along these lines, by what criteria do you judge whether so many of these anti-Jones posts are legitimately noted critiques or simply hatred bordering on obsession. I have read claims here that there are no posters who hate Jones, only deserved criticism. I can't say I'm convinced, nor can I say I understand it except to chalk it up to human nature like so much going on these days.
along these lines, by what criteria do you judge whether so many of these anti-Jones posts are legitimately noted critiques or simply hatred bordering on obsession. I have read claims here that there are no posters who hate Jones, only deserved criticism. I can't say I'm convinced, nor can I say I understand it except to chalk it up to human nature like so much going on these days.
Did you read the article and come away with more information that supported a positive view on Jones?
Is going to prove a lot of people wrong this season
I'm agreeing because Jones "wants it" based on the reports, practices and lifestyle he leads. It isn't like he is just doing enough to keep his employment but he wants to excel. If this staff has the tools to coach him up and health & the OL are finally sustained he will put up good numbers.
along these lines, by what criteria do you judge whether so many of these anti-Jones posts are legitimately noted critiques or simply hatred bordering on obsession. I have read claims here that there are no posters who hate Jones, only deserved criticism. I can't say I'm convinced, nor can I say I understand it except to chalk it up to human nature like so much going on these days.
If these are going to be the types of articles/data used to help support Jones or quiet his critics/haters then it is doing nothing. In actuality, it may even being doing more harm than good on an informed fan site such as this one.
along these lines, by what criteria do you judge whether so many of these anti-Jones posts are legitimately noted critiques or simply hatred bordering on obsession. I have read claims here that there are no posters who hate Jones, only deserved criticism. I can't say I'm convinced, nor can I say I understand it except to chalk it up to human nature like so much going on these days.
Did you read the article and come away with more information that supported a positive view on Jones?
My post had nothing to do with the article it had to do with whether or not the tone of much of the Jones criticizm on this board could be fairly judged as beyond legitimate criticism and into the realm of hatred. IMHO the answer to that is yes, but since there are no hard and fast criteria to make that judgement, it remains just that, a judgement, not totally dissimilar to whether an incompleteion was the fault of the QB or WR.
along these lines, by what criteria do you judge whether so many of these anti-Jones posts are legitimately noted critiques or simply hatred bordering on obsession. I have read claims here that there are no posters who hate Jones, only deserved criticism. I can't say I'm convinced, nor can I say I understand it except to chalk it up to human nature like so much going on these days.
If these are going to be the types of articles/data used to help support Jones or quiet his critics/haters then it is doing nothing. In actuality, it may even being doing more harm than good on an informed fan site such as this one.
Mike, did you glean anything meaningful from it?
Not meaningful so much as interesting. The raw numbers mean little other than provide a modicum of context with respect to where that aspect of our passing game stands relative to the rest of the league. It has obvious flaws such as what if the receiver runs the wrong route? That will look like clearly the QB's fault unless the evaluatot knows for certain what route the WR was supposed to run. So bottom line, nothing particularly meaningful, just modestly interesting in a dead part of the season.
Skill group and a bottom of the barrel oline…both ranked bottom 3 in the league during the tenure by PFF, while PFF graded Jones as Giants most improved player in 2020, and nearly a top 20 qb in 2022. Some of these Giants fans really have it backwards.
Skill group and a bottom of the barrel oline…both ranked bottom 3 in the league during the tenure by PFF, while PFF graded Jones as Giants most improved player in 2020, and nearly a top 20 qb in 2022. Some of these Giants fans really have it backwards.
Criticism of Jones is certainly warrented. But so many here use invectives and insults way beyond criticism and untempered by circumstances. I want to see Jones succeed because using valuable draft or trade capital on a QB, they would be free to continue building the team. If he demonstrates he is not the guy, then we roll the dice on a rookie next year. I would hope we can avoid that for the sake of the team, not for the sake of Jones.
RE: RE: 2 years running with a bottom of the barrel
Skill group and a bottom of the barrel oline…both ranked bottom 3 in the league during the tenure by PFF, while PFF graded Jones as Giants most improved player in 2020, and nearly a top 20 qb in 2022. Some of these Giants fans really have it backwards.
Criticism of Jones is certainly warrented. But so many here use invectives and insults way beyond criticism and untempered by circumstances. I want to see Jones succeed because instead of using valuable draft or trade capital on a QB, they would be free to continue building the team. If he demonstrates he is not the guy, then we roll the dice on a rookie next year. I would hope we can avoid that for the sake of the team, not for the sake of Jones.
I’m always up to learn new information and reconsider my view on the team and the players.
There’s not any new information in this article. There’s actually no information in this article. I read linked article, the article linked there. Then I Google searched for the criteria. This is vapor.
Allegedly PFF has six factors that measure how a pass catcher hurts a QB in addition to drops.
Can anyone tell me what they are? Can anyone tell me what receivers this applied to? Are the worst offenders still on the team?
This article doesn’t further the debate one way or another on Jones. This article is useless.
Capt Obvious. This team needs a talent upgrade everywhere. But good QBs make up for deficiencies all the time. Eli has no running game and mediocre to poor OL in 2011. Simms lost all of his receivers during the 1986 season. Collins was down to Shockey and Toomer in 2002. Now coaching made adjustments but the QB had to make it work.
DJ hasn’t shown he has the ability to do that- yet.
What does that even mean "makes up for deficiencies?" Quantify it instead of making a statement that you don't understand. Quantify it. So are you really quantifying it using 1986????????????????
Dave- go back to sleep. Its obvious your oblivious to football. Senility got to you?
Comparing 1986 to this team? Please stop embarrassing yourself.
You ever hear of Bill Parcells or Joe Morris? If Joe Morris is getting over 1500 yards - you think our OLINe would have been 30th ranked?
wake up Dave! Wake up!! Why do you think we got rid of our coaches, our GM and looking to rebuild our OLINE? Wake up Dave!!!!!
Capt Obvious. This team needs a talent upgrade everywhere. But good QBs make up for deficiencies all the time. Eli has no running game and mediocre to poor OL in 2011. Simms lost all of his receivers during the 1986 season. Collins was down to Shockey and Toomer in 2002. Now coaching made adjustments but the QB had to make it work.
DJ hasn’t shown he has the ability to do that- yet.
What does that even mean "makes up for deficiencies?" Quantify it instead of making a statement that you don't understand. Quantify it. So are you really quantifying it using 1986????????????????
Dave- go back to sleep. Its obvious your oblivious to football. Senility got to you?
Comparing 1986 to this team? Please stop embarrassing yourself.
You ever hear of Bill Parcells or Joe Morris? If Joe Morris is getting over 1500 yards - you think our OLINe would have been 30th ranked?
wake up Dave! Wake up!! Why do you think we got rid of our coaches, our GM and looking to rebuild our OLINE? Wake up Dave!!!!!
Giantsstock, Senility? Poor taste buddy,
Not trying to be a jerk, but dementia is a pretty hideous disease, doesn’t need to be thrown around on a football messaging board
No offense intended.
RE: This is actually getting exciting if you think about it.
Fixed the Offensive Line, healthy Saquon, drafted a new WR and TE, new offensive minded Head Coach, and now analytics like this one to help stop incompletions due to the other receivers. It’s all coming together.
There should be no reason why Daniel Jones doesn’t put up one of the single greatest seasons as a QB in NFL history...
"There should be no reason why Daniel Jones doesn’t put up one of the single greatest seasons as a QB in NFL history..."
Hmmm ... do I detect some hyperbole?.... with a splash (pinch?) of sarcasm?
RE: RE: This is actually getting exciting if you think about it.
Fixed the Offensive Line, healthy Saquon, drafted a new WR and TE, new offensive minded Head Coach, and now analytics like this one to help stop incompletions due to the other receivers. It’s all coming together.
There should be no reason why Daniel Jones doesn’t put up one of the single greatest seasons as a QB in NFL history...
"There should be no reason why Daniel Jones doesn’t put up one of the single greatest seasons as a QB in NFL history..."
Hmmm ... do I detect some hyperbole?.... with a splash (pinch?) of sarcasm?
Maybe a pinch...
RE: RE: RE: This is actually getting exciting if you think about it.
Fixed the Offensive Line, healthy Saquon, drafted a new WR and TE, new offensive minded Head Coach, and now analytics like this one to help stop incompletions due to the other receivers. It’s all coming together.
There should be no reason why Daniel Jones doesn’t put up one of the single greatest seasons as a QB in NFL history...
"There should be no reason why Daniel Jones doesn’t put up one of the single greatest seasons as a QB in NFL history..."
Hmmm ... do I detect some hyperbole?.... with a splash (pinch?) of sarcasm?
Maybe a pinch...
I actually thought it was more of a splash but, your delivery and presentation was perfectly subtle and so upon further review (reflection) it could not have been a splash. A pinch was the only solid choice. Well done Sir!
Did you read the article and come away with more information that supported a positive view on Jones?
If these are going to be the types of articles/data used to help support Jones or quiet his critics/haters then it is doing nothing. In actuality, it may even being doing more harm than good on an informed fan site such as this one.
Mike, did you glean anything meaningful from it?
Quote:
along these lines, by what criteria do you judge whether so many of these anti-Jones posts are legitimately noted critiques or simply hatred bordering on obsession. I have read claims here that there are no posters who hate Jones, only deserved criticism. I can't say I'm convinced, nor can I say I understand it except to chalk it up to human nature like so much going on these days.
Did you read the article and come away with more information that supported a positive view on Jones?
My post had nothing to do with the article it had to do with whether or not the tone of much of the Jones criticizm on this board could be fairly judged as beyond legitimate criticism and into the realm of hatred. IMHO the answer to that is yes, but since there are no hard and fast criteria to make that judgement, it remains just that, a judgement, not totally dissimilar to whether an incompleteion was the fault of the QB or WR.
Which ones joeinpa?
Jones has his own shit to work on like actually seeing the field and making decisions faster.
Quote:
along these lines, by what criteria do you judge whether so many of these anti-Jones posts are legitimately noted critiques or simply hatred bordering on obsession. I have read claims here that there are no posters who hate Jones, only deserved criticism. I can't say I'm convinced, nor can I say I understand it except to chalk it up to human nature like so much going on these days.
If these are going to be the types of articles/data used to help support Jones or quiet his critics/haters then it is doing nothing. In actuality, it may even being doing more harm than good on an informed fan site such as this one.
Mike, did you glean anything meaningful from it?
Not meaningful so much as interesting. The raw numbers mean little other than provide a modicum of context with respect to where that aspect of our passing game stands relative to the rest of the league. It has obvious flaws such as what if the receiver runs the wrong route? That will look like clearly the QB's fault unless the evaluatot knows for certain what route the WR was supposed to run. So bottom line, nothing particularly meaningful, just modestly interesting in a dead part of the season.
Criticism of Jones is certainly warrented. But so many here use invectives and insults way beyond criticism and untempered by circumstances. I want to see Jones succeed because using valuable draft or trade capital on a QB, they would be free to continue building the team. If he demonstrates he is not the guy, then we roll the dice on a rookie next year. I would hope we can avoid that for the sake of the team, not for the sake of Jones.
Quote:
Skill group and a bottom of the barrel oline…both ranked bottom 3 in the league during the tenure by PFF, while PFF graded Jones as Giants most improved player in 2020, and nearly a top 20 qb in 2022. Some of these Giants fans really have it backwards.
Criticism of Jones is certainly warrented. But so many here use invectives and insults way beyond criticism and untempered by circumstances. I want to see Jones succeed because instead of using valuable draft or trade capital on a QB, they would be free to continue building the team. If he demonstrates he is not the guy, then we roll the dice on a rookie next year. I would hope we can avoid that for the sake of the team, not for the sake of Jones.
Quote:
Is going to prove a lot of people wrong this season
Which ones joeinpa?
Lol was wondering if anyone would catch that.
I m hoping it s not me
Quote:
In comment 15736228 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Is going to prove a lot of people wrong this season
Which ones joeinpa?
Lol was wondering if anyone would catch that.
I m hoping it s not me
Figured you were playing around some here.
LOL! Cue the music send in the hating clowns!!
There’s not any new information in this article. There’s actually no information in this article. I read linked article, the article linked there. Then I Google searched for the criteria. This is vapor.
Allegedly PFF has six factors that measure how a pass catcher hurts a QB in addition to drops.
Can anyone tell me what they are? Can anyone tell me what receivers this applied to? Are the worst offenders still on the team?
This article doesn’t further the debate one way or another on Jones. This article is useless.
DJ hasn’t shown he has the ability to do that- yet.
What does that even mean "makes up for deficiencies?" Quantify it instead of making a statement that you don't understand. Quantify it. So are you really quantifying it using 1986????????????????
Dave- go back to sleep. Its obvious your oblivious to football. Senility got to you?
Comparing 1986 to this team? Please stop embarrassing yourself.
You ever hear of Bill Parcells or Joe Morris? If Joe Morris is getting over 1500 yards - you think our OLINe would have been 30th ranked?
wake up Dave! Wake up!! Why do you think we got rid of our coaches, our GM and looking to rebuild our OLINE? Wake up Dave!!!!!
Quote:
Capt Obvious. This team needs a talent upgrade everywhere. But good QBs make up for deficiencies all the time. Eli has no running game and mediocre to poor OL in 2011. Simms lost all of his receivers during the 1986 season. Collins was down to Shockey and Toomer in 2002. Now coaching made adjustments but the QB had to make it work.
DJ hasn’t shown he has the ability to do that- yet.
What does that even mean "makes up for deficiencies?" Quantify it instead of making a statement that you don't understand. Quantify it. So are you really quantifying it using 1986????????????????
Dave- go back to sleep. Its obvious your oblivious to football. Senility got to you?
Comparing 1986 to this team? Please stop embarrassing yourself.
You ever hear of Bill Parcells or Joe Morris? If Joe Morris is getting over 1500 yards - you think our OLINe would have been 30th ranked?
wake up Dave! Wake up!! Why do you think we got rid of our coaches, our GM and looking to rebuild our OLINE? Wake up Dave!!!!!
Giantsstock, Senility? Poor taste buddy,
Not trying to be a jerk, but dementia is a pretty hideous disease, doesn’t need to be thrown around on a football messaging board
No offense intended.
There should be no reason why Daniel Jones doesn’t put up one of the single greatest seasons as a QB in NFL history...
"There should be no reason why Daniel Jones doesn’t put up one of the single greatest seasons as a QB in NFL history..."
Hmmm ... do I detect some hyperbole?.... with a splash (pinch?) of sarcasm?
Quote:
Fixed the Offensive Line, healthy Saquon, drafted a new WR and TE, new offensive minded Head Coach, and now analytics like this one to help stop incompletions due to the other receivers. It’s all coming together.
There should be no reason why Daniel Jones doesn’t put up one of the single greatest seasons as a QB in NFL history...
"There should be no reason why Daniel Jones doesn’t put up one of the single greatest seasons as a QB in NFL history..."
Hmmm ... do I detect some hyperbole?.... with a splash (pinch?) of sarcasm?
Maybe a pinch...
Quote:
In comment 15735625 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Fixed the Offensive Line, healthy Saquon, drafted a new WR and TE, new offensive minded Head Coach, and now analytics like this one to help stop incompletions due to the other receivers. It’s all coming together.
There should be no reason why Daniel Jones doesn’t put up one of the single greatest seasons as a QB in NFL history...
"There should be no reason why Daniel Jones doesn’t put up one of the single greatest seasons as a QB in NFL history..."
Hmmm ... do I detect some hyperbole?.... with a splash (pinch?) of sarcasm?
Maybe a pinch...
I actually thought it was more of a splash but, your delivery and presentation was perfectly subtle and so upon further review (reflection) it could not have been a splash. A pinch was the only solid choice. Well done Sir!