the end, it would make sense. After the finale, I think my prediction was spot on.
People are getting tied up in knots because Obi-wan entered this series as a weak broken man who had fallen away from his Jedi past. If he were a military guy, we would say he was suffering from PTSD and needed to find his reason to go on after the significant trauma of losing his entire way of life, having the Jedi order decimated and his best friend turn into a Sith Lord who betrayed them all. That would crush the spirit of almost anyone.
I think they did an excellent job of having Obi-wan learn that the galaxy didn’t need the Jedi to fight on- but they did need protection from the Empire. Through that journey, he found his reason to go on and rediscover who he was and what his purpose was.
At the end, we see the powerful Jedi Master again emerge- and I won’t spoil the rest for those who have not seen it. But the ending and dialogue brought the story full circle.
There were some silly moments- like Obi-wan getting chased by a Star Destroyer in a shuttle to a planet- but when he leaves the planet- the Star Destroyer is gone. Doesn’t make sense in light of what occurred on the planet, but it doesn’t break the story.
In fact, the finale probably sets the stage for what will come in Ashoka and other related stories from the time period. The rebellion is forming and now Obi-wan knows his role in the galaxy and his purpose.
We have one excellent movie (Empire), two great ones (ANH and Rogue 1) and one good one (ROTJ). And one good series - Mandalorian.
The other 7 movies, Boba Fett and Obi Wan are bad or worse.
Maybe the animated kids' shows are good, I don't know, I haven't watched them and don't see myself doing that. There's too much actual good TV to watch elsewhere.
That's precisely how I see it. I maintain to this day that watching The Phantom Menace was the worst experience I've ever had in a theater. I've seen worse movies I'm sure, but not ones that I expected more from or anticipated more.
I never dared watch the other two prequels in their entirety but I've seen various scenes. Maybe it's true that they're not as bad as PM but only by a matter of degrees. From what I saw they have no personality or charisma... their attempts to introduce any just come across as insultingly silly. If they were standalone films and not prequels to some of the most popular films in history, they'd be unanimously shit upon.
The 7th and 8th episodes whose titles I'm not going to bother to remember were an improvement over the prequels, but that's hardly an accomplishment worth celebrating. They certainly weren't as wooden and they had some decent moments, but they still didn't convey the spirit of the originals. I'm only assuming the same is true of the 9th -- why shouldn't I?
what?