but athletically he certainly has upside. the olb competition for the 4th/5th spots should be one of the best in camp between Smith, Roche, Brown, etc. even Lalos is interesting enough to maybe stick on PS.
but athletically he certainly has upside. the olb competition for the 4th/5th spots should be one of the best in camp between Smith, Roche, Brown, etc. even Lalos is interesting enough to maybe stick on PS.
I was absolutely thrilled to land Elerson Smith last year in the 4th round. We all knew that he was raw coming out so I expected him to redshirt last season. Then he fell even farther behind after missing training camp and half the season.
He is one of the players I am most excited to see this training camp and preseason. He could be a very valuable rotational piece for the Giants. Hopefully the Giants new OLB corps will become the best group since the days of Strahan, Umenyiora, Tuck, and Kiwanuka.
the article this morning I felt it unfairly portrayed him as a wasted pick, and a guy who was lucky to be getting a "second chance," as if he had blown a first one. He hadn't played in 2000, and was widely expected to need at least a year of development before he could make a contribution to the Giants. Yet even after getting hurt in training camp, he was able to contribute in the last four or five games and showed signs he could be effective. To imply the new regime was going to just cast him aside was pretty shortsighted by Schwartz.
Summary: Fifth year senior from Minneapolis, Minnesota. One-year starter that had his senior season canceled because of the Covid-19 pandemic. 1st Team All Missouri Valley Conference and 1st Team AFCA FCS All American in 2019. Smith broke out in his redshirt junior season, netting 21.5 tackles for loss, 14 sacks, 5 forced fumbles, and 2 blocked kicks. He plays the game with a level of ease and smoothness in traffic. He gets off the ball in a hurry with great leverage and upper body positioning, his hands are exceptionally fast, and the foot quickness is elite. Smith is just scratching the surface when it comes to his true potential. He needs to sleep in the weight room for a year before he can be an every down asset, but he will be a solid rotational pass rusher right away and has the upside of being a solid starter in multiple schemes.
*If you haven’t seen Northern Iowa play but you want to get a feel for what this kid looks like on the field, think about Jayson Taylor. He has the really long, borderline thin frame but plays with tremendous burst and bend for a player his size. Smith impressed me a ton at the Senior Bowl in the practice tapes. Really twitchy, plays low to the ground, and easily changes direction. His 2019 tape is something else, too. Good player here that may need more time than others but presents more upside than most guys in this tier.
regime. This kid has talent, and I think this is the coaching staff to bring it out in him, and other players too.
Come on, be realistic. The kid was a 4th rounder who was hurt in training camp and missed the first 10 weeks of the season. And because of the hamstring injury he was likely limited in what work he could accomplish to strengthen his lower body. Yet he still played in 8 games and showed glimpses of the potential the previous regime saw in him. How many 4th rounders contribute much in their first year. He's added somewhere between 10 and 15 pounds of muscle. The goal when they drafted him was to get him stronger to contribute down the road. How exactly was he "not developed properly"?
but athletically he certainly has upside. the olb competition for the 4th/5th spots should be one of the best in camp between Smith, Roche, Brown, etc. even Lalos is interesting enough to maybe stick on PS.
I usually agree with you but I'd be shocked if he's not on the 53. He's big young cheap and athletic. My complete opposite.
RE: RE: caveat - i think it's 50/50 elerson smith makes the 53
but athletically he certainly has upside. the olb competition for the 4th/5th spots should be one of the best in camp between Smith, Roche, Brown, etc. even Lalos is interesting enough to maybe stick on PS.
I usually agree with you but I'd be shocked if he's not on the 53. He's big young cheap and athletic. My complete opposite.
i wouldn't be shocked either way because it's just a numbers game even with ximines 1 foot out the door. smith checks the athletic boxes but it's a big step up in comp and though it's not his fault he hasn't played much football in 3 years. he actually did more last year than i expected but it wasn't as much as roche who very much fits the BAL style OLB. if they keep 5 OLBs they could choose to keep someone like cam brown who is a bigger contributor on specials. or shift coughlin back to the edge where he flashed in 2020 since they drafted 2 LBs this year better suited to off ball work than him.
if smith hits he's probably got the most upside of that group but also probably the most risky to be a bust.
RE: RE: caveat - i think it's 50/50 elerson smith makes the 53
but athletically he certainly has upside. the olb competition for the 4th/5th spots should be one of the best in camp between Smith, Roche, Brown, etc. even Lalos is interesting enough to maybe stick on PS.
I usually agree with you but I'd be shocked if he's not on the 53. He's big young cheap and athletic. My complete opposite.
And he's been flashing throughout the offseason. It's not just he's a higher pick... he's performing thus far.
minicamp performance for trench players is basically meaningless
it's notable that they are giving him the reps he's getting in terms of depth chart so clearly they see ability in him but nobody knows what kind of football player he is. his 100 snaps last year were the first since 2019 which was pretty much the only extended playing time on a field football of his career. in 60 pass rushing snaps last year he had 1 hurry and 0 sacks.
the "2nd chance" comment by Schwartz is completely stupid but last year as expected was basically a red shirt year for a player who was/is largely an unknown quantity on the field.
he has to be able to stay on the field to be of any consequence
Absolutely! Health is key always. So many talented guys never make it out of college much less success in the NFL cause injuries always kept them from growing. Football is a brutal sport. I often wonder if flexibility training like Piilates, Yoga and the like wouldn't help?
but athletically he certainly has upside. the olb competition for the 4th/5th spots should be one of the best in camp between Smith, Roche, Brown, etc. even Lalos is interesting enough to maybe stick on PS.
Eric, the question for me ever since he was drafted has been is he thick enough, powerful enough, to withstand and beat the mix master at the edge. Klaatu was kind enough to re-post Sy's write up on ES coming out (bold face mine on the points that stuck with me since his write up):
Quote:
Smith is just scratching the surface when it comes to his true potential. He needs to sleep in the weight room for a year before he can be an every down asset, but he will be a solid rotational pass rusher right away and has the upside of being a solid starter in multiple schemes.
*If you haven’t seen Northern Iowa play but you want to get a feel for what this kid looks like on the field, think about Jayson Taylor. He has the really long, borderline thin frame but plays with tremendous burst and bend for a player his size. Smith impressed me a ton at the Senior Bowl in the practice tapes. Really twitchy, plays low to the ground, and easily changes direction.
His frame is really long and thin and will be, I would think, a target for blocks and bodies low. Gotta see if he can be seen to neutralize that in camp.
He’s more likely to make it than most of the guys he’s competing with. But once you add up the field, plus the possibility of a late acquisition, his hold on one of the spots behind Thibodeaux and Ojulari could be tenuous.
FWIW, I think Smith is helped by the fact that many of the other potential second-level guys - Brown, Coughlin, McFadden, Beavers - are more LB than EDGE. Meanwhile, Jihad Ward is a utility front-seven player: listed as an OLB, but big enough to play 5- or 3-technique and likely to put his hand in the dirt a lot.
Unless the team allocates fewer slots to pass rushers that I expect, Smith can make the team without beating out Roche. He just can’t fall behind both Roche and Ximines (or a subsequent addition).
ramses barden was a physically talented prospect from low competition level who looked great in practice but wasn't good enough in games. that's not an uncommon thing. corey ballentine was another more recent NFL level athlete that couldn't hold up against NFL level players.
in part due to covid, comp level, and injuries smith just hasn't been on the field against NFL level players. he's an NFL level athlete but a total unknown beyond that.
that's less so the case with players he's possibly competing with like Roche, Brown, and Coughlin who played p5. he probably has the highest odds of making it in the group but if i had to bet on him or the field i think id take the field.
Ellerson has a stronger chance of making the 53-man
… by the involuntary departure of the crew that drafted him. Buffalo and Baltimore may not have graded him that highly, and he didn’t secure his spot with his play last year. It’s not as though being drafted in the fourth round by the Giants has been much of a credential the past 15 years.
At the Senior Bowl, Smith seems to have impressed Coach Patterson, who also remembered Smith from Minneapolis, where Patterson worked when Smith was in high school. The connections are tenuous, though. Smith is basically facing an open audition.
I hope Sy’56 is right, and Elerson Smith just needed time to grow and learn. There simply isn’t a lot to go on.
… by the involuntary departure of the crew that drafted him. Buffalo and Baltimore may not have graded him that highly, and he didn’t secure his spot with his play last year. It’s not as though being drafted in the fourth round by the Giants has been much of a credential the past 15 years.
At the Senior Bowl, Smith seems to have impressed Coach Patterson, who also remembered Smith from Minneapolis, where Patterson worked when Smith was in high school. The connections are tenuous, though. Smith is basically facing an open audition.
I hope Sy’56 is right, and Elerson Smith just needed time to grow and learn. There simply isn’t a lot to go on.
But maybe Buffalo and Balt did grade him similarly.
Gettleman was a moron but maybe Smith is one of the few exceptions to this general rule...
I wonder how our current management team graded him last year
It would have been nice if the writer bothered to research that question.
In fact it would be nice to know how the rest of the league graded Smith last draft.
The Bills drafted Gregory Rousseau in the 1st Round, and Carlos Basham, Jr. in the 2nd, both of whom were considered better prospects than Smith by Sy'56, among others.
The Ravens drafted Odafe Oweh in the 1st, another prospect rated and higher than Smith (and the guy I wanted after the trade down, by the way)
he hasn't sacked anyone playing live football since 2019 and at that point he was 20-40 pounds lighter playing against a bunch of guys who went pro in something other than football. he may have enormous athletic upside but he's a lot closer to being the Roy Mbaeteka of the defense than most seem willing to acknowledge.
Quincy Roche was taken only l00 picks later by Pitt but got a few starts and had a few sacks last year, including the sack/ff against LV that won the game against Kolton Miller.
Carter Coughlin made some similarly flashy plays as a rookie in 2020 specifically in the win at Seattle.
Ximines has been invisible since 2019 also so ill skip him.
Cam Brown is a good special teamer/gunner.
Who knows if Beavers ends up playing some on the outside, he has the size.
The odds are against them but even Tomon Fox and Niko Lalos have a chance.
it's just one of the more competitive positions on the team so calling any of the guys beyond the top 3 roster locks seems presumptuous right now. i'd bet the field vs. any 1 of them.
Eric, my post was an attempt to answer Chicago Marty's question.
Not to assess Smith's chances to make the team vs. his competition.
i wasn't responding directly to your post just the overall sentiment. i think even the coaches would say evaluating a player like Smith is impossible until you see them in game against live opponents.
Roche did get 2.5 sacks, but he played in 14 games with 3 starts, and had 401 defensive snaps (42%). He racked up 5 QB hits. He also played 109 ST snaps (30%)
Smith got no sacks, but he played in only 8 games with no starts, and had 107 defensive snaps (19%), He racked up 2 QB hits. He also played 94 ST snaps (46%)
Each had one FF.
It's unfortunate that Smith missed almost all of training camp with a hamstring injury and began the season on IR, costing him the first 8 games of the season. It's also unfortunate that he suffered a neck injury in January and went on IR again. No doubt Smith's hamstring injury prompted the Giants to claim Roche off of waivers after the Steelers let him go.
Well, it seems that turnabout is fair play, since Roche has been sidelined in the Spring (I'm not sure why) and Smith has been seeing time with the 1st and 2nd teams. I don't put much stock in what happens in the Spring, so we'll see what transpires over the Summer, but I'd certainly give him a better than 50/50 chance of making the team.
Roche did get 2.5 sacks, but he played in 14 games with 3 starts, and had 401 defensive snaps (42%). He racked up 5 QB hits. He also played 109 ST snaps (30%)
Smith got no sacks, but he played in only 8 games with no starts, and had 107 defensive snaps (19%), He racked up 2 QB hits. He also played 94 ST snaps (46%)
Each had one FF.
It's unfortunate that Smith missed almost all of training camp with a hamstring injury and began the season on IR, costing him the first 8 games of the season. It's also unfortunate that he suffered a neck injury in January and went on IR again. No doubt Smith's hamstring injury prompted the Giants to claim Roche off of waivers after the Steelers let him go.
Well, it seems that turnabout is fair play, since Roche has been sidelined in the Spring (I'm not sure why) and Smith has been seeing time with the 1st and 2nd teams. I don't put much stock in what happens in the Spring, so we'll see what transpires over the Summer, but I'd certainly give him a better than 50/50 chance of making the team.
the biggest unknown for roster purposes right now is not knowing how many will make it. last year's raven's 53 had 4 ILBs and 5 OLBs.
we know there are 3 OLB locks and probably 3 ILB locks between Martinez and the 2 draft picks, though Beavers could have the flexibility to play both ILB/OLB.
I agree he'll be on the team. The question, for roster allocation purposes, is whether to count him as OLB, DL, or some sort of hybrid. He's nearly the size of Leonard Williams, and might be as good an option as the putative backup, Jalyn Holmes, to step in if Williams were injured. So there's some flexibility if a spot were needed for another true EDGE.
RE: Eric on LI: I think Jihad Ward is one of your OLB 'locks'.
I agree he'll be on the team. The question, for roster allocation purposes, is whether to count him as OLB, DL, or some sort of hybrid. He's nearly the size of Leonard Williams, and might be as good an option as the putative backup, Jalyn Holmes, to step in if Williams were injured. So there's some flexibility if a spot were needed for another true EDGE.
that's possible - BAL kept 5 DL on the initial 53. Williams, Lawrence, Jelly, Davidson are likely 4/5. It's possible Ward is #5 or Holmes/Moa/UDFA.
i'd guess practically Ward at least gives them the flexibility that they can choose whoever they think is the better player between #5 DL vs. #6 OLB if one performs better. If Elerson Smith can play to his size and handle some DL reps it would be an advantage over the rest of the OLBs too.
I was absolutely thrilled to land Elerson Smith last year in the 4th round. We all knew that he was raw coming out so I expected him to redshirt last season. Then he fell even farther behind after missing training camp and half the season.
He is one of the players I am most excited to see this training camp and preseason. He could be a very valuable rotational piece for the Giants. Hopefully the Giants new OLB corps will become the best group since the days of Strahan, Umenyiora, Tuck, and Kiwanuka.
Grade: 77
Summary: Fifth year senior from Minneapolis, Minnesota. One-year starter that had his senior season canceled because of the Covid-19 pandemic. 1st Team All Missouri Valley Conference and 1st Team AFCA FCS All American in 2019. Smith broke out in his redshirt junior season, netting 21.5 tackles for loss, 14 sacks, 5 forced fumbles, and 2 blocked kicks. He plays the game with a level of ease and smoothness in traffic. He gets off the ball in a hurry with great leverage and upper body positioning, his hands are exceptionally fast, and the foot quickness is elite. Smith is just scratching the surface when it comes to his true potential. He needs to sleep in the weight room for a year before he can be an every down asset, but he will be a solid rotational pass rusher right away and has the upside of being a solid starter in multiple schemes.
*If you haven’t seen Northern Iowa play but you want to get a feel for what this kid looks like on the field, think about Jayson Taylor. He has the really long, borderline thin frame but plays with tremendous burst and bend for a player his size. Smith impressed me a ton at the Senior Bowl in the practice tapes. Really twitchy, plays low to the ground, and easily changes direction. His 2019 tape is something else, too. Good player here that may need more time than others but presents more upside than most guys in this tier.
Come on, be realistic. The kid was a 4th rounder who was hurt in training camp and missed the first 10 weeks of the season. And because of the hamstring injury he was likely limited in what work he could accomplish to strengthen his lower body. Yet he still played in 8 games and showed glimpses of the potential the previous regime saw in him. How many 4th rounders contribute much in their first year. He's added somewhere between 10 and 15 pounds of muscle. The goal when they drafted him was to get him stronger to contribute down the road. How exactly was he "not developed properly"?
Article says second chance "to make a first impression".
Quote:
but athletically he certainly has upside. the olb competition for the 4th/5th spots should be one of the best in camp between Smith, Roche, Brown, etc. even Lalos is interesting enough to maybe stick on PS.
I usually agree with you but I'd be shocked if he's not on the 53. He's big young cheap and athletic. My complete opposite.
i wouldn't be shocked either way because it's just a numbers game even with ximines 1 foot out the door. smith checks the athletic boxes but it's a big step up in comp and though it's not his fault he hasn't played much football in 3 years. he actually did more last year than i expected but it wasn't as much as roche who very much fits the BAL style OLB. if they keep 5 OLBs they could choose to keep someone like cam brown who is a bigger contributor on specials. or shift coughlin back to the edge where he flashed in 2020 since they drafted 2 LBs this year better suited to off ball work than him.
if smith hits he's probably got the most upside of that group but also probably the most risky to be a bust.
Quote:
but athletically he certainly has upside. the olb competition for the 4th/5th spots should be one of the best in camp between Smith, Roche, Brown, etc. even Lalos is interesting enough to maybe stick on PS.
I usually agree with you but I'd be shocked if he's not on the 53. He's big young cheap and athletic. My complete opposite.
And he's been flashing throughout the offseason. It's not just he's a higher pick... he's performing thus far.
the "2nd chance" comment by Schwartz is completely stupid but last year as expected was basically a red shirt year for a player who was/is largely an unknown quantity on the field.
Eric, the question for me ever since he was drafted has been is he thick enough, powerful enough, to withstand and beat the mix master at the edge. Klaatu was kind enough to re-post Sy's write up on ES coming out (bold face mine on the points that stuck with me since his write up):
*If you haven’t seen Northern Iowa play but you want to get a feel for what this kid looks like on the field, think about Jayson Taylor. He has the really long, borderline thin frame but plays with tremendous burst and bend for a player his size. Smith impressed me a ton at the Senior Bowl in the practice tapes. Really twitchy, plays low to the ground, and easily changes direction.
His frame is really long and thin and will be, I would think, a target for blocks and bodies low. Gotta see if he can be seen to neutralize that in camp.
FWIW, I think Smith is helped by the fact that many of the other potential second-level guys - Brown, Coughlin, McFadden, Beavers - are more LB than EDGE. Meanwhile, Jihad Ward is a utility front-seven player: listed as an OLB, but big enough to play 5- or 3-technique and likely to put his hand in the dirt a lot.
Unless the team allocates fewer slots to pass rushers that I expect, Smith can make the team without beating out Roche. He just can’t fall behind both Roche and Ximines (or a subsequent addition).
in part due to covid, comp level, and injuries smith just hasn't been on the field against NFL level players. he's an NFL level athlete but a total unknown beyond that.
that's less so the case with players he's possibly competing with like Roche, Brown, and Coughlin who played p5. he probably has the highest odds of making it in the group but if i had to bet on him or the field i think id take the field.
Look at the current depth chart again. Most of his competition will basically cut themselves when they start really practicing/scrimmaging...
At the Senior Bowl, Smith seems to have impressed Coach Patterson, who also remembered Smith from Minneapolis, where Patterson worked when Smith was in high school. The connections are tenuous, though. Smith is basically facing an open audition.
I hope Sy’56 is right, and Elerson Smith just needed time to grow and learn. There simply isn’t a lot to go on.
It would have been nice if the writer bothered to research that question.
In fact it would be nice to know how the rest of the league graded Smith last draft.
At the Senior Bowl, Smith seems to have impressed Coach Patterson, who also remembered Smith from Minneapolis, where Patterson worked when Smith was in high school. The connections are tenuous, though. Smith is basically facing an open audition.
I hope Sy’56 is right, and Elerson Smith just needed time to grow and learn. There simply isn’t a lot to go on.
But maybe Buffalo and Balt did grade him similarly.
Gettleman was a moron but maybe Smith is one of the few exceptions to this general rule...
It would have been nice if the writer bothered to research that question.
In fact it would be nice to know how the rest of the league graded Smith last draft.
The Bills drafted Gregory Rousseau in the 1st Round, and Carlos Basham, Jr. in the 2nd, both of whom were considered better prospects than Smith by Sy'56, among others.
The Ravens drafted Odafe Oweh in the 1st, another prospect rated and higher than Smith (and the guy I wanted after the trade down, by the way)
FWIW, NFL.com projected Smith to go in Rds 4-5.
Quote:
He is in year 2 of his career and was a day 3 pick....
Article says second chance "to make a first impression".
Maybe it's this third attempt top have a second chance to make a first impression...
Quincy Roche was taken only l00 picks later by Pitt but got a few starts and had a few sacks last year, including the sack/ff against LV that won the game against Kolton Miller.
Carter Coughlin made some similarly flashy plays as a rookie in 2020 specifically in the win at Seattle.
Ximines has been invisible since 2019 also so ill skip him.
Cam Brown is a good special teamer/gunner.
Who knows if Beavers ends up playing some on the outside, he has the size.
The odds are against them but even Tomon Fox and Niko Lalos have a chance.
it's just one of the more competitive positions on the team so calling any of the guys beyond the top 3 roster locks seems presumptuous right now. i'd bet the field vs. any 1 of them.
i wasn't responding directly to your post just the overall sentiment. i think even the coaches would say evaluating a player like Smith is impossible until you see them in game against live opponents.
Smith got no sacks, but he played in only 8 games with no starts, and had 107 defensive snaps (19%), He racked up 2 QB hits. He also played 94 ST snaps (46%)
Each had one FF.
It's unfortunate that Smith missed almost all of training camp with a hamstring injury and began the season on IR, costing him the first 8 games of the season. It's also unfortunate that he suffered a neck injury in January and went on IR again. No doubt Smith's hamstring injury prompted the Giants to claim Roche off of waivers after the Steelers let him go.
Well, it seems that turnabout is fair play, since Roche has been sidelined in the Spring (I'm not sure why) and Smith has been seeing time with the 1st and 2nd teams. I don't put much stock in what happens in the Spring, so we'll see what transpires over the Summer, but I'd certainly give him a better than 50/50 chance of making the team.
Smith got no sacks, but he played in only 8 games with no starts, and had 107 defensive snaps (19%), He racked up 2 QB hits. He also played 94 ST snaps (46%)
Each had one FF.
It's unfortunate that Smith missed almost all of training camp with a hamstring injury and began the season on IR, costing him the first 8 games of the season. It's also unfortunate that he suffered a neck injury in January and went on IR again. No doubt Smith's hamstring injury prompted the Giants to claim Roche off of waivers after the Steelers let him go.
Well, it seems that turnabout is fair play, since Roche has been sidelined in the Spring (I'm not sure why) and Smith has been seeing time with the 1st and 2nd teams. I don't put much stock in what happens in the Spring, so we'll see what transpires over the Summer, but I'd certainly give him a better than 50/50 chance of making the team.
the biggest unknown for roster purposes right now is not knowing how many will make it. last year's raven's 53 had 4 ILBs and 5 OLBs.
we know there are 3 OLB locks and probably 3 ILB locks between Martinez and the 2 draft picks, though Beavers could have the flexibility to play both ILB/OLB.
That would leave 3 spots for Crowder, Coughlin, Brown, Smith, Roche, Ximines, Fox, Lalos, etc. Should be one of the better competitions on the roster.
https://www.si.com/nfl/ravens/news/the-ravens-53-man-roster - ( New Window )
that's possible - BAL kept 5 DL on the initial 53. Williams, Lawrence, Jelly, Davidson are likely 4/5. It's possible Ward is #5 or Holmes/Moa/UDFA.
i'd guess practically Ward at least gives them the flexibility that they can choose whoever they think is the better player between #5 DL vs. #6 OLB if one performs better. If Elerson Smith can play to his size and handle some DL reps it would be an advantage over the rest of the OLBs too.