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NFT: Electric Vehicles

JoeyBigBlue : 6/20/2022 9:48 am
With gas prices soaring to $5.00 and above, what are your thoughts on electric vehicles. Are the 300 mile current range vehicles enough for you? Would you wait for something to approach 600 miles before buying? What are your thoughts? My wife and I live 30-40 miles from work and are spending $120 to $200 each weekly on gas. As you can see the EV option is looking really right now.
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Electric?  
redwhiteandbigblue : 6/20/2022 10:55 am : link
Nah. Besides being a"car guy" who still likes naturally aspirated engines over turbo, etc., If you do not own a house (I own a townhouse) or if you rent, charging is almost impossible. Go to a charging station 2x a week? Wait on a line and THEN wait 45 minutes or more to charge? No thanks. The argument about wasting time at a gas station each week is a joke for those of us living in condos, townhouses or apartments. I spend maybe 10 minutes a week at a gas station. I also drive 100 miles round trip for work each day.

As stated in other posts, it's a lifestyle decision as to whether or not it meets your needs. I am all for cleaning up the environment but for my current lifestyle, not for me.
RE: Electric?  
moze1021 : 6/20/2022 11:08 am : link
In comment 15736088 redwhiteandbigblue said:
Quote:
Nah. Besides being a"car guy" who still likes naturally aspirated engines over turbo, etc., If you do not own a house (I own a townhouse) or if you rent, charging is almost impossible. Go to a charging station 2x a week? Wait on a line and THEN wait 45 minutes or more to charge? No thanks. The argument about wasting time at a gas station each week is a joke for those of us living in condos, townhouses or apartments. I spend maybe 10 minutes a week at a gas station. I also drive 100 miles round trip for work each day.

As stated in other posts, it's a lifestyle decision as to whether or not it meets your needs. I am all for cleaning up the environment but for my current lifestyle, not for me.


Yeah this is what I was alluding to in my post earlier when I said: "Other consideration (and this one is more restrictive) is the need to be able to access 240V charging at home. That makes a huge huge difference in flexibility."

If you can't have 240V charge at home, the convenience factor of EV is thrown out.

So if you aren't in market for a luxury car or if you drive >200 miles per day or if you don't have ability to have a fast charger at home, then a bEV is not for you right now.

I have an EV  
Gman11 : 6/20/2022 11:32 am : link
standard range battery and AWD. Rated at 211 miles per charge. I drive about 75 miles per day to get to where I need to go. Range is not a problem. In the winter the range dips to about 185.

The car is great. It has features of a luxury car, performance of a sports car. That's why I bought it.

I would not buy an EV because of the price of gas though. EVs are expensive to buy. You would have to own it a long time to justify the gas savings.
How long will the battery last  
Arkbach : 6/20/2022 11:33 am : link
before it needs to be replaced? I've read replacement batteries run $3-5K depending on the vehicle and will require replacement <5 years. Not good if you purchase. Lessees don't care.
I never go to a gas station  
Tom in DC : 6/20/2022 11:36 am : link
other than to occasionally fill my wife's car. I own a house but don't have a 240V charger mostly because my work offers 240V charging. In a pinch, I can charge overnight on 120V and get ~40 miles of range which is enough to get me to work.

Right now choosing an EV is based on a lot of factors and I agree with many of the points here. If you are a two car family and can place the 240V charger in your garage or driveway it may make sense have one of your cars be an EV.

I work for an EV manufacturer and have owned an EV for 4 years. Range anxiety is real in the sense that you feel anxiety but I have never run out of charge. However my work does offer 240V charging, there are a couple high speed chargers available in town, and I can charge on 120V at night if I am desperate.
I purchased a compromise  
gidiefor : Mod : 6/20/2022 11:39 am : link
plug in hybrid -- the Rav4 Prime -- and I love it -- it is sporty, peppy and fun to drive -- the battery gets 40-60 miles per charge depending on weather and conditions. When the battery is used up it switches to gas. I am getting the equivalent of 80 mile/gallon -- I just hit 8,000 miles after 6 months of use and I've been to the gas station exactly 8 times during that time. On longer trips I use the road to re-charge the battery.

Great and very practical car -- and I received a $7500 tax credit for purchasing it
Lotsa of charging stations will be put in service within 5 yrs  
Payasdaddy : 6/20/2022 11:42 am : link
Infrastructure deal allocated 7.5 billion to it. Will help some, probably need 10x the investment
Lotsa new batteries being developed
Quantumscape solid state battery keeps hitting milestones, but lotsa testing still needs to be done. They have aced everyone so far. Ceramic “ forever battery” that charges much quicker
Not a plug to go buy it, stock down 90% because it got hyped to death. But interesting one to keep tabs on. Funded for another couple yrs, VW invested heavily in it. 4 OEMs waiting on samples in 2023. Still has 3 billion market cap.
If you have solar, EVs could make sense. But I am not buying one because gas is high
Wouldn’t mind a Lucid in 5 yrs if price was down to 60k. ( still too expensive for me, never spent more than 35k on car. Just can’t see the point)
RE: How long will the battery last  
Jim in Fairfax : 6/20/2022 11:46 am : link
In comment 15736127 Arkbach said:
Quote:
before it needs to be replaced? I've read replacement batteries run $3-5K depending on the vehicle and will require replacement <5 years. Not good if you purchase. Lessees don't care.

I believe every electric car maker is providing a warranty on the batteries of, at minimum, 8 years/100,000 miles.
I have a Model 3, but I am upgrading that to a Y  
Ben in Tampa : 6/20/2022 11:49 am : link
once stock is available. Current estimate from Tesla for me is November.

I also have a preorder for a Rivian R1S, with expected delivery date of August but I don’t trust them at all.

I’ve done long car trips in my Model 3, I never have “range anxiety” but it does take some pre planning and a little patience. It’s not as simple as pulling off the thruway at the next exit.

We installed a 240V charger in our garage. I need to charge once a week. As far as I can tell, the impact to my electric bill is about the same as running my dryer. Part of that is because our electric company charged less for “off peak” hours, so the price per watt is very low. I just schedule an overnight charge during off peak times.
I'll buy an EV  
fivehead : 6/20/2022 11:55 am : link
when I can get one that allows me to drive from NY to Miami in 24 hours. Must also come without a kill switch.
Cost of electricity is easy to calculate  
HopePhil and Optimistic : 6/20/2022 12:11 pm : link
Look at your electric bill to see what you pay per kilowatt and multiply by the KW size of your battery.

Here in the Pacific Northwest we pay 10 cents per KW and my Model 3 has a 72 KW battery, so to charge from empty to full is $7.20 for approximately 300 miles.

An ICE car that gets 25 mpg would need 12 gallons to go the same distance. You do the math.
Don't Understand why it's EV or ICE...  
mvftw : 6/20/2022 12:21 pm : link
I think Hybrid is the best way to...If the Jerkoffs in Washington would promote Hybrid's they can get 50-100 mpg. But they promote EV's only..why...Before you answer...unless you own your home what do you do? Renters, Condo's, Apartment buildings...
RE: Electric?  
Stan in LA : 6/20/2022 12:28 pm : link
In comment 15736088 redwhiteandbigblue said:
Quote:
Nah. Besides being a"car guy" who still likes naturally aspirated engines over turbo, etc., If you do not own a house (I own a townhouse) or if you rent, charging is almost impossible. Go to a charging station 2x a week? Wait on a line and THEN wait 45 minutes or more to charge? No thanks. The argument about wasting time at a gas station each week is a joke for those of us living in condos, townhouses or apartments. I spend maybe 10 minutes a week at a gas station. I also drive 100 miles round trip for work each day.

As stated in other posts, it's a lifestyle decision as to whether or not it meets your needs. I am all for cleaning up the environment but for my current lifestyle, not for me.


^^^^^
THIS
Not ready for prime time  
Red Dog : 6/20/2022 12:31 pm : link
and probably never will be.

Lots of issues including vehicle cost, cost and difficulty of charger installation, almost complete lack of charging facilities in most non-urban areas, inconvenience waiting for charging, cost of possible replacement of batteries, disposal of used batteries and other components, and the fact that significant materials come from Communist China.

Then there's this - the existing North American electrical grids are simply not going to support widespread use of electric cars on top of our burgeoning other uses for electricity (computers, entertainment devices, cell phones, air conditioners, electric heating, etc.) despite what all the green energy fanatics continue to claim. Green energy is as big a lie as has ever been spread. Windmills are not productive a good deal of the time, large scale solar is a blot on the landscape, both kill birds, both cause problems for aviation, and both require TEN times the physical space to generate equivalent energy as coal, oil, biomass, nuclear, or hydro power - all of which have their own drawbacks, too. Geothermal and wave action are limited to a few select areas of the earth. And continued growth of the grids will only add more visual and electromagnetic pollution to the earth as sub-stations and 765kv high lines continue to proliferate. Green energy is a losing proposition any way you look at it.

Electric cars probably do have a small place as commuter vehicles in the relatively near term, but overall they are as much of a dead end now as they were at the dawn of the automotive age. There's a reason that gas vehicles drove them out of the marketplace.

Natural gas and eventually fuel cells make a hell of a lot more sense to me.
the grid comment is bogus  
UConn4523 : 6/20/2022 12:42 pm : link
are we all charging our cars at the same time? Are we not calculating grid improvements that will slowly be made over the next 15/20 years?

Plenty of reasons why electric isn't right for an individual but the grid argument isn't one of them.
Physical space  
cosmicj : 6/20/2022 12:42 pm : link
Do you know how much US land is taken by growing corn for ethanol? You could replace the corn with solar panels and generate enough electricity to power the entire country?

Your point about transmission is valid but there’s a lot of work being done to upgrade the grid currently.

I tend to agree with you about wind power and suspect well look back at those investments as a mistake. And don’t sleep on geothermal. Lots of interesting work being done in that area. To my mind, it’s a very interesting developing technology.
RE: I'll buy an EV  
moze1021 : 6/20/2022 12:46 pm : link
In comment 15736158 fivehead said:
Quote:
when I can get one that allows me to drive from NY to Miami in 24 hours. Must also come without a kill switch.


Dang... Poughkeepsie to Miami in a Long Range Model 3 will take you 25 hours.. just missed it...
It does not work for me at 300 miles  
Chip : 6/20/2022 1:15 pm : link
I live in the middle of NH that would not get me back from New york and back and Boston is close to 300 miles and Montreal a little over. Let alone steep hills with AWD necessary to get home in the winter. Do they have the power to get you six inches of snow or would I be stuck at home. I also drive to Florida in the winter does not work in that scenario either.
I’ve driven a Tesla for rideshare since 2018  
HopePhil and Optimistic : 6/20/2022 1:17 pm : link
And have had this conversation 20 times a night, six days a week for 14,000 rides!

Why I love my Model 3:

1. Gas Savings- I drive 250 miles per day. $5.00 for electricity to charge at home vs approximately $50.00 for gas (assume 10 gallons @ $5 per gallon) so $45 per day times 25 days per month equals $1125 per month. This exceeds the monthly car payment on a six year car loan!

2. Maintenance Savings - There is literally no maintenance schedule. Just keep an eye on the tires and get an alignment once in a while. There is no engine so no oil, spark plugs, filters, belts or hoses, starter, alternator, radiator, transmission, exhaust system etc. The car self diagnoses and let’s you know if anything needs to be addressed. The break pads wear much slower since you tap the break pedal much less frequently due to the regenerative breaking, ie the car slows down when you lift up on the accelerator (gas pedal). I’m at 90k miles and the pads are still fine. After 3.5 years I’ve spent nothing on maintenance other than tires, up until about a month ago when a seat belt sensor failed. Tesla sent a Mobil unit to my driveway the next day and replaced it in 10 minutes for $150.

3. It always starts. It never not starts. It’s like turning ona light switch. Also there are so few mechanical parts you never hear a noise and worry, uh oh that’s going to be $800!

4. It’s one of the safest cars ever tested.

5. They estimate the car will last a million miles, with a battery swap at the half million mile mark at a cost of an estimated $10k or so. Battery technology is constantly improving and it’s likely the costs will actually go down as improvements are made in the years to come.

6. Free software updates that make the car better via Wi-Fi while I’m charging at home. They want you to keep the car, not trade it in every three years. No built in product obsolescence.

7. It’s comfortable and fun to drive. Amazing acceleration, sporty feel, low center of gravity gives it a great feel for the road.

8. And it’s green.

Concerns and negatives:

1. Costs to install charger - the electrician charged $150 to add a 220V outlet in my garage and the level 2 charging unit was under $300. It’s the size of a shoe box, attaches easily to the wall, and adds 30 miles of range per hour. So I charge every night, like a cell phone.

2. If something goes wrong with the computer system they can address it remotely via Wi-Fi. Or they’ll send a remote serviceman to your location, home or on the road, at no charge!

3. Environmental concerns - “Battery disposal” and “ electricity from coal”. Honestly I couldn’t care less. The best scientific minds are working on the former, and here in the PNW we get most of our power from Hydro. Switching to clean energy is a greater societal issue with all the typical political arguments. As far as I’m concerned when I “Idle” in downtown Portland, my car is silent and not burning anything.

4. Range anxiety - not an issue for daily trips. It shows you how many miles you have left and I make sure to get home within a safe margin. For long trips it’s even easier, the on board computer knows where all the fast charging stations are. I give an audio command to navigate to the Meadowlands and within a few seconds it not only maps out all the stops along the way but it calculates, based on live traffic conditions and speed limits, what time I’ll reach each charging station, how much charge I’ll have left, and how long I’ll need to charge to safely get to the next charger, minimizing the time spent trickle charging to get from 80% to above.

5. Battery degradation - for a full time rideshare driver this is the biggest concern but shouldn’t be for a normal commuter who drives less than 200 miles per day. My long range Model 3 was listed at 310 miles when purchased, and 3 years later after 90k miles it charges to 285. I average about 25-30 miles each hour driving around looking for and giving rides so a loss of 30 miles of range could mean one less hour of revenue per shift. But I’m ok working slightly less over the next few years, 7 or 8 hours instead of 9 or 10. For owners that don’t add 5000 miles a month like I do, their batteries will degrade less quickly, and it won’t really impact their daily driving habits. For the occasional long trip, it may or may not add an extra charging pit stop for an extra 30 minutes, not a big deal imo.

The negatives are so minor relative to the positives. If you drive a lot, buy electric and you’ll save a ton of money! And have so many fewer headaches.

But that’s only if you can charge at home, otherwise put your $50k towards a downpayment on a house with a garage, and refinance a year from now when it appreciates enough to pull out the cash to buy your car for cash. Win-Win!



Won't consider it until prices are comparable  
VTChuck : 6/20/2022 1:24 pm : link
to gas models,

Retired and drive very few miles..... less than 3K last year

And up here in NH, our electric utility announced that prices will double in August.

Our latest contract for propane is up 30 cents /gal for the upcoming heating season.

They're gonna get you somehow
I do have to say, Tesla's service is on a whole different level  
Ben in Tampa : 6/20/2022 1:27 pm : link
I got a warning on my monitor that the car ran a self-diagnostic and determined a part would fail in the future. Not that it had failed, but preemptive. It prompted me to schedule a field service call, which I did.

Tesla mechanic rolled up to my house a few days later, completed the service in about 20 minutes, shook my hand and left. It didn't cost me anything, covered under warranty.

great stuff
No glorified golf cart for me  
Stan in LA : 6/20/2022 1:55 pm : link
Wake me when there's a charger on every corner that charges it in 5 minutes and I'll listen. Everything else simply managing the many negatives.
It costs about $11 to recharge your battery at home  
Vanzetti : 6/20/2022 1:55 pm : link
Electric rates are bound to increase so that number , which is pre pandemic, is bound to go up.

Just something to keep in mind because a lot of people think they will be saving all their gas money when in reality recharge is a moderately significant cost

as far as climate change goes, the main driver of global warming is population increase. EVs and other carbon reduction strategies are a palliative not a solution
even though calling it a Mustang  
santacruzom : 6/20/2022 2:12 pm : link
might be blasphemous, the Mustang Mach-E looks really compelling. I'm definitely going to check it out when my current car's lease is up.
RE: No glorified golf cart for me  
moze1021 : 6/20/2022 2:27 pm : link
In comment 15736303 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
Wake me when there's a charger on every corner that charges it in 5 minutes and I'll listen. Everything else simply managing the many negatives.


For you...sure... but you must be either:

1) Not in market for luxury car
or
2) Drive >200 miles per day
or
3) Can't install 240V outlet at your parking location


If those 3 things aren't true, and your choice is BMW v Lexus v Mercedes v Volvo v etc v Tesla, you drive less than 200 miles per day, and you can easily install an outlet...

Then a Tesla is not right for you

OR

You simply don't like the idea now or ever...and that's OK too.

I will be very happy  
section125 : 6/20/2022 2:36 pm : link
when they become a little more affordable. The wife has a Volvo and I believe Volvo is going all electric in the very near future - 2023 or 24..

Do have a serious question - what about heat? Heating elements are killers to electrical consumption. How do the MFGs handle that?
RE: I will be very happy  
section125 : 6/20/2022 2:41 pm : link
In comment 15736341 section125 said:
Quote:
when they become a little more affordable. The wife has a Volvo and I believe Volvo is going all electric in the very near future - 2023 or 24..

Do have a serious question - what about heat? Heating elements are killers to electrical consumption. How do the MFGs handle that?


Close 2030. 50% goal by 2025
RE: RE: No glorified golf cart for me  
UConn4523 : 6/20/2022 2:42 pm : link
In comment 15736333 moze1021 said:
Quote:
In comment 15736303 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


Wake me when there's a charger on every corner that charges it in 5 minutes and I'll listen. Everything else simply managing the many negatives.



For you...sure... but you must be either:

1) Not in market for luxury car
or
2) Drive >200 miles per day
or
3) Can't install 240V outlet at your parking location


If those 3 things aren't true, and your choice is BMW v Lexus v Mercedes v Volvo v etc v Tesla, you drive less than 200 miles per day, and you can easily install an outlet...

Then a Tesla is not right for you

OR

You simply don't like the idea now or ever...and that's OK too.


Its Stan. He either trolls or thinks his situation/views are above everyone elses. Why a charger needs to be on every street corner is beyond me.

If an ignore button existed on this site i'd never see his posts.
I love my Tesla Y  
Jerz44 : 6/20/2022 2:42 pm : link
I’m not a huge car guy in general but I’ve been so happy with it since day 1. The cost savings compared to gas is just a bonus.

It’s expensive obviously bht the pricing will come down and other cars will come to market.

RE: I will be very happy  
moze1021 : 6/20/2022 2:44 pm : link
In comment 15736341 section125 said:
Quote:
when they become a little more affordable. The wife has a Volvo and I believe Volvo is going all electric in the very near future - 2023 or 24..

Do have a serious question - what about heat? Heating elements are killers to electrical consumption. How do the MFGs handle that?


To me (an obvious avid fan), impact of cold weather are the biggest negatives of bEVs. Range is worse because of the electric heater (but even that not soo bad), regenerative braking doesnt work as well, and also because batteries don't perform as well in cold weather, period.

But besides that, the inside of the car heats up very quickly, no comfort issues..

RE: I purchased a compromise  
JohnF : 6/20/2022 3:00 pm : link
In comment 15736141 gidiefor said:
Quote:
plug in hybrid -- the Rav4 Prime -- and I love it -- it is sporty, peppy and fun to drive -- the battery gets 40-60 miles per charge depending on weather and conditions. When the battery is used up it switches to gas. I am getting the equivalent of 80 mile/gallon -- I just hit 8,000 miles after 6 months of use and I've been to the gas station exactly 8 times during that time. On longer trips I use the road to re-charge the battery.


This. Phevs are a practical solution, and combine electric for short trips as well as hybrid for longer ones. The Rav4 Prime has a estimated range of 600 plus miles. The Rav 4 has been a leader for years in the SUV market, so this is a no brainer if you can get one.

Going back to the EV discussion, I would not base a decision on the price of gas...but the availability of both gas and electric. California, with about a 13% market share of EV's, still has brownouts. To give you prespective, California has about 14-15 million cars total, and somewhat over 1 million EV's. There has to be MASSIVE investment in the infrastructure to support even going to 8 million EV's there.

And that's the issue everyone is skirting. Right now, Hydro and Geothermal percentages are static. We still have Natural Gas and Coal plants, but supplies for both depend more and more on foreign suppliers because of Federal policy. Instead of Nuclear Plants being built on a massive scale, they are being decomissioned. Someone is going to have to buy land and build Solar Panel Farms, and Windmills, plus figure out how to store power when the sun does not shine and the wind does not blow.

Nuclear Power (idealy Thorium) plants need to be put on a Manhattan project raceway for any of this to really work. We need to put this on fast track, and start building them as soon as the technology is there for Thorium.

That's the crux here. Either the Feds do it, and you pay more in taxes, or private enterprise invests in it...but they will expect a return to pay for the costs involved. Electricity is going to get VERY expensive as a result (when do you see Public Utility requests for more income shot down???)

In today's world with wars, supply side shortages, etc. you will also see gas shortages...we simply aren't fracking/drilling now. So you really want a car that has multiple sources to tide you over, in case one source of energy isn't available.

Oh, and someone is going to have to pay for installing all those charging stations (plus wiring,supplying electricity, maintenance of all those stations) as well. I have no idea how that would work in the Metro area.

If you really want to save money, I would suggest investing in solar panels on your house, to ease dependency on the grid.
It really depends on your "use case"  
ZogZerg : 6/20/2022 4:19 pm : link
But, if I was still commuting to work, I would definitely get one. I would have one electric and one gas vehicle.

However, Electric vehicles are a lot tougher to deal with if you don't have a house to come home to and no place to plug in at night. Still a long way to go there.
RE: How long will the battery last  
Kev in Cali : 6/20/2022 6:25 pm : link
In comment 15736127 Arkbach said:
Quote:
before it needs to be replaced? I've read replacement batteries run $3-5K depending on the vehicle and will require replacement <5 years. Not good if you purchase. Lessees don't care.


I'm not sure battery replacement cost will be that cheap. I initially read replacements were more in the $8-10k range, though the battery should last 7-8 years. I love the concept of EV and looked into it before I purchased my commuter.

As and avid grass man, new zero-turn battery replacements are around 3-4k.

What is the exact battery replacement cost and how long should the bat's hold up after 5 years use?

One will save EV though the initial cost to entry is high. If primary usage is drive to work and back, just drive a 40 mpg gas Civic and you'll be ahead of the game. It's a toss away car, so save $25-30k. Buy two!
RE: RE: My commute is  
TommyWiseau : 6/20/2022 6:46 pm : link
In comment 15736031 moze1021 said:
Quote:
In comment 15736026 TommyWiseau said:


Quote:


About 80 miles round trip plus $13ish a day in tolls. If I was to get an EV I would go for the long range versions. 220-250ish mile battery is too little for my needs (300+ is ideal). One thing to keep in mind is the mileage they advertise is in optimal conditions, warm weather etc. I am in the market for one but was considering waiting it out a bit until the competition gets tougher. Most, if not all, car companies are eesigning EVs. There will finally be some competition which hopefully will drive the price down or force Motor Vehicle Manufactures to improve on the tech.




Why do you think the range is not sufficient? You could driver back and forth to work 3 times in a day at that mileage.

As long as you have 240V charging at home, you can deplete 150 miles in a day and be fully recharged in 5 hours.


Where I live, they charge a lot more $$ for electricity during peak hours. I work the overnight shift which is significantly cheaper to charge at that time. I would be charging my car on the overnight (which is also when I have to work). Ideally I would like to get 4-5 trips in but 400 miles is not really out there yet.
RE: RE: RE: My commute is  
moze1021 : 6/20/2022 7:56 pm : link
In comment 15736540 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
In comment 15736031 moze1021 said:


Quote:


In comment 15736026 TommyWiseau said:


Quote:


About 80 miles round trip plus $13ish a day in tolls. If I was to get an EV I would go for the long range versions. 220-250ish mile battery is too little for my needs (300+ is ideal). One thing to keep in mind is the mileage they advertise is in optimal conditions, warm weather etc. I am in the market for one but was considering waiting it out a bit until the competition gets tougher. Most, if not all, car companies are eesigning EVs. There will finally be some competition which hopefully will drive the price down or force Motor Vehicle Manufactures to improve on the tech.




Why do you think the range is not sufficient? You could driver back and forth to work 3 times in a day at that mileage.

As long as you have 240V charging at home, you can deplete 150 miles in a day and be fully recharged in 5 hours.



Where I live, they charge a lot more $$ for electricity during peak hours. I work the overnight shift which is significantly cheaper to charge at that time. I would be charging my car on the overnight (which is also when I have to work). Ideally I would like to get 4-5 trips in but 400 miles is not really out there yet.


So you want to be able to drive a full week and only charge when you aren't working??

Issue there is that electric cars are not like gas where you use a bunch, then "fill up", then wait again. Best for battery is to keep it plugged in at home (if you're lucky enough to have at home) whenever you are there. Elon often says "a plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla"
RE: Cost of electricity is easy to calculate  
HomerJones45 : 6/20/2022 8:00 pm : link
In comment 15736175 HopePhil and Optimistic said:
Quote:
Look at your electric bill to see what you pay per kilowatt and multiply by the KW size of your battery.

Here in the Pacific Northwest we pay 10 cents per KW and my Model 3 has a 72 KW battery, so to charge from empty to full is $7.20 for approximately 300 miles.

An ICE car that gets 25 mpg would need 12 gallons to go the same distance. You do the math.
Yes, by all means, do the math. You paid for a new car that in seven or eight years when it needs a battery change will be next to worthless while the guy who bought the ICE at the dealership across the street will be going double or triple that.

If you want an electric car, wait about 5 years or so when the batteries are dying, and the owners are looking to dump them. Assuming you have the scratch for a new battery and the Chinese will sell them to us or you can live with the shortened range of the dying battery, you will be able to pick up that EV for practically nothing.

RE: RE: RE: RE: My commute is  
TommyWiseau : 6/20/2022 8:06 pm : link
In comment 15736611 moze1021 said:
Quote:
In comment 15736540 TommyWiseau said:


Quote:


In comment 15736031 moze1021 said:


Quote:


In comment 15736026 TommyWiseau said:


Quote:


About 80 miles round trip plus $13ish a day in tolls. If I was to get an EV I would go for the long range versions. 220-250ish mile battery is too little for my needs (300+ is ideal). One thing to keep in mind is the mileage they advertise is in optimal conditions, warm weather etc. I am in the market for one but was considering waiting it out a bit until the competition gets tougher. Most, if not all, car companies are eesigning EVs. There will finally be some competition which hopefully will drive the price down or force Motor Vehicle Manufactures to improve on the tech.




Why do you think the range is not sufficient? You could driver back and forth to work 3 times in a day at that mileage.

As long as you have 240V charging at home, you can deplete 150 miles in a day and be fully recharged in 5 hours.



Where I live, they charge a lot more $$ for electricity during peak hours. I work the overnight shift which is significantly cheaper to charge at that time. I would be charging my car on the overnight (which is also when I have to work). Ideally I would like to get 4-5 trips in but 400 miles is not really out there yet.



So you want to be able to drive a full week and only charge when you aren't working??

Issue there is that electric cars are not like gas where you use a bunch, then "fill up", then wait again. Best for battery is to keep it plugged in at home (if you're lucky enough to have at home) whenever you are there. Elon often says "a plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla"


I can’t charge while working. I wanted to charge it overnight (the cheapest time). I work 5 days a week. I guess I could use my ICE car on the 3rd or 4th Day so it charges back up while I go to work with my ICE vehicle. Like I said, where I am at it is around 4x more expensive to charge during the day then it is at night.
Time will tell..  
moze1021 : 6/20/2022 8:10 pm : link
Model 3 battery designed for 300-500K miles...which means they will last just as long or longer than an engine... Just like one car could have an engine blow at 160K, I'm sure some batteries will not last as long as designed..

Go search for 2012 era Model S used, they are out there...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: My commute is  
moze1021 : 6/20/2022 8:12 pm : link
In comment 15736619 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
In comment 15736611 moze1021 said:


Quote:


In comment 15736540 TommyWiseau said:


Quote:


In comment 15736031 moze1021 said:


Quote:


In comment 15736026 TommyWiseau said:


Quote:


About 80 miles round trip plus $13ish a day in tolls. If I was to get an EV I would go for the long range versions. 220-250ish mile battery is too little for my needs (300+ is ideal). One thing to keep in mind is the mileage they advertise is in optimal conditions, warm weather etc. I am in the market for one but was considering waiting it out a bit until the competition gets tougher. Most, if not all, car companies are eesigning EVs. There will finally be some competition which hopefully will drive the price down or force Motor Vehicle Manufactures to improve on the tech.




Why do you think the range is not sufficient? You could driver back and forth to work 3 times in a day at that mileage.

As long as you have 240V charging at home, you can deplete 150 miles in a day and be fully recharged in 5 hours.



Where I live, they charge a lot more $$ for electricity during peak hours. I work the overnight shift which is significantly cheaper to charge at that time. I would be charging my car on the overnight (which is also when I have to work). Ideally I would like to get 4-5 trips in but 400 miles is not really out there yet.



So you want to be able to drive a full week and only charge when you aren't working??

Issue there is that electric cars are not like gas where you use a bunch, then "fill up", then wait again. Best for battery is to keep it plugged in at home (if you're lucky enough to have at home) whenever you are there. Elon often says "a plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla"



I can’t charge while working. I wanted to charge it overnight (the cheapest time). I work 5 days a week. I guess I could use my ICE car on the 3rd or 4th Day so it charges back up while I go to work with my ICE vehicle. Like I said, where I am at it is around 4x more expensive to charge during the day then it is at night.


Yeah I understood what you meant...was just saying that such a plan isn't really great for the electric car and the electricity rate difference is probably less than the difference between gas and high cost electric
one thing nobody talks about is the amount of radiation  
MartyNJ1969 : 6/20/2022 10:45 pm : link
an EV gives off. The body is bombarded by radiation from all angles in an EV. Chuck McGill would never buy one.
RE: one thing nobody talks about is the amount of radiation  
BleedBlue : 6/21/2022 12:28 am : link
In comment 15736751 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
an EV gives off. The body is bombarded by radiation from all angles in an EV. Chuck McGill would never buy one.



Its been widely agreed that this is false. The levels are below the levels that are considered dangerous
RE: even though calling it a Mustang  
Gman11 : 6/21/2022 9:07 am : link
In comment 15736317 santacruzom said:
Quote:
might be blasphemous, the Mustang Mach-E looks really compelling. I'm definitely going to check it out when my current car's lease is up.


I have the Mach E. It's a wonderful car. 350hp is more than most ICE Mustangs and 4.7 second 0-60 time is better than most too.
Lost in this whole thread...  
moze1021 : 6/21/2022 9:59 am : link
is how much FUN EVs are to drive!

Instant reaction..throw your head and guts to back of seat type acceleration.. regenerative braking..



Then expanding on the experience: getting over the air software updates routinely to give new features/experience... it's just so much fun!

Example: you think to yourself: hey wouldn't it be cool if my blindspot cameras came up on the screen when I put my turn signal on to change lanes?.. boom, Tesla does a software update and now your car does that when it was never a thought when you bought your car.
RE: one thing nobody talks about is the amount of radiation  
Tom in DC : 6/21/2022 10:00 am : link
Nobody talks about it because its absurd and false.

In comment 15736751 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
an EV gives off. The body is bombarded by radiation from all angles in an EV. Chuck McGill would never buy one.
RE: RE: even though calling it a Mustang  
NINEster : 6/21/2022 2:48 pm : link
In comment 15736850 Gman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 15736317 santacruzom said:


Quote:


might be blasphemous, the Mustang Mach-E looks really compelling. I'm definitely going to check it out when my current car's lease is up.



I have the Mach E. It's a wonderful car. 350hp is more than most ICE Mustangs and 4.7 second 0-60 time is better than most too.


Plus one could get a dual motor AWD Mach-E with 480 hp and 600 lb-ft of torque, giving you 0-60 in 3.5.

Teslas are very nice, but I'd probably want a Mach E or another EV to be different.
RE: Lost in this whole thread...  
NINEster : 6/21/2022 2:56 pm : link
In comment 15736907 moze1021 said:
Quote:
is how much FUN EVs are to drive!

Instant reaction..throw your head and guts to back of seat type acceleration.. regenerative braking..



EVs are fun within the context they are EVs, but for me it's very hard for them to replace the joy of driving ICE vehicles.

In an ideal world, one would have a luxury EV for daily driving purposes. When driving has to be ultra practical and boring, IMO there's nothing better because from a truly objective perspective there are no "weaknesses" to the car. Smooth, handle very well, fast. The regenerative braking could be seen slightly as a negative for lack of smoothness, but having put on 100 miles in various Teslas, it's not so bad.

But lack of sound and transmission is a major downside for an enthusiast car. 0-60 under 4 seconds is a lot of fun in an ICE car, but for an EV is just a temporary thrill. An enthusiast would never want to see ICE cars go extinct. If you don't agree then you're not a hardcore car enthusiast.

Performance hybrids work very well, complementing their strengths superbly.

A lot of good info here  
JoeyBigBlue : 6/21/2022 6:52 pm : link
A big Thank you especially to moze1021 for the input on his expertise with EVs. I think we’re gonna wait on the EVs. The inflated prices along with the dealer markups, really aren’t worth it. I went to see a Kia EV6 midlevel Wind trim. The MSRP was 52800, and when I got to the dealer it had a $6k “Regional Market Adjustment.” No thank you.

From my research a ton of new EVs will come out in the next 2 years. That should drop the price down as their will be more quantity. I could wait another year. In the meantime I’ll probably buy a used fuel efficient car to drive, instead of the 6 cylinder SUV I currently have.
Good call and good luck!  
moze1021 : 6/21/2022 8:10 pm : link
The competition is only gonna help..and now you have more time to research and try things out!
Just an EV FYI...  
bw in dc : 6/21/2022 8:29 pm : link
I saw a LUCID in my neighborhood about an hour ago. What a sleek, beautiful car that is. I'm very curious to see how this super high-end EV does when there is more availability.
RE: Just an EV FYI...  
Stan in LA : 6/22/2022 2:57 pm : link
In comment 15737612 bw in dc said:
Quote:
I saw a LUCID in my neighborhood about an hour ago. What a sleek, beautiful car that is. I'm very curious to see how this super high-end EV does when there is more availability.

Yeah, they're amazing and blow Tesla's out of the water. Pricey sure, but with a 500+ mile range, Id take it.
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